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[email protected] January 3rd 07 01:26 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
Can someone please enlighten me:

I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)

Thanks,

Wilson


[email protected] January 3rd 07 01:51 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.
Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)


What is prompting you to ask this question after 55 years? Breakers
offer more convenience/safety than fuses. How often do you cut power
to a circuit? How often do you blow a (literal) fuse? Does your setup
meet local/national codes?

Personally, I would just grumble about it rather than spend the money
to upgrade, unless it was costing me significant time/money or if it
was required by law.


[email protected] January 3rd 07 02:51 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
If you are thinking about selling the house anytime soon, then get
breakers. Also make sure that you get a panel that is big enough to
accomidate any future circuits or other upgrades. Most likely if you
have fuses you also have way too many things on the same circuit. I'm
reasonably sure that fuses will turn off some buyers. I'm not sure if
there are homeowners insurance ramifications to having fuses, but I
know that they do ask which type you have.


Pete C. January 3rd 07 02:57 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
wrote:

If you are thinking about selling the house anytime soon, then get
breakers. Also make sure that you get a panel that is big enough to
accomidate any future circuits or other upgrades. Most likely if you
have fuses you also have way too many things on the same circuit. I'm
reasonably sure that fuses will turn off some buyers. I'm not sure if
there are homeowners insurance ramifications to having fuses, but I
know that they do ask which type you have.


I know when a friend bought a house a few years back that had 60A fuse
service, his insurance company required him to upgrade it within six
months. I gave him the service upgrade 101 course, he pulled the permit
and did the job himself with no problems and at a cost of a few hundred
dollars in materials.

Pete C.

Bill January 3rd 07 03:24 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
Well if it works, don't fix it!

However if you are having problems with circuits being overloaded and fuses
blowing, then you would need to replace the fuse panel with a breaker panel
so you could add additional circuits. And when doing this work, it would
need to be installed properly to code. If it is not installed to code and
inspected, and there is a fire because of this, then your insurance company
does not have to pay for damages!

Other than that, modern electrical wiring is more safe than old wiring. I
prefer new up to code wiring in my house.


wrote in message
Can someone please enlighten me:

I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)

Thanks,

Wilson




dpb January 3rd 07 05:44 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
wrote:
....
I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)

....

I'm of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" persuasion.

So, unless one or more of several conditions exist, I don't see much,
if any, point.

Is there any functional problem at present (that is, frequent
overloads, flickering, etc., etc.)?

Do you have any intention/need to add more loads and lack circuit space
to do so?

Is the wiring 2- or 3- wire (grounded, iow)? That age is on borderline
to possible be either.

If not grounded, are the baths and kitchen on retrofit GFCI's? That is
a possible "semi-real" consideration for safety. (Note to the bashers
-- I'm not saying there are potential benefits and that shouldn't use
them, only that got along quite nicely for quite some time before they
existed and as long as good condition and common-sense usage, lacking
them now doesn't create an imminent hazard as some seem to think.)

Do you have any intention of trying to sell the house in the near
future? This seems to have become a "hot button" issue w/ many
inspectors/potential buyers for, mostly imo, no _real_ reasons other
than "because". (For really old, 60A or other really low service,
there is some reason and the saw of "insurance" is possibly valid, but
otherwise I also think that it is _mostly_ a strawdog).

Is the condition of the panel and wiring and outlets, etc., still good
as far as can be told?

Overall, have to consider all of the above as an overall evaluation of
whether "it's time" or not and whether there's reason.

As others have noted, it is possible to do an upgrade individually, but
unless one is pretty comfortable and understands what is involved in
doing a proper job, this one is still probably best left to the pro's,
even at the expense to the pocketbook if decide to go ahead.


zxcvbob January 3rd 07 06:39 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
wrote:
Can someone please enlighten me:

I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)

Thanks,

Wilson



Where did you get the $1000+ figure? It shouldn't cost nearly that much
to pull out a 100A panel and replace it with another 100A panel in the
same location -- depending on the particulars, of course. Choose a new
panel carefully so that it fits in the same spot and reuse all the
existing wires.

