Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms because
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? No
such problem in other rooms.

On Mar 12, 6:35�am, " Frank" wrote:
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms because
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? No
such problem in other rooms.

bad socket thats overheating and thats a safety fire risk issue.

or the fixture could be over lamped, with too may watts in it.

" Frank" wrote in message
. ..
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Excessive vibration, loose contacts in socket, tenant plays basketball in
house and keeps hitting the light fixture. Change the light fixture or try
a rough service bulb.

On Mar 12, 6:47�am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
" Frank" wrote in message

. ..

Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.

Excessive vibration, loose contacts in socket, tenant plays basketball in
house and keeps hitting the light fixture. �Change the light fixture or try
a rough service bulb.

or a 130 volt bulb, or compact fluroscent.

my guess bad over heating socket

On Mar 12, 8:15�am, "Blattus Slafaly � � 0/00 "
wrote:
� Frank wrote:
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms because
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? No
such problem in other rooms.

They should turn it off once in a while.

--
Blattus Slafaly �? 3 � � �7/8

actually off and on a lot is worse than just leaving lamp on, its a
thermal stress issue

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:35:20 -0700, " Frank"
wrote:

Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms because
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? No
such problem in other rooms.


Inspect the socket and check the voltage.

Get an electrician to take a look at it. Possibly a short. I;d also
recommend to start using CFCs
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/phpBB2/index.php

On Mar 12, 11:42*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:35:20 -0700, " * * * * *Frank"

wrote:
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms because
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? No
such problem in other rooms.

Inspect the socket and check the voltage.

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:22:23 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Get an electrician to take a look at it. Possibly a short. I;d also
recommend to start using CFCs
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/phpBB2/index.php

On Mar 12, 11:42Â*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:35:20 -0700, " Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Frank"

wrote:
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms because
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? No
such problem in other rooms.

Inspect the socket and check the voltage.


Its a lot easier and cheaper just to replace the socket. See if that
helps.

wrote:
Get an electrician to take a look at it. Possibly a short

I'd like to hear your explanation of how "a short" acts to burn out a
light bulb.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.




.. I;d also
recommend to start using CFCs
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/phpBB2/index.php

On Mar 12, 11:42 am, Phisherman wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:35:20 -0700, " Frank"

wrote:

Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms because
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? No
such problem in other rooms.

Inspect the socket and check the voltage.

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:10:25 -0500, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
wrote:
Get an electrician to take a look at it. Possibly a short

I'd like to hear your explanation of how "a short" acts to burn out a
light bulb.

There's stray wire running from the 440 up at the telephone pole down to his
light socket. Funny how nobody has noticed it before.


Seriously, the primary causes of short incadescent light bulb lifespan are
1) too much voltage (an AC voltmeter can check this)
2) too much heat
3) too much vibration (unfrosted bulbs can handle heat and
vibration better as they run cooler)
4) poor quality light bulbs.

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Missed an important one

A floating neutral. This is a serious safety issue. It can cause a
fire. It should have been listed first.

A floating neutral causes enough other -- and more dramatic and widespread --
symptoms that, in the absence of those other symptoms, it does not merit
consideration when the only observed symptom is short bulb life in a *single*
socket.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

" Frank" wrote in message
. ..
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing, which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

In ,
wrote:

On Mar 12, 8:15=EF=BF=BDam, "Blattus Slafaly =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 0/00 "
wrote:
=EF=BF=BD Frank wrote:
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms beca=
use
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? =
No
such problem in other rooms.

They should turn it off once in a while.

--
Blattus Slafaly =EF=BF=BD? 3 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD7/8

actually off and on a lot is worse than just leaving lamp on, its a
thermal stress issue

Actually, in most incandescent lamps, cold starts don't do much actual
damage with the jarring they do to the filament. What mainly happens is
that an aging filament develops a thin hot spot, which experiences a
temperature overshoot during a cold start.

