I was just about to ask about one of the junction boxes I have in my garage.
See the electrician though it was a good idea to run the Romex on top of the
drywall and then splice it with another wire within a surface mounted
junction box. I was honestly thinking the work was crap and then considered
the task of burying the box in the wall so that it wasn't exposed.

Then I read that in fact the junction boxes have to be exposed and in fact
the electrician may have done perfectly to code work. Well aside from the
extremely long Romex he left flopping around in the wall and the handle of
Romex that he kinked into the box, and the fact he didn't ground a metal box
containing wire splices. I'd very much like to get those wires back into
the wall, but since the box needs to be exposed for inspection and work, is
it acceptable to only have the lid of the box exposed? I know they sell
blank cover plates so something like that must be done.

Also when I trim the wires to put them back into the wall, how much slack is
acceptable assuming that in the future I may have to do other work? I'm
thinking 6 inches of romex plus slack with unsheathed wires in the box
itself.

Basically I'm cleaning up the "work" done when they installed my gas furnace
in the early 80's. Basically they removed the oil furnace in the garage
leaving the wire, installed the gas furnace, ran the connection wire 25 feet
to the garage and punched through 2 inches of concrete and 6 inches of sill
plate, spliced it to the old oil furnace connection, which then runs 25 feet
to the breaker box. All I can think of is that the HVAC installer must have
owned stock in a copper mine and the previous owner was deathly afraid of
drywall work.

Eigenvector wrote:
I was just about to ask about one of the junction boxes I have in my garage.
See the electrician though it was a good idea to run the Romex on top of the
drywall and then splice it with another wire within a surface mounted
junction box. I was honestly thinking the work was crap and then considered
the task of burying the box in the wall so that it wasn't exposed.

Then I read that in fact the junction boxes have to be exposed and in fact
the electrician may have done perfectly to code work. Well aside from the
extremely long Romex he left flopping around in the wall and the handle of
Romex that he kinked into the box, and the fact he didn't ground a metal box
containing wire splices. I'd very much like to get those wires back into
the wall, but since the box needs to be exposed for inspection and work, is
it acceptable to only have the lid of the box exposed?

Yes.

Also when I trim the wires to put them back into the wall, how much slack is
acceptable assuming that in the future I may have to do other work? I'm
thinking 6 inches of romex plus slack with unsheathed wires in the box
itself.

The Romex is supposed to be attached to the framing within, IIRC, 9"
of the box. There's no benefit to having lots of excess wiring in the
wall or in the box. Since it's new wiring, I wouldn't be worried
about it being too short as it's unlikely that you'll need to trim
back the wires to freshen up the outlet in your lifetime.

Basically I'm cleaning up the "work" done when they installed my gas furnace
in the early 80's. Basically they removed the oil furnace in the garage
leaving the wire, installed the gas furnace, ran the connection wire 25 feet
to the garage and punched through 2 inches of concrete and 6 inches of sill
plate, spliced it to the old oil furnace connection, which then runs 25 feet
to the breaker box. All I can think of is that the HVAC installer must have
owned stock in a copper mine and the previous owner was deathly afraid of
drywall work.

Copper used to be a lot cheaper than it is now. Can't tell from your
description, but the labor involved surely outweighed the cost of the
copper, and that most likely dictated the installation method. If it
was a T&M job, reverse what I just said.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
Eigenvector wrote:
I was just about to ask about one of the junction boxes I have in my
garage.
See the electrician though it was a good idea to run the Romex on top of
the
drywall and then splice it with another wire within a surface mounted
junction box. I was honestly thinking the work was crap and then
considered
the task of burying the box in the wall so that it wasn't exposed.

Then I read that in fact the junction boxes have to be exposed and in
fact
the electrician may have done perfectly to code work. Well aside from
the
extremely long Romex he left flopping around in the wall and the handle
of
Romex that he kinked into the box, and the fact he didn't ground a metal
box
containing wire splices. I'd very much like to get those wires back into
the wall, but since the box needs to be exposed for inspection and work,
is
it acceptable to only have the lid of the box exposed?

Yes.

I was thinking about this some more as I continued to uncover the rest of
the drywall and when you think about it outlet boxes, light boxes, switch
boxes are all basically junction boxes - so it makes sense that they would
be allowed to only have a cover plate exposed.