I'd do a load analysis and see if 100A is adequate (if you have gas
appliances, it probably is) I wouldn't rush to change out a properly
installed and properly sized fuse box.

Bob

CJT January 3rd 07 07:04 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
wrote:

Can someone please enlighten me:

I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)

Thanks,

Wilson

Why do you THINK you should?

I agree with the others -- if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

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CJT January 3rd 07 07:06 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
Pete C. wrote:

wrote:

If you are thinking about selling the house anytime soon, then get
breakers. Also make sure that you get a panel that is big enough to
accomidate any future circuits or other upgrades. Most likely if you
have fuses you also have way too many things on the same circuit. I'm
reasonably sure that fuses will turn off some buyers. I'm not sure if
there are homeowners insurance ramifications to having fuses, but I
know that they do ask which type you have.



I know when a friend bought a house a few years back that had 60A fuse
service, his insurance company required him to upgrade it within six
months. I gave him the service upgrade 101 course, he pulled the permit
and did the job himself with no problems and at a cost of a few hundred
dollars in materials.

Pete C.


I think I'd find another insurer.

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minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Pete C. January 3rd 07 07:23 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (andspend$1000-$1500)
 
CJT wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

wrote:

If you are thinking about selling the house anytime soon, then get
breakers. Also make sure that you get a panel that is big enough to
accomidate any future circuits or other upgrades. Most likely if you
have fuses you also have way too many things on the same circuit. I'm
reasonably sure that fuses will turn off some buyers. I'm not sure if
there are homeowners insurance ramifications to having fuses, but I
know that they do ask which type you have.



I know when a friend bought a house a few years back that had 60A fuse
service, his insurance company required him to upgrade it within six
months. I gave him the service upgrade 101 course, he pulled the permit
and did the job himself with no problems and at a cost of a few hundred
dollars in materials.

Pete C.


I think I'd find another insurer.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .


He tried a number of insurers, that was the only one that would write a
policy. They were fine with everything but the electrical and at least
they were willing to write a policy with that condition.

Certainly the upgrade project was no big deal and not expensive. As it
was an upgrade was on his agenda anyway to properly support the basement
wood shop, it was just on a faster timetable due to the insurance issue.

Pete C.

[email protected] January 3rd 07 07:34 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
Insurance safety and resale value.

whats the overall condition of the service entrance cable? fuses are
regarded by home inspectors and insurance and mortage companies to be
inferior to breakers, and there are no arc fault fuses for bedroom and
other circuits.

have any old K&T in your home? how many fuses do you have and how many
for expansion? just a upgraded kitchen takes about 7 to meet current
code with all the common appliances.

Why do people think you paint every 7 years but assume wiring should
last FOREVER?


[email protected] January 3rd 07 07:54 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
I know insurance might make them do it, but personally I'd trust 55
year old fuses over 55 year old breakers.


dpb January 3rd 07 08:30 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
wrote:
Insurance safety and resale value.

whats the overall condition of the service entrance cable? fuses are
regarded by home inspectors and insurance and mortage companies to be
inferior to breakers, and there are no arc fault fuses for bedroom and
other circuits.

have any old K&T in your home? how many fuses do you have and how many
for expansion? just a upgraded kitchen takes about 7 to meet current
code with all the common appliances.

Why do people think you paint every 7 years but assume wiring should
last FOREVER?


Primarily because paint is exposed to the air and dirty hands of
kiddies, sunlight for UV fading, etc., etc., etc., and so suffers
direct damage that needs repair. Wiring, otoh, sits there undisturbed
in the dark doing nothing and has very little, if any, reason for
needing renewing unless disturbed or other factors cause need for it.

K&T in a 1950's-built house???? Aww, come off it. K&T went out at
least 20 years before then... :(

The questions of present service adequacy are ok, but unless there's
expansion on the horizon or an existing indication of overloading, so
what about expandability? It's not an issue until there is an issue.