Cold starts will kill aging filaments. However, avoiding cold starts
does little to make filaments last longer - by the time they become unable
to survive a cold start, the hot/thin spot is in a state that is
reinforcing its thinness at a rate that is accelerating worse than
exponentially - and the filament's hours are numbered no matter what.

Those thermistor-based soft-starting devices don't do much protection
via soft-starting. I did an experiment and found that one of these, fully
warmed up, dimmed the lightbulb enough to extend its life by about 50%.

Keep in mind the life expectancy of traffic signal incandescents in
traffic signal use.

- Don Klipstein )

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:52:07 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:

" Frank" wrote in message
...
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing, which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

bull****. You can't push the contact so far in that it loses contact with an
inserted light bulb. There's the bottom of the socket behind the contact. All
an overtightened light bulb will do is squeeze the contact between the light
bulb and the bottom of the socket.

Your suggestion is likely to product the arcing you are trying to eliminate by
separating the contact from the bottom of the socket and producing a loose
contact.

On Mar 12, 9:36�pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In ,





wrote:
On Mar 12, 8:15=EF=BF=BDam, "Blattus Slafaly =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 0/00 "
wrote:
=EF=BF=BD Frank wrote:
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms beca=
use
it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any ideas? =
No
such problem in other rooms.

They should turn it off once in a while.

--
Blattus Slafaly =EF=BF=BD? 3 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD7/8

actually off and on a lot is worse than just leaving lamp on, its a
thermal stress issue

� Actually, in most incandescent lamps, cold starts don't do much actual
damage with the jarring they do to the filament. �What mainly happens is
that an aging filament develops a thin hot spot, which experiences a
temperature overshoot during a cold start.

� Cold starts will kill aging filaments. �However, avoiding cold starts
does little to make filaments last longer - by the time they become unable
to survive a cold start, the hot/thin spot is in a state that is
reinforcing its thinness at a rate that is accelerating worse than
exponentially - and the filament's hours are numbered no matter what.

� Those thermistor-based soft-starting devices don't do much protection
via soft-starting. �I did an experiment and found that one of these, fully
warmed up, dimmed the lightbulb enough to extend its life by about 50%.

� Keep in mind the life expectancy of traffic signal incandescents in
traffic signal use.

�- Don Klipstein )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

long life, if thats what you want put the incandescent on a dimmer,
dimmers even run at full voltage lose a few and lamp life skyrockets.
the inside of the bulb will actually get black dimming the still
burning lamp to the point you will want to replace it/

years ago i had a dimmer on a 300 watt light bulb for my elderly
grandma.

300 watt so she could see good to read, low wattage for watching tv.
about every 6 months i would replace the lamp its insides black.

that was OK a 300 watt without dimmer would last at most 2 months,
high wattage equals short life.

today compact fluroscents are a far better choice

Perhaps that particular light fixture is turned on and off a lot. If
that's the case, the only light bulb that will alst is a LED type
(which aren't widely available yet and don't come in high enough
wattages to be useful yet).

wrote:
Perhaps that particular light fixture is turned on and off a lot. If
that's the case, the only light bulb that will alst is a LED type
(which aren't widely available yet and don't come in high enough
wattages to be useful yet).

A 130V or heavy-duty design bulb will almost certainly solve the problem
unless there is an actual problem in the fixture or circuit itself
(which we can't tell from here).

--

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:36:47 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:


[snip]


Keep in mind the life expectancy of traffic signal incandescents in
traffic signal use.

- Don Klipstein )

I notice that all (or almost al) traffic signals around here use LED
arrays.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

In , AZ Nomad
wrote in part:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:52:07 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:

Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing, which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

bull****. You can't push the contact so far in that it loses contact with an
inserted light bulb. There's the bottom of the socket behind the contact. All
an overtightened light bulb will do is squeeze the contact between the light
bulb and the bottom of the socket.

I have caused this problem myself many years ago. Not all sockets are
made so that the tab is stopped from moving further by socket structure
before it is out of reach of some or many lightbulbs.

