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Mower engine - UPDATE
Hi all...
Some of you may recall I needed help in diagnosing my parents' Toro mower engine. The thing would start, run about one or two seconds and then die. I checked the plug, even tried several new ones, gas float and so on... Well, this weekend I took the carb apart to clean it up. I didn't find anything out of the ordnary. The passages appeared clear and the main tube running from the gas bowl into the throttle body was clear as well. I put the carb together, installed it in the engine and found the same effect. Prime the engine about 5 times, start the motor, motor would run for 1-2 seconds and die, it would not start again unless I primed it. I measured the cylinder compression to be about 90 PSI. Then I tried to choke the air intake by removing the air filter and jamming a piece of cloth to restrict the air intake. I started the motor. It ran very rough, so I slowly withdrew the cloth from the air intake. Had I pulled it out right away, the motor would die once again. After about 10-15 seconds, I was able to completely withdraw the air obstruction and the motor ran fine. Once warmed up, I could stop it and restart it without a problem.... but once cooled, I would have to go through the exact same routine of introducing a "manual choking system". Hence the question.... do these motors have some sort of a choke, or am I missing something? Is there something obvious that could be causing my problem? thanks Alex |
Mower engine - UPDATE
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Mower engine - UPDATE
No choke on a GTS engine. Common problem is the bowl supply tube (actually the bolt that holds the bowl on) gets gunked up on the bottom. Make sure the holes are clear. Same goes for the primer. I have a Personal Pace 6.5 hp electric start that I bought new 5 years ago. Let bad gas in it just one off season and the damn thing would not start. Addressed those two areas I described and it starts on the first crank after pushing the primer rapidly several times when cold otherwise no prime needed. -- Thanks for the reply I'm pretty sure that's the same Toro my parents have. It's a 6.5 with an electric start and no need to push it as it will keep pace with you. Anyhoo... I checked, and cleaned the bolt, the supply tube from the bowl is clear as well. I'm just not sure about the other little channels in that carb (there are a couple of them there). But I will take the carb apart again and try to make sure those are clear. My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it just wouldn't start. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks
ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it just wouldn't start. You HAVE put new gas in it, right? : ) Just checking. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
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Mower engine - UPDATE
On May 26, 4:54 pm, "Noozer" wrote:
My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it just wouldn't start. You HAVE put new gas in it, right? : ) Just checking. Ummmm.....welllll....... something I meant to do last week but neglected to. I guess I should try that as well. :) |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On May 26, 4:54 pm, Meat Plow wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2007 13:38:06 -0700, awiecek wrote: No choke on a GTS engine. Common problem is the bowl supply tube (actually the bolt that holds the bowl on) gets gunked up on the bottom. Make sure the holes are clear. Same goes for the primer. I have a Personal Pace 6.5 hp electric start that I bought new 5 years ago. Let bad gas in it just one off season and the damn thing would not start. Addressed those two areas I described and it starts on the first crank after pushing the primer rapidly several times when cold otherwise no prime needed. -- Thanks for the reply I'm pretty sure that's the same Toro my parents have. It's a 6.5 with an electric start and no need to push it as it will keep pace with you. Anyhoo... I checked, and cleaned the bolt, the supply tube from the bowl is clear as well. I'm just not sure about the other little channels in that carb (there are a couple of them there). But I will take the carb apart again and try to make sure those are clear. My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it just wouldn't start. I've found that it's better to hit the primer maybe 10 times or so rapidly rather than the 3 times slowly that the sticker says. Get your parents some Sta-Bil additive and have them use it all season. I do it on everything and have snow blowers, trimmers, saws, chippers, blowers, mowers. I let the Toro sit this winter without doing a thing and it started right up thanks no doubt to that fuel stabilizer. I'm sure you will figure it out. I hope so.... thanks for the advice. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On May 26, 5:05 pm, Oren wrote:
On 26 May 2007 13:38:06 -0700, wrote: I'm just not sure about the other little channels in that carb (there are a couple of them there). But I will take the carb apart again and try to make sure those are clear. How close are these ("channels") to the primer bulb; presuming, inside the carb throat? They are "tiny", right? Once cleared from (shellac/clogs/etc.) your engine should run. If you try a wire as I mentioned, don't break it off in there. -- Oren I have just the wire for that. I'll see if I can get at it again tomorrow or sometime next week... thanks |
Mower engine - UPDATE
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Mower engine - UPDATE
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Mower engine - UPDATE
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:46:04 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote: That's it, then. Gunk floating around in the old gas clogs that which you've cleaned. Sticks the float, jets, seats..... something between a gasket sucking air - who knows? Clean fuel was a great question. -- Oren ...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo.. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
wrote in message oups.com... On May 26, 4:54 pm, "Noozer" wrote: My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it just wouldn't start. You HAVE put new gas in it, right? : ) Just checking. Ummmm.....welllll....... something I meant to do last week but neglected to. I guess I should try that as well. Well, my mower ran great for about half the yard, then refused to run, like yours. I dumped the fuel into a glass jar and there's about 1/2" of water sitting at the bottom of the jar, with about five inches of fuel floating on top. Mower runs great now that I've got GOOD gas in it. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Several capsfull of injector cleaner in the fuel tank sure won't
