Customers purchacing their own material (long)
In another thread this issue was brought up.
Is it OK for a customer to buy their own material (in my case tile), and expect a professional contractor to install it? It's a good question, and one I've faced probably a few hundred times over many years. My opinion is that customers who purchace materials first, without consulting a professional do so blindly and many suffer for years for a bad decision. The first thought people have about this is that the customer is "cutting out the contractor" from making a markup on materials. Generally this is where the discussion centers on. I think it's the wrong discussion. As I've mentioned, there are two kinds of customers who buy their own materials... (1) the person who does so innocently, just thinking it is the right thing to do, and: (2) the person who deliberately is trying to save money and cut out the markup from the contractor. Person (2) is often trying to be cheap and probably wants a cheap price on installation too. I quickly try to get out of dealing with person (2), and as far as I'm concerned if they want to go cheap, go ahead. I'm not interested. Save some money on the tile, save money on the installation- and get what you pay for. What about the innocent person though? Is it wise to buy materials first, then hire a contractor install it? Adjusting the price is possible with the decent customer who wants a good installation and is willing to pay for it. They will agree to pay a little more to the contractor, knowing now that they innocently cut into his profit. That, though, the least of the potention problems caused by people buying their own material. Some people buy such crappy material that I don't want to be associated with it. Others will buy the wrong amount but swear it's more than enough. Some will buy "close out" tile and not be aware it's 4 different shades, dye lots, bad sizing etc. Some will bring the material home and stack it wrong (horizontally), cracking dozens of them. The problem with cracking is that it's often not noticed until the grouting process when the cracks get wet and are visible for the first time. I've spent tons of time weeding through the "junk" to pick out the good tiles. People buy thinset and grout 4 months before the job so it's lumpy by tiling time, yet want to "break it up" and still use it. People buy the wrong type of thinset and insist I use it because "the guy" at the store said it was the right stuff, and of course "the guy at the store" is a real expert. People will buy the tile and expect me to pick it up for them since I have a truck, and after all.....they're hiring me to do the work!......so the store makes the profit and I'm supposed to do the work hauling it? These are just a sampling of problems that have come up in my 25 years of tile contracting. By far the easiest and wisest thing for my customers to do is contact me _first_ and let me help them with what is now state-of-the-art, what is not already outdated... what is the right tile for them- what goes with their home and furniture. What tile works best with children? Old people who may slip? Animals who track in dirt? Who can help them with this more than an expert consulting with them in their home? Issues of color, style, size, type, quality, glaze hardness, break strength and the issues in this paragraph can't be "figured out" by the average homeowner. Most people choosing new tile haven't done it in many years, sometimes 10, 15 or 20 years. They are surprised at what is now available for them in 2007. The selections are greatly multiplied from my early years doing this, but that just makes it far more important for customers to let me help them and point them in the right direction. I know what showrooms and distributorships are honest and good quality, and where they will be safe shopping for fair pricing. I know where they should avoid. When I send them to certain distributor showrooms, I specifically name the showroom people there who I know are expert and honest. The customer can benefit from this experience. People also greatly appreciate help, encouragement and persuasion to do the 'right thing' and find that perfect tile that they'll live with for many years. I'm frank and honest when they're heading in a wrong direction. Elderly people need to be persuaded against smooth slick tile. Outdoor tile needs to be clearly non-slip. 12x12 tile will be immediately outdated. Etc Etc Etc. Customers need to be straight forwardly told when they are heading in a wrong direction, and appreciate the help and guidance. The goal is always at the end of the job to hear "thank you so-much for your help, we are so thrilled with the job". Even better is to go back years later for other work there and hear again how happy they have been with the tile. A professional tile contractor's head is full of knowledge and ideas. It is a shame when people don't access this opportunity to get some fresh ideas and perspective. It isn't about "sales". It isn't about "making money". Any contractor who has this as their goal does a disservice to their customers. What it's "about" is the customer. They are paying a lot of money for the work and tile. They have to live with the result for years as the installer moves on to other things. The goal is to lead the customer to that perfect selection that will fit their needs, then perform an installation that will make their project a success. Customers have friends and family. They want these people to come over and say "hey that looks great". They want to remain satisfied for many years. Contractors and installers who have this customer-first attitude will have no problem getting work, or making money, and will be a blessing to many people. Should the customer purchace materials before consulting with the contractor/installer? I don't think so. thetiler |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