There is another thing to chek for: The tab may be corroded. Arcing
may corrode the tip contact of lightbulbs. Sometimes the corrosion is
easy enough to scrub off with fine sandpaper (with the breaker off -
verify that flipping the breaker on and off turns that socket on and off).

- Don Klipstein )

In article , dpb wrote:
wrote:
Perhaps that particular light fixture is turned on and off a lot. If
that's the case, the only light bulb that will alst is a LED type
(which aren't widely available yet and don't come in high enough
wattages to be useful yet).

A 130V or heavy-duty design bulb will almost certainly solve the problem
unless there is an actual problem in the fixture or circuit itself
(which we can't tell from here).

130V, superlonglife and inductrial/shock/vibration duty incandescents
also produce less light for the amount of electricity consumed than
"standard" incandescents, generally 15-25% less. Use CFLs where you can.

- Don Klipstein )

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:52:07 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
wrote:

" Frank" wrote in message
m...
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing,
which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

bull****. You can't push the contact so far in that it loses contact with
an
inserted light bulb. There's the bottom of the socket behind the contact.
All
an overtightened light bulb will do is squeeze the contact between the
light
bulb and the bottom of the socket.

Your suggestion is likely to product the arcing you are trying to
eliminate by
separating the contact from the bottom of the socket and producing a loose
contact.


Hey Mr. Bull****, check
http://www.askthebuilder.com/EM0017_..._Quickly.shtml

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:
....

A 130V or heavy-duty design bulb will almost certainly solve the problem
unless there is an actual problem in the fixture or circuit itself
(which we can't tell from here).

130V, superlonglife and inductrial/shock/vibration duty incandescents
also produce less light for the amount of electricity consumed than
"standard" incandescents, generally 15-25% less. Use CFLs where you can.

They'll solve OP's problem though, which was the point of the posting.

I personally can't stand the fluorescent light where I want
incandescent, efficiency or no efficiency. That's me, though and I'll
be the first to admit to being an old fogey...

--

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:53:44 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , AZ Nomad wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:52:07 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
wrote:

" Frank" wrote in message
om...
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing, which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

bull****. You can't push the contact so far in that it loses contact with an
inserted light bulb. There's the bottom of the socket behind the contact. All
an overtightened light bulb will do is squeeze the contact between the light
bulb and the bottom of the socket.

Because it's never happened to you, it must be impossible, eh?

In forty years? Yes.

The technology is far older and unchanging because it works, is cheap,
and there's little reason to change it. You don't have a tab
hanging in mid air to contact the lightbulb.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:00:15 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:52:07 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
wrote:

" Frank" wrote in message
om...
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing,
which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

bull****. You can't push the contact so far in that it loses contact with
an
inserted light bulb. There's the bottom of the socket behind the contact.
All
an overtightened light bulb will do is squeeze the contact between the
light
bulb and the bottom of the socket.

Your suggestion is likely to product the arcing you are trying to
eliminate by
separating the contact from the bottom of the socket and producing a loose
contact.


Hey Mr. Bull****, check
http://www.askthebuilder.com/EM0017_..._Quickly.shtml


Why don't you take a reading comprehension course? The article states that
if you don't tighten the socket, the bulb can ark and the solder at
the base OF THE BULB can melt. It doesn't state that there is anything wrong
with tightening the bulb fully or that you should leave it a little loose.
It states quite the opposite.

"You will quickly notice that the bottom of most light bulbs has a small droplet
of solder in the center of the base. More importantly the size of this drop of
solder is not consistent from light bulb to light bulb. It is close in size, but
not always the same size or height.

If the brass tab at the base of the socket does not make firm contact with the
bottom of the light bulb, a small electrical arc can happen that starts to melt
the solder. Over a period of time, the solder can deform and the gap between the
solder and the brass tab gets larger."

The rest of the article repeats the idiotic advice of reaching in and
bending the tab. It is a non-sequitir. Pulling the tab away from the
bottom of the socket will result in a poorer connection.

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Missed an important one

A floating neutral. This is a serious safety issue. It can cause a
fire. It should have been listed first.

