Myth: Heat Rises
 

When it comes to getting the most effective insulation in place, not
only for your dream home, but for your ice-fishing shanty out on the
lake, your doghouse, your out-house, and that cat-house down by the
swamp and the railroad track where you been spending most of your
happy time anyway--it pays to take a few public-spirited things into
consideration . . .

As any fool would seem to know, hot air rises--and Lawd knows there be
plenty enough of it round these here cyber-parts to show the proof of
that. But not every fool is aware of the fact that heat and hot air
are two different things.

Heat is infra-red radiation, and as anyone familiar with the result of
infra-red photography can see, heat is light; it occupies a position
on the spectrum with all the other electro-magnetic wave-forms. In
view of this fact, it would be understood by at least a few half-way
perceptive fools that heat, as infra-red radiation does not require
air, water, cast iron or anything else to be propagated through space.

I came to be thinking on these matters as the result of a major
disappointment over some Styrofoam insulation I installed this year
under the floor of the master bedroom. Though the rest of the house is
heated by a cast iron wood stove, that bedroom is situated such that
not much heat migrates back to that part of the house, so we've been
heating that room with an electric space heater. The goal is to be
able to use that more sparingly.

Now as any fool knows, even a fool hates to be made a fool of,
especially by something like a 50 buck expenditure on foam insulation
that doesn't seem to be making the difference. It still gets very cold
down there near the floor--while most strangely, beneath that floor it
stays fairly warm all the time. It's not a basement but a cement block
walled "crawl space" running from a height at the entrance of about 5
feet where the house is built up over the slope of the ground--and
that's where the master bedroom is.

Some fools will insist that since the earth radiates warmth, this
accounts for all that warm air under the house in such an enclosed
space. If this were the case, then the same would hold true for that
garage size tool shed out there in the back yard--but it doesn't.
It's just so cold inside the shed as it is outside--and its built over
the same ground.

I kept saying to my sweet thing, "Sweet thing, it doesn't stand to
common sense--it's almost as if the heat from the house is going
*down* through the floor into that space under the house!" We spent a
lot of money insulating that bedroom this year, including the bucks we
put down for those R-19 fiber-glass batts that are now installed above
the ceiling. Something plainly cock-eyed is going on here!

Enter the wood-stove . . .

Due to space considerations peculiar to our house, we had to install
the wood-stove a lot closer to the wall than is generally considered
safe. At closest proximity, a ridge of hot cast-iron is only 4 inches
from the painted dry-wall. To avoid danger of fire, I at first
installed a galvanized sheet metal shield behind the stove. On the
wall, it extended so high as the stove-pipe which stands too close as
well, about 7 inches.

I fired up the stove to see how this would work out. As any simple
fool such as myself would suppose; for safety's sake, it would be good
to provide plenty of buffer between the stove and the wall, so for the
shield, I had covered both sides of a three foot square sheet of
plywood to do the job. When the stove was good and hot, I put my hand
on that sheet metal, to find that it was cool to the touch--but the
air in front of it was highly heated. Fool that I am, I stood there
going, "Hot Damn! What is this?"

Not even the hot air flowing over the reflective face of that
galvanized sheet-steel was serving to warm it up. And what manner of
fool would it take not to notice the difference between the warmth of
the wall behind the stove pipe at its seven-inch distance, and the
reflective shield at 4 inches? Something started to penetrate the dim
shield of false knowledge that was installed in my head at school.

When it comes to infra-red radiation of heat, there is no up, down or
sideways about it, it will radiate in any direction as heat,
completely independent of any currents of hot and cold air, gravity or
anything else. Some of the heat radiating from that wood-stove does
of course serve to warm up the air, some goes into the furniture and
into the dry-wall. And that still posed a fire-hazard back there
behind the stove pipe.

I got an idea, quite an unconventional one, but figured what the hell,
it's only for the duration of the winter months, and not really giving
a hot fart what anybody might think of it anyway, I went ahead and
tried another experiment: I took a roll of my wife's ordinary
aluminum foil and stapled that to the wall behind the stove pipe.
Again, it stayed cool to the touch. Well, hot doggies! I removed
that bulky sheet-steel and plywood shield and stapled more aluminum to
the wall as a replacement, so that now runs from floor to ceiling
behind the stove--and it never takes on the least amount of heat.

That's what a fool like me has decided to call "insulation". And now,
as I turn my mind back to the problem of that cold air in the region
near the floor in the bedroom, I come to realize a few things, the
main one being this: forget about what *hot air* does, as it always
goes up in its motion. Forget about air! Infra-red radiation, heat as
such, as waves or rays moves independent of the air, it goes down, it
goes up, and it goes sideways, but the main direction it's going to
move is toward any source of cold that would be drawing it.

Now don't ask a fool like me to explain just how or why a region of
lesser heat or 'cold' would act as a sort of magnet for infra-red
radiation. I am too foolish to have figured that out yet. I just
know from empirical observation of the facts from the master bedroom
that this is the case--from my cold bare feet, I am one fool who knows
what he's talking about here.

Standard home insulation in the form of fiberglass rolls and batts is
there primarily to interfere with, to block a movement of air--not
radiation. It can't do a simple fool thing about the propagation of
infra-red heat rays. That kind of insulation can trap air--but to
what purpose? How much air can be found to move through a three-
quarter inch thick sheet of tightly-packed gypsum wall-board?

Not enough to talk about. Heat radiation from the fire in a stove
will radiate to the air and into the walls, and from the air into the
walls. The heated dry-wall will radiate its heat into the fiber-glass
batting. All the while, cold air on the outside of the house is
drawing heat from the siding, the sheathing and the fiber-glass, and
there is nothing to stop that fiberglass from radiating its store of
infra-red energy, to heat the outside world.

So what earthly good, one well might wonder, is that fiberglass
insulation at all? If its purpose is to stop a flow of air, there are
certainly better, more solid materials suited to do that. If the idea
is to trap air and not just block it, Styrofoam would be the better
candidate because the structure is comprised of closed, impermeable
cells.

So, I am one fool whose mind is totally made up when it soon comes to
the job of building my own home on the land we are soon to buy. I
will not use fiberglass. I will use just two materials: Styrofoam
and aluminum foil.

If I can find the time for it this winter yet, I will go back down
there beneath the bedroom and staple to the face of all that brand new
blue Styrofoam, a single layer of Reynolds Wrap--and then we'll see
just how much of a fool a fool can be, when it comes to the
understanding that heat does not "rise", only hot air does that.
Heat, like all light can be efficiently reflected, and therefore
trapped to be preserved, kept from being drawn away toward any
direction of lesser heat, for example down in the basement, or in the
crawl-space beneath your average damned fool's home.

