Best guess is the check valve in the submersible pump has failed. Leak in
the bladder could be the cause but after a while there wouldn't be any more
air left. If the problem is the same over and over again then it is the
check valve. If it vgets better after a few cycles then it is the bladder.
If the bladder tank has a vavle on the connection then turn it off and
cycle the pump a few times with 5 minutes wait in between. If problem is
gone then it was the tank, if not gone while tank is off the system then it
is the check valve.

Some things don't make sense - the well being only 80 ft deep with water
level 65 ft down is too close for comfort. Water levels go down with
seasons or drought years. Also pumps draw down the water in the well a foot
to 5 feet. Just seems like well is not deep enough for all likely
conditions. Also, size of bladder is a lot higher than any I have ever
heard of on residential system - 5 to 20 gallons is the norm. Is this a
commercial or other application?

Reinhard wrote:

Best guess is the check valve in the submersible pump has failed. Leak in
the bladder could be the cause but after a while there wouldn't be any more
air left. If the problem is the same over and over again then it is the
check valve. If it vgets better after a few cycles then it is the bladder.
If the bladder tank has a vavle on the connection then turn it off and
cycle the pump a few times with 5 minutes wait in between. If problem is
gone then it was the tank, if not gone while tank is off the system then it
is the check valve.


Question from newbie well user: Could a leak in the downpipe
or fitting cause a similar condition?
Would a leaking check or downpipe cause slow drop in tank
pressure during off-cycle?

Jim

Thanks for the reply!
I'll double check the paperwork again, but I think that I'm correct about
the depth and water level.
I have an 80 gallon tank because I got it from a local hardware store that
was going out of business. It was clearance priced for less than a 20 gallon
tank elsewhere. It was still sealed new in the box, so I figured that it
wouldn't hurt to have the extra capacity.
If the check valve in the pump is bad, how does air get into the system? I
figured that if the check valve was bad water would just run back down the
well, but somehow air is getting in the system.



"Reinhard" wrote in message
...
Best guess is the check valve in the submersible pump has failed. Leak in
the bladder could be the cause but after a while there wouldn't be any
more
air left. If the problem is the same over and over again then it is the
check valve. If it vgets better after a few cycles then it is the bladder.
If the bladder tank has a vavle on the connection then turn it off and
cycle the pump a few times with 5 minutes wait in between. If problem is
gone then it was the tank, if not gone while tank is off the system then
it
is the check valve.

Some things don't make sense - the well being only 80 ft deep with water
level 65 ft down is too close for comfort. Water levels go down with
seasons or drought years. Also pumps draw down the water in the well a
foot
to 5 feet. Just seems like well is not deep enough for all likely
conditions. Also, size of bladder is a lot higher than any I have ever
heard of on residential system - 5 to 20 gallons is the norm. Is this a
commercial or other application?

"Keith Stelter" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks for the reply!
I'll double check the paperwork again, but I think that I'm correct about
the depth and water level.
I have an 80 gallon tank because I got it from a local hardware store that
was going out of business. It was clearance priced for less than a 20
gallon
tank elsewhere. It was still sealed new in the box, so I figured that it
wouldn't hurt to have the extra capacity.
If the check valve in the pump is bad, how does air get into the system? I
figured that if the check valve was bad water would just run back down the
well, but somehow air is getting in the system.


The bigger tank isn't an issue. It just makes the pump cycle longer.

The water is being replaced by air that's getting sucked in through a bad
faucet or a leaky fitting.

Do you happen to have sulfur water?

"Keith Stelter" wrote in
:

Thanks for the reply!
I'll double check the paperwork again, but I think that I'm correct
about the depth and water level.
I have an 80 gallon tank because I got it from a local hardware store
that was going out of business. It was clearance priced for less than
a 20 gallon tank elsewhere. It was still sealed new in the box, so I
figured that it wouldn't hurt to have the extra capacity.
If the check valve in the pump is bad, how does air get into the
system? I figured that if the check valve was bad water would just run
back down the well, but somehow air is getting in the system.

Good question about how air gets in. If there are no leaks at all then
there should be no air even if check valve was bad. Water couldn't run
back down if air couldn't get in. I think Jim's question about a leak
might be correct except then the pump should be cycling every time the
system pressure drips below the start setting. I don't know you you would
be able to tell if the pump was cycling, if the leak was small, even
medium.

If there was no leak then your whole system would be under negative
pressure when the pump stopped. I've seen a hot water tank collapsed
under this sort of negative pressure, was a real cheap old tank. Also,
you'd get a good sucking noise when you opened a tap before the pump
could cut in. Since you can't see any leaks it mst be underground or in
the well.

If you have a dripping tap then that could be the source for air leakage,
maybe pressure relief valve on hot water tank, maybe listen close at
various fittings for a slow air sucking sound.

Start by shining a flashlight or mirror down well in case leak is close
enough to see. Listen close,too, because you should be able to hear a
leak. If you have to, pull the pump out and check for loose or leaky
fittings. Pressurise the system either with water or air if need be.

"Reinhard" wrote in message
...

Good question about how air gets in. If there are no leaks at all then
there should be no air even if check valve was bad. Water couldn't run
back down if air couldn't get in.


Think again, there's pressure on the system.

Your leak can only be between the pump and check valve (if submerged)
not valve itself but between or on your prime plug if your pump
have one, leak will be on the low side of pump while pump is pumping
would cause it to suck the air in.

