[Mail Man Bob]

I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water- and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

[Morris Dovey]

Mail Man Bob wrote:
| I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts
| are plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle
| board. The mfr calls it something else (furniture board?), but
| it's plain old particle board as far as I can tell.
|
| The particle board pieces are cover with something - either
| laminate or plastic - except any places that are not visible.
|
| I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen
| cabinets - one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered
| allergic reactions to the binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.
|
| Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a
| different orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom'
| job. So for cost, we have to use as standard a material as we can.
|
| My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of
| sealer - either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any
| vapors inside.
|
| Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...
|
| 1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen
| water- and oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.
|
| 2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens
| in particle board. Anyone know about that?

It's not clear whether you're building or buying these cabinets.

If you're buying them, then you should be able to apply a light
wipe-on coat of poly to seal as much of the material as you can get
at. It should help to decrease moisture problems and inhibit
(somewhat) outgassing.

If you're building the cabinets, you might consider substituting a
product like Extira(tm) that uses acrylic plastic as a binder to
eliminate moisture problems and sidestep the outgassing problems
entirely. It looks like MDF, machines like MDF, and eats tool edges
just like MDF - but won't change dimensions more than 2% even when
left immersed in water. I've applied shellac, poly, and Zinser 1-2-3
primer without difficulties.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

[sailor]

On Jul 29, 3:45?pm, "Mail Man Bob" wrote:
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water- and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

Even if the vapors are safe, it would be a good idea to seal moisture
out.

I've seen lots of cabinets fall apart when the particle board, mdf,
etc gets

wet.

[Lew Hodgett]

"Mail Man Bob" wrote:

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Why not shellac?

Lew

[Art]

If you haven't bought cabinets yet I would check local stores instead of HD
or Lowes. I did and found better quality installed for less money than HD
and Lowes wanted without installation included.



"Mail Man Bob" wrote in message
news:y76ri.7378$8u1.1964@trnddc07...
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to
the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a
different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water- and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

[John Grossbohlin]

"Mail Man Bob" wrote in message
news:y76ri.7378$8u1.1964@trnddc07...
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to
the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Another approach to this is to "cook off" the chemicals that are outgassing
before the cabinets are brought into the home... The outgassing can be sped
up by placing the cabinets in a relatively hot environment for a while. For
example, an uninsulated closed up garage that gets a lot of sun, or a sunny
"Florida room" that can be isolated from the main home is probably
sufficient for this purpose. The same type of thing can be done to cook off
the chemicals in carpets, polyester fiber fill in pillows, etc.

Another approach is to use forced ventilation to remove the chemical laden
air from the home. An air-to-air heat exchanger is advisable to save on the
"conditioned air" expense.

Look up Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS) and/or Environmental Illness for
more information on speeding up the outgassing process and on how to deal
with internal air pollution in general.

John

[Mail Man Bob]

Yes, same here. These are by Mid Continent thru a reputable installer.

"Art" wrote in message
link.net...
If you haven't bought cabinets yet I would check local stores instead of
HD
or Lowes. I did and found better quality installed for less money than HD
and Lowes wanted without installation included.



"Mail Man Bob" wrote in message
news:y76ri.7378$8u1.1964@trnddc07...
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The
mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen
cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to
the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a
different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for
cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water-
and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

[Mail Man Bob]

Good question. Shellac was my first thought also. Anyone have more ideas
as to what kind of sealer would be best?

Also, I looked at water-based and oil-based. I'll have to do the
application in the house, so whichever will dissipate quicker and still seal
good would be best for me.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Mail Man Bob" wrote:

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Why not shellac?

Lew

[William Underhill]

Morris Dovey wrote:

If you're building the cabinets, you might consider substituting a
product like Extira(tm) that uses acrylic plastic as a binder to
eliminate moisture problems and sidestep the outgassing problems
entirely. It looks like MDF, machines like MDF, and eats tool edges
just like MDF - but won't change dimensions more than 2% even when
left immersed in water. I've applied shellac, poly, and Zinser 1-2-3
primer without difficulties.

Bet that stuff weighs a ton, with all that plastic in it. And I don't
know what the fire retardancy would be like...

W. Underhill
--
"Take sides! Always take sides! You may sometimes be wrong - but the man
who refuses to take sides must *always* be wrong! Heaven save us from
poltroons who fear to make a choice!" R.A. Heinlein, "Double Star"

[Lew Hodgett]

Mail Man Bob wrote:

Good question. Shellac was my first thought also. Anyone have more
ideas
as to what kind of sealer would be best?

Also, I looked at water-based and oil-based. I'll have to do the
application in the house, so whichever will dissipate quicker and
still seal
good would be best for me.

Shellac and it's alcohol

VOCs become NBD

I'd probably use 1 lb, maybe even 1/2 lb cut based on how it applies.