Heat is light, and like any other wave-length of light, it can be
reflected with very little loss of energy into the reflecting medium.
Like any other kind of light, heat goes right through glass. While
glass can stop the flow of heated air, it will at the same time rob
the air of its heat energy, due to the very low "specific heat" of
glass as a medium (among the coldest in the room) and being
transparent, infra-red radiation like any other sort of light, will
pass right through the glass--without heating the glass itself, same
as happens with foil reflection.

There is not much in a carpet or the boards of a floor to impede the
light that propagates at the infra-red end of the spectrum. True, some
of the heat energy will be dissipated into the carpet and flooring,
bringing heat into those media to be trapped and ever so inefficiently
stored. Wood and polyester fabric, despite whatever quantity of
silicates, are not glass and will not pass the infra-red energy on
without some appreciable loss: there will be molecules of elements in
the wood and in the organic compounds of the carpet that will absorb
and/or reflect heat energy, while the silicates (and whatever other
compounds I am too foolish to know about) will, like glass, allow the
heat radiation to pass through the carpet and the wood.

In short, infra-red radiation, as the form of light energy known as
"heat", does not find an impermeable barrier in wood and carpet, and
that is why it stays warm under my house in the winter. Heat can fall
right through your floor just as easily as it can rise through your
ceiling.

Have you ever heard of anything so foolish?
--
Mackie
http://vignettes-mackie.blogspot.com/
"Who Did the Dahlia?"

Myth: Heat Rises
 

"J Seymour MacNicely" writes:

Now don't ask a fool like me to explain just how or why a region of
lesser heat or 'cold' would act as a sort of magnet for infra-red
radiation. I am too foolish to have figured that out yet. I just
know from empirical observation of the facts from the master bedroom
that this is the case--from my cold bare feet, I am one fool who knows
what he's talking about here.

You can't explain this magnet effect because it doesn't exist.

Have you ever heard of anything so foolish?

Sure, on the news every day.

Want to get that bedroom warm? Use an electric fan.

Myth: Heat Rises
 

On Feb 5, 10:16 pm, "J Seymour MacNicely"
wrote:
When it comes to getting the most effective insulation in place, not
only for your dream home, but for your ice-fishing shanty out on the
lake, your doghouse, your out-house, and that cat-house down by the
swamp and the railroad track where you been spending most of your
happy time anyway--it pays to take a few public-spirited things into
consideration . . .

As any fool would seem to know, hot air rises--and Lawd knows there be
plenty enough of it round these here cyber-parts to show the proof of
that. But not every fool is aware of the fact that heat and hot air
are two different things.

Heat is infra-red radiation, and as anyone familiar with the result of
infra-red photography can see, heat is light; it occupies a position
on the spectrum with all the other electro-magnetic wave-forms. In
view of this fact, it would be understood by at least a few half-way
perceptive fools that heat, as infra-red radiation does not require
air, water, cast iron or anything else to be propagated through space.

I came to be thinking on these matters as the result of a major
disappointment over some Styrofoam insulation I installed this year
under the floor of the master bedroom. Though the rest of the house is
heated by a cast iron wood stove, that bedroom is situated such that
not much heat migrates back to that part of the house, so we've been
heating that room with an electric space heater. The goal is to be
able to use that more sparingly.

Now as any fool knows, even a fool hates to be made a fool of,
especially by something like a 50 buck expenditure on foam insulation
that doesn't seem to be making the difference. It still gets very cold
down there near the floor--while most strangely, beneath that floor it
stays fairly warm all the time. It's not a basement but a cement block
walled "crawl space" running from a height at the entrance of about 5
feet where the house is built up over the slope of the ground--and
that's where the master bedroom is.

Some fools will insist that since the earth radiates warmth, this
accounts for all that warm air under the house in such an enclosed
space. If this were the case, then the same would hold true for that
garage size tool shed out there in the back yard--but it doesn't.
It's just so cold inside the shed as it is outside--and its built over
the same ground.

I kept saying to my sweet thing, "Sweet thing, it doesn't stand to
common sense--it's almost as if the heat from the house is going
*down* through the floor into that space under the house!" We spent a
lot of money insulating that bedroom this year, including the bucks we
put down for those R-19 fiber-glass batts that are now installed above
the ceiling. Something plainly cock-eyed is going on here!

Enter the wood-stove . . .

Due to space considerations peculiar to our house, we had to install
the wood-stove a lot closer to the wall than is generally considered
safe. At closest proximity, a ridge of hot cast-iron is only 4 inches
from the painted dry-wall. To avoid danger of fire, I at first
installed a galvanized sheet metal shield behind the stove. On the
wall, it extended so high as the stove-pipe which stands too close as
well, about 7 inches.

I fired up the stove to see how this would work out. As any simple
fool such as myself would suppose; for safety's sake, it would be good
to provide plenty of buffer between the stove and the wall, so for the
shield, I had covered both sides of a three foot square sheet of
plywood to do the job. When the stove was good and hot, I put my hand
on that sheet metal, to find that it was cool to the touch--but the
air in front of it was highly heated. Fool that I am, I stood there
going, "Hot Damn! What is this?"

Not even the hot air flowing over the reflective face of that
galvanized sheet-steel was serving to warm it up. And what manner of
fool would it take not to notice the difference between the warmth of
the wall behind the stove pipe at its seven-inch distance, and the
reflective shield at 4 inches? Something started to penetrate the dim
shield of false knowledge that was installed in my head at school.

When it comes to infra-red radiation of heat, there is no up, down or
sideways about it, it will radiate in any direction as heat,
completely independent of any currents of hot and cold air, gravity or
anything else. Some of the heat radiating from that wood-stove does
of course serve to warm up the air, some goes into the furniture and
into the dry-wall. And that still posed a fire-hazard back there
behind the stove pipe.

I got an idea, quite an unconventional one, but figured what the hell,
it's only for the duration of the winter months, and not really giving
a hot fart what anybody might think of it anyway, I went ahead and
tried another experiment: I took a roll of my wife's ordinary
aluminum foil and stapled that to the wall behind the stove pipe.
Again, it stayed cool to the touch. Well, hot doggies! I removed
that bulky sheet-steel and plywood shield and stapled more aluminum to
the wall as a replacement, so that now runs from floor to ceiling
behind the stove--and it never takes on the least amount of heat.