Same thing w/ insurance and/or resale. If no plans, no problem. His
premiums undoubtedly will not be reduced if makes the change.


Tom The Great January 3rd 07 08:35 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
On 3 Jan 2007 05:26:52 -0800, wrote:

Can someone please enlighten me:

I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)

Thanks,

Wilson


imho:

Contact your insurance company, you might find they charge you a
little extra since you have fuses. Also check with your accountant if
there are any rebate, or tax benifits to upgrading your homes
equipment.

Just some ideas.....

tom @
www.Consolidated-Loans.info


[email protected] January 3rd 07 09:15 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
Primarily because paint is exposed to the air and dirty hands of
kiddies, sunlight for UV fading, etc., etc., etc., and so suffers
direct damage that needs repair. Wiring, otoh, sits there undisturbed
in the dark doing nothing and has very little, if any, reason for
needing renewing unless disturbed or other factors cause need for it.


Main service entrance cables detoriate, fuse boxes rust, fuse blocks
detoriate, stuff getws overloaded and often needd upgrades are put off.
Lots of stuff like fridges and freezers should be on a dedicated
breaker


K&T in a 1950's-built house???? Aww, come off it. K&T went out at
least 20 years before then... :(


NOT in all areas of the country


The questions of present service adequacy are ok, but unless there's
expansion on the horizon or an existing indication of overloading, so
what about expandability? It's not an issue until there is an issue.

Same thing w/ insurance and/or resale. If no plans, no problem. His
premiums undoubtedly will not be reduced if makes the change.


had a friend whos insurance company got sold, new insurance company
demanded he rebuild his porch and upgrade his wiring, and fix sidewalks
and add handrails to steps.

I think its better to keep up with troubles than wait and have a
monumental bill at one inconvenient time


Pete C. January 3rd 07 09:31 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
wrote:

On 3 Jan 2007 11:54:51 -0800,
wrote:

I know insurance might make them do it, but personally I'd trust 55
year old fuses over 55 year old breakers.


That is the real point. Fuses are a whole lot safer than breakers, all
else being equal. Fuses always fail "open". Breakers can fail shorted.
Take a look at the CPSC articles on Federal Pacific.
If you have a capacity problem and you are blowing fuses you may need
better load balancing or an upgrade but if you are not blowing,
properly sized fuses, I do not see the problem. I can't imagine any
insurance company refusing insurance on a home with fuses and type S
adapters (that prevent overfusing) since it is code legal in the NEC
2005 to install that panel in a new house today.


In case you haven't noticed, insurance companies pay no attention to
accepted codes and just make whatever arbitrary rules they want to, with
no government agency stepping in to correct their overreaching.

Pete C.

CJT January 3rd 07 09:39 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
wrote:

Primarily because paint is exposed to the air and dirty hands of
kiddies, sunlight for UV fading, etc., etc., etc., and so suffers
direct damage that needs repair. Wiring, otoh, sits there undisturbed
in the dark doing nothing and has very little, if any, reason for
needing renewing unless disturbed or other factors cause need for it.



Main service entrance cables detoriate, fuse boxes rust, fuse blocks
detoriate, stuff getws overloaded and often needd upgrades are put off.
Lots of stuff like fridges and freezers should be on a dedicated
breaker


snip

Then why don't we see people here recommending changing breaker boxes
after 20 years?

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Pete C. January 3rd 07 09:44 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (andspend$1000-$1500)
 
CJT wrote:

wrote:

Primarily because paint is exposed to the air and dirty hands of
kiddies, sunlight for UV fading, etc., etc., etc., and so suffers
direct damage that needs repair. Wiring, otoh, sits there undisturbed
in the dark doing nothing and has very little, if any, reason for
needing renewing unless disturbed or other factors cause need for it.



