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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Hi all...

Some of you may recall I needed help in diagnosing my parents' Toro
mower engine.
The thing would start, run about one or two seconds and then die. I
checked the plug, even tried several new ones, gas float and so on...
Well, this weekend I took the carb apart to clean it up. I didn't find
anything out of the ordnary. The passages appeared clear and the main
tube running from the gas bowl into the throttle body was clear as
well.

I put the carb together, installed it in the engine and found the same
effect. Prime the engine about 5 times, start the motor, motor would
run for 1-2 seconds and die, it would not start again unless I primed
it.

I measured the cylinder compression to be about 90 PSI.

Then I tried to choke the air intake by removing the air filter and
jamming a piece of cloth to restrict the air intake.
I started the motor. It ran very rough, so I slowly withdrew the cloth
from the air intake. Had I pulled it out right away, the motor would
die once again.
After about 10-15 seconds, I was able to completely withdraw the air
obstruction and the motor ran fine. Once warmed up, I could stop it
and restart it without a problem.... but once cooled, I would have to
go through the exact same routine of introducing a "manual choking
system".

Hence the question.... do these motors have some sort of a choke, or
am I missing something? Is there something obvious that could be
causing my problem?

thanks
Alex

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Default Mower engine - UPDATE


No choke on a GTS engine. Common problem is the bowl supply tube (actually
the bolt that holds the bowl on) gets gunked up on the bottom. Make sure
the holes are clear. Same goes for the primer. I have a Personal Pace 6.5
hp electric start that I bought new 5 years ago. Let bad gas in it just
one off season and the damn thing would not start. Addressed those two
areas I described and it starts on the first crank after pushing the
primer rapidly several times when cold otherwise no prime needed.

--

Thanks for the reply

I'm pretty sure that's the same Toro my parents have. It's a 6.5 with
an electric start and no need to push it as it will keep pace with
you.
Anyhoo... I checked, and cleaned the bolt, the supply tube from the
bowl is clear as well.
I'm just not sure about the other little channels in that carb (there
are a couple of them there). But I will take the carb apart again and
try to make sure those are clear.
My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks
ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it
just wouldn't start.


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks
ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it
just wouldn't start.


You HAVE put new gas in it, right?

: )

Just checking.


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On May 26, 4:54 pm, "Noozer" wrote:
My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks
ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it
just wouldn't start.


You HAVE put new gas in it, right?

: )

Just checking.



Ummmm.....welllll.......
something I meant to do last week but neglected to.
I guess I should try that as well.




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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On May 26, 4:54 pm, Meat Plow wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2007 13:38:06 -0700, awiecek wrote:

No choke on a GTS engine. Common problem is the bowl supply tube (actually
the bolt that holds the bowl on) gets gunked up on the bottom. Make sure
the holes are clear. Same goes for the primer. I have a Personal Pace 6.5
hp electric start that I bought new 5 years ago. Let bad gas in it just
one off season and the damn thing would not start. Addressed those two
areas I described and it starts on the first crank after pushing the
primer rapidly several times when cold otherwise no prime needed.


--

Thanks for the reply


I'm pretty sure that's the same Toro my parents have. It's a 6.5 with
an electric start and no need to push it as it will keep pace with
you.
Anyhoo... I checked, and cleaned the bolt, the supply tube from the
bowl is clear as well.
I'm just not sure about the other little channels in that carb (there
are a couple of them there). But I will take the carb apart again and
try to make sure those are clear.
My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks
ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it
just wouldn't start.


I've found that it's better to hit the primer maybe 10 times or so rapidly
rather than the 3 times slowly that the sticker says. Get your parents
some Sta-Bil additive and have them use it all season. I do it on
everything and have snow blowers, trimmers, saws, chippers, blowers,
mowers. I let the Toro sit this winter without doing a thing and it
started right up thanks no doubt to that fuel stabilizer.

I'm sure you will figure it out.


I hope so.... thanks for the advice.

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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On May 26, 5:05 pm, Oren wrote:
On 26 May 2007 13:38:06 -0700, wrote:

I'm just not sure about the other little channels in that carb (there
are a couple of them there). But I will take the carb apart again and
try to make sure those are clear.


How close are these ("channels") to the primer bulb; presuming,
inside the carb throat? They are "tiny", right? Once cleared from
(shellac/clogs/etc.) your engine should run.