thetiler wrote: In another thread this issue was brought up. Is it OK for a customer to buy their own material (in my case tile), and expect a professional contractor to install it? It's a good question, and one I've faced probably a few hundred times over many years. My opinion is that customers who purchace materials first, without consulting a professional do so blindly and many suffer for years for a bad decision. The first thought people have about this is that the customer is "cutting out the contractor" from making a markup on materials. Generally this is where the discussion centers on. I think it's the wrong discussion. As I've mentioned, there are two kinds of customers who buy their own materials... (1) the person who does so innocently, just thinking it is the right thing to do, and: (2) the person who deliberately is trying to save money and cut out the markup from the contractor. Person (2) is often trying to be cheap and probably wants a cheap price on installation too. I quickly try to get out of dealing with person (2), and as far as I'm concerned if they want to go cheap, go ahead. I'm not interested. Save some money on the tile, save money on the installation- and get what you pay for. What about the innocent person though? Is it wise to buy materials first, then hire a contractor install it? Adjusting the price is possible with the decent customer who wants a good installation and is willing to pay for it. They will agree to pay a little more to the contractor, knowing now that they innocently cut into his profit. That, though, the least of the potention problems caused by people buying their own material. Some people buy such crappy material that I don't want to be associated with it. Others will buy the wrong amount but swear it's more than enough. Some will buy "close out" tile and not be aware it's 4 different shades, dye lots, bad sizing etc. Some will bring the material home and stack it wrong (horizontally), cracking dozens of them. The problem with cracking is that it's often not noticed until the grouting process when the cracks get wet and are visible for the first time. I've spent tons of time weeding through the "junk" to pick out the good tiles. People buy thinset and grout 4 months before the job so it's lumpy by tiling time, yet want to "break it up" and still use it. People buy the wrong type of thinset and insist I use it because "the guy" at the store said it was the right stuff, and of course "the guy at the store" is a real expert. People will buy the tile and expect me to pick it up for them since I have a truck, and after all.....they're hiring me to do the work!......so the store makes the profit and I'm supposed to do the work hauling it? These are just a sampling of problems that have come up in my 25 years of tile contracting. By far the easiest and wisest thing for my customers to do is contact me _first_ and let me help them with what is now state-of-the-art, what is not already outdated... what is the right tile for them- what goes with their home and furniture. What tile works best with children? Old people who may slip? Animals who track in dirt? Who can help them with this more than an expert consulting with them in their home? Issues of color, style, size, type, quality, glaze hardness, break strength and the issues in this paragraph can't be "figured out" by the average homeowner. Most people choosing new tile haven't done it in many years, sometimes 10, 15 or 20 years. They are surprised at what is now available for them in 2007. The selections are greatly multiplied from my early years doing this, but that just makes it far more important for customers to let me help them and point them in the right direction. I know what showrooms and distributorships are honest and good quality, and where they will be safe shopping for fair pricing. I know where they should avoid. When I send them to certain distributor showrooms, I specifically name the showroom people there who I know are expert and honest. The customer can benefit from this experience. People also greatly appreciate help, encouragement and persuasion to do the 'right thing' and find that perfect tile that they'll live with for many years. I'm frank and honest when they're heading in a wrong direction. Elderly people need to be persuaded against smooth slick tile. Outdoor tile needs to be clearly non-slip. 12x12 tile will be immediately outdated. Etc Etc Etc. Customers