"Reinhard" wrote in message
...
"Keith Stelter" wrote in
:

Thanks for the reply!
I'll double check the paperwork again, but I think that I'm correct
about the depth and water level.
I have an 80 gallon tank because I got it from a local hardware store
that was going out of business. It was clearance priced for less than
a 20 gallon tank elsewhere. It was still sealed new in the box, so I
figured that it wouldn't hurt to have the extra capacity.
If the check valve in the pump is bad, how does air get into the
system? I figured that if the check valve was bad water would just run
back down the well, but somehow air is getting in the system.

Good question about how air gets in. If there are no leaks at all then
there should be no air even if check valve was bad. Water couldn't run
back down if air couldn't get in. I think Jim's question about a leak
might be correct except then the pump should be cycling every time the
system pressure drips below the start setting. I don't know you you would
be able to tell if the pump was cycling, if the leak was small, even
medium.

If there was no leak then your whole system would be under negative
pressure when the pump stopped. I've seen a hot water tank collapsed
under this sort of negative pressure, was a real cheap old tank. Also,
you'd get a good sucking noise when you opened a tap before the pump
could cut in. Since you can't see any leaks it mst be underground or in
the well.

If you have a dripping tap then that could be the source for air leakage,
maybe pressure relief valve on hot water tank, maybe listen close at
various fittings for a slow air sucking sound.

Start by shining a flashlight or mirror down well in case leak is close
enough to see. Listen close,too, because you should be able to hear a
leak. If you have to, pull the pump out and check for loose or leaky
fittings. Pressurise the system either with water or air if need be.

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
t...
Reinhard wrote:

Best guess is the check valve in the submersible pump has failed. Leak in
the bladder could be the cause but after a while there wouldn't be any
more air left. If the problem is the same over and over again then it is
the check valve. If it vgets better after a few cycles then it is the
bladder. If the bladder tank has a vavle on the connection then turn it
off and cycle the pump a few times with 5 minutes wait in between. If
problem is gone then it was the tank, if not gone while tank is off the
system then it is the check valve.


Question from newbie well user: Could a leak in the downpipe
or fitting cause a similar condition?
Would a leaking check or downpipe cause slow drop in tank
pressure during off-cycle?

Jim

If you have pressure dropping while the pump is not working, and you have
eliminated all possible leaks in structure (ie turned the main off to the
house) then the problem is somewhere between the bladder tank and the well.
The bulk of leaks on 10+ y/o systems I've seen are at the connection between
the pitless adapter and the tubing into the house. It seems at some point a
lot of people thought it was fine to bury an attached and fairly rigid
tubing to the metal pitless adapter using a plastic barb. It is then only a
matter of time.

On Aug 5, 11:13 am, "Keith Stelter" wrote:
Thanks for the reply!
I'll double check the paperwork again, but I think that I'm correct about
the depth and water level.
I have an 80 gallon tank because I got it from a local hardware store that
was going out of business. It was clearance priced for less than a 20 gallon
tank elsewhere. It was still sealed new in the box, so I figured that it
wouldn't hurt to have the extra capacity.
If the check valve in the pump is bad, how does air get into the system? I
figured that if the check valve was bad water would just run back down the
well, but somehow air is getting in the system.

"Reinhard" wrote in message

...



Best guess is the check valve in the submersible pump has failed. Leak in
the bladder could be the cause but after a while there wouldn't be any
more
air left. If the problem is the same over and over again then it is the
check valve. If it vgets better after a few cycles then it is the bladder.
If the bladder tank has a vavle on the connection then turn it off and
cycle the pump a few times with 5 minutes wait in between. If problem is
gone then it was the tank, if not gone while tank is off the system then
it
is the check valve.

Some things don't make sense - the well being only 80 ft deep with water
level 65 ft down is too close for comfort. Water levels go down with
seasons or drought years. Also pumps draw down the water in the well a
foot
to 5 feet. Just seems like well is not deep enough for all likely
conditions. Also, size of bladder is a lot higher than any I have ever
heard of on residential system - 5 to 20 gallons is the norm. Is this a
commercial or other application?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't see the OP so I don't know what the original symptoms are.

If the system remains pressurized, i.e, does not leak down to 0
pressure then air _is not being sucked in_. Any leak in the system
sprays water out.

It is common for air to be entrained in water and separate out in the
pressure tank. My system occasionally spits some air when I first use
a faucet in the morning.

Nothing wrong with a big tank - your pump just runs longer on each
cycle and as it is start portion that is hardest on the pump motor
that is all to the good.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
....

It is common for air to be entrained in water and separate out in the
pressure tank. My system occasionally spits some air when I first use
a faucet in the morning.


It would be highly unlikely to be as much as OP states and to be
different after three years than from initial, though.

He's getting air ingress somewhere undoubtedly.

--

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...

If the system remains pressurized, i.e, does not leak down to 0
pressure then air _is not being sucked in_. Any leak in the system
sprays water out.


Air can enter into a pressurized system through a leak.

On Aug 5, 9:14 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

oups.com...

If the system remains pressurized, i.e, does not leak down to 0
pressure then air _is not being sucked in_. Any leak in the system
sprays water out.

Air can enter into a pressurized system through a leak.

Well that could stand a bit more explanation. Just how does air get
'sucked into' a pressurized system? A venturi could perhaps do it but
those are rara avis in a residential plumbing system.

Harry K