YMMV.

BTW, my idea of water based stuff is interior wall paint, just so you
know I'm biased.


Lew

[Morris Dovey]

William Underhill wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|
|| If you're building the cabinets, you might consider substituting a
|| product like Extira(tm) that uses acrylic plastic as a binder to
|| eliminate moisture problems and sidestep the outgassing problems
|| entirely. It looks like MDF, machines like MDF, and eats tool edges
|| just like MDF - but won't change dimensions more than 2% even when
|| left immersed in water. I've applied shellac, poly, and Zinser
|| 1-2-3 primer without difficulties.
|
| Bet that stuff weighs a ton, with all that plastic in it. And I
| don't know what the fire retardancy would be like...

I should have added: "Heavy like MDF" to the list. I'm not sure about
the relative combustability.

I use it for routed signs. You can see an example by following the
link in my sig.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/PT_Sign.html

[Ron Hock]

Shellac has the best vapor-barrier properties of any finish, even the
newer plastic ones. Ten billion lac bugs can't be wrong.

Ron Hock
www.hockfinishes.com

Mail Man Bob wrote:
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water- and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob






--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com

[Mail Man Bob]

Thanks LH.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Mail Man Bob wrote:

Good question. Shellac was my first thought also. Anyone have more
ideas
as to what kind of sealer would be best?

Also, I looked at water-based and oil-based. I'll have to do the
application in the house, so whichever will dissipate quicker and
still seal
good would be best for me.

Shellac and it's alcohol

VOCs become NBD

I'd probably use 1 lb, maybe even 1/2 lb cut based on how it applies.

YMMV.

BTW, my idea of water based stuff is interior wall paint, just so you
know I'm biased.


Lew

[Mail Man Bob]

Thanks, Ron. Shellac it is.

"Ron Hock" wrote in message
...
Shellac has the best vapor-barrier properties of any finish, even the
newer plastic ones. Ten billion lac bugs can't be wrong.

Ron Hock
www.hockfinishes.com

Mail Man Bob wrote:
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The
mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen
cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to
the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a
different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for
cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water-
and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob






--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com

[Mail Man Bob]

Thanks everyone for all the great info. I'll trot down to the shellac
store and let you know how it turns out.

What's a good binaries group that most people have access to -- I'll post a
few snap shots FWIW.

Bob

[GROVER]

On Jul 29, 3:45 pm, "Mail Man Bob" wrote:
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water- and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

While on a work assignment in Germany many years ago, I was made aware
that the German building code which governed casework, required that
all exposed edges of melamine board ( particle board substrate) be
covered. Presumably for the formaldehyde outgassing problem mentioned
here. The German cabinet makers used edgebanding at that time,
Joe G

[Mail Man Bob]

"GROVER" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 29, 3:45 pm, "Mail Man Bob" wrote:
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The
mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen
cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to
the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a
different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for
cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water-
and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

While on a work assignment in Germany many years ago, I was made aware
that the German building code which governed casework, required that
all exposed edges of melamine board ( particle board substrate) be
covered. Presumably for the formaldehyde outgassing problem mentioned
here. The German cabinet makers used edgebanding at that time,
Joe G


Thanks, Joe. Do you know where to get edgebanding?

[Ron Hock]

Mail Man Bob wrote:
Thanks everyone for all the great info. I'll trot down to the shellac
store and let you know how it turns out.

Mix it yourself, Bob. The pre-mixed stuff comes with the risk of it
being too old to work properly. Once mixed, shellac and alcohol begin to
form esters that retard drying and reduce the dried film's water
resistance. Use denatured alcohol (again, buy fresh as it absorbs water
from the air while open and most half-cans that are sitting around
probably contain more water than you'd want) in a ratio of about one
pound shellac flakes to one gallon of alcohol (precision not required).
For smaller quantities, do the math.

It's my opinion that the reason shellac fell from favor a few decades
ago was due to the prevalence of canned shellac that didn't perform as
well as it could because it was too old. That, and the hoopla around
those new polyurethanes led the market to assume that shellac was
old-hat. There's still a prevalent myth that a wet glass will leave a
ring on a shellac finish but that's not true if the shellac had been
freshly mixed. Shellac will, however, soften in the prolonged presence
of distilled spirits (whiskey, et al -- so mop up after that party) and
it begins to soften at about 140F so you can't set a cuppa on it without
a coaster or it will deboss a mug-shaped ring.

Sorry to go on and on but the more I learn about shellac the more I like
the stuff. Good luck with your project, Bob. I think sealing those
panels is a good, healthy idea and I've no doubt that shellac is the
best finish to use.