A floating neutral causes enough other -- and more dramatic and
widespread --
symptoms that, in the absence of those other symptoms, it does not merit
consideration when the only observed symptom is short bulb life in a
*single*
socket.

I disagree. If that floating neutral is pairing one light bulb say with
a refrigerator it it may not cause an apparent symptoms on the other line
but it can still be a danger and a cause.

Sure, that's a typical circuit: refrigerator, *one* light fixture, and nothing
else. Uh-huh.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , AZ Nomad wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:52:07 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
wrote:

" Frank" wrote in message
m...
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing, which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

bull****. You can't push the contact so far in that it loses contact with an
inserted light bulb. There's the bottom of the socket behind the contact. All
an overtightened light bulb will do is squeeze the contact between the light
bulb and the bottom of the socket.

Because it's never happened to you, it must be impossible, eh?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:53:44 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , AZ Nomad
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:52:07 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
wrote:

" Frank" wrote in message
news:_JydnXEsQ4xnIkranZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@comcast. com...
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


Another possibility:

The metal tab at the base of the socket could be pushed down from
over-tightening a previous bulb, such that there exists an air gap between
the tab and the base of the replacement bulb, causing current arcing, which
then causes premature bulb failure.

Turn the circuit breaker off to the socket, use needlenose plyers to reach
in and gently raise the metal tab to its original position.

Do not overtighten new light bulb.

bull****. You can't push the contact so far in that it loses contact with an
inserted light bulb. There's the bottom of the socket behind the contact.
All
an overtightened light bulb will do is squeeze the contact between the light
bulb and the bottom of the socket.

Because it's never happened to you, it must be impossible, eh?

In forty years? Yes.

Guess again, pal. It *does* happen, and just because you've never seen it,
does *not* mean that it can't happen.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , AZ Nomad wrote:

The rest of the article repeats the idiotic advice of reaching in and
bending the tab. It is a non-sequitir. Pulling the tab away from the
bottom of the socket will result in a poorer connection.

Maybe you oughta stick to topics on which you have some actual knowledge.
Bending the tab away from the bottom of the socket results in a *better*
connection, not worse.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
gy.net...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Missed an important one

A floating neutral. This is a serious safety issue. It can cause
a
fire. It should have been listed first.

A floating neutral causes enough other -- and more dramatic and
widespread --
symptoms that, in the absence of those other symptoms, it does not merit
consideration when the only observed symptom is short bulb life in a
*single*
socket.

I disagree. If that floating neutral is pairing one light bulb say
with
a refrigerator it it may not cause an apparent symptoms on the other line
but it can still be a danger and a cause.

Sure, that's a typical circuit: refrigerator, *one* light fixture, and
nothing
else. Uh-huh.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

While I have seen such a circuit more than once, especially with
freezers, where owners want to make sure the power is still on, I did not
indicate both the lamp and the frig on the same circuit, but rather paired
on opposite legs of two circuits sharing a neutral. My answer would also
apply if many other items were on that same circuit pair, but if the other
devices were not sensitive to voltage swings or were not high amp users.

Oh, yeah, that's even *more* common. Uh-huh. Keep reaching.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Missed an important one

A floating neutral. This is a serious safety issue. It can cause
a
fire. It should have been listed first.

A floating neutral causes enough other -- and more dramatic and
widespread --
symptoms that, in the absence of those other symptoms, it does not merit
consideration when the only observed symptom is short bulb life in a
*single*
socket.

I disagree. If that floating neutral is pairing one light bulb say
with
a refrigerator it it may not cause an apparent symptoms on the other line
but it can still be a danger and a cause.
..
Sure, that's a typical circuit: refrigerator, *one* light fixture, and
nothing
else. Uh-huh.

While I have seen such a circuit more than once, especially with
freezers, where owners want to make sure the power is still on, I did not
indicate both the lamp and the frig on the same circuit, but rather paired
on opposite legs of two circuits sharing a neutral. My answer would also
apply if many other items were on that same circuit pair, but if the other
devices were not sensitive to voltage swings or were not high amp users.