If you try a wire as I mentioned, don't break it off in there.

--
Oren


I have just the wire for that.
I'll see if I can get at it again tomorrow or sometime next week...

thanks


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:46:04 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:
That's it, then. Gunk floating around in the old gas clogs that which you've
cleaned.


Sticks the float, jets, seats..... something between a gasket sucking
air - who knows?

Clean fuel was a great question.

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..
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wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 26, 4:54 pm, "Noozer" wrote:
My parents kept the gas in it since last year. It ran ok about 3 weeks
ago but then they tried to cut the grass the following week and it
just wouldn't start.


You HAVE put new gas in it, right?

: )

Just checking.



Ummmm.....welllll.......
something I meant to do last week but neglected to.
I guess I should try that as well.


Well, my mower ran great for about half the yard, then refused to run, like
yours.

I dumped the fuel into a glass jar and there's about 1/2" of water sitting
at the bottom of the jar, with about five inches of fuel floating on top.

Mower runs great now that I've got GOOD gas in it.


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Several capsfull of injector cleaner in the fuel tank sure won't
hurt anything. Several squirts of carburetor cleaner when
starting won't hurt either.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:46:04 -0500, "HeyBub"

wrote:
That's it, then. Gunk floating around in the old gas clogs that
which you've
cleaned.


Sticks the float, jets, seats..... something between a gasket
sucking
air - who knows?

Clean fuel was a great question.

--
Oren

..through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the
configuration in the photo..



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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On Sat, 26 May 2007 22:10:20 GMT, "Noozer" wrote:
I dumped the fuel into a glass jar and there's about 1/2" of water sitting
at the bottom of the jar, with about five inches of fuel floating on top.


I have a tee-shirt :-\

Mower runs great now that I've got GOOD gas in it.


Imagine that! G


--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..
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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Between the carb and the tank should be a gasket and a diaphragm membrane,
Chances are that you need to replace the membrane Like your not getting the
suction to pull the fuel from the tank into the carb, you can put the fuel
in the carb by primer bulb and the engine runs, right? So your problem is
that your not getting fuel from tank to carb. Nothings plugged youjust don't
have the vaccum

Searcher




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Default Mower engine - UPDATE


"Meat Plow" wrote in message

No choke on a GTS engine. Common problem is the bowl supply tube
(actually
the bolt that holds the bowl on) gets gunked up on the bottom. Make
sure
the holes are clear. Same goes for the primer. I have a Personal
Pace 6.5
hp electric start that I bought new 5 years ago. Let bad gas in it
just
one off season and the damn thing would not start. Addressed those
two
areas I described and it starts on the first crank after pushing the
primer rapidly several times when cold otherwise no prime needed.


I've got one with the same problem. I've just been pushing the primer
every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run
right. I'll also try this and maybe other fixes suggested here and see
what happens.

Bob


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've just been pushing the primer
every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run
right.


It really shouldn't be necessary to do this.

Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust.

Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb....
--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..
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Default Mower engine - UPDATE


"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've just been pushing the primer
every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run
right.


It really shouldn't be necessary to do this.

Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust.

Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb....
--


It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies, just
as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say?

Bob


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:05:26 -0700, Bob F wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've just been pushing the primer
every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run
right.

It really shouldn't be necessary to do this.

Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust.

Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb....
--


It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies,
just
as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say?

Bob


Either disassemble the carb and clean it exhaustively or take it to
someone who can. Or buy a new carb.


At some point, I will. But it's no crisis.

Which still doesn't tell me what the previous poster was trying to
say.

Bob


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:05:26 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've just been pushing the primer
every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run
right.


It really shouldn't be necessary to do this.

Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust.

Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb....
--


It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies, just
as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say?

Bob


Pushing the primer bulb after the engine starts; to keep it running
tells the carb needs attention... cleaned/rebuilt.


--
Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE


"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:05:26 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:12:21 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've just been pushing the primer
every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough to run
right.

It really shouldn't be necessary to do this.

Given this engine needs intake, compression, power and exhaust.

Think air and fuel - without a primer bulb....
--


It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine dies,
just
as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say?

Bob


Pushing the primer bulb after the engine starts; to keep it running
tells the carb needs attention... cleaned/rebuilt.