Ron
--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com & www.hockfinishes.com

[GROVER]

On Jul 31, 12:41 pm, "Mail Man Bob" wrote:
"GROVER" wrote in message

ps.com...





On Jul 29, 3:45 pm, "Mail Man Bob" wrote:
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The
mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen
cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions to
the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a
different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for
cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water-
and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

While on a work assignment in Germany many years ago, I was made aware
that the German building code which governed casework, required that
all exposed edges of melamine board ( particle board substrate) be
covered. Presumably for the formaldehyde outgassing problem mentioned
here. The German cabinet makers used edgebanding at that time,
Joe G

Thanks, Joe. Do you know where to get edgebanding?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

i use a heat activated form of edge banding which can be applied with
an ordinary household iron. I purchase it at a local cabinet makers
supply. Usually these places supply the local cabinet shops with
hardwood veneer plywood,hinges, drawer slides, finishing supplies et
al.The Borgs don,t seem to carry edge banding.
Joe G

[Michael \(LS\)]

"Mail Man Bob" wrote in message
news:mDJri.7709$8u1.5105@trnddc07...

"GROVER" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 29, 3:45 pm, "Mail Man Bob" wrote:
I am going to install some kitchen cabinets. The structural parts are
plywood, front are solid, but most of the rest is particle board. The
mfr
calls it something else (furniture board?), but it's plain old
particle
board as far as I can tell.

The particle board pieces are cover with something - either laminate
or
plastic - except any places that are not visible.

I know of 2 people personally who had dealings with new kitchen
cabinets -
one in apt , other in a house - and both suffered allergic reactions
to
the
binding chemicals - formaldehyde or other.

Going to all-plywood or all-wood construction sends the price to a
different
orbit, since this would essentially be doing a 'custom' job. So for
cost,
we have to use as standard a material as we can.

My thought is to coat the uncovered surfaces with some kind of
sealer -
either a primer or water seal product - to seal in any vapors inside.

Long story, I know.... but 2 questions...

1 - Can someone recommend the best type of sealer? I have seen water-
and
oil-based at Home Depot, as well as various primers, etc.

2 - I heard something recently about the govt outlawing carcinogens in
particle board. Anyone know about that?

Whew! That's a long one. (The longer the better. :O)

Thanks.

Bob

While on a work assignment in Germany many years ago, I was made aware
that the German building code which governed casework, required that
all exposed edges of melamine board ( particle board substrate) be
covered. Presumably for the formaldehyde outgassing problem mentioned
here. The German cabinet makers used edgebanding at that time,
Joe G


Thanks, Joe. Do you know where to get edgebanding?



Ou****er has a bunch of different types. See:
http://www.ou****ercatalogs.com/2006...42&catalog=otm

HTH,

Michael (LS)

[Mail Man Bob]

Where's a good place to get shellac for mixing yourself? All I could find
were quarts at Home Depot, but I'm sure they are pre-mixed.

"Ron Hock" wrote in message
...
Mail Man Bob wrote:
Thanks everyone for all the great info. I'll trot down to the shellac
store and let you know how it turns out.

Mix it yourself, Bob. The pre-mixed stuff comes with the risk of it
being too old to work properly. Once mixed, shellac and alcohol begin to
form esters that retard drying and reduce the dried film's water
resistance. Use denatured alcohol (again, buy fresh as it absorbs water
from the air while open and most half-cans that are sitting around
probably contain more water than you'd want) in a ratio of about one
pound shellac flakes to one gallon of alcohol (precision not required).
For smaller quantities, do the math.

It's my opinion that the reason shellac fell from favor a few decades
ago was due to the prevalence of canned shellac that didn't perform as
well as it could because it was too old. That, and the hoopla around
those new polyurethanes led the market to assume that shellac was
old-hat. There's still a prevalent myth that a wet glass will leave a
ring on a shellac finish but that's not true if the shellac had been
freshly mixed. Shellac will, however, soften in the prolonged presence
of distilled spirits (whiskey, et al -- so mop up after that party) and
it begins to soften at about 140F so you can't set a cuppa on it without
a coaster or it will deboss a mug-shaped ring.

Sorry to go on and on but the more I learn about shellac the more I like
the stuff. Good luck with your project, Bob. I think sealing those
panels is a good, healthy idea and I've no doubt that shellac is the
best finish to use.

Ron
--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com & www.hockfinishes.com

[B A R R Y]

Mail Man Bob wrote:
Where's a good place to get shellac for mixing yourself? All I could find
were quarts at Home Depot, but I'm sure they are pre-mixed.

Woodcraft, Homestead Finishing, or other better woodworking finish
suppliers. It comes as dry flakes or buttons, which need to be chopped
up for faster dissolving.

Personally, I've been very happy with fresh Zinnser Seal Coat, available
at GOOD paint stores, but not necessarily the big home centers.