That's what a fool like me has decided to call "insulation". And now,
as I turn my mind back to the problem of that cold air in the region
near the floor in the bedroom, I come to realize a few things, the
main one being this: forget about what *hot air* does, as it always
goes up in its motion. Forget about air! Infra-red radiation, heat as
such, as waves or rays moves independent of the air, it goes down, it
goes up, and it goes sideways, but the main direction it's going to
move is toward any source of cold that would be drawing it.

Now don't ask a fool like me to explain just how or why a region of
lesser heat or 'cold' would act as a sort of magnet for infra-red
radiation. I am too foolish to have figured that out yet. I just
know from empirical observation of the facts from the master bedroom
that this is the case--from my cold bare feet, I am one fool who knows
what he's talking about here.

Standard home insulation in the form of fiberglass rolls and batts is
there primarily to interfere with, to block a movement of air--not
radiation. It can't do a simple fool thing about the propagation of
infra-red heat rays. That kind of insulation can trap air--but to
what purpose? How much air can be found to move through a three-
quarter inch thick sheet of tightly-packed gypsum wall-board?

Not enough to talk about. Heat radiation from the fire in a stove
will radiate to the air and into the walls, and from the air into the
walls. The heated dry-wall will radiate its heat into the fiber-glass
batting. All the while, cold air on the outside of the house is
drawing heat from the siding, the sheathing and the fiber-glass, and
there is nothing to stop that fiberglass from radiating its store of
infra-red energy, to heat the outside world.

So what earthly good, one well might wonder, is that fiberglass
insulation at all? If its purpose is to stop a flow of air, there are
certainly better, more solid materials suited to do that. If the idea
is to trap air and not just block it, Styrofoam would be the better
candidate because the structure is comprised of closed, impermeable
cells.

So, I am one fool whose mind is totally made up when it soon comes to
the job of building my own home on the land we are soon to buy. I
will not use fiberglass. I will use just two materials: Styrofoam
and aluminum foil.

If I can find the time for it this winter yet, I will go back down
there beneath the bedroom and staple to the face of all that brand new
blue Styrofoam, a single layer of Reynolds Wrap--and then we'll see
just how much of a fool a fool can be, when it comes to the
understanding that heat does not "rise", only hot air does that.
Heat, like all light can be efficiently reflected, and therefore
trapped to be preserved, kept from being drawn away toward any
direction of lesser heat, for example down in the basement, or in the
crawl-space beneath your average damned fool's home.

Heat is light, and like any other wave-length of light, it can be
reflected with very little loss of energy into the reflecting medium.
Like any other kind of light, heat goes right through glass. While
glass can stop the flow of heated air, it will at the same time rob
the air of its heat energy, due to the very low "specific heat" of
glass as a medium (among the coldest in the room) and being
transparent, infra-red radiation like any other sort of light, will
pass right through the glass--without heating the glass itself, same
as happens with foil reflection.

There is not much in a carpet or the boards of a floor to impede the
light that propagates at the infra-red end of the spectrum. True, some
of the heat energy will be dissipated into the carpet and flooring,
bringing heat into those media to be trapped and ever so inefficiently
stored. Wood and polyester fabric, despite whatever quantity of
silicates, are not glass and will not pass the infra-red energy on
without some appreciable loss: there will be molecules of elements in
the wood and in the organic compounds of the carpet that will absorb
and/or reflect heat energy, while the silicates (and whatever other
compounds I am too foolish to know about) will, like glass, allow the
heat radiation to pass through the carpet and the wood.

In short, infra-red radiation, as the form of light energy known as
"heat", does not find an impermeable barrier in wood and carpet, and
that is why it stays warm under my house in the winter. Heat can fall
right through your floor just as easily as it can rise through your
ceiling.

Have you ever heard of anything so foolish?
--
Mackiehttp://vignettes-mackie.blogspot.com/
"Who Did the Dahlia?"

Heat is the transfer of thermal energy, which can occur via
conduction, convection, or infrared (IR) radiation, not just
radiation as you imply. You are right that neither radiation nor
conduction travel preferentially upwards--only convection travels "up"
due to buoyancy. To solve heat loss, you have to look holistically at
all 3 forms of heat loss, plus other practicality factors. Air is a
terrible conductor & a super insulator, but it is transparent to IR
and a great convector. Fiberglass and styrofoam and function as
insulators by holding the air in place to keep it from convecting and
block some IR in the mean time. In foam and fiberglass, air is the
actual insulator, otherwise you'd use solid polystyrene or solid
glass. Yes, fiberglass does block & reflect some IR, just like it
blocks visible light--just 'cause it contains silicates doesn't mean
it's automatically "transparent." Styrofoam works better than
fiberglass because there is no air movement in its closed cells, but
it's not used as primary house insulation because it is flammable and
releases noxious gasses when burnt and does not roll up easily like
fiberglass. Otherwise our houses would be insulated with only
styrofoam. But go ahead, use it in your house. Not sure what you're
getting at ultimately, but there's a lot more than IR radiation to
consider in heat loss. Otherwise, you could just live under a tent of
aluminum foil.

Myth: Heat Rises
 

I
will not use fiberglass. I will use just two materials: Styrofoam
and aluminum foil.

Why don't you buy foil faced insulation?

Heat Rises
 

I only read the first few paragraphs; I can't imagine anyone reading it
through.
But the question is, why would you write such sillyness?
Heat is infra-red radiation! I guess we can save a fortune on insulation,
forced air furnaces, and numerous other items with that insight.

"J Seymour MacNicely" wrote in message
ups.com...
When it comes to getting the most effective insulation in place, not
only for your dream home, but for your ice-fishing shanty out on the
lake, your doghouse, your out-house, and that cat-house down by the
swamp and the railroad track where you been spending most of your
happy time anyway--it pays to take a few public-spirited things into
consideration . . .

As any fool would seem to know, hot air rises--and Lawd knows there be
plenty enough of it round these here cyber-parts to show the proof of
that. But not every fool is aware of the fact that heat and hot air
are two different things.

Heat is infra-red radiation, and as anyone familiar with the result of
infra-red photography can see, heat is light; it occupies a position
on the spectrum with all the other electro-magnetic wave-forms. In
view of this fact, it would be understood by at least a few half-way
perceptive fools that heat, as infra-red radiation does not require
air, water, cast iron or anything else to be propagated through space.

I came to be thinking on these matters as the result of a major
disappointment over some Styrofoam insulation I installed this year
under the floor of the master bedroom. Though the rest of the house is
heated by a cast iron wood stove, that bedroom is situated such that
not much heat migrates back to that part of the house, so we've been
heating that room with an electric space heater. The goal is to be
able to use that more sparingly.