need to be straight forwardly told when they are heading in a wrong direction, and appreciate the help and guidance. The goal is always at the end of the job to hear "thank you so-much for your help, we are so thrilled with the job". Even better is to go back years later for other work there and hear again how happy they have been with the tile. A professional tile contractor's head is full of knowledge and ideas. It is a shame when people don't access this opportunity to get some fresh ideas and perspective. It isn't about "sales". It isn't about "making money". Any contractor who has this as their goal does a disservice to their customers. What it's "about" is the customer. They are paying a lot of money for the work and tile. They have to live with the result for years as the installer moves on to other things. The goal is to lead the customer to that perfect selection that will fit their needs, then perform an installation that will make their project a success. Customers have friends and family. They want these people to come over and say "hey that looks great". They want to remain satisfied for many years. Contractors and installers who have this customer-first attitude will have no problem getting work, or making money, and will be a blessing to many people. Should the customer purchace materials before consulting with the contractor/installer? I don't think so. thetiler thats probably fair enough , but on the other hand ya get contractors who take a job , quote low to get it , then appear one day a week or less, when they feel like it , charge 300+ percent markup on stuff bought and delivered by the local BORG and who leave a big mess behind. (bits of grout on hallway carpets, bits of cutoff plastic trim down the toilet etc. ) Not to mention that the quoted price is usually a flight of fantasy and usually ends up 50 percent or more higher. The only contractors I will now use are installers from the building supply places who know that they need to do a good clean proffessional job , or they dont get more work. |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
Tiler,
You might avoid this situation if your Yellow Pages add clearly states that you will not install tile that you do not sell since you can not stand behind it. Or that you will install but not warranty such work. Dave M. |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
This happens to all the trades that do work in the home, and some that do
other work too. It is a matter of stating up front that supply is part of the service, and the conditions and prices that you work under if the customer does the supplying. "thetiler" wrote in message ups.com... In another thread this issue was brought up. Is it OK for a customer to buy their own material (in my case tile), and expect a professional contractor to install it? It's a good question, and one I've faced probably a few hundred times over many years. My opinion is that customers who purchace materials first, without consulting a professional do so blindly and many suffer for years for a bad decision. The first thought people have about this is that the customer is "cutting out the contractor" from making a markup on materials. Generally this is where the discussion centers on. I think it's the wrong discussion. As I've mentioned, there are two kinds of customers who buy their own materials... (1) the person who does so innocently, just thinking it is the right thing to do, and: (2) the person who deliberately is trying to save money and cut out the markup from the contractor. Person (2) is often trying to be cheap and probably wants a cheap price on installation too. I quickly try to get out of dealing with person (2), and as far as I'm concerned if they want to go cheap, go ahead. I'm not interested. Save some money on the tile, save money on the installation- and get what you pay for. What about the innocent person though? Is it wise to buy materials first, then hire a contractor install it? Adjusting the price is possible with the decent customer who wants a good installation and is willing to pay for it. They will agree to pay a little more to the contractor, knowing now that they innocently cut into his profit. That, though, the least of the potention problems caused by people buying their own material. Some people buy such crappy material that I don't want to be associated with it. Others will buy the wrong amount but swear it's more than enough. Some will buy "close out" tile and not be aware it's 4 different shades, dye lots, bad sizing etc. Some will bring the material home and stack it wrong (horizontally), cracking dozens of them. The problem with cracking is that it's often not noticed until the grouting process when the cracks get wet and are visible for the first time. I've spent tons of time weeding through the "junk" to pick out the good tiles. People buy thinset and grout 4 months before the job so it's lumpy by tiling time, yet want to "break it up" and still use it. People buy the wrong type of thinset and insist I use it because "the guy" at the store said it was the right stuff, and of course "the guy at the store" is a real expert. People will buy the tile and