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Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of
shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
mg wrote:
I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? Cleanup is a matter of degree. Any roof job is going to leave a few pieces of old and new roof as well as a number of nails around. It is just part of that kind of work. It sounds like yours was worse than it should have been. As for the swamp cooler, I really don't know what good practice is for that kind of issue. I have never had a house that had that kind of problem. I suggest you start by reviewing any kind of contract you may have signed or they may have given you. See what it says. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 3, 11:34 am, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote: mg wrote: I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? Cleanup is a matter of degree. Any roof job is going to leave a few pieces of old and new roof as well as a number of nails around. It is just part of that kind of work. It sounds like yours was worse than it should have been. As for the swamp cooler, I really don't know what good practice is for that kind of issue. I have never had a house that had that kind of problem. I suggest you start by reviewing any kind of contract you may have signed or they may have given you. See what it says. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit As far as cleanup goes, most roofers in these parts will lay a tarp on the lawn below the roof. This is a better-faster-cheaper way to deal with tear off mess. Just running the shingles up the legs of the swamp cooler sounds shoddy to me. I guess in hindsight you should have asked him how he would deal with it. I would certainly think the best way would be to get the new shingles under the legs, but I'm not familiar with them so can't say what the standard practice is. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 3, 12:24 pm, mg wrote:
I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? The cleanup should be more thorough. Ask them to do a better job and to have them use a magnetic broom (basically a long magnet on wheels), that will pick up any stray nails and keep your lawn mower from hurling projectiles and chewing up the blades. Your other point is not a valid one. You do _not_ want a roofer disconnecting equipment. Nothing good would ever come of that. If you wanted the shingles under the equipment it was your responsibility to contact the appropriate people for that sort of work and have it completed before the roofer arrived. Ripping off a few shingles to expose the connections when you do eventually need to replace that stuff, is no big deal. Rather trivial, actually. R |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
"marson" wrote in message oups.com... On Jun 3, 11:34 am, "Joseph Meehan" -- Content clipped -- Just running the shingles up the legs of the swamp cooler sounds shoddy to me. I guess in hindsight you should have asked him how he would deal with it. I would certainly think the best way would be to get the new shingles under the legs, but I'm not familiar with them so can't say what the standard practice is. On my recent reroof job the contractor jacked up the air conditioner support frame sufficiently to shingle under the mounting. I would expect that this is the normal and preferred practice. SJF |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
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Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the
workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? The cleanup should have been better from what you describe. It is impossible to contain every scrap of shingle and nail when you do a tear off even with tarps but a good faith effort is expected. So far as the cooler and antennae are concerned, it should have been moved before roofing but no way is that the responsiblilty of the roofer to remove your equipment unless specifically requested. The roofer may show up on the job not knowing exactly what to expect. The person who bid your job may not be on the crew. Typcially they just do the job and leave without even interacting with the homeowner. From the roofers perspective, if you don't move it and they are not paid to move it then they have no choice but to work around it. They don't have time to stop to ask you or anyone else why it hasn't been moved. So, it you don't move it then you have to have it in the contract if you want the roofers to move it. An acceptable patch can be made in both cases, no problem. It should be just as good as new when patched. I do not think you can hold the roofers responsible for this extra work unless it was in the original contact. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
What did your contract say about cleanup and swamp coolers? Sure, I know, you didn't go to the trouble of getting one. You should have. The job he bid was exactly as he thought it was. Unfortunately, you didn't do your homework. Shame on you. On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 09:24:24 -0700, mg wrote: I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