Now as any fool knows, even a fool hates to be made a fool of,
especially by something like a 50 buck expenditure on foam insulation
that doesn't seem to be making the difference. It still gets very cold
down there near the floor--while most strangely, beneath that floor it
stays fairly warm all the time. It's not a basement but a cement block
walled "crawl space" running from a height at the entrance of about 5
feet where the house is built up over the slope of the ground--and
that's where the master bedroom is.

Some fools will insist that since the earth radiates warmth, this
accounts for all that warm air under the house in such an enclosed
space. If this were the case, then the same would hold true for that
garage size tool shed out there in the back yard--but it doesn't.
It's just so cold inside the shed as it is outside--and its built over
the same ground.

I kept saying to my sweet thing, "Sweet thing, it doesn't stand to
common sense--it's almost as if the heat from the house is going
*down* through the floor into that space under the house!" We spent a
lot of money insulating that bedroom this year, including the bucks we
put down for those R-19 fiber-glass batts that are now installed above
the ceiling. Something plainly cock-eyed is going on here!

Enter the wood-stove . . .

Due to space considerations peculiar to our house, we had to install
the wood-stove a lot closer to the wall than is generally considered
safe. At closest proximity, a ridge of hot cast-iron is only 4 inches
from the painted dry-wall. To avoid danger of fire, I at first
installed a galvanized sheet metal shield behind the stove. On the
wall, it extended so high as the stove-pipe which stands too close as
well, about 7 inches.

I fired up the stove to see how this would work out. As any simple
fool such as myself would suppose; for safety's sake, it would be good
to provide plenty of buffer between the stove and the wall, so for the
shield, I had covered both sides of a three foot square sheet of
plywood to do the job. When the stove was good and hot, I put my hand
on that sheet metal, to find that it was cool to the touch--but the
air in front of it was highly heated. Fool that I am, I stood there
going, "Hot Damn! What is this?"

Not even the hot air flowing over the reflective face of that
galvanized sheet-steel was serving to warm it up. And what manner of
fool would it take not to notice the difference between the warmth of
the wall behind the stove pipe at its seven-inch distance, and the
reflective shield at 4 inches? Something started to penetrate the dim
shield of false knowledge that was installed in my head at school.

When it comes to infra-red radiation of heat, there is no up, down or
sideways about it, it will radiate in any direction as heat,
completely independent of any currents of hot and cold air, gravity or
anything else. Some of the heat radiating from that wood-stove does
of course serve to warm up the air, some goes into the furniture and
into the dry-wall. And that still posed a fire-hazard back there
behind the stove pipe.

I got an idea, quite an unconventional one, but figured what the hell,
it's only for the duration of the winter months, and not really giving
a hot fart what anybody might think of it anyway, I went ahead and
tried another experiment: I took a roll of my wife's ordinary
aluminum foil and stapled that to the wall behind the stove pipe.
Again, it stayed cool to the touch. Well, hot doggies! I removed
that bulky sheet-steel and plywood shield and stapled more aluminum to
the wall as a replacement, so that now runs from floor to ceiling
behind the stove--and it never takes on the least amount of heat.

That's what a fool like me has decided to call "insulation". And now,
as I turn my mind back to the problem of that cold air in the region
near the floor in the bedroom, I come to realize a few things, the
main one being this: forget about what *hot air* does, as it always
goes up in its motion. Forget about air! Infra-red radiation, heat as
such, as waves or rays moves independent of the air, it goes down, it
goes up, and it goes sideways, but the main direction it's going to
move is toward any source of cold that would be drawing it.

Now don't ask a fool like me to explain just how or why a region of
lesser heat or 'cold' would act as a sort of magnet for infra-red
radiation. I am too foolish to have figured that out yet. I just
know from empirical observation of the facts from the master bedroom
that this is the case--from my cold bare feet, I am one fool who knows
what he's talking about here.

Standard home insulation in the form of fiberglass rolls and batts is
there primarily to interfere with, to block a movement of air--not
radiation. It can't do a simple fool thing about the propagation of
infra-red heat rays. That kind of insulation can trap air--but to
what purpose? How much air can be found to move through a three-
quarter inch thick sheet of tightly-packed gypsum wall-board?

Not enough to talk about. Heat radiation from the fire in a stove
will radiate to the air and into the walls, and from the air into the
walls. The heated dry-wall will radiate its heat into the fiber-glass
batting. All the while, cold air on the outside of the house is
drawing heat from the siding, the sheathing and the fiber-glass, and
there is nothing to stop that fiberglass from radiating its store of
infra-red energy, to heat the outside world.

So what earthly good, one well might wonder, is that fiberglass
insulation at all? If its purpose is to stop a flow of air, there are
certainly better, more solid materials suited to do that. If the idea
is to trap air and not just block it, Styrofoam would be the better
candidate because the structure is comprised of closed, impermeable
cells.

So, I am one fool whose mind is totally made up when it soon comes to
the job of building my own home on the land we are soon to buy. I
will not use fiberglass. I will use just two materials: Styrofoam
and aluminum foil.

If I can find the time for it this winter yet, I will go back down
there beneath the bedroom and staple to the face of all that brand new
blue Styrofoam, a single layer of Reynolds Wrap--and then we'll see
just how much of a fool a fool can be, when it comes to the
understanding that heat does not "rise", only hot air does that.
Heat, like all light can be efficiently reflected, and therefore
trapped to be preserved, kept from being drawn away toward any
direction of lesser heat, for example down in the basement, or in the
crawl-space beneath your average damned fool's home.

Heat is light, and like any other wave-length of light, it can be
reflected with very little loss of energy into the reflecting medium.
Like any other kind of light, heat goes right through glass. While
glass can stop the flow of heated air, it will at the same time rob
the air of its heat energy, due to the very low "specific heat" of
glass as a medium (among the coldest in the room) and being
transparent, infra-red radiation like any other sort of light, will
pass right through the glass--without heating the glass itself, same
as happens with foil reflection.

There is not much in a carpet or the boards of a floor to impede the
light that propagates at the infra-red end of the spectrum. True, some
of the heat energy will be dissipated into the carpet and flooring,
bringing heat into those media to be trapped and ever so inefficiently
stored. Wood and polyester fabric, despite whatever quantity of
silicates, are not glass and will not pass the infra-red energy on
without some appreciable loss: there will be molecules of elements in
the wood and in the organic compounds of the carpet that will absorb
and/or reflect heat energy, while the silicates (and whatever other
compounds I am too foolish to know about) will, like glass, allow the
heat radiation to pass through the carpet and the wood.