expect me to pick it up for them since I have a truck, and after all.....they're hiring me to do the work!......so the store makes the profit and I'm supposed to do the work hauling it? These are just a sampling of problems that have come up in my 25 years of tile contracting. By far the easiest and wisest thing for my customers to do is contact me _first_ and let me help them with what is now state-of-the-art, what is not already outdated... what is the right tile for them- what goes with their home and furniture. What tile works best with children? Old people who may slip? Animals who track in dirt? Who can help them with this more than an expert consulting with them in their home? Issues of color, style, size, type, quality, glaze hardness, break strength and the issues in this paragraph can't be "figured out" by the average homeowner. Most people choosing new tile haven't done it in many years, sometimes 10, 15 or 20 years. They are surprised at what is now available for them in 2007. The selections are greatly multiplied from my early years doing this, but that just makes it far more important for customers to let me help them and point them in the right direction. I know what showrooms and distributorships are honest and good quality, and where they will be safe shopping for fair pricing. I know where they should avoid. When I send them to certain distributor showrooms, I specifically name the showroom people there who I know are expert and honest. The customer can benefit from this experience. People also greatly appreciate help, encouragement and persuasion to do the 'right thing' and find that perfect tile that they'll live with for many years. I'm frank and honest when they're heading in a wrong direction. Elderly people need to be persuaded against smooth slick tile. Outdoor tile needs to be clearly non-slip. 12x12 tile will be immediately outdated. Etc Etc Etc. Customers need to be straight forwardly told when they are heading in a wrong direction, and appreciate the help and guidance. The goal is always at the end of the job to hear "thank you so-much for your help, we are so thrilled with the job". Even better is to go back years later for other work there and hear again how happy they have been with the tile. A professional tile contractor's head is full of knowledge and ideas. It is a shame when people don't access this opportunity to get some fresh ideas and perspective. It isn't about "sales". It isn't about "making money". Any contractor who has this as their goal does a disservice to their customers. What it's "about" is the customer. They are paying a lot of money for the work and tile. They have to live with the result for years as the installer moves on to other things. The goal is to lead the customer to that perfect selection that will fit their needs, then perform an installation that will make their project a success. Customers have friends and family. They want these people to come over and say "hey that looks great". They want to remain satisfied for many years. Contractors and installers who have this customer-first attitude will have no problem getting work, or making money, and will be a blessing to many people. Should the customer purchace materials before consulting with the contractor/installer? I don't think so. thetiler |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
"thetiler" wrote in message (2) the person who deliberately is trying to save money and cut out the markup from the contractor. Person (2) is often trying to be cheap and probably wants a cheap price on installation too. Good advice. I'd bet there are many more #2's than the #1's. They make for a no-win situation. |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
In my custom woodworking business, I let folks (who want to) come to the
lumberyard with me to select the stock to be used for their project. I charge a flat rate for the time spent getting the lumber (same as my normal labour rate), and let the customer pay the bill at the yard (They get my contractors discount). This lets the customer be involved in stock selection, but also lets me be there to point out things that they may have missed because they don't look at wood every day. Some things that I've found: 1) many customers are amazed that you have to buy more wood than you are actually going to use - the concept of waste is often something they haven't dealt with before. 2) every customer I've ever dealt with this way is *amazed* at the cost of cabinet grade lumber. 