Main service entrance cables detoriate, fuse boxes rust, fuse blocks
detoriate, stuff getws overloaded and often needd upgrades are put off.
Lots of stuff like fridges and freezers should be on a dedicated
breaker


snip

Then why don't we see people here recommending changing breaker boxes
after 20 years?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .


I don't know, but I have personally read insurance documents noting
higher premiums for electrical older than 30 years regardless of the
type.

Pete C.

dpb January 3rd 07 11:45 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

wrote:
Primarily because paint is exposed to the air and dirty hands of
kiddies, sunlight for UV fading, etc., etc., etc., and so suffers
direct damage that needs repair. Wiring, otoh, sits there undisturbed
in the dark doing nothing and has very little, if any, reason for
needing renewing unless disturbed or other factors cause need for it.


Main service entrance cables detoriate, fuse boxes rust, fuse blocks
detoriate, stuff getws overloaded and often needd upgrades are put off.
Lots of stuff like fridges and freezers should be on a dedicated
breaker


I've yet to see the first, the second indicates a moisture problem,
haven't any reason to think the third is an issue for OP. Certainly
have 50- and 60-yr old boxes here that don't show any signs of any of
these problems. At worst, there's some cosmetic rust and faded paint.

The rest is a possible issue which I addressed and don't disagree, but
again, unless there is a problem, there is no problem. Changing for
change's sake is totally unnecessary.

K&T in a 1950's-built house???? Aww, come off it. K&T went out at
least 20 years before then... :(


NOT in all areas of the country


I'd think you would be hard pressed to find a house built in the 50s w/
K&T. Don't say there might not have been a few, but I suspect it would
have been _very_ few. Remember, that was the era of post-WWII and
Korea when the GI housing boom was at its peak and virtually anything
and everything possible to speed up construction was being done. K&T
ain't on that list.



The questions of present service adequacy are ok, but unless there's
expansion on the horizon or an existing indication of overloading, so
what about expandability? It's not an issue until there is an issue.

Same thing w/ insurance and/or resale. If no plans, no problem. His
premiums undoubtedly will not be reduced if makes the change.


had a friend whos insurance company got sold, new insurance company
demanded he rebuild his porch and upgrade his wiring, and fix sidewalks
and add handrails to steps.

I think its better to keep up with troubles than wait and have a
monumental bill at one inconvenient time


You're free to make your choices, of course. Don't think your
recommendations (and most especially, over-generalizations) are
necessarily valid for others, however.

As for the one incident w/ a friend, those items other than wiring
could well have been immediate safety hazards and possibly a good idea
to limit liability. Can't comment on the wiring of course, nothing
about it is given to even form the wildest conjecture. But then again,
this friend might have just gone to another insurance company and had
no problem continuing on as he was...


[email protected] January 4th 07 03:19 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 


My insurance agent (allstate) is 200 miles away and has never seem my
house. Where does this stuff come from?


my friend will had his insurance company sold and the new company
checked every home.

currently a good friends main power line is in poor shape the cables
out covering is falling apart from age and the head looks bad too.

he is to cheap to replace it and upgrade.......... of course he has K&T
wiring too/

just the other day he admitted his home is a wreck. it doesnt belong to
him its tied up till his death in a 30 year estate thingy.....

since it really belongsa to no one none want to spend money on repairs
or upgrades. its a wierd situation


John Gilmer January 4th 07 04:02 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

"CJT" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Can someone please enlighten me:

I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend
$1000-$1500)

Thanks,

Wilson

Why do you THINK you should?

I agree with the others -- if it ain't broken, don't fix it.


Well, we have a 30 year old rental property with fuses. We are "fixing it
up" because our tenant moved on after about 8 years.

We didn't "upgrade" before because we were short of cash (we used our extra
cash to get into a bigger house while keeping the old one as an investment.)

But now we have the time and money.

Why "upgrade?"

Our fusebox was on the small size with 12 single pole circuits plus two pole
circuits for the AC, stove, and clothes dryer. The two pole circuits have
two cartridge fuses in a holder.