In short, infra-red radiation, as the form of light energy known as
"heat", does not find an impermeable barrier in wood and carpet, and
that is why it stays warm under my house in the winter. Heat can fall
right through your floor just as easily as it can rise through your
ceiling.

Have you ever heard of anything so foolish?
--
Mackie
http://vignettes-mackie.blogspot.com/
"Who Did the Dahlia?"

Myth: Heat Rises
 

J Seymour MacNicely wrote:

Standard home insulation in the form of fiberglass rolls and batts is
there primarily to interfere with, to block a movement of air--not
radiation. It can't do a simple fool thing about the propagation of
infra-red heat rays.

Wrong.

Nick

Myth: Heat Rises
 

astrojeff wrote:

Yes, fiberglass does block & reflect some IR...

I'd say it's utterly opaque to IR. Glass itself is, for wavelengths longer
than 3 microns.

Nick

Myth: Heat Rises
 

In article . com, "J Seymour MacNicely" wrote:

Standard home insulation in the form of fiberglass rolls and batts is
there primarily to interfere with, to block a movement of air--not
radiation. It can't do a simple fool thing about the propagation of
infra-red heat rays. That kind of insulation can trap air--but to
what purpose? How much air can be found to move through a three-
quarter inch thick sheet of tightly-packed gypsum wall-board?

You misunderstand the nature of the air movement it blocks. Insulation in a
wall cavity is not there to stop the transport of air through the cavity in
the wall; it's there to prevent convective circulation of air *within* the
cavity, which is a *highly* efficient means of transporting heat from the
interior wall to the exterior wall.

So, I am one fool whose mind is totally made up when it soon comes to
the job of building my own home on the land we are soon to buy. I
will not use fiberglass. I will use just two materials: Styrofoam
and aluminum foil.

Hope you never have a fire. Styrofoam burns like there's no tomorrow, and
emits toxic gases while it does.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Myth: Heat Rises
 

On Feb 6, 7:48 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article . com, "J Seymour MacNicely" wrote:

Standard home insulation in the form of fiberglass rolls and batts is
there primarily to interfere with, to block a movement of air--not
radiation. It can't do a simple fool thing about the propagation of
infra-red heat rays. That kind of insulation can trap air--but to
what purpose? How much air can be found to move through a three-
quarter inch thick sheet of tightly-packed gypsum wall-board?

You misunderstand the nature of the air movement it blocks. Insulation in a
wall cavity is not there to stop the transport of air through the cavity in
the wall; it's there to prevent convective circulation of air *within* the
cavity, which is a *highly* efficient means of transporting heat from the
interior wall to the exterior wall.

So, I am one fool whose mind is totally made up when it soon comes to
the job of building my own home on the land we are soon to buy. I
will not use fiberglass. I will use just two materials: Styrofoam
and aluminum foil.

Hope you never have a fire. Styrofoam burns like there's no tomorrow, and
emits toxic gases while it does.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Seems what JSM has discovered is that one way heat can be transfered
is via radiation and is now dismissing the two other methods,
conduction and convection. It's the latter which is associated with
"heat rises", but which should be more appropriately referred to as
hot air rises.

Myth: Heat Rises
 

On Feb 6, 6:04 am, wrote:
astrojeff wrote:
Yes, fiberglass does block & reflect some IR...

I'd say it's utterly opaque to IR. Glass itself is, for wavelengths longer
than 3 microns.

Nick


But, if the IR is making it to the insulation, the heat's already
gone.

Off to buy some tin foil to put on the ceiling...


D

Myth: Heat Rises
 

1] The radiant heat from the stove is travelling a very short distance.
Foil place across the room would do little

2] wood stove, cold room far away....hmmm could it be that the stove is
sucking the air out of the room and replacing it with cold outside
air??? Like every other woodstove on the planet.....


3] I am however beginning to lean in your direction on fiberglass. Foam
seems so much more effective

Heat spontaneously/rapidly dissipates ( from hot to cold ) through metal.
 

Hi J_Seymour_MacNicely,
Heat spontaneously/rapidly dissipates ( from hot to cold ) through metal.
Photons and circulating air, including isolated pockets of air, also do it.

Workers at my little grocery store measure the temperature of things
using a " gun " that measures the peak frequency of
" black body " ( i.e. a gaussian " bell " curve ) radiation.

The higher the peak frequency, the hotter the object.
The gas inside some galaxies ( at the center of galaxy clusters )
is so hot it emits x-rays ( and electrons run free, as a plasma ).

The tiles on the space shuttle ( there to prevent burnup on reentry )
are made of aerated silicon... Forgive me if I take their word over yours.

There are other measures of " coldness ",
e.g. the particles in a gamma ( or atom ) laser are at absolute zero
if they're perfectly coherent... as modeled by Bose-Einstein statistics.

Myth: Heat Rises
 

"yourname" wrote in message
news:zR0yh.1717$177.593@trndny08...
1] The radiant heat from the stove is travelling a very short distance.
Foil place across the room would do little

2] wood stove, cold room far away....hmmm could it be that the stove is
sucking the air out of the room and replacing it with cold outside
air??? Like every other woodstove on the planet.....


3] I am however beginning to lean in your direction on fiberglass. Foam
seems so much more effective

Even if foam is more effective, you'd have to seal every edge or you'd
lose heat through convection.

Most foam I've seen seems to be about R5/inch. That's not that much
greater than fiberglass. Installation would be way more time consuming.

Bob

Myth: Heat Rises
 

J Seymour MacNicely wrote:

Heat is infra-red radiation...

Heat energy can be transferred from one area to another by three
methods: conduction, convection, and radiation.

a) Conduction is when the two materials are directly touching each
other. Heat flows from the warmer into the cooler.

b) Convection is when air is circulating between two materials,
absorbing heat energy from the warmer and tranferring it to the cooler.

c) Radiation is the photons given off by the material.



Proper insulation requires protecting against all three types of heat
transfer. Any reflective surface will guard against radiation, but a
layer of aluminum foil does nothing to protect against conduction or
convection. Yes, styrofoam is more efficient at guarding against
convection than fiberglass. It's also a lot more expensive for a given
R value, it's highly flammable, and when it burns it gives off toxic fumes.

Chris

Myth: Heat Rises
 

wrote:

... if the IR is making it to the insulation, the heat's already gone.

No...

Off to buy some tin foil to put on the ceiling...

It won't help as much on the ceiling, R2.01, vs R0.84, with no foil,
for upward heatflow.