3) after picking through a pile of stock, most customers start to realize that there is a lot more to selecting quality lumber than just getting pieces that are the right size. Those little knotholes, color variations, grain irregularities, surface dings and checks that they don't see (or assume can just be "sanded out") help them realize that part of what they are paying for is the fact that I can look at a few $100+ pieces of wood, and see which ones will work, and which ones won't. 4) when the customer watches me piece together what parts will come from which board (and write it down in my shop log), they start to realize that I can (usually) get a lot more out of a board than they can. They also realize that there are a *lot* of little pieces in furniture that they never thought of..... Over all, I usually encourage a customer to participate in this phase of a job. By keeping them involved, they start to realize that they really are getting a lot for what they are paying. This is also a great place to realy fine tune what the customer wants. When they see a bin full of curly maple next to a bin full of birdseye, (next to walnut, cherry, mahogany, etc) its really easy to tell who has realy made their mind up about what they want.... I've had more than one customer decide to postpone a project while they reconsider what type of wood to use.... its worth noting that the work I do is high end custom furtniture. This wouldn't work for many home renovation type contractors..... --JD |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
I'm really wondering why any contractor should make money on the
supplies they use to do a job. If you charge a proper hourly amount (or fixed amount by job - whatever), IMO, you should not need to charge any markup on supplies. I am happy to pay a contractor for their work (including time it may take to obtain/determine necessary supplies). I'm not willing to pay him/her for someone else's work (the supplies themselves). This is part of the reason I've started to do most repair/remodel work myself. Finding an honest and reliable contractor these days is difficult at best. Doug thetiler wrote: In another thread this issue was brought up. Is it OK for a customer to buy their own material (in my case tile), and expect a professional contractor to install it? Should the customer purchace materials before consulting with the contractor/installer? I don't think so. thetiler |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
wrote in message oups.com... I'm really wondering why any contractor should make money on the supplies they use to do a job. If you charge a proper hourly amount (or fixed amount by job - whatever), IMO, you should not need to charge any markup on supplies. Put yourself in the contractor's position. You buy the material. You put your money out, you spend the time to order it, receive it, store it, load up the truck, haul it to the job site, unload the truck, he waits for you to pay, meantime, he has sent off a check to his supplier, filled out any tax forms needed, etc. Should he charge you the same rate as the guy that supplied all the material? What would YOU do? |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote: wrote in message oups.com... I'm really wondering why any contractor should make money on the supplies they use to do a job. If you charge a proper hourly amount (or fixed amount by job - whatever), IMO, you should not need to charge any markup on supplies. Put yourself in the contractor's position. You buy the material. You put your money out, you spend the time to order it, receive it, store it, load up the truck, haul it to the job site, unload the truck, he waits for you to pay, meantime, he has sent off a check to his supplier, filled out any tax forms needed, etc. Should he charge you the same rate as the guy that supplied all the material? What would YOU do? In the end the thing one should be concerned about is the total cost of the job, not exactly how the money is split up. I agree that just about all contractors are going to mark up the price of materials they supply to cover their costs. Most are also going to add on some more margin. And any that don't are very likely going to make up the difference in profit with higher labor charges, or somewhere else. |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message ... On 16 Jan 2007 10:30:26 -0800, wrote: I'm really wondering why any contractor should make money on the supplies they use to do a job. If you charge a proper hourly amount (or fixed amount by job - whatever), IMO, you should not need to charge any markup on supplies. I am happy to pay a contractor for their work (including time it may take to obtain/determine necessary supplies). I'm not willing to pay him/her for someone else's work (the supplies themselves). This is part of the reason I've started to do most repair/remodel work myself. Finding an honest and reliable contractor these days is difficult at best. Doug Okay, try this: Go to your favorite restaurant. When the waiter comes to take your order, hand him a bag containing some eggs, bread, toast, juice, and butter. Ask him to make your breakfast. CWM Actually, I have done just that -- some of my favorite restaurants are at Lei Yue Mun, a fishing village on the edge of Hong Kong. You reserve a table at your choice of several restaurants, then go to the fish markets nearby and select the individual fish, lobster, etc., that you want for dinner. You pay the shopkeeper for the seafood and tell him which restaurant you'll be using. The seafood is sent to the restaurant, and you go back to your table, have a beer or mao tai, and in a few minutes your personally selected absolutely fresh seafood dinner is delivered to your table. When you go with a bunch of friends it makes for a great evening. I've also eaten at restaurants in Ottawa