The "upgrade" gets us:

1) MUCH better protection on the 240 volt circuits whereby a fault will
completely clear the circuit rather than leaving it "half hot." In the 10
years we lived there we only blew a fuse on the 240 volts circuits once; it
was from a loose wire inside the stove.

2) The potential to "un share" circuits as we can. Right now, for
example, the dishwasher shares a circuit with a counter outlet (or two or
??).

3) The ability to add circuits. We want to put in an "over the oven"
microwave. Without the upgrade we would have to "share" an existing
circuit.

4) Too much on one circuit: the house was wired with one fuse
controlling the "inner bath" lights AND the "sink outlet" AND the master
bedroom ceiling AND the bedroom outlets.

5) NO spares.

6) Temptation to overfuse. Most of the wires I looked at (at the
outlet/J-box) appear to be a lot of #14. The tenant doesn't have just 15
amp fuses in the box!

7) Occasional difficulty in restoring service after a fault. If you blow
a cartridge fuse, it can be hard to get what you want. And you never seem
to have the fuse you really want.


The bonus is the extra features you can get. The GFCI capability has been
mentioned. (Although I tend to prefer GFCIs on individual outlets.) The
"arc fault" breaker seems to me to offer some safety advantages. I noted,
however, that the kitchen counter GFCI seems to have been messed up by
crumbs from the toaster (or something?). Anyway, it didn't trip on the
test switch. (It didn't "Fail Safe.") But that's a different topic.

Also, at least one make has provisions for a "dual feed" to the main bus
whereby you have TWO "main" breakers. There is a mechanical interlock so
that only one breaker can be "ON" at any time. Basically, you have a VERY
high capacity transfer switch as part of your installation. Since my
rental is "in town" that's not so important as power there is reliable.

Among our "upgrades" will be the removal of the crappy "paneling" used in a
basement remodel. The junk wasn't rated for below grade use and it SHOWED.
I will have all the walls in the basement exposed before the electrician
comes for the upgrade. It will almost be like "New Work."

Often remodeling isn't cost effective. It's cheaper to sell you house and
buy another with better "stuff" than to upgrade your own home. But beyond
some point, the lack of upgrades will be such that no matter how well your
home "shows," it's basically a "fixer upper."



[email protected] January 4th 07 01:53 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
when its time to SELL

you either take a really low price selling as is or are then forced to
spend big bucks upgrading all the stuff you avoided spending money on.

so you styill spend it and probably more since inflation keeps on
driving up prices and sadly you still spend the money but get zip use
of it, if your finally fioxing up to sell.


dpb January 4th 07 02:57 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

wrote:
when its time to SELL

you either take a really low price selling as is or are then forced to
spend big bucks upgrading all the stuff you avoided spending money on.

so you styill spend it and probably more since inflation keeps on
driving up prices and sadly you still spend the money but get zip use
of it, if your finally fioxing up to sell.


That is a flawed logic over-generalization, too. The money not spent
on something unneeded was available for investment (or even other
discretionary use) for that period of time and very may well have
brought an equivalent or even higher return in the market than the
differential on the house.

The point is, while there are valid reasons for upgrading service,
"just because" isn't one of them.


dpb January 4th 07 05:02 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

wrote:
On 3 Jan 2007 15:45:30 -0800, "dpb" wrote:

Remember, that was the era of post-WWII and
Korea when the GI housing boom was at its peak and virtually anything
and everything possible to speed up construction was being done. K&T
ain't on that list.


GI Bill houses were inspected by the government. A 50s era new home
that went "GI Bill" had a grounded wiring method unless some inspector
was ignoring the rules. As late as the 70s there were still lots of
builders who would not build a GI home because of the stricter codes.
(No aluminum for one thing)


Yes, but I wasn't really even referring to actual GI-Bill houses
themselves but that the overall demand for housing at that time was
tremendous and that demand alone predicated the abandonment of any
style of construction that wasn't the most efficient possible in time
and material -- and, specifically, that K&T was/is, if anything,
labor-intensive on installation. Was just trying to supply some
context to get Haller into at least the right half-century here.... :)

Was an interesting article in Fine Homebuilding a few months ago about
the CA boom and how the only way a crew could make a living was to be
absolutely the most efficient possible in everything. Was written by
one of the early framers so was mostly from that viewpoint, but quite
entertaining and informative, particularly if not old enough to
remember the era personally.