Which is kind of what I meant when I said " I'll also try this and
maybe other fixes suggested here and see what happens."

I knew it had a problem. I was just saying that the suggestions would
be useful in solving it.

Bob


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

That's only on B and S. He's describing a Tecumseh type carb.
With a float, and jets.

Would the original poster please check to be sure there is a
gasket between the carb and the motor. If it's missing the carb
gasket, it will draw air after the carb.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Shopdog" wrote in message
news:BQ26i.2125$zN5.741@trndny05...
: Between the carb and the tank should be a gasket and a
diaphragm membrane,
: Chances are that you need to replace the membrane Like your not
getting the
: suction to pull the fuel from the tank into the carb, you can
put the fuel
: in the carb by primer bulb and the engine runs, right? So your
problem is
: that your not getting fuel from tank to carb. Nothings plugged
youjust don't
: have the vaccum
:
: Searcher
:
:


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Says the motor is running lean (too little gas) for some reason.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Oren" wrote in message
...
: I've just been pushing the primer
: every few seconds after starting untill it warms up enough
to run
: right.
:
: It shouldn't be necessary, but if I don't do it the engine
dies, just
: as the O.P. described. What exactly are you trying to say?
:
: Bob
:
: Pushing the primer bulb after the engine starts; to keep it
running
: tells the carb needs attention... cleaned/rebuilt.
:


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Oddly enough, oven cleaner like Easy Off strips the green junk
from inside carbs. You have to take the carb out, and put it in
the laundry sink. Spray with Easy off. Wait three or four
minutes. Rinse, dry. Reassemble.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
oups.com...
:
: You HAVE put new gas in it, right?
:
: : )
:
: Just checking.
:
:
: Ummmm.....welllll.......
: something I meant to do last week but neglected to.
: I guess I should try that as well.
:
:
:
:


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Mowers, like old men, run a lot better when you drain the water
and blow out the bad gas.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Noozer" wrote in message
news:gf26i.224310$6m4.121771@pd7urf1no...
:
: Well, my mower ran great for about half the yard, then refused
to run, like
: yours.
:
: I dumped the fuel into a glass jar and there's about 1/2" of
water sitting
: at the bottom of the jar, with about five inches of fuel
floating on top.
:
: Mower runs great now that I've got GOOD gas in it.
:
:




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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Oh, OK I wasn't sure, but since that is the same issue that I am having with
mine, I figured to go with that.

Searcher


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:16:55 GMT, "Shopdog" graced
this newsgroup with:

Oh, OK I wasn't sure, but since that is the same issue that I am having with
mine, I figured to go with that.

Searcher



what are you talking about? You need to leave *some* part of the
previous post for your reply to make any sense whatsoever.

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On Sun, 27 May 2007 22:36:43 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Mowers, like old men, run a lot better when you drain the water
and blow out the bad gas.


Do not do this in a space suit! :-))
--
Oren

"I don't have anything against work. I just figure, why deprive somebody who really loves it."
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On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:39:42 -0700, Oren graced
this newsgroup with:

On Sun, 27 May 2007 22:36:43 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Mowers, like old men, run a lot better when you drain the water
and blow out the bad gas.


Do not do this in a space suit! :-))



ROFLAO!!!
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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. Your help is
greatly appreciated.

I was finally able to get at it again today and I'm happy to report
that everything is fine now.
The motor runs like a charm and it starts on the first pull. Here is
what I did:

took the carb apart once again. This time I meticulously cleaned all
little channels and orifices. Blew with compressed air to make sure
all passages are fine.
I dumped out the old gas, some of which spilled on the garage floor.
It sat there for quite a while and didn't evaporate. So just out of
curiosity, I spilled a small amount of fresh gas to see if it
evaporates first..... I immediately noticed the difference in
consistency between the two fluids. The old stuff was thicker than the
new.
It has been about four hours since I did that and there are still
remnants of the old gas on the floor, while the fresh has since
evaporated.

I'm not into gasoline sniffing but I noticed a difference in smell
between the two as well.

I believe that was my initial problem from the get go. While I did not
notice any clogging in the carburetor, it's quite possible that the
engine had trouble sucking the old gas out of the bowl, since it was
so thick (just a hypothesis).