Nick

Heat spontaneously/rapidly dissipates ( from hot to cold ) through metal.
 

On Feb 6, 10:26 am, Jeff...Relf wrote:
Hi J_Seymour_MacNicely,
Heat spontaneously/rapidly dissipates ( from hot to cold ) through metal.
Photons and circulating air, including isolated pockets of air, also do it.

Workers at my little grocery store measure the temperature of things
using a " gun " that measures the peak frequency of
" black body " ( i.e. a gaussian " bell " curve ) radiation.

The higher the peak frequency, the hotter the object.
The gas inside some galaxies ( at the center of galaxy clusters )
is so hot it emits x-rays ( and electrons run free, as a plasma ).

The tiles on the space shuttle ( there to prevent burnup on reentry )
are made of aerated silicon... Forgive me if I take their word over yours.

There are other measures of " coldness ",
e.g. the particles in a gamma ( or atom ) laser are at absolute zero
if they're perfectly coherent... as modeled by Bose-Einstein statistics.

How did your workers get the gun to the galaxies and the space
shuttle?

Myth: Heat Rises
 

On 6 Feb 2007 05:53:37 -0500, wrote:

J Seymour MacNicely wrote:

Standard home insulation in the form of fiberglass rolls and batts is
there primarily to interfere with, to block a movement of air--not
radiation. It can't do a simple fool thing about the propagation of
infra-red heat rays.

Wrong.

Nick

There is, of course, no such thing as "infra-red heat rays".
Infra-red is electromagnetic radiation (in a frequency range just
below the low end {red} of the visible spectrum). Heat is the
mechanical vibration of molecules, something quite different.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Heat Rises
 

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 05:03:39 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

I only read the first few paragraphs; I can't imagine anyone reading it
through.
But the question is, why would you write such sillyness?
Heat is infra-red radiation!

And it still isn't, regardless of how many times that myth gets
posted!

I guess we can save a fortune on insulation,
forced air furnaces, and numerous other items with that insight.

and nonsense.

Heat Rises
 

In article ,
Sam E wrote:
On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 05:03:39 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

I only read the first few paragraphs; I can't imagine anyone reading it
through.
But the question is, why would you write such sillyness?
Heat is infra-red radiation!

And it still isn't, regardless of how many times that myth gets posted!

Wrong :-)

Nick

Myth: Heat Rises
 

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Yes, styrofoam is more efficient at guarding against
convection than fiberglass. It's also a lot more expensive for a given R
value, it's highly flammable, and when it burns it gives off toxic fumes.

which can cause daine bramage :)

Heat Rises
 

On 6 Feb 2007 16:07:48 -0500, wrote:

In article ,
Sam E wrote:
On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 05:03:39 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

I only read the first few paragraphs; I can't imagine anyone reading it
through.
But the question is, why would you write such sillyness?
Heat is infra-red radiation!

And it still isn't, regardless of how many times that myth gets posted!

Wrong :-)

Nick

There's a "problem" with reality. It often won't do as it's told. Heat
and IR continue to be completely different things.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Heat Rises
 

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Heat and IR continue to be completely different things.

Wrong again :-)

Nick

Myth: Heat Rises
 

On Feb 6, 2:49 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Infra-red is electromagnetic radiation (in a frequency range just
below the low end {red} of the visible spectrum). Heat is the
mechanical vibration of molecules, something quite different.

The whole point here is that such conventional wisdom as this, on the
subject of heat in the teaching of physics is outdated and proven
clueless--as demonstrated by the experiments described. So get out
your little physics pennants, and wave them things all over the place
till you're all full of tears and red in the face, if you think that
will help.

You can sit there hammering on last year's physics texts like a bunch
of Baptist Bible thumpers from Missouri, but all you are doing is
stating the same old gibberish as if it were the holy gospel handed
down from heaven.

You are able to memorize simple old facts and explanations, but you
can't think the next thought. If all heat is not, at its foundation,
infra-red radiation, if it is merely, as you recite (like some fanatic
with his Koran) "a mechanical vibration of molecules," then you have
NO WAY to explain the light-like reflection of heat from that
reflecting surface behind my stove. But let every monkey have a say in
his day of funny business . . .

On Feb 6, 9:26 am, Jeff...Relf wrote:

Hi J_Seymour_MacNicely,
Heat spontaneously/rapidly dissipates ( from hot to cold ) through metal.
Photons and circulating air, including isolated pockets of air, also do it.

And what will this one have to say, about the fact that the black iron
fireplace screen that I store behind the stove until it comes time to
put it in place in front, is always hot to the touch, while the foil
stapled on the wall above and behind is always cool, no matter how hot
the stove, pipe and screen? The characteristics of metal is not the
point. Reflectivity is.

Get a clue!

The tiles on the space shuttle ( there to prevent burnup on reentry )

are made of aerated silicon... Forgive me if I take their word over yours.

The word you take is none but your own, as you entirely misconstrue
the stated facts. The purpose of the silicon is dissipation of heat,
precisely what I said about it, when I spoke of silicates being very
poor insulators, indeed.

I am marooned on a planet of morons! I am besieged by blinking idiots,
who even after the experiment is shoved in their faces, cannot, for
the blindfolds of their dogma, even begin to see what it means.

So what is it really--plain ordinary blind dogmatism? Or is it the
nasty old envy that every time arises when somebody else got to the
idea first?

Mostly the latter, I'm sure. Because I know this tribe of monkeys
called, "man".

The human species has evolved physically pretty well from the chimps
(or whatever family tree) but so far as the competitive, aggressive
nature of the beast, as is plain to be seen, he is still making the
same arrogant grunting noises and hanging from the trees.

Have your fun monkeys. And when you run out of bananas, just look up,
for all you know, there may be a higher branch!
--
Mackie
http://vignettes-mackie.blogspot.com/

"Who Did the Dahlia?"

Myth: Heat Rises
 

"J Seymour MacNicely" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 6, 2:49 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Infra-red is electromagnetic radiation (in a frequency range just
below the low end {red} of the visible spectrum). Heat is the
mechanical vibration of molecules, something quite different.

The whole point here is that such conventional wisdom as this, on the
subject of heat in the teaching of physics is outdated and proven
clueless--as demonstrated by the experiments described. So get out
your little physics pennants, and wave them things all over the place
till you're all full of tears and red in the face, if you think that
will help.

You can sit there hammering on last year's physics texts like a bunch
of Baptist Bible thumpers from Missouri, but all you are doing is
stating the same old gibberish as if it were the holy gospel handed
down from heaven.