[email protected] January 4th 07 09:57 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

dpb wrote:
wrote:
when its time to SELL

you either take a really low price selling as is or are then forced to
spend big bucks upgrading all the stuff you avoided spending money on.

so you styill spend it and probably more since inflation keeps on
driving up prices and sadly you still spend the money but get zip use
of it, if your finally fioxing up to sell.


That is a flawed logic over-generalization, too. The money not spent
on something unneeded was available for investment (or even other
discretionary use) for that period of time and very may well have
brought an equivalent or even higher return in the market than the
differential on the house.

The point is, while there are valid reasons for upgrading service,
"just because" isn't one of them.


at home sale time fuses will be a big turn off, lack arc fault, and
even if your home is otherwise perfect your sale price will likely be
less


CJT January 4th 07 10:01 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
wrote:

dpb wrote:

wrote:

when its time to SELL

you either take a really low price selling as is or are then forced to
spend big bucks upgrading all the stuff you avoided spending money on.

so you styill spend it and probably more since inflation keeps on
driving up prices and sadly you still spend the money but get zip use
of it, if your finally fioxing up to sell.


That is a flawed logic over-generalization, too. The money not spent
on something unneeded was available for investment (or even other
discretionary use) for that period of time and very may well have
brought an equivalent or even higher return in the market than the
differential on the house.

The point is, while there are valid reasons for upgrading service,
"just because" isn't one of them.



at home sale time fuses will be a big turn off, lack arc fault, and
even if your home is otherwise perfect your sale price will likely be
less

I think that's questionable. The price shouldn't change by more than
the cost of an upgrade, which shouldn't be all that large.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

[email protected] January 4th 07 10:08 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 


at home sale time fuses will be a big turn off, lack arc fault, and
even if your home is otherwise perfect your sale price will likely be
less

I think that's questionable. The price shouldn't change by more than
the cost of an upgrade, which shouldn't be all that large.


You dont understand I recently sold a home about 90% of todays buyers
want move in turn key homes with no issues.

probably not true of most posters here, but we like home repairs.

elminate 90% of shoppers makes selling a LOT HARDER

do you really want fewer peoiple interested in your home ecause it
appears obsolete?


dpb January 4th 07 11:33 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

wrote:
dpb wrote:
wrote:
when its time to SELL

you either take a really low price selling as is or are then forced to
spend big bucks upgrading all the stuff you avoided spending money on.

so you styill spend it and probably more since inflation keeps on
driving up prices and sadly you still spend the money but get zip use
of it, if your finally fioxing up to sell.


That is a flawed logic over-generalization, too. The money not spent
on something unneeded was available for investment (or even other
discretionary use) for that period of time and very may well have
brought an equivalent or even higher return in the market than the
differential on the house.

The point is, while there are valid reasons for upgrading service,
"just because" isn't one of them.


at home sale time fuses will be a big turn off, lack arc fault, and
even if your home is otherwise perfect your sale price will likely be
less


Maybe, maybe not. Easy enough to rectify at the time if so.


[email protected] January 5th 07 03:13 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

at home sale time fuses will be a big turn off, lack arc fault, and
even if your home is otherwise perfect your sale price will likely be
less


Maybe, maybe not. Easy enough to rectify at the time if so.


its really not a good idea to put off too much for time of sale

you might not have the bucks needed to do all that needs done

you might not have lots of time to do the upgrades

its often easy to avoid fixing or upgrading stuff, but some day you
have to pay the piper.

odd people think nothing of buying a new car every 6 years at maybe 15
grand a shot but get all distraught about spending a grand upgrading
their homes electrical system. heck atr ;least homes appreciate,
vehicles just go down in value


HeyBub January 5th 07 03:51 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
wrote:

odd people think nothing of buying a new car every 6 years at maybe 15
grand a shot but get all distraught about spending a grand upgrading
their homes electrical system. heck atr ;least homes appreciate,
vehicles just go down in value


Question: How can you make it last an hour? Oh, wait, wrong question. Start
over.