and around Ontario where you brought in your fresh fish and they then prepared it for your dinner. Similarly, I don't see anything wrong with a customer specifying the specific type of materials that he wants used for a job, even if it means the customer has to buy the material first. The customer may have a specific concept for the space and have seen something special that the tradesman is either unfamiliar with or doesn't have access to. For example, we found some antique carved teakwood walls, 3 pieces, each 8' wide x 9' tall, that became part of the side walls of our bedroom. Similarly, in a junkyard (excuse me, second-hand shop) we found a pallet of high-quality cobalt-blue ceramic roof tiles that became the top course of a wall around part of our house. No local roofer would have found that material. OTOH, for conventional supplies I'll rely on the contractor or subcontractor, but I'll also know if there's something special that I want to add to individualize my property. Regards -- |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
I would ask the installer for the correct quantity/quality before
purchaseing. Why should I be stuck selecting the limited choices from what the installer's brother in law sells? If I talk to a professionaland he say "12x12 will be fine and gives me a quantity, why shouldnt I go to several tile places HD lowes etc and find one I really like and buy it. I am not one to buy the cheapest nor the most costly as one gets screwed either way. Then I get what I want at a good price and just pay for labor. I had a front door put in. I had my guy come out measure and let me know exactly what size door was needed. Wife and I went to HD picked a nice one out and brought it home. What do you really think the installer would do but jack up the price of the same door he bought at HD? He came installed it I gladly paid himfor his labor. I plan on doing the same thing with the same installer for a back door. Expert can give me specifics and I'm smart enough to get the right thing. wrote: In another thread this issue was brought up. Is it OK for a customer to buy their own material (in my case tile), and expect a professional contractor to install it? It's a good question, and one I've faced probably a few hundred times over many years. My opinion is that customers who purchace materials first, without consulting a professional do so blindly and many suffer for years for a bad decision. The first thought people have about this is that the customer is "cutting out the contractor" from making a markup on materials. Generally this is where the discussion centers on. I think it's the wrong discussion. As I've mentioned, there are two kinds of customers who buy their own materials... (1) the person who does so innocently, just thinking it is the right thing to do, and: (2) the person who deliberately is trying to save money and cut out the markup from the contractor. Person (2) is often trying to be cheap and probably wants a cheap price on installation too. I quickly try to get out of dealing with person (2), and as far as I'm concerned if they want to go cheap, go ahead. I'm not interested. Save some money on the tile, save money on the installation- and get what you pay for. What about the innocent person though? Is it wise to buy materials first, then hire a contractor install it? Adjusting the price is possible with the decent customer who wants a good installation and is willing to pay for it. They will agree to pay a little more to the contractor, knowing now that they innocently cut into his profit. That, though, the least of the potention problems caused by people buying their own material. Some people buy such crappy material that I don't want to be associated with it. Others will buy the wrong amount but swear it's more than enough. Some will buy "close out" tile and not be aware it's 4 different shades, dye lots, bad sizing etc. Some will bring the material home and stack it wrong (horizontally), cracking dozens of them. The problem with cracking is that it's often not noticed until the grouting process when the cracks get wet and are visible for the first time. I've spent tons of time weeding through the "junk" to pick out the good tiles. People buy thinset and grout 4 months before the job so it's lumpy by tiling time, yet want to "break it up" and still use it. People buy the wrong type of thinset and insist I use it because "the guy" at the store said it was the right stuff, and of course "the guy at the store" is a real expert. People will buy the tile and expect me to pick it up for them since I have a truck, and after all.....they're hiring me to do the work!......so the store makes the profit and I'm supposed to do the work hauling it? These are just a sampling of problems that have come up in my 25 years of tile contracting. By far the easiest and wisest thing for my customers to do is contact me _first_ and let me help them with what is now state-of-the-art, what is not already outdated... what is the right tile for them- what goes with their home and furniture. What tile works best with children? Old people who may slip? Animals who track in dirt? Who can help them