Oh, yeah, that's even *more* common. Uh-huh. Keep reaching.

I find Joseph's idea entirely reasonable. His original post was "say
with" - an illustration. There are lots of possibilities of 2 circuits
with loose common neutral. Like 2 general purpose circuits with a light
on one and a heater on the other. Doesn't have to be only a light on one
circuit, just that the light be all that is on, or as Joseph wrote, all
that is sensitive.

--
bud--

Don Klipstein wrote:

In article , dpb wrote:

wrote:

Perhaps that particular light fixture is turned on and off a lot. If
that's the case, the only light bulb that will alst is a LED type
(which aren't widely available yet and don't come in high enough
wattages to be useful yet).

A 130V or heavy-duty design bulb will almost certainly solve the problem
unless there is an actual problem in the fixture or circuit itself
(which we can't tell from here).


130V, superlonglife and inductrial/shock/vibration duty incandescents
also produce less light for the amount of electricity consumed than
"standard" incandescents, generally 15-25% less. Use CFLs where you can.

- Don Klipstein )


This thread got me to wondering what kind of light bulbs are used in
traffic signals (pre the LED ones, of course.)

Seems like there's certainly a lot of "ons" and offs" in those
applications, particularly when they are set to "blink mode".

Can you clue me in about that Don?

Come to think of it, when I was a kid there were advertising signs all
over the place which had huge numbers of incandescents constantly
blinking on and off.

Maybe that kind of cycling doesn't shorten the life of an incandescent
bulb as much as some people might think, huh?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Jeff Wisnia posted for all of us...

Don Klipstein wrote:

In article , dpb wrote:

wrote:

Perhaps that particular light fixture is turned on and off a lot. If
that's the case, the only light bulb that will alst is a LED type
(which aren't widely available yet and don't come in high enough
wattages to be useful yet).

A 130V or heavy-duty design bulb will almost certainly solve the problem
unless there is an actual problem in the fixture or circuit itself
(which we can't tell from here).


130V, superlonglife and inductrial/shock/vibration duty incandescents
also produce less light for the amount of electricity consumed than
"standard" incandescents, generally 15-25% less. Use CFLs where you can.

- Don Klipstein )


This thread got me to wondering what kind of light bulbs are used in
traffic signals (pre the LED ones, of course.)

Seems like there's certainly a lot of "ons" and offs" in those
applications, particularly when they are set to "blink mode".

Can you clue me in about that Don?

Come to think of it, when I was a kid there were advertising signs all
over the place which had huge numbers of incandescents constantly
blinking on and off.

Maybe that kind of cycling doesn't shorten the life of an incandescent
bulb as much as some people might think, huh?

Jeff


They are "Traffic Signal Bulbs" believe it or not. Also used in airway
obstruction lights such as towers, chimneys. Rated for 3000 hours iirc
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

On Mar 18, 7:27�pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:

wrote:

Perhaps that particular light fixture is turned on and off a lot. �If
that's the case, the only light bulb that will alst is a LED type
(which aren't widely available yet and don't come in high enough
wattages to be useful yet).

A 130V or heavy-duty design bulb will almost certainly solve the problem
unless there is an actual problem in the fixture or circuit itself
(which we can't tell from here).

� 130V, superlonglife and inductrial/shock/vibration duty incandescents
also produce less light for the amount of electricity consumed than
"standard" incandescents, generally 15-25% less. �Use CFLs where you can.

�- Don Klipstein )

This thread got me to wondering what kind of light bulbs are used in
traffic signals (pre the LED ones, of course.)

Seems like there's certainly a lot of "ons" and offs" in those
applications, particularly when they are set to "blink mode".

Can you clue me in about that Don?

Come to think of it, when I was a kid there were advertising signs all
over the place which had huge numbers of incandescents constantly
blinking on and off.