Question: Where can you get a new car for $15,000?



Pete C. January 5th 07 04:53 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
HeyBub wrote:

wrote:

odd people think nothing of buying a new car every 6 years at maybe 15
grand a shot but get all distraught about spending a grand upgrading
their homes electrical system. heck atr ;least homes appreciate,
vehicles just go down in value


Question: How can you make it last an hour? Oh, wait, wrong question. Start
over.

Question: Where can you get a new car for $15,000?


I think any of the Korean brands have some decent cars around that
price.

dpb January 5th 07 05:39 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

wrote:
at home sale time fuses will be a big turn off, lack arc fault, and
even if your home is otherwise perfect your sale price will likely be
less


Maybe, maybe not. Easy enough to rectify at the time if so.


its really not a good idea to put off too much for time of sale

you might not have the bucks needed to do all that needs done

you might not have lots of time to do the upgrades

its often easy to avoid fixing or upgrading stuff, but some day you
have to pay the piper.


And when the day comes, so be it. Until then, better investments are
likely to be had elsewhere. Making those wisely takes care of the
rest.

Again, I reiterate. There are reasons for upgrading. OP gave none
that qualify including no indication of an anticipated need or desire
to sell. You throw out straw men of "maybes" and "what ifs" and
"future will be's". I have no problem w/ upgrading for any of the
several circumstances previously itemized and a potential sale is
possibly one altho rather far down on my list. Rarely, however, would
that be such a precipitous event that w/ even the barest modicum of
planning it couldn't be accommodated in a timely fashion if deemed
desirable a priori. In most instances unless there is a serious
problem which as I have already agreed _should_ have been previously
resolved, it is plenty early enough to have it be part of any
negotiations given an offer in hand. You can accept an offer, reject
an offer, provide a counter-offer and get the value you think
necessary. If you're uncomfortable enough about dealing with it in
that fashion so you want to do something ahead of time, then again,
fine; that's your privilege. Just don't try to make it that your way
is the only way as others simply don't see the world w/ the same set of
lenses.
....


[email protected] January 5th 07 01:23 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:

odd people think nothing of buying a new car every 6 years at maybe 15
grand a shot but get all distraught about spending a grand upgrading
their homes electrical system. heck atr ;least homes appreciate,
vehicles just go down in value


Question: How can you make it last an hour? Oh, wait, wrong question. Start
over.

Question: Where can you get a new car for $15,000?


My wifes cobalt was under that but my real point is most folks buy and
trade, so the actual lowball cost might be 15 grand a pop.

like I said think of ALL the stuff you spend money on in a lifetime why
should your homes electrical system be starved? it because its hidden
and you cant see it......

if it was the focal point of your living room you wouldnt object to
spending big bucks....

or sitting in your driveway, again its a display thing.


dpb January 5th 07 02:35 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
wrote:

odd people think nothing of buying a new car every 6 years at maybe 15
grand a shot but get all distraught about spending a grand upgrading
their homes electrical system. heck atr ;least homes appreciate,
vehicles just go down in value


Question: How can you make it last an hour? Oh, wait, wrong question. Start
over.

Question: Where can you get a new car for $15,000?


My wifes cobalt was under that but my real point is most folks buy and
trade, so the actual lowball cost might be 15 grand a pop.

like I said think of ALL the stuff you spend money on in a lifetime why
should your homes electrical system be starved? it because its hidden
and you cant see it......

if it was the focal point of your living room you wouldnt object to
spending big bucks....

or sitting in your driveway, again its a display thing.