"Lawrence" wrote in message ups.com... My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? The cleanup should have been better from what you describe. It is impossible to contain every scrap of shingle and nail when you do a tear off even with tarps but a good faith effort is expected. So far as the cooler and antennae are concerned, it should have been moved before roofing but no way is that the responsiblilty of the roofer to remove your equipment unless specifically requested. The roofer may show up on the job not knowing exactly what to expect. The person who bid your job may not be on the crew. Typcially they just do the job and leave without even interacting with the homeowner. From the roofers perspective, if you don't move it and they are not paid to move it then they have no choice but to work around it. They don't have time to stop to ask you or anyone else why it hasn't been moved. So, it you don't move it then you have to have it in the contract if you want the roofers to move it. An acceptable patch can be made in both cases, no problem. It should be just as good as new when patched. I do not think you can hold the roofers responsible for this extra work unless it was in the original contact. Yes, I would contact the roofers and at least ask for a half bundle of shingles to store somewhere, this way if you move your dish or have the cooler replaced you will have matching shingles to patch the roof. It is always a good practice to have some extras of tiles, shingles or anything that could be hard to find in the future, to have around for repairs or damage replacements. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
marson wrote:
... As far as cleanup goes, most roofers in these parts will lay a tarp on the lawn below the roof. This is a better-faster-cheaper way to deal with tear off mess. That is the way my recent hail damage re-roof was done, but it does not totally eliminate clean up or offer 100% The guys who did the job were careful. They also did a after removing the taps clean up and followed up with an industrial magnet to catch additional nails, but even with all that there were a few nails and scraps left behind. I might add that the gutters were clean when they left, but a few days and rains later, they had some scraps and nails in them. I agree that good workmanship means it should be clean when they are done, and I consider what that crew did was clean when they finished. As my uncle always said, "Only God is perfect." He of course never tried to be God. :-) -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
"EXT" wrote in message:
I would contact the roofers and at least ask for a half bundle of shingles to store somewhere, this way if you move your dish or have the cooler replaced you will have matching shingles to patch the roof. It is always a good practice to have some extras of tiles, shingles or anything that could be hard to find in the future, to have around for repairs or damage replacements. And store the replacement shingles outside, out of the package so they will bleach at the same rate as the shingles installed on your roof. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
In article .com,
RicodJour wrote: You do _not_ want a roofer disconnecting equipment. Nothing good would ever come of that. I agree. They are roofers, not swamp cooler technicians. Done "properly" (to your specs), you have have to hire a swamp cooler technician to REMOVE the swamp cooler. Then the roofer would do his job. Then the swamp cooler guy would return and REinstall the machine. Done this way, the roofing job price would go up like your cable TV bill. As for the mess, I suspect the OP got as good a clean-up as he'll get after having complained about it. We had a HORRENDOUS hail storm 10 years ago. Baseball size. (no joke) I retrieved a couple "stones" from my bathtub as they came right through the skylight. Hordes of "roofing gypsies" descended on our community, leaving in their wake all manner of workmanship ranging from good to total trash. I waited a year before our LOCAL (well reputed) roofer got to my house while virtually everyone else on my block had theirs done by traveling roofers. My original, 7-year-old roof was torn off and replaced by this craftsman while we were away on a week's vacation. The old man from across the street came over to compliment my job. He observed that I got a MUCH better job than he did and that the clean-up after my job was MUCH better than what he had gotten. Indeed: I probably found no more than 3-4 nails and a couple 50-cent-piece-size chunks of shingle at the end of my downspouts after the next, hard rain. -- :) JR No project too small All projects too big |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Jun 3, 1:19 pm, "EXT" wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message ups.com... My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? The cleanup should have been better from what you describe. It is impossible to contain every scrap of shingle and nail when you do a tear off even with tarps but a good faith effort is expected. So far as the cooler and antennae are concerned, it should have been moved before roofing but no way is that the responsiblilty of the roofer to remove your equipment unless specifically requested. The roofer may show up on the job not knowing exactly what to expect. The person who bid your job may not be on the crew. Typcially they just do the job and leave without even interacting with the homeowner. From the roofers perspective, if you don't move it