Maybe that kind of cycling doesn't shorten the life of an incandescent
bulb as much as some people might think, huh?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

older traffic light bulbs were special heavy duty lamps run at a
slightly lower voltage. have seen the bulbs, they were big on
mechanical strength.

traffic lights have tough lives, vibration from passing trucks,
impacts, extreme weather, etc etc.

a fellow who fixed them said voltage didnt just snap off and on, it
ramped up and was never completely off, which backed up a lamp
assembly i saw one nite, it had opened somehow and the off color
positions were glowing very slightly. would f never been seen with the
colored glass in place

note the newer LED lamps, when they fail area go out, rather than the
entire lamp


not long ago I saw a hanging traffic lamp broken from its mount,
spinning in the wind. big storm going on

I called 911 immediately if that fell thru a windshield someone could
get hurt bad. a hour or two later i passed the intersection on the way
home the lamp assembly was gone.

the tech must of hated me, he had to do that in a severe storm

On Mar 15, 3:24 am, bud-- wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
igy.net...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Missed an important one

A floating neutral. This is a serious safety issue. It can cause
a
fire. It should have been listed first.

A floating neutral causes enough other -- and more dramatic and
widespread --
symptoms that, in the absence of those other symptoms, it does not merit
consideration when the only observed symptom is short bulb life in a
*single*
socket.

I disagree. If that floating neutral is pairing one light bulb say
with
a refrigerator it it may not cause an apparent symptoms on the other line
but it can still be a danger and a cause.
.
Sure, that's a typical circuit: refrigerator, *one* light fixture, and
nothing
else. Uh-huh.

While I have seen such a circuit more than once, especially with
freezers, where owners want to make sure the power is still on, I did not
indicate both the lamp and the frig on the same circuit, but rather paired
on opposite legs of two circuits sharing a neutral. My answer would also
apply if many other items were on that same circuit pair, but if the other
devices were not sensitive to voltage swings or were not high amp users.

Oh, yeah, that's even *more* common. Uh-huh. Keep reaching.

I find Joseph's idea entirely reasonable. His original post was "say
with" - an illustration. There are lots of possibilities of 2 circuits
with loose common neutral. Like 2 general purpose circuits with a light
on one and a heater on the other. Doesn't have to be only a light on one
circuit, just that the light be all that is on, or as Joseph wrote, all
that is sensitive.

--
bud--

If the unbalanced load of one circuit is going thru the lamp and
burning it out, where is it going when the light is off?

You should have lights and appliances. When the appliances are off
where is it going?

On Mar 18, 7:34 pm, Terry wrote:
On Mar 15, 3:24 am, bud-- wrote:



Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
igy.net...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Missed an important one

A floating neutral. This is a serious safety issue. It can cause
a
fire. It should have been listed first.

A floating neutral causes enough other -- and more dramatic and
widespread --
symptoms that, in the absence of those other symptoms, it does not merit
consideration when the only observed symptom is short bulb life in a
*single*
socket.

I disagree. If that floating neutral is pairing one light bulb say
with
a refrigerator it it may not cause an apparent symptoms on the other line
but it can still be a danger and a cause.
.
Sure, that's a typical circuit: refrigerator, *one* light fixture, and
nothing
else. Uh-huh.

While I have seen such a circuit more than once, especially with
freezers, where owners want to make sure the power is still on, I did not
indicate both the lamp and the frig on the same circuit, but rather paired
on opposite legs of two circuits sharing a neutral. My answer would also
apply if many other items were on that same circuit pair, but if the other
devices were not sensitive to voltage swings or were not high amp users.

Oh, yeah, that's even *more* common. Uh-huh. Keep reaching.

I find Joseph's idea entirely reasonable. His original post was "say
with" - an illustration. There are lots of possibilities of 2 circuits
with loose common neutral. Like 2 general purpose circuits with a light
on one and a heater on the other. Doesn't have to be only a light on one
circuit, just that the light be all that is on, or as Joseph wrote, all
that is sensitive.

--
bud--

If the unbalanced load of one circuit is going thru the lamp and
burning it out, where is it going when the light is off?

You should have lights and appliances. When the appliances are off
where is it going?