Also when I trim the wires to put them back into the wall, how much slack
is
acceptable assuming that in the future I may have to do other work? I'm
thinking 6 inches of romex plus slack with unsheathed wires in the box
itself.

The Romex is supposed to be attached to the framing within, IIRC, 9"
of the box. There's no benefit to having lots of excess wiring in the
wall or in the box. Since it's new wiring, I wouldn't be worried
about it being too short as it's unlikely that you'll need to trim
back the wires to freshen up the outlet in your lifetime.

Hmm, I guess that was my frustration speaking. Past experiences with the
outlets in this house, with the exception of one very nicely done 20 A in
the garage, the outlets only give you absolute minimum slack to pull the
outlet out of the box, never mind cleaning the wires and installing a new
one.

I'll keep it tidy then.


Basically I'm cleaning up the "work" done when they installed my gas
furnace
in the early 80's. Basically they removed the oil furnace in the garage
leaving the wire, installed the gas furnace, ran the connection wire 25
feet
to the garage and punched through 2 inches of concrete and 6 inches of
sill
plate, spliced it to the old oil furnace connection, which then runs 25
feet
to the breaker box. All I can think of is that the HVAC installer must
have
owned stock in a copper mine and the previous owner was deathly afraid of
drywall work.

Copper used to be a lot cheaper than it is now. Can't tell from your
description, but the labor involved surely outweighed the cost of the
copper, and that most likely dictated the installation method. If it
was a T&M job, reverse what I just said.

R

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
Eigenvector wrote:
I was just about to ask about one of the junction boxes I have in my
garage.
See the electrician though it was a good idea to run the Romex on top
of
the
drywall and then splice it with another wire within a surface mounted
junction box. I was honestly thinking the work was crap and then
considered
the task of burying the box in the wall so that it wasn't exposed.

Then I read that in fact the junction boxes have to be exposed and in
fact
the electrician may have done perfectly to code work. Well aside from
the
extremely long Romex he left flopping around in the wall and the handle
of
Romex that he kinked into the box, and the fact he didn't ground a
metal
box
containing wire splices. I'd very much like to get those wires back
into
the wall, but since the box needs to be exposed for inspection and
work,
is
it acceptable to only have the lid of the box exposed?

Yes.

I was thinking about this some more as I continued to uncover the rest of
the drywall and when you think about it outlet boxes, light boxes, switch
boxes are all basically junction boxes - so it makes sense that they would
be allowed to only have a cover plate exposed.


Also when I trim the wires to put them back into the wall, how much
slack
is
acceptable assuming that in the future I may have to do other work?
I'm
thinking 6 inches of romex plus slack with unsheathed wires in the box
itself.

The Romex is supposed to be attached to the framing within, IIRC, 9"
of the box. There's no benefit to having lots of excess wiring in the
wall or in the box. Since it's new wiring, I wouldn't be worried
about it being too short as it's unlikely that you'll need to trim
back the wires to freshen up the outlet in your lifetime.

Hmm, I guess that was my frustration speaking. Past experiences with the
outlets in this house, with the exception of one very nicely done 20 A in
the garage, the outlets only give you absolute minimum slack to pull the
outlet out of the box, never mind cleaning the wires and installing a new
one.

I'll keep it tidy then.



The NEC requires a minimum length of 3" past the edge of the box. I prefer
to use deep boxes and have more slack than minimum. It is easier to attach
devices to longer wires.





Basically I'm cleaning up the "work" done when they installed my gas
furnace
in the early 80's. Basically they removed the oil furnace in the
garage
leaving the wire, installed the gas furnace, ran the connection wire 25
feet
to the garage and punched through 2 inches of concrete and 6 inches of
sill
plate, spliced it to the old oil furnace connection, which then runs 25
feet
to the breaker box. All I can think of is that the HVAC installer must
have
owned stock in a copper mine and the previous owner was deathly afraid
of
drywall work.

Copper used to be a lot cheaper than it is now. Can't tell from your
description, but the labor involved surely outweighed the cost of the
copper, and that most likely dictated the installation method. If it
was a T&M job, reverse what I just said.

R