and they are not paid to move it then they have no choice but to work around it. They don't have time to stop to ask you or anyone else why it hasn't been moved. So, it you don't move it then you have to have it in the contract if you want the roofers to move it. An acceptable patch can be made in both cases, no problem. It should be just as good as new when patched. I do not think you can hold the roofers responsible for this extra work unless it was in the original contact. Yes, I would contact the roofers and at least ask for a half bundle of shingles to store somewhere, this way if you move your dish or have the cooler replaced you will have matching shingles to patch the roof. It is always a good practice to have some extras of tiles, shingles or anything that could be hard to find in the future, to have around for repairs or damage replacements. That sounds like great advice. Thank You! As it turns out, I did replace the swamp cooler a couple of years ago. So, it will last quite awhile. They do eventually rust out, however. I'm not sure if one will last 30-years (the advertised life of the shingles), though, even if well cared for. I would guess DirecTV has upgraded their dish antennas about 3 times in the last 10 years. So, I'm not very optimistic about not having to replace the dish. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Jun 3, 2:06 pm, "Travis Jordan" wrote:
"EXT" wrote in message: I would contact the roofers and at least ask for a half bundle of shingles to store somewhere, this way if you move your dish or have the cooler replaced you will have matching shingles to patch the roof. It is always a good practice to have some extras of tiles, shingles or anything that could be hard to find in the future, to have around for repairs or damage replacements. And store the replacement shingles outside, out of the package so they will bleach at the same rate as the shingles installed on your roof. That would be sort of difficult to do, I think, since I would have to have them spread out somewhere for many years. That's a good point, though. In 10-20 years the shingles aren't going to match any how, even if they were exactly the same before they aged. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 3, 10:54 am, marson wrote:
On Jun 3, 11:34 am, "Joseph Meehan" wrote: mg wrote: I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? Cleanup is a matter of degree. Any roof job is going to leave a few pieces of old and new roof as well as a number of nails around. It is just part of that kind of work. It sounds like yours was worse than it should have been. As for the swamp cooler, I really don't know what good practice is for that kind of issue. I have never had a house that had that kind of problem. I suggest you start by reviewing any kind of contract you may have signed or they may have given you. See what it says. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit As far as cleanup goes, most roofers in these parts will lay a tarp on the lawn below the roof. This is a better-faster-cheaper way to deal with tear off mess. After I seen the difficulty involved with trying to clean up pieces the size of a dollar and smaller and the problem with the nails, that was the first question that came to mind. Why didn't they use a tarp of some kind? It would certainly take less time to lay the tarp down and pick it up again, than it would to do a half-way decent job cleaning the area by hand. Just running the shingles up the legs of the swamp cooler sounds shoddy to me. I guess in hindsight you should have asked him how he would deal with it. I would certainly think the best way would be to get the new shingles under the legs, but I'm not familiar with them so can't say what the standard practice is. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
mg wrote:
I would guess DirecTV has upgraded their dish antennas about 3 times in the last 10 years. So, I'm not very optimistic about not having to replace the dish. Hint: Don't put the new dish on the roof. Mount it on a fence post or a metal post sunk in concrete in the yard. TV antennas need to be high, a dish? No. Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 3, 1:05 pm, Lawrence wrote:
My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? The cleanup should have been better from what you describe. It is impossible to contain every scrap of shingle and nail when you do a tear off even with tarps but a good faith effort is expected. So far as the cooler and antennae are concerned, it should have been moved before roofing but no way is that the responsiblilty of the roofer to remove your equipment unless specifically requested. The roofer may show up on the job not knowing exactly what to expect. The person who bid your job may not be on the crew. Typcially they just do the job and leave without even interacting with the homeowner. From the roofers perspective, if you don't move it and they are not paid to move it then they have no choice but to work around it. They don't have time to stop to ask you or anyone else why it hasn't been moved. So, it you don't move it then you have to have it in the contract if you want the roofers to move it. An acceptable patch can be made in both cases, no problem. It should be just as good as new when patched. I do not think you can hold the roofers responsible for this extra work unless it