We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

In article ,
LittleF wrote:

We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

Can't think of any reason to sign it. I haven't and won't.

If he has good references, and you like the work he's done for others, I
think you give him your trust. If you try to micro manage, and pin him down
to strict numbers, you'll wind up with an adversarial relationship, and the
job will go poorly. If he is in fact a cheat, it won't matter what's written
on a contract.


"LittleF" wrote in message
...
We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

On Aug 13, 3:28 pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

LittleF wrote:
We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

Can't think of any reason to sign it. I haven't and won't.

Sounds too complicated, why is he subcontracting at all if you are
paying for T&M? I got a union guy to do my bath for $30/hour (from
scratch in basement where a plmg/elec rough in existed, no demo). He
charged me for 120 hours (in 3 weeks he was done), I bought all
materials as we went. No contract, just good references and he knew
what I wanted done. Bathroom was 18 x 7 feet, whirlpool, shower,
sink, toilet, ej pump, tiled 6 feet up the walls, drop ceiling, etc.
I did painting, hung and trimmed the doors, and hung lights, he did
all the rest. He brought a helper the day he had to set the tub and I
paid $60/hour that day. It comes down to trusing the guys
reliability, I question needing 3 guys on site AND subbing the plmg/
elec for such a small kitchen.

"LittleF" wrote in message
...
We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

Personally I wouldn't use a T&M agreement. He is supposed to be the expert;
he ought to be able to determine how much it will cost him.
Naturally he is entitled to do business anyway he wants and you shouldn't
argue about it, but should find someone else.

Possible additional 220 line? He doesn't know if he needs a circuit or
not?! Lose the flake now.

There is always sucker around the corner
and you are it

"LittleF" wrote in message
...
We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

On Aug 13, 2:33 pm, "Tony" wrote:
There is always sucker around the corner
and you are it

"LittleF" wrote in message

...



We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If he estimates 6000 have him do it for 6000 or it will probably cost
you 9000. He is a pro , he knows what it will cost. You can probably
get it done for 4000.

LittleF wrote:
We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

First, a real contractor isn't going to install customer supplied
materials. There's way too many pitfalls. From faulty material, to wrong
material, and everything in between. Who bites the bullet?

Second, exactly at what cost are the "subs" going to charge?

Third, $115 an hour for skilled labor for 3 people? Are you kidding me?
No company can charge that little including all tools, overhead, etc.

Sounds as if you've found a handyman & a couple of winos, ready to have
a bottle of MD-20/20 on you.

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:56:02 GMT, LittleF wrote:

We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

With proper care, a T&M contract is a perfectly reasonable approach.
The problem is, most folks don't know what to what out for (hence your
question!)

There's an article in the latest Journal of Light Construction about
T&M contracts. There's some good information in there about what to
what out for in these types of contracts. it's written for the
contractor audience, but the info still applies.

HTH,

Paul

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:59:56 -0400, Paul Franklin
wrote:



With proper care, a T&M contract is a perfectly reasonable approach.
The problem is, most folks don't know what to what out for (hence your
question!)

There's an article in the latest Journal of Light Construction about
T&M contracts. There's some good information in there about what to
what out for in these types of contracts. it's written for the
contractor audience, but the info still applies.

HTH,

Paul

I would like to read this, but it appears membership is needed.

Can you possibly copy/paste it here, from online access?

Thanks

Mike Flar wrote:
LittleF wrote:
We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

First, a real contractor isn't going to install customer supplied
materials. There's way too many pitfalls. From faulty material, to
wrong material, and everything in between. Who bites the bullet?

Second, exactly at what cost are the "subs" going to charge?

Third, $115 an hour for skilled labor for 3 people? Are you kidding
me? No company can charge that little including all tools, overhead,
etc.
Sounds as if you've found a handyman & a couple of winos, ready to
have a bottle of MD-20/20 on you.

You are so right!!!!!!!

--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texas
www.EnergyEqualizers.com

"LittleF" wrote in message
...
We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.

What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?


You need to have a cut off point. A maximum price. I suggest that you get
a few other prices before committing. A kitchen remodel is not an unusual
project that a contractor cannot give a firm price. A recent customer of
mine got a price of $27,000.00 from a contractor to remodel a kitchen in a
two bedroom condo. She wound up sub- contracting everything herself for
less than half of that.