You are able to memorize simple old facts and explanations, but you
can't think the next thought. If all heat is not, at its foundation,
infra-red radiation, if it is merely, as you recite (like some fanatic
with his Koran) "a mechanical vibration of molecules," then you have
NO WAY to explain the light-like reflection of heat from that
reflecting surface behind my stove. But let every monkey have a say in
his day of funny business . . .

On Feb 6, 9:26 am, Jeff...Relf wrote:

Hi J_Seymour_MacNicely,
Heat spontaneously/rapidly dissipates ( from hot to cold ) through
metal.
Photons and circulating air, including isolated pockets of air, also do
it.

And what will this one have to say, about the fact that the black iron
fireplace screen that I store behind the stove until it comes time to
put it in place in front, is always hot to the touch, while the foil
stapled on the wall above and behind is always cool, no matter how hot
the stove, pipe and screen? The characteristics of metal is not the
point. Reflectivity is.

Get a clue!

The tiles on the space shuttle ( there to prevent burnup on reentry )

are made of aerated silicon... Forgive me if I take their word over
yours.

The word you take is none but your own, as you entirely misconstrue
the stated facts. The purpose of the silicon is dissipation of heat,
precisely what I said about it, when I spoke of silicates being very
poor insulators, indeed.

I am marooned on a planet of morons! I am besieged by blinking idiots,
who even after the experiment is shoved in their faces, cannot, for
the blindfolds of their dogma, even begin to see what it means.

So what is it really--plain ordinary blind dogmatism? Or is it the
nasty old envy that every time arises when somebody else got to the
idea first?

Mostly the latter, I'm sure. Because I know this tribe of monkeys
called, "man".

The human species has evolved physically pretty well from the chimps
(or whatever family tree) but so far as the competitive, aggressive
nature of the beast, as is plain to be seen, he is still making the
same arrogant grunting noises and hanging from the trees.

Have your fun monkeys. And when you run out of bananas, just look up,
for all you know, there may be a higher branch!
--

LOL - Another NIA who doesn't.

Bob

Myth: Heat Rises
 

Heat Rises
 

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 6 Feb 2007 16:07:48 -0500, wrote:


In article ,
Sam E wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 05:03:39 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


I only read the first few paragraphs; I can't imagine anyone reading it
through.
But the question is, why would you write such sillyness?
Heat is infra-red radiation!

And it still isn't, regardless of how many times that myth gets posted!

Wrong :-)

Nick


There's a "problem" with reality. It often won't do as it's told. Heat
and IR continue to be completely different things.

Hot (and even cold) bodies emit infrared, so they're often confused.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Heat Rises
 

Myth: Heat Rises
 

J Seymour MacNicely wrote:
When it comes to getting the most effective insulation in place, not
only for your dream home, but for your ice-fishing shanty out on the
lake, your doghouse, your out-house, and that cat-house down by the
swamp and the railroad track where you been spending most of your
happy time anyway--it pays to take a few public-spirited things into
consideration . . .

As any fool would seem to know, hot air rises--and Lawd knows there be
plenty enough of it round these here cyber-parts to show the proof of
that. But not every fool is aware of the fact that heat and hot air
are two different things.

Heat is infra-red radiation, and as anyone familiar with the result of
infra-red photography can see, heat is light; it occupies a position
on the spectrum with all the other electro-magnetic wave-forms. In
view of this fact, it would be understood by at least a few half-way
perceptive fools that heat, as infra-red radiation does not require
air, water, cast iron or anything else to be propagated through space.

snip - blah, blah, blah


You confuse the concepts of heat and hot air. While your post is a good example
of hot air, it differs from the hot air in a house. Hot air does rise. But
heat moves by radiation, convection and conduction. I would hazard a simple
guess that the bedroom is not any warmer because it is not getting much heat in
the first place. [Take something very cold and insulate it - will it get warm?
NO!] Besides, the nights probably got colder while you were doing your "testing".


Francis A. Miniter

Myth: Heat Rises
 

On Feb 6, 10:04 pm, "Francis A. Miniter"
wrote:

snip - blah, blah, blah

So solly! But honored gentleman would seem to have brundered into
wong house! Perhaps he would do well to first attend to the matter of
just who in his erring judgment he would suppose himself to be
addressing after such ill-tempered, and disrespectful, fashion?

Confucius say, "Confusion is often to be found in the peanut butter
smear on some poor man's honorable spectacles!"

It is precisely the confusion of heat with hot air in the mind of
others which is the subject under consideration, here.

"A book is a mirror, if an ass peers into it, you can't expect an
apostle to peer out." - Georg Lichtenberg

--
Mackie
http://vignettes-mackie.blogspot.com/
"Who Did the Dahlia?"


"Then?" I drained the last of my coffee.

"Yes! What else can you dig up to convince me that the sleazy little
harlot got just what she deserved?"

I set down my cup, and was pleased to see that she was hailing the
waiter with her empty Martini glass: it looked like my ruse was
working. "You sure you want another? That is your third, darling."

"Darn tootin!" She lightly banged her pretty little fist on the table.
"Because ya know why?"

"No idea."

"Cuz now you've got me committed to the vindication of this woman, and
I'm gonna see it through."

I sat back. "No more giving the dough back to Maurice?"

"No way. I'm not scared, see? Why, just have a look at me. I'm a
private eye, aren't I?"

"One for the lovely lady Sam Spade!" said the waiter, having taken the
empty, to set down the full. "And one more for the gent." He
straightened up.

I looked at him. "Well? What you want--a hot tip on the horses?" He
turned on his heel and was gone.
--
http://vignettes-mackie.blogspot.com/

Myth: Heat Rises
 

CJT wrote:

I'd say it's utterly opaque to IR. Glass itself is, for wavelengths longer
than 3 microns.

With a black body peak temp of 2898/3 = 966 K or 1280 F...

And yet when I put IR film in my camera with the glass lens, I get an
image. Go figure.

Googling IR film spectral sensitivity, I only see plots from 0.2-0.9 microns.

Nick

Heat Rises
 

On Feb 5, 9:03 pm, "Toller" wrote:
I only read the first few paragraphs; I can't imagine anyone reading it
through.

Same here.

But the question is, why would you write such sillyness?
Heat is infra-red radiation!

Heat Radiation
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...mo/stefan.html
Radiation is heat transfer by the emission of electromagnetic waves
which carry energy away from the emitting object. For ordinary
temperatures (less than red hot"), the radiation is in the infrared
region of the electromagnetic spectrum.