was in the original contact. I'm definitely guilty of not getting the situation with the swamp cooler and dish antenna written into the contract. However, I did have the house reroofed in mid-80s and that contractor did put the roofing underneath the legs of the swamp cooler. So, unfortunately, I assumed it was standard practice. I actually did ask the contractor about the DirecTV antenna since I have one of the new type that is very difficult to aim. He told me that wouldn't be a problem since the roofers would put the mounting plate back in exactly the same holes. Unfortunately, I only got that verbally and didn't get it in the contract. Even if he had told me, though, that I would have to remove the antenna, that would have been OK. I can hire a guy to tune the antenna back in for about $25. Or, I can do it myself. The roofing job costs $4500.00. So 25 bucks wouldn't bother me any. Swamp coolers sit on top of a large sheet-metal duck (18" x 18" I think) and the legs are there mostly just to offer additional support. I've actually seen swamp coolers sitting on roofs with no legs at all. The 4 legs are connected to the corners of the swamp cooler with 2 sheet metal screws. It would be an extremely simple matter to remove these legs one or two at a time and roof under them and then put them back on. Swamp coolers are extremely common in my area. It's hard for me to imagine that roofers are going around the state roofing over the legs of swamp coolers when they are so easy to remove. Actually, it's probably a lot easier to remove the legs than it is to roof around them. It's good to know that it's not that difficult to do a patch. Maybe I'll hire someone to do that or perhaps I can do it myself even though I don't have a clue as to how it's done. It does seem sort of difficult to me, though. My inclination would be to lay the new shingles over the top of the old ones and then put a lot of patch repair stuff around the edges. The situation seems really kludgy to me, especially after just paying $4500 for a new, 30-year roof. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Jun 3, 5:05 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
mg wrote: I would guess DirecTV has upgraded their dish antennas about 3 times in the last 10 years. So, I'm not very optimistic about not having to replace the dish. Hint: Don't put the new dish on the roof. Mount it on a fence post or a metal post sunk in concrete in the yard. TV antennas need to be high, a dish? No. Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. I would love to do that. Unfortunately, my neighbor to my south has a solid wall of tall trees on the north side of his property. So, I had to put the antenna near the peak of my roof on the south end of my house to get clearance. I read somewhere that it helps to spray cooking oil (Pam) on the dish to prevent snow buildup. I've done that with mine and I don't have much trouble with snow. I'm not sure if it's actually because of the Pam, though. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 3, 2:46 pm, Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article .com, RicodJour wrote: You do _not_ want a roofer disconnecting equipment. Nothing good would ever come of that. I agree. They are roofers, not swamp cooler technicians. Done "properly" (to your specs), you have have to hire a swamp cooler technician to REMOVE the swamp cooler. snip Swamp cooler "technician"? They're not rocket science, or even refrigeration units, for that matter. Tom |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:15:14 -0700, mg wrote:
I would guess DirecTV has upgraded their dish antennas about 3 times in the last 10 years. So, I'm not very optimistic about not having to replace the dish. Do you have to replace the post, or only the dish? |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
In article , NOPSAMmm2005
@bigfoot.com says... On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? No. Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees. -- Keith |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 23:23:41 -0400, krw wrote:
In article , NOPSAMmm2005 says... On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? No. Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees. OK. Good point. I guess his neighbor should put in transparent trees. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 17:24:41 -0700, tom wrote:
On Jun 3, 2:46 pm, Jim Redelfs wrote: In article .com, RicodJour wrote: You do _not_ want a roofer disconnecting equipment. Nothing good would ever come of that. I agree. They are roofers, not swamp cooler technicians. Done "properly" (to your specs), you have have to hire a swamp cooler technician to REMOVE the swamp cooler. snip Swamp cooler "technician"? They're not rocket science, or even refrigeration units, for that matter. Tom A CSCT. A Certified Swamp Cooler Technician. :) |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
In article ,