with this more than an expert consulting with them in their home? Issues of color, style, size, type, quality, glaze hardness, break strength and the issues in this paragraph can't be "figured out" by the average homeowner. Most people choosing new tile haven't done it in many years, sometimes 10, 15 or 20 years. They are surprised at what is now available for them in 2007. The selections are greatly multiplied from my early years doing this, but that just makes it far more important for customers to let me help them and point them in the right direction. I know what showrooms and distributorships are honest and good quality, and where they will be safe shopping for fair pricing. I know where they should avoid. When I send them to certain distributor showrooms, I specifically name the showroom people there who I know are expert and honest. The customer can benefit from this experience. People also greatly appreciate help, encouragement and persuasion to do the 'right thing' and find that perfect tile that they'll live with for many years. I'm frank and honest when they're heading in a wrong direction. Elderly people need to be persuaded against smooth slick tile. Outdoor tile needs to be clearly non-slip. 12x12 tile will be immediately outdated. Etc Etc Etc. Customers need to be straight forwardly told when they are heading in a wrong direction, and appreciate the help and guidance. The goal is always at the end of the job to hear "thank you so-much for your help, we are so thrilled with the job". Even better is to go back years later for other work there and hear again how happy they have been with the tile. A professional tile contractor's head is full of knowledge and ideas. It is a shame when people don't access this opportunity to get some fresh ideas and perspective. It isn't about "sales". It isn't about "making money". Any contractor who has this as their goal does a disservice to their customers. What it's "about" is the customer. They are paying a lot of money for the work and tile. They have to live with the result for years as the installer moves on to other things. The goal is to lead the customer to that perfect selection that will fit their needs, then perform an installation that will make their project a success. Customers have friends and family. They want these people to come over and say "hey that looks great". They want to remain satisfied for many years. Contractors and installers who have this customer-first attitude will have no problem getting work, or making money, and will be a blessing to many people. Should the customer purchace materials before consulting with the contractor/installer? I don't think so. thetiler |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
I tend to explain to customers that the materials they bought
might not fit. And that part of what they are getting from me is wisdom. So, it's cheaper in the long run for me to come out, spec the job, supply the parts. If they really want to get cheap, two can play. I can get to the house, find out that what have won't work. So, I bill for a house call, and come back when they got the right parts. Of course, that's two billable house calls. Plus $50 an hour for advice and counsell. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "David Martel" wrote in message link.net... Tiler, You might avoid this situation if your Yellow Pages add clearly states that you will not install tile that you do not sell since you can not stand behind it. Or that you will install but not warranty such work. Dave M. |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
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Customers purchacing their own material (long)
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Customers purchacing their own material (long)
Of course if HE damaged the door I would expect him to pay. If he said
door is damged prior to start I'd take it back to HD. Not a big issue. Why should I pay 30% more for materials anyway? I'm paying for skilled labor that I cant/wont do. thetiler wrote: wrote: needed. Wife and I went to HD picked a nice one out and brought it home. What do you really think the installer would do but jack up the price of the same door he bought at HD? He came installed it I gladly paid himfor his labor. If the door was damaged, in the installation, who pays? If he calls you over and says "hey the window glass is cracked" you'll claim he cracked it trying to install it. All kinds of problems can arise, and I'll tell you from experience, when a customer thinks they're going to lose money, suddenly they're quick to throw out blame. I don't know how your "door installer" pays taxes, insurance licensing fees, corporation fees, accountant fees, etc etc just charging for an installation. It is fair and common to mark up materials at least 30% to cover the cost of above items. The "labor" part is simply like a "wage" to an employee. An ordinary employee gets his "wage", but doesn't have all the other multitude of expenses. Plus the contractor has a lot of running around, consulting, estimating, running his business etc time involved that he isn't getting paid for. thetiler |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