hurt anything. Several squirts of carburetor cleaner when starting won't hurt either. -- ______________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) "Oren" wrote in message ... On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:46:04 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote: That's it, then. Gunk floating around in the old gas clogs that which you've cleaned. Sticks the float, jets, seats..... something between a gasket sucking air - who knows? Clean fuel was a great question. -- Oren ..through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo.. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On Sat, 26 May 2007 22:10:20 GMT, "Noozer" wrote:
I dumped the fuel into a glass jar and there's about 1/2" of water sitting at the bottom of the jar, with about five inches of fuel floating on top. I have a tee-shirt :-\ Mower runs great now that I've got GOOD gas in it. Imagine that! G -- Oren ...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo.. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Between the carb and the tank should be a gasket and a diaphragm membrane,
Chances are that you need to replace the membrane Like your not getting the suction to pull the fuel from the tank into the carb, you can put the fuel in the carb by primer bulb and the engine runs, right? So your problem is that your not getting fuel from tank to carb. Nothings plugged youjust don't have the vaccum Searcher |
Mower engine - UPDATE
"Meat Plow" wrote in message No choke on a GTS engine. Common problem is the bowl supply tube (actually the bolt that holds the bowl on) gets gunked up on the bottom. Make sure the holes are clear. Same goes for the primer. I have a Personal Pace 6.5 hp electric start that I bought new 5 years ago. Let bad gas in it just one off season and the damn thing would not start. Addressed those two areas I described and it starts on the first crank after pushing the primer rapidly several times when cold otherwise no prime needed. I've got one with the same problem. I've just been pushing the primer every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run right. I'll also try this and maybe other fixes suggested here and see what happens. Bob |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote: I've just been pushing the primer every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run right. It really shouldn't be necessary to do this. Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust. Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb.... -- Oren ...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo.. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
"Oren" wrote in message ... On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: I've just been pushing the primer every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run right. It really shouldn't be necessary to do this. Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust. Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb.... -- It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies, just as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say? Bob |
Mower engine - UPDATE
"Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:05:26 -0700, Bob F wrote: "Oren" wrote in message ... On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: I've just been pushing the primer every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run right. It really shouldn't be necessary to do this. Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust. Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb.... -- It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies, just as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say? Bob Either disassemble the carb and clean it exhaustively or take it to someone who can. Or buy a new carb. At some point, I will. But it's no crisis. Which still doesn't tell me what the previous poster was trying to say. Bob |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:05:26 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote: "Oren" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: I've just been pushing the primer every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run right. It really shouldn't be necessary to do this. Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust. Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb.... -- It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies, just as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say? Bob Pushing the primer bulb after the engine starts; to keep it running tells the carb needs attention... cleaned/rebuilt. -- Oren "My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes." |
Mower engine - UPDATE
"Oren" wrote in message ... On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:05:26 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: "Oren" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: I've just been pushing the primer every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run right. It really shouldn't be necessary to do this. Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust. Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb.... -- It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies, just as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say? Bob Pushing the primer bulb after the engine starts; to keep it running tells the carb needs attention... cleaned/rebuilt. Which is kind of what I meant when I said " I'll also try this and maybe other fixes suggested here and see what happens." I knew it had a problem. I was just saying that the suggestions would be useful in solving it. Bob |
Mower engine - UPDATE
That's only on B and S. He's describing a Tecumseh type carb.
With a float, and jets. Would the original poster please check to be sure there is a gasket between the carb and the motor. If it's missing the carb gasket, it will draw air after the carb. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "Shopdog" wrote in message news:BQ26i.2125$zN5.741@trndny05... : Between the carb and the tank should be a gasket and a diaphragm membrane, : Chances are that you need to replace the membrane Like your not getting the : suction to pull the fuel from the tank into the carb, you can put the fuel : in the carb by primer bulb and the engine runs, right? So your problem is : that your not getting fuel from tank to carb. Nothings plugged youjust don't : have the vaccum : : Searcher : : |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Says the motor is running lean (too little gas) for some reason.
-- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "Oren" wrote in message ... : I've just been pushing the primer : every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run : right. : : It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies, just : as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say? : : Bob : : Pushing the primer bulb after the engine starts; to keep it running : tells the carb needs attention... cleaned/rebuilt. : |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Oddly enough, oven cleaner like Easy Off strips the green junk
from inside carbs. You have to take the carb out, and put it in the laundry sink. Spray with Easy off. Wait three or four minutes. Rinse, dry. Reassemble. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. wrote in message oups.com... : : You HAVE put new gas in it, right? : : : ) : : Just checking. : : : Ummmm.....welllll....... : something I meant to do last week but neglected to. : I guess I should try that as well. : : :) : : |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Mowers, like old men, run a lot better when you drain the water
and blow out the bad gas. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "Noozer" wrote in message news:gf26i.224310$6m4.121771@pd7urf1no... : : Well, my mower ran great for about half the yard, then refused to run, like : yours. : : I dumped the fuel into a glass jar and there's about 1/2" of water sitting : at the bottom of the jar, with about five inches of fuel floating on top. : : Mower runs great now that I've got GOOD gas in it. : : |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Oh, OK I wasn't sure, but since that is the same issue that I am having with
mine, I figured to go with that. Searcher |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:16:55 GMT, "Shopdog" graced
this newsgroup with: Oh, OK I wasn't sure, but since that is the same issue that I am having with mine, I figured to go with that. Searcher what are you talking about? You need to leave *some* part of the previous post for your reply to make any sense whatsoever. |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On Sun, 27 May 2007 22:36:43 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Mowers, like old men, run a lot better when you drain the water and blow out the bad gas. Do not do this in a space suit! :-)) -- Oren "I don't have anything against work. I just figure, why deprive somebody who really loves it." |
Mower engine - UPDATE
On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:39:42 -0700, Oren graced
this newsgroup with: On Sun, 27 May 2007 22:36:43 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Mowers, like old men, run a lot better when you drain the water and blow out the bad gas. Do not do this in a space suit! :-)) ROFLAO!!! |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. Your help is
greatly appreciated. I was finally able to get at it again today and I'm happy to report that everything is fine now. The motor runs like a charm and it starts on the first pull. Here is what I did: took the carb apart once again. This time I meticulously cleaned all little channels and orifices. Blew with compressed air to make sure all passages are fine. I dumped out the old gas, some of which spilled on the garage floor. It sat there for quite a while and didn't evaporate. So just out of curiosity, I spilled a small amount of fresh gas to see if it evaporates first..... I immediately noticed the difference in consistency between the two fluids. The old stuff was thicker than the new. It has been about four hours since I did that and there are still remnants of the old gas on the floor, while the fresh has since evaporated. I'm not into gasoline sniffing but I noticed a difference in smell between the two as well. I believe that was my initial problem from the get go. While I did not notice any clogging in the carburetor, it's quite possible that the engine had trouble sucking the old gas out of the bowl, since it was so thick (just a hypothesis). So it looks like I will have to introduce my brother to a gas stabilizer and make sure he uses it before storing the mower. Thanks again to all. Alex |
Mower engine - UPDATE
wrote in message oups.com... Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. Your help is greatly appreciated. I was finally able to get at it again today and I'm happy to report that everything is fine now. The motor runs like a charm and it starts on the first pull. Here is what I did: took the carb apart once again. This time I meticulously cleaned all little channels and orifices. Blew with compressed air to make sure all passages are fine. I dumped out the old gas, some of which spilled on the garage floor. It sat there for quite a while and didn't evaporate. So just out of curiosity, I spilled a small amount of fresh gas to see if it evaporates first..... I immediately noticed the difference in consistency between the two fluids. The old stuff was thicker than the new. It has been about four hours since I did that and there are still remnants of the old gas on the floor, while the fresh has since evaporated. I'm not into gasoline sniffing but I noticed a difference in smell between the two as well. I believe that was my initial problem from the get go. While I did not notice any clogging in the carburetor, it's quite possible that the engine had trouble sucking the old gas out of the bowl, since it was so thick (just a hypothesis). That gas was probably your entire problem. It would be interesting to try to burn it. So it looks like I will have to introduce my brother to a gas stabilizer and make sure he uses it before storing the mower. Or just run it dry at the end of the season. Choke it or push the primer as it runs dry to keep it running and burn off as much gas as possible. Bob |
Mower engine - UPDATE
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Mower engine - UPDATE
wrote in message oups.com... Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. Your help is greatly appreciated. I was finally able to get at it again today and I'm happy to report that everything is fine now. The motor runs like a charm and it starts on the first pull. Here is what I did: took the carb apart once again. This time I meticulously cleaned all little channels and orifices. Blew with compressed air to make sure all passages are fine. I dumped out the old gas, some of which spilled on the garage floor. It sat there for quite a while and didn't evaporate. So just out of curiosity, I spilled a small amount of fresh gas to see if it evaporates first..... I immediately noticed the difference in consistency between the two fluids. The old stuff was thicker than the new. It has been about four hours since I did that and there are still remnants of the old gas on the floor, while the fresh has since evaporated. I'm not into gasoline sniffing but I noticed a difference in smell between the two as well. I believe that was my initial problem from the get go. While I did not notice any clogging in the carburetor, it's quite possible that the engine had trouble sucking the old gas out of the bowl, since it was so thick (just a hypothesis). So it looks like I will have to introduce my brother to a gas stabilizer and make sure he uses it before storing the mower. Thanks again to all. Alex Even with a good carburetor, stale fuel is a very common cause of failure to start or poor running. Unless I know it is fresh, dumping the old fuel is one of the first things I do when troubleshooting. Don Young |
Mower engine - UPDATE
Once again, thanks to all of you for the suggestions.
That being said, I have an old boat motor that did the exact same thing to me last year. I could not figure out what was wrong with it and it's quite possible we're looking at the same issue. Thanks again you guys. Alex |
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