mm wrote: Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees. OK. Good point. I guess his neighbor should put in transparent trees. This reminds me of a conversation I sat in on once. Some people were wondering what to do with an old junk PDP-8 computer. Person #1: We could throw it into the pond. Person #2: I wonder if it would float? ...silence for a moment, as people think about that... Someone: Well, it's smaller than a Volkswagen, and those float. Everyone: Ooh...good point! ...silence for a while.... Someone Else: A rock is smaller than a Volkswagen. What's scary about that conversation was it took place at Caltech, among people who went on to be chip designers, or build systems used by the NSA, or design air bag trigger sensors for the auto industry, and things like that. (To be fair, some of that conversation was influenced by alcohol and/or marijuana and/or a very hot, humid, Pasadena summer evening making everyone loopy). -- --Tim Smith |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 3, 9:32 pm, mm wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 17:24:41 -0700, tom wrote: On Jun 3, 2:46 pm, Jim Redelfs wrote: In article .com, RicodJour wrote: You do _not_ want a roofer disconnecting equipment. Nothing good would ever come of that. I agree. They are roofers, not swamp cooler technicians. Done "properly" (to your specs), you have have to hire a swamp cooler technician to REMOVE the swamp cooler. snip Swamp cooler "technician"? They're not rocket science, or even refrigeration units, for that matter. Tom A CSCT. A Certified Swamp Cooler Technician. :) Emoticons do allow for some sarcasm, don't they? Tom |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
mg wrote: I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? I found it interesting reading the posts from people saying "he's a roofer, not a swamp cooler installer." I think this illustrates the differences in the way things are done in different parts of the country. I'll bet those posters live in the east where you have your heating and cooling in your basement. Out in the west, it is very common (until recently) to have the AC and heater or swamp cooler on the roof. It is also not only common, but CODE to have the roofer lift the legs of the units and put the shingles under them and then put some tar around the legs. This is the normal and legal practice! To the OP: Is a 50 percent deposit even legal in your state? Where I live a contractor can't take more than 10 percent for a deposit. Was he even a licensed contractor? Second, did it pass city inspection? He did pull a permit, right? Don't pay anything until the inspection and ask the inspector about the cooler. You definitely got a bad job, it's just a matter of if it was not done to code and he will have to fix it. Whatever happens, given the obvious lack of attention to detail by this guy, I would get a reputable roofer to come out and do an inspection to see if he thinks there is anything that is going to cause big problems. This shouldn't cost more than 100 bucks and is well worth it after dealing with bozos like you did (I had a similar situation and had to do the same thing). -- John |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
"krw" wrote in message t... In article , NOPSAMmm2005 @bigfoot.com says... On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? No. Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees. -- Keith Satellite signals are in the 4 GHz range and can be blocked by thunderstorms as well as trees, etc. Also, any upgrades to a dish will probably be to either the software or possibly the feed horn, so the installation itself is relatively permanent. Over a few years we've had a few feed elements replaced, which isn't a big deal. -- |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
I'm definitely guilty of not getting the situation with the swamp cooler and dish antenna written into the contract. However, I did have the house reroofed in mid-80s and that contractor did put the roofing underneath the legs of the swamp cooler. So, unfortunately, I assumed it was standard practice. I will agree that a thoughful contractor would have either assumed it would have to be removed or at least put it in the contract for you. Some are very nervous about having a bid that's low enough to keep the crew working, that's the problem. Those items add to the cost, not by much but enough to make the bidder nervous. He's thinking, if I don't mention it or itemize it on the bid then I have a better chance of winning the job. Then when the guys get on the site they haven't been told one way or the other. Swamp coolers are extremely common in my area. It's hard for me to imagine that roofers are going around the state roofing over the legs of swamp coolers when they are so easy to remove. Actually, it's probably a lot easier to remove the legs than it is to roof around them. Agreed. A roofer only needs a few tools and just may not be prepared for that job even if it is easy it requires a few tools anyway. It's good to know that it's not that difficult to do a patch. Maybe I'll hire someone to do that or perhaps I can do it myself even though I don't have a clue as to how it's done. It does seem sort of difficult to me, though. My inclination would be to lay the new shingles over the top of the old ones and then put a lot of patch repair stuff around the edges. The situation seems really kludgy to me, especially after just paying $4500 for a new, 30-year roof.- Absolutely, you have every right to be dissapointed. Your contactor should have made sure it was in the contract and that arrangments were made. But, if you signed the contract then part of the responsiblity is also yours. You can eventually be happy it will just require more energy from you, a bummer I know. Patching is easy since the nails can be removed from the surrounding shingles by slipping a flat bar underneath. Then new shingles can be slipped in and nailed. No roofing cement should be needed. You do need a real roofer to do it if you don't have the confidence. You should be able find someone who has the smarts to both remove the equiment and also to make the patch. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:56:09 -0400, mm