BTW a good volt meter would tell you with one reading if this was
happening

In article , Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

130V, superlonglife and inductrial/shock/vibration duty incandescents
also produce less light for the amount of electricity consumed than
"standard" incandescents, generally 15-25% less. Use CFLs where you can.

This thread got me to wondering what kind of light bulbs are used in
traffic signals (pre the LED ones, of course.)

Seems like there's certainly a lot of "ons" and offs" in those
applications, particularly when they are set to "blink mode".

Can you clue me in about that Don?

Come to think of it, when I was a kid there were advertising signs all
over the place which had huge numbers of incandescents constantly
blinking on and off.

Maybe that kind of cycling doesn't shorten the life of an incandescent
bulb as much as some people might think, huh?

Traffic lights with incandescents use "traffic signal lamps". Most of
those are rated for 8,000 hours and there are 130V versions.

I have heard a bit about blinking signs and "chaser light" signs having
a "keep warm" current to reduce thermal shock, or that the filaments don't
cool enough to run into thermal shock problems. I have my doubts about
keep-filament-warm means since cold starts are generally not as damaging
as people think, and any such current would make "off" lamps glow in signs
that have most the lamps burned out - and I don't see that happening.
Traffic signals don't have any "low current" to keep the filament warm -
or else drop-in LED replacements would glow somewhat when they are "off".

- Don Klipstein )

In ,
wrote:

On Mar 18, 7:27=EF=BF=BDpm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

This thread got me to wondering what kind of light bulbs are used in
traffic signals (pre the LED ones, of course.)

Seems like there's certainly a lot of "ons" and offs" in those
applications, particularly when they are set to "blink mode".

Can you clue me in about that Don?

Come to think of it, when I was a kid there were advertising signs all
over the place which had huge numbers of incandescents constantly
blinking on and off.

Maybe that kind of cycling doesn't shorten the life of an incandescent
bulb as much as some people might think, huh?

older traffic light bulbs were special heavy duty lamps run at a
slightly lower voltage. have seen the bulbs, they were big on
mechanical strength.

traffic lights have tough lives, vibration from passing trucks,
impacts, extreme weather, etc etc.

a fellow who fixed them said voltage didnt just snap off and on, it
ramped up and was never completely off, which backed up a lamp
assembly i saw one nite, it had opened somehow and the off color
positions were glowing very slightly. would f never been seen with the
colored glass in place

I have seen inside the controller boxes for traffic signals in
Philadelphia, back when they used incandescents for all colors. They use
mechanical switching - voltage does not ramp up.

- Don Klipstein )

wrote:

On Mar 18, 7:27�pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Don Klipstein wrote:

In article , dpb wrote:

wrote:

Perhaps that particular light fixture is turned on and off a lot. �If
that's the case, the only light bulb that will alst is a LED type
(which aren't widely available yet and don't come in high enough
wattages to be useful yet).

A 130V or heavy-duty design bulb will almost certainly solve the problem
unless there is an actual problem in the fixture or circuit itself
(which we can't tell from here).

� 130V, superlonglife and inductrial/shock/vibration duty incandescents
also produce less light for the amount of electricity consumed than
"standard" incandescents, generally 15-25% less. �Use CFLs where you can.

�- Don Klipstein )

This thread got me to wondering what kind of light bulbs are used in
traffic signals (pre the LED ones, of course.)

Seems like there's certainly a lot of "ons" and offs" in those
applications, particularly when they are set to "blink mode".

Can you clue me in about that Don?

Come to think of it, when I was a kid there were advertising signs all
over the place which had huge numbers of incandescents constantly
blinking on and off.

Maybe that kind of cycling doesn't shorten the life of an incandescent
bulb as much as some people might think, huh?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


older traffic light bulbs were special heavy duty lamps run at a
slightly lower voltage. have seen the bulbs, they were big on
mechanical strength.

traffic lights have tough lives, vibration from passing trucks,
impacts, extreme weather, etc etc.

a fellow who fixed them said voltage didnt just snap off and on, it
ramped up and was never completely off, which backed up a lamp
assembly i saw one nite, it had opened somehow and the off color
positions were glowing very slightly. would f never been seen with the
colored glass in place


I doubt that they could "ramp" the current very easily back in the
pre-solid state electronics days. But maybe they just used resistors
across the switch contacts on the one you saw? That would keep the
filament warmer during the "off" periods.