The Electromagnetic Spectrum
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ems1.html#c1
-------------------------------------------------------
Radiation heat transfer is concerned with the exchange of thermal
radiation energy between two or more bodies.

http://www.efunda.com/formulae/heat_...erview_rad.cfm
says

"Thermal radiation is defined as electromagnetic radiation in the
wavelength range of 0.1 to 100 microns (which encompasses the visible
light regime), and arises as a result of a temperature difference
between 2 bodies. "

Thermal radiation encompasses more than visible light region. See
below

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What..._radiation.htm
"The radiant heat you feel from an oven or a fire is infrared
radiation"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation
"Thermal radiation is electromagnetic radiation emitted from the
surface of an object which is due to the object's temperature.
Infrared radiation from a common household radiator or electric heater
is an example of thermal radiation, as is the light emitted by a
glowing incandescent light bulb. Thermal radiation is generated when
heat from the movement of charged particles within atoms is converted
to electromagnetic radiation."

Infrared radiation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_radiation

"Infrared (IR) radiation is electromagnetic radiation of a wavelength
longer than that of visible light, but shorter than that of radio
waves. "

As for whether *heat* (in the form of thermal radiation) goes down or
goes up would depend on a lot of factors. http://www.elmhurst.edu/
~chm/vchembook/globalwarmA5.html


I guess we can save a fortune on insulation,
forced air furnaces, and numerous other items with that insight.

Hot air does NOT rise. Cool air FALLS displacing warmer air forcing it upwards. PHYSICS.

Myth: Heat Rises
 

In article , JET_FEATHER wrote:

Hot air does NOT rise. Cool air FALLS displacing warmer air forcing it
upwards. PHYSICS.

Tell me -- does ice float? Or does water sink?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Myth: Heat Rises
 

JET_FEATHER wrote:
Hot air does NOT rise. Cool air FALLS displacing warmer air forcing it
upwards. PHYSICS.




hot air is less dense than cold air. The two act accordingly. whatever

Myth: Heat Rises
 

In article . com, J
Seymour MacNicely wrote:
On Feb 6, 2:49 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Infra-red is electromagnetic radiation (in a frequency range just
below the low end {red} of the visible spectrum). Heat is the
mechanical vibration of molecules, something quite different.

The whole point here is that such conventional wisdom as this, on the
subject of heat in the teaching of physics is outdated and proven
clueless--as demonstrated by the experiments described. So get out
your little physics pennants, and wave them things all over the place
till you're all full of tears and red in the face, if you think that
will help.

You can sit there hammering on last year's physics texts like a bunch
of Baptist Bible thumpers from Missouri, but all you are doing is
stating the same old gibberish as if it were the holy gospel handed
down from heaven.

You are able to memorize simple old facts and explanations, but you
can't think the next thought. If all heat is not, at its foundation,
infra-red radiation, if it is merely, as you recite (like some fanatic
with his Koran) "a mechanical vibration of molecules," then you have
NO WAY to explain the light-like reflection of heat from that
reflecting surface behind my stove. But let every monkey have a say in
his day of funny business . . .

The surface reflects infrared. Heat is the result of the infrared
energy being converted to heat energy when it is absorbed.
Electromagnetic radiation is not the same thing as heat. Invisible
electromagnetic radiation is not heat any more than visible
electromagnetic radiation is.
Thermal radiation is a process where heat energy is converted to
electromagnetic radiation, sometimes some of which is visible light.

- Don Klipstein )

Myth: Heat Rises
 

In article , CJT wrote:
wrote:
astrojeff wrote:


Yes, fiberglass does block & reflect some IR...


I'd say it's utterly opaque to IR. Glass itself is, for wavelengths longer
than 3 microns.

Nick

And yet when I put IR film in my camera with the glass lens, I get an
image. Go figure.

Apparently Nick was referring to the wavelengths of IR radiated by
objects at or a little above room temperature. That is indeed pretty much
all longer than 3 microns, and it won't go through glass. IR film won't
respond to it either.

IR film mainly responds to wavelengths less than .9 micron. IR CCD
cameras respond a little farther out, to maybe 1.1 microns maybe a little
more, but not the room temperature thermal IR range. You need those
thermal imaging jobbies to see those long wavelengths.

- Don Klipstein )

Heat Rises
 

In article .com,
Amanda wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:03 pm, "Toller" wrote:
I only read the first few paragraphs; I can't imagine anyone reading it
through.

Same here.

But the question is, why would you write such sillyness?
Heat is infra-red radiation!

Heat Radiation
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...mo/stefan.html
Radiation is heat transfer by the emission of electromagnetic waves
which carry energy away from the emitting object. For ordinary
temperatures (less than red hot"), the radiation is in the infrared
region of the electromagnetic spectrum.

The Electromagnetic Spectrum
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ems1.html#c1
-------------------------------------------------------
Radiation heat transfer is concerned with the exchange of thermal
radiation energy between two or more bodies.

http://www.efunda.com/formulae/heat_...erview_rad.cfm
says

Although there is such a thing as thermal radiation and radiation heat
transfer, there is still the fact that the energy goes through a couple of
conversions in the process. Heat is converted to electromagnetic
radiation, and electromagnetic radiation is converted back to heat when it
is absorbed. "Radiant heat" is still electromagnetic radiation.

- Don Klistein )

"Thermal radiation is defined as electromagnetic radiation in the
wavelength range of 0.1 to 100 microns (which encompasses the visible
light regime), and arises as a result of a temperature difference
between 2 bodies. "

Thermal radiation is mostly found in that range, but it does exist
outside that range. If the temperature is outside the range of roughly 30
to 30,000 Kelvin, then the peak of the spectral power distribution of the
thermal radiation will be outside the .1-100 micron range.

- Don Klipstein )

Myth: Heat Rises
 

In article ,
JET_FEATHER wrote:

Hot air does NOT rise. Cool air FALLS displacing warmer air forcing it
upwards. PHYSICS.




--
JET_FEATHER

So on the moon, for instance, if some hot air was released from a storage
vessel, it would just stay put, since there is no cold air to displace it.
Is that right? PHYSICS.



is no cold air to fall and displace it? PHYSICS.
--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org

Myth: Heat Rises
 

"JET_FEATHER" wrote in message
...

Hot air does NOT rise. Cool air FALLS displacing warmer air forcing it
upwards. PHYSICS.


There is no cold -- only the absence of heat. More physics

Myth: Heat Rises
 

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:07:59 -0500, "The Streets"

There is no cold -- only the absence of heat.

You never met my mother-in-law then.