wrote: On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? Nope. Not through leaves. Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, they are microwave. Easily absorbed by water for example. The water in leaves is what makes the trees 'microwave opaque'. g |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 4, 6:12 am, John Ross wrote:
mg wrote: I just had my house reroofed yesterday. It already had two layers of shingles on it. So, it was necessary to remove all of the old asphalt shingles before putting the new ones on. I have given the contractor about half of the money as a deposit, but I haven't given him the other half yet. The two issues I have with the job he did a 1. He roofed right over the swamp cooler legs instead of removing the legs and then putting the roofing underneath them. Now I have little teepee like or vulcano shaped mounds made out of bent shingles going up around the legs along with gobs of some sort of roofing sealer plastered all around legs. When the day comes that I have to replace the swamp cooler, I'm obviously going to have to tear off part of the shingles and then do some sort of a repair job. He also did the same thing with my satellite dish antenna. So, I'm never going to be able to get it off either without tearing off some shingles, etc. 2. Removing the Shingles made a helluva mess in my yard. I did raise a lot of Cain with those guys before they left in order to get most of it picked up, but there is still some left and there are also pieces of shingles in the rain gutters. The normal method of cleaning up was obviously to use a rake and then any pieces that weren't picked up by the rake were left for the homeowner. The problem is that this leaves one helluva a lot of asphalt shingle pieces in my yard that range in size from a dime to a dollar and even larger. In addition, there's no way to be sure that all of the nails have been picked up. So, you never know for sure if a child, for instance, could wind up with a nail in his foot someday. My two questions are, do I have legitimate complaints about the workmanship and even if the roofer lifts the legs of the swamp cooler and takes the antenna off and does it right will the patchwork repair job he does on the shingles be acceptable? I found it interesting reading the posts from people saying "he's a roofer, not a swamp cooler installer." I think this illustrates the differences in the way things are done in different parts of the country. I'll bet those posters live in the east where you have your heating and cooling in your basement. Out in the west, it is very common (until recently) to have the AC and heater or swamp cooler on the roof. It is also not only common, but CODE to have the roofer lift the legs of the units and put the shingles under them and then put some tar around the legs. This is the normal and legal practice! To the OP: Is a 50 percent deposit even legal in your state? Where I live a contractor can't take more than 10 percent for a deposit. Was he even a licensed contractor? Second, did it pass city inspection? He did pull a permit, right? Don't pay anything until the inspection and ask the inspector about the cooler. You definitely got a bad job, it's just a matter of if it was not done to code and he will have to fix it. Whatever happens, given the obvious lack of attention to detail by this guy, I would get a reputable roofer to come out and do an inspection to see if he thinks there is anything that is going to cause big problems. This shouldn't cost more than 100 bucks and is well worth it after dealing with bozos like you did (I had a similar situation and had to do the same thing). -- John- Wow! Thanks for all the great information John. With all the ideas you suggest, I have a feeling I'm going to win this one. I'll let you know. I did wonder if some of those other posters were from a different part of the country and really didn't understand the situation. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
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Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
Tim Smith wrote:
This reminds me of a conversation I sat in on once. Some people were wondering what to do with an old junk PDP-8 computer. Person #1: We could throw it into the pond. Person #2: I wonder if it would float? ...silence for a moment, as people think about that... Someone: Well, it's smaller than a Volkswagen, and those float. Everyone: Ooh...good point! ...silence for a while.... Someone Else: A rock is smaller than a Volkswagen. What's scary about that conversation was it took place at Caltech Sorry to have to tell you this so many years later, but those people may have been sharing a common cultural reference: Monty Python and the Holy Grail. This conversation echoes the very funny witch scene. Una |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Jun 4, 6:28 am, "JimR" wrote:
"krw" wrote in message t... In article , NOPSAMmm2005 @bigfoot.com says... On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? No. Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees. -- Keith Satellite signals are in the 4 GHz range and can be blocked by thunderstorms as well as trees, etc. Also, any upgrades to a dish will probably be to either the software or possibly the feed horn, so the installation itself is relatively permanent. Over a few years we've had a few feed elements replaced, which isn't a big deal. --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Unfortunately that's not the case. I'm currently on my third dish antenna from DirecTV, for instance. If there's a bright side, though, the mounting hole pattern on the dishes does appear to stay the same. Here's the scenario with my 3 dishes: Dish 1 - Standard dish Dish 2 - Upgrade to HDTV Dish 3 - Upgrade to receive local HDTV channels and HDTV from new satellite http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite...enna_types.asp |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:12:56 -0700, Tim Smith
wrote: In article , mm wrote: Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees. OK. Good point. I guess his neighbor should put in transparent trees. This reminds me of a conversation I sat in on once. Some people were wondering what to do with an old junk PDP-8 computer. Person #1: We could throw it into the pond. Person #2: I wonder if it would float? ...silence for a moment, as people think about that... Someone: Well, it's smaller than a Volkswagen, and those float. Everyone: Ooh...good point! ...silence for a while.... Someone Else: A rock is smaller than a Volkswagen. What's scary about that conversation was it took place at Caltech, among people who went on to be chip designers, or build systems used by the NSA, or design air bag trigger sensors for the auto industry, and things like that. (To be fair, some of that conversation was influenced by alcohol and/or marijuana and/or a very hot, humid, Pasadena summer evening making everyone loopy). I am often stupid but to be fair to me, not in this case. I was relying on his answer to my first question, can signals go through trees? to which he said No. Also I've already read lots of threads where people were trying to avoid trees in front of their dishes. And I didn't rely on frequencies of light being higher than UHF to show that satellite signals wouldn't go through trees, only to show that my "logic" that they would, that higher would go through more stuff was faulty. Without that I had nothing. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice
On Jun 4, 8:12 am, John Ross wrote:
I found it interesting reading the posts from people saying "he's a roofer, not a swamp cooler installer." I think this illustrates the differences in the way things are done in different parts of the country. I'll bet those posters live in the east where you have your heating and cooling in your basement. I've traveled and worked around the country, and I'm familiar with swamp coolers and roof mount antennae of various sorts. It's not a technical question, it's a liability question. Even if the work is fairly simple, an owner would be shooting themselves in the foot to have untrained people messing with the equipment. A contractor receives no benefit, and exposes themselves to substantially increased liability by touching other systems. Whether they were the owner's or the contractor's, the assumptions caused the trouble. The OP assumed one thing and the contractor assumed another. There's plenty of blame to go around. Out in the west, it is very common (until recently) to have the AC and heater or swamp cooler on the roof. It is also not only common, but CODE to have the roofer lift the legs of the units and put the shingles under them and then put some tar around the legs. This is the normal and legal practice! A code violation is not "illegal". It's a code violation. I'm also passably proficient in the major codes, considering that I work with them daily, and know of no requirement that specifies in detail how flashing is to be installed with regards to rooftop structures. Please cite the code you are referring to. To the OP: Is a 50 percent deposit even legal in your state? Where I live a contractor can't take more than 10 percent for a deposit. Was he even a licensed contractor? Second, did it pass city inspection? He did pull a permit, right? The majority of the country does not require permits for reroofing work. The following is fairly typical: When Do I Need a Building Permit? Common Procedures that Require a Building Permit: Above & Below Ground Swimming Pools Oil & Gas Heating Units and Tanks Contractor Licensing Plumbing Decks & Patios Public Assembly Demolition of Structures Radio & Television Disk Antennas Fences Rental Permit Fireplaces & Chimneys Retaining Walls Hot Tubs Signs Large Tool Sheds Temporary Structure Lawn Sprinkler Systems Tennis Courts New Additions & Interior Alterations Tree Removal New Homes & Buildings Use Permit Don't pay anything until the inspection and ask the inspector about the cooler. You definitely got a bad job, it's just a matter of if it was not done to code and he will have to fix it. Again, you're assuming a permit and inspections. If the roofer or OP had pulled a permit, and the work was indeed against the still-to-be- cited code, then the work would