clipped
A professional tile contractor's head is full of knowledge and ideas. It is a shame when people don't access this opportunity to get some fresh ideas and perspective. It isn't about "sales". It isn't about "making money". Any contractor who has this as their goal does a disservice to their customers. What it's "about" is the customer. They are paying a lot of money for the work and tile. They have to live with the result for years as the installer moves on to other things. The goal is to lead the customer to that perfect selection that will fit their needs, then perform an installation that will make their project a success. Customers have friends and family. They want these people to come over and say "hey that looks great". They want to remain satisfied for many years. Contractors and installers who have this customer-first attitude will have no problem getting work, or making money, and will be a blessing to many people. Should the customer purchace materials before consulting with the contractor/installer? I don't think so. thetiler All the points you make are important. Most of my experience with contractors has been over the past 10 years, both privately and in regard to projects our condo association undertook. I believe the most common reasons for problems boil down to two: customers who do not research projects/products in advance so they understand what is at stake, and customers who focus only on lowest cost. Cheap does not equal economical. A customer can't begin to communicate effectively with a contractor until the customer knows the important issues. Neither a customer nor a contractor will know "everything", regardless of experience. For a DIYer, a tile job can be a huge mistake, done wrong. Ripping down bad drywall would be easier and much less costly than tearing up a failed tile job. If I buy a car, I don't buy what the salesman thinks is best for me, although he knows the product better than I. I don't buy any big-ticket item, sight unseen. I don't believe I would order a shipment of any product from a distant source if it cannot be returned with relative ease, especially if breakage or defects are likely AND the product is available locally. I will pay a bit for peace of mind. We had a really bad re-roof job done on our condo, before I lived here. Partly bad installation, partly very poor choice of product. Nobody here did their homework, either before or after. They bought the cheapest job they could find and have paid dearly. Hubby and I interviewed contractors when our condo assn. was ready to paint the building. A couple of owners - the very least talented - had already volunteered to do it themselves. Arghhh..... The contractor we ultimately hired was "no nonsense". His VP and assistant reminded me of Erin Bracovich :o) I had a gut feeling, after about two minutes, that he was "the one". When he came in with the low bid, it got really scary. He got hired, did a fantastic job, was great to deal with. He accepted a bid with less than his ideal rec's for the job, but I think he would have turned it down if he thought it would turn out bad. Customers who let contractors/sellers do their thinking for them will get the shaft. An intelligent plan and a good product make for a good deal, regardless of who sells what. |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
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thetilers 12 step program
"thetiler" wrote in message ups.com... | | Great post. You've said it so much better than I tried. | | they'd be smart to hire him. | finally you admit your incompetence the 1st step to recovery it admitting you have a problem. only 11 more steps to go. get off your knees and ...............wipe that chin. |
thetilers 12 step program
the Home Depot Countertop installer sagacious dolt wrote: finally you admit your incompetence the 1st step to recovery it admitting you have a problem. only 11 more steps to go. What a childish little man. How did you figure out how to post on a newgroup? |
thetilers 12 step program
"thetiler" wrote in message ups.com... | | the Home Depot Countertop installer sagacious dolt wrote: | finally you admit your incompetence | the 1st step to recovery it admitting you have a problem. | only 11 more steps to go. | | What a childish little man. 6ft 3in is far from little..............son How did you figure out how to post | on a newgroup? | POSTING IS THE EASY PART just like ****ing off morons like you. get a real job and stop pretending to be a tiler or let me illiterate for you stop pretending to be "thetiler" |
thetilers 12 step program
the sagacious dolt wrote: get a real job and stop pretending to be a tiler or let me illiterate for you stop pretending to be "thetiler" You've failed to give an ounce of evidence as to why I'm not a tiler. If you doubt anything I post, feel free to counterpost and let's debate the advice I give. Actually you can't because I am an expert, and you're a wee little phoney poster. thetiler |
Customers purchacing their own material (long)
Spoken like a true professional.
Keep up the good work Mr. Tiler |
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