And, the electricity "wasted" that way was MUCH cheaper in those good
'ol days.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.


note the newer LED lamps, when they fail area go out, rather than the
entire lamp


not long ago I saw a hanging traffic lamp broken from its mount,
spinning in the wind. big storm going on

I called 911 immediately if that fell thru a windshield someone could
get hurt bad. a hour or two later i passed the intersection on the way
home the lamp assembly was gone.

the tech must of hated me, he had to do that in a severe storm

" Frank" wrote in message
. ..
Tenant said they have to replace the light bulb in one of the rooms
because it keeps on burning out. Its incandescent on a 120V circuit, any
ideas? No such problem in other rooms.


I'm the OP and found the problem the other day, turns out the bulbs were not
burned out after all. The screw in socket was very tight so the bulb was not
able to seat completely down to make electrical contact - properly do to
rust from the salty air. The property is located close to the Pacific Ocean.
A little Vaseline on the thread and pulling the hot center tap out a little
bit had solved the problem. Regarding the salty air, I also needed to
replace the exterior door bell button once every three or so years as the
contact fail to conduct due to corrosion.

"Jimmie D" wrote in
:


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:36:47 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:


[snip]


Keep in mind the life expectancy of traffic signal incandescents in
traffic signal use.

- Don Klipstein )

I notice that all (or almost al) traffic signals around here use LED
arrays.

Same here, and most of them have a lot of burned out and flickering
LEDs. I thought they would last longer han this.

Jimmie




MythBusters did a short segment regarding light bulbs.


Lights On or Off

Myth: You save on energy bills by leaving lights on. Some people believe
that the energy to turn on lights exceeds savings of turning lights off.

They talked to Mark Reisfelt, manager of the Independent Electric Supply
where they purchased their light bulbs. He felt that it was best to turn
the lights off.

To test the myth, they needed to measure energy usage during startup,
maintenance (steady state), and shutdown.

For steady state energy consumption, they turned on several different
types of bulbs for 60 minutes and measured their consumption using a
Kill A Watt: * Incandescent 90 Wh * Compact Fluorescent (CFL): 10 Wh *
Halogen: 70 Wh * Metal halide 60 Wh * LED: 1 Wh * Fluorescent: 10 Wh

For startup energy consumption, Grant hooked up an inductive current
loop to a computer and measured the amount of energy used when the
turned on the bulbs. With an inductive current loop, you run a wire
through the center, which induces a current in the loop. This current is
then measured by a digital sampling oscilloscope.

Based on the amount of energy consumed turning on the bulb, they were
able calculated how long the bulb would have to be turned off in order
to make it worth the energy savings, i.e. "It's best to turn off the
bulb if you are leaving the room for":

* Incandescent: 0.36 seconds
* CFL: 0.015 seconds
* Halogen: .51 seconds
* LED: 1.28 seconds
* Fluorescent: 23.3 seconds

In other words, its almost always best to turn the bulb off. Even the 23
seconds for the fluorescent lights isn't very long, and the rest of the
times are pretty much blinks of an eye. Bulb Longevity

They tested one final element of this myth: frequently turning lights on
and off decreases their life span, thus leading to greater costs. Grant
setup a timer and relay to turn the bulbs on and off repeatedly every 2
minutes. After six weeks, only the LED bulb was still working. Based on
this test, they extrapolated that it would take five years of ordinary
usage to cause the bulbs to burn out.

* busted *
Side-note: 105-year bulb

Grant and Kari visited the Livermore/Pleasanton Fire Department to view
their light bulb that has been burning for 105 years. It has a carbon
filament that is much thicker than modern bulbs and also burns much
cooler/darker. You can check on the light using the bulb's webcam.