have been flagged, and the OP wouldn't be writing about the cooler's legs. It's probably safe to assume that no permit was pulled. Whatever happens, given the obvious lack of attention to detail by this guy, I would get a reputable roofer to come out and do an inspection to see if he thinks there is anything that is going to cause big problems. This shouldn't cost more than 100 bucks and is well worth it after dealing with bozos like you did (I had a similar situation and had to do the same thing). What exactly will that accomplish? The only time that an independent report would be of use is if the OP decided to sue and an unknowledgeable person, like a judge, needed an expert's report to hang their hat on. For the amount of money we're talking about, it's extremely unlikely that a lawsuit will come out of this. R |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
Haven't been reading these postings but did look in and noticed this one on satellite going through trees. You are right, they don't. I had a tree that I thought was clear and it was until it grew another 10 feet sideways and blocked the signal. Had to move the dish down the back of the garage some 20 feet to be sure. "mm" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:12:56 -0700, Tim Smith wrote: I am often stupid but to be fair to me, not in this case. I was relying on his answer to my first question, can signals go through trees? to which he said No. Also I've already read lots of threads where people were trying to avoid trees in front of their dishes. And I didn't rely on frequencies of light being higher than UHF to show that satellite signals wouldn't go through trees, only to show that my "logic" that they would, that higher would go through more stuff was faulty. Without that I had nothing. |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:02:06 -0400, PeterD wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:56:09 -0400, mm wrote: On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? Nope. Not through leaves. Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, they are microwave. Easily absorbed by water for example. The water in leaves is what makes the trees 'microwave opaque'. g Uh huh! I get it now. That's what gets hot in microwave ovens too. We got to get rid of all that water. It seems to cause a lot of trouble. Aren't there old mines in Utah or Nevada where we could put the stuff? |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 13:56:33 -0400, mm
wrote: On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:02:06 -0400, PeterD wrote: On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:56:09 -0400, mm wrote: On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:05:02 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: Having the dish within arm's length helps with snow removal. You can also more easily move it if tree growth interferes. Don't these signals go through trees? Nope. Not through leaves. Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, they are microwave. Easily absorbed by water for example. The water in leaves is what makes the trees 'microwave opaque'. g Uh huh! I get it now. That's what gets hot in microwave ovens too. We got to get rid of all that water. It seems to cause a lot of trouble. Aren't there old mines in Utah or Nevada where we could put the stuff? The number of times that I've thought of mounting a microwave oven tube on a sat dish and 'frying' the leaves on the nearest trees... Just burn a hole right through them! |
Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Get spares for repairs.
"mm" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:12:56 -0700, Tim Smith wrote: In article , mm wrote: Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF. They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees. OK. Good point. I guess his neighbor should put in transparent trees. This reminds me of a conversation I sat in on once. Some people were wondering what to do with an old junk PDP-8 computer. Person #1: We could throw it into the pond. Person #2: I wonder if it would float? ...silence for a moment, as people think about that... Someone: Well, it's smaller than a Volkswagen, and those float. Everyone: Ooh...good point! ...silence for a while.... Someone Else: A rock is smaller than a Volkswagen. What's scary about that conversation was it took place at Caltech, among people who went on to be chip designers, or build systems used by the NSA, or design air bag trigger sensors for the auto industry, and things like that. (To be fair, some of that conversation was influenced by alcohol and/or marijuana and/or a very hot, humid, Pasadena summer evening making everyone loopy). I am often stupid but to be fair to me, not in this case. I was relying on his answer to my first question, can signals go through trees? to which he said No. Also I've already read lots of threads where people were trying to avoid trees in front of their dishes. And I didn't rely on frequencies of light being higher than UHF to show that satellite signals wouldn't go through trees, only to show that my "logic" that they would, that higher would go through more stuff was faulty. Without that I had nothing. It's not an unfair question to ask. Radio waves go through trees just fine. TV reception goes through trees, |
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