Again I reiterate -- no, this is a false analogy. I have items in my
living room I look at every day that are 100 years old and are not
going to be replaced (in fact, for some of them, their inherent value
is tied directly to both that age and would be almost completely
destroyed if they were to be "upgraded" and/or modified. The point is
that _UNLESS_ there is an actual reason other than "because" there are
more cost-effective places to put the investment and most people
recognize that.


AZ Nomad January 5th 07 04:18 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 
On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:53:42 -0600, Pete C. wrote:


HeyBub wrote:

wrote:

odd people think nothing of buying a new car every 6 years at maybe 15
grand a shot but get all distraught about spending a grand upgrading
their homes electrical system. heck atr ;least homes appreciate,
vehicles just go down in value


Question: How can you make it last an hour? Oh, wait, wrong question. Start
over.

Question: Where can you get a new car for $15,000?


I think any of the Korean brands have some decent cars around that
price.


The trick is to not crash a car every 6 months. If you have something worth
trading in then it doesn't cost $30K/yr.

[email protected] January 5th 07 09:29 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

well arc fault breakers can prevent fires.....

is that not another reason to upgrade? safety?

i know folks who buy new cars to get air bags and other safety
equiptement.


dpb January 5th 07 10:11 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

wrote:
well arc fault breakers can prevent fires.....

is that not another reason to upgrade? safety?

i know folks who buy new cars to get air bags and other safety
equiptement.


Possibly. What fraction of household electrical fires are
fuse-panel-related/caused to begin with? What fraction would
replacement of the fuse panel w/ a circuit breaker panel prevent? What
fraction of those would a arc-fault breaker of those prevent that?

I don't have statistics, but I'd venture the relative risk of the
automobile being involved in an accident is multiple times that of the
fire risk that a replacement fuse panel would have prevented so the
differential benefit is heavily weighted on the side of the car vis a
vis the panel.


CJT January 5th 07 10:28 PM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend$1000-$1500)
 
dpb wrote:

wrote:

well arc fault breakers can prevent fires.....

is that not another reason to upgrade? safety?

i know folks who buy new cars to get air bags and other safety
equiptement.



Possibly. What fraction of household electrical fires are
fuse-panel-related/caused to begin with? What fraction would
replacement of the fuse panel w/ a circuit breaker panel prevent? What
fraction of those would a arc-fault breaker of those prevent that?


How many fires have been caused by replacing fused panels with circuit
breaker panels? I feel confident it has happened; all construction
activities carry some risk of incidents either during or as a result of
them.

I don't have statistics, but I'd venture the relative risk of the
automobile being involved in an accident is multiple times that of the
fire risk that a replacement fuse panel would have prevented so the
differential benefit is heavily weighted on the side of the car vis a
vis the panel.



--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

John Gilmer January 6th 07 01:20 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 


Contact your insurance company, you might find they charge you a
little extra since you have fuses. Also check with your accountant if
there are any rebate, or tax benifits to upgrading your homes
equipment.


I have NEVER had an insurance company ask about whether there were CBs or
fuses.

Perhaps if a company had some bad experience with fuses they might get
particular but folks who can "live with" fuses don't tend to stress the
power system in the first place.




[email protected] January 6th 07 03:38 AM

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)
 

John Gilmer wrote:
Contact your insurance company, you might find they charge you a
little extra since you have fuses. Also check with your accountant if
there are any rebate, or tax benifits to upgrading your homes
equipment.


I have NEVER had an insurance company ask about whether there were CBs or
fuses.

Perhaps if a company had some bad experience with fuses they might get
particular but folks who can "live with" fuses don't tend to stress the
power system in the first place.


Ahh google fuses and insurance. it tlks of insurance hassles mostly for
new customers

people with fuses do sress them, mostly by overfusing installing
heavier uses than sae to minimize them blowing.

just living stresses electrical systems, at the time fuses boxes were
popualr we didnt have nearly so many electrical appliances, most
entrances were 60 amp 4 fuses. heck today you need more than that just
for the kitchen



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