So it looks like I will have to introduce my brother to a gas
stabilizer and make sure he uses it before storing the mower.

Thanks again to all.

Alex



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Default Mower engine - UPDATE


wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. Your help
is
greatly appreciated.

I was finally able to get at it again today and I'm happy to report
that everything is fine now.
The motor runs like a charm and it starts on the first pull. Here is
what I did:

took the carb apart once again. This time I meticulously cleaned all
little channels and orifices. Blew with compressed air to make sure
all passages are fine.
I dumped out the old gas, some of which spilled on the garage floor.
It sat there for quite a while and didn't evaporate. So just out of
curiosity, I spilled a small amount of fresh gas to see if it
evaporates first..... I immediately noticed the difference in
consistency between the two fluids. The old stuff was thicker than
the
new.
It has been about four hours since I did that and there are still
remnants of the old gas on the floor, while the fresh has since
evaporated.

I'm not into gasoline sniffing but I noticed a difference in smell
between the two as well.

I believe that was my initial problem from the get go. While I did
not
notice any clogging in the carburetor, it's quite possible that the
engine had trouble sucking the old gas out of the bowl, since it was
so thick (just a hypothesis).


That gas was probably your entire problem. It would be interesting to
try to burn it.

So it looks like I will have to introduce my brother to a gas
stabilizer and make sure he uses it before storing the mower.


Or just run it dry at the end of the season. Choke it or push the
primer as it runs dry to keep it running and burn off as much gas as
possible.

Bob





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On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:56:05 -0700, wrote:

took the carb apart once again. This time I meticulously cleaned all
little channels and orifices. Blew with compressed air to make sure
all passages are fine.


Perfect.

I dumped out the old gas, some of which spilled on the garage floor.
It sat there for quite a while and didn't evaporate. So just out of
curiosity, I spilled a small amount of fresh gas to see if it
evaporates first..... I immediately noticed the difference in
consistency between the two fluids. The old stuff was thicker than the
new.
It has been about four hours since I did that and there are still
remnants of the old gas on the floor, while the fresh has since
evaporated.

I'm not into gasoline sniffing but I noticed a difference in smell
between the two as well.

I believe that was my initial problem from the get go. While I did not
notice any clogging in the carburetor, it's quite possible that the
engine had trouble sucking the old gas out of the bowl, since it was
so thick (just a hypothesis).


I believe the orifices in the carb throat were "shellacked" over time
with the bad gas and cleaning them was the best method. They needed to
be cleared for air/fuel mixture.

I use a tiny stainless wire, but a carb cleaner solvent works well
when the carb can be soaked over night. The solvent can has a basket
for parts (auto store)...

Good job...

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..
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Default Mower engine - UPDATE


wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. Your help is
greatly appreciated.

I was finally able to get at it again today and I'm happy to report
that everything is fine now.
The motor runs like a charm and it starts on the first pull. Here is
what I did:

took the carb apart once again. This time I meticulously cleaned all
little channels and orifices. Blew with compressed air to make sure
all passages are fine.
I dumped out the old gas, some of which spilled on the garage floor.
It sat there for quite a while and didn't evaporate. So just out of
curiosity, I spilled a small amount of fresh gas to see if it
evaporates first..... I immediately noticed the difference in
consistency between the two fluids. The old stuff was thicker than the
new.
It has been about four hours since I did that and there are still
remnants of the old gas on the floor, while the fresh has since
evaporated.

I'm not into gasoline sniffing but I noticed a difference in smell
between the two as well.

I believe that was my initial problem from the get go. While I did not
notice any clogging in the carburetor, it's quite possible that the
engine had trouble sucking the old gas out of the bowl, since it was
so thick (just a hypothesis).

So it looks like I will have to introduce my brother to a gas
stabilizer and make sure he uses it before storing the mower.

Thanks again to all.

Alex

Even with a good carburetor, stale fuel is a very common cause of failure to
start or poor running. Unless I know it is fresh, dumping the old fuel is
one of the first things I do when troubleshooting.

Don Young


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Default Mower engine - UPDATE

Once again, thanks to all of you for the suggestions.

That being said, I have an old boat motor that did the exact same
thing to me last year. I could not figure out what was wrong with it
and it's quite possible we're looking at the same issue.

Thanks again you guys.

Alex

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