I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't be
that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers just
for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

My Kitchen has 6 breakers.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't
be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers
just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The
garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't be
that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers just
for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?


I know you need at least two 20A small appliance circuits.

(Depending a little on the kitchen layout) I would put the fridge,
microwave, gas stove ignitor, and vent hood together on one 20A circuit.
Another 20A circuit for half the countertop outlets and the dishwasher, and
another 20A for the other countertop outlets and the disposal. That's
three 20's, and no electric range yet. The latest code may very well
require another circuit for the dishwasher, microwave, or fridge that I've
doubled-up; they've gone a little crazy lately IMHO about the required
number of circuits.

You've also got the lights, and the convenience outlet along at least one
non-countertop wall to deal with (but those could be picked up by circuits
for the other rooms.)

Adding the extra circuits that you think are silly is easier than arguing
with the inspector or code compliance office, and usually doesn't add that
much to the cost. They may actually come in handy someday when you want to
run a food processor, microwave, dishwasher, and two electric roasters, all
at the same time.

Bob

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't
be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers
just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The
garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?


Go to the library and look at the NEC code book. My suggestion is that
every countertop outlet have its own breaker. Think about it. You plug in
the roaster and the electric griddle, run the toaster, etc. The roaster and
electric griddle will each come close to maxing out a 15a circuit. The
toaster will take a good of another 15a circuit. The kitchen is the highest
draw of the house, especially for a party! If you are going to do this you
might just as well do it right the first time and not regret it for years
afterwards.

Mike D.

The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Refrigerators use about 600watts. A normal microwave 1100 watts.
Throw in a toaster or toaster oven and you'll get another 1000 watts.

I have always been told to put the frig on a seperate circuit.
Sometimes one plug as well. I just gutted my kitchen and put the frig
and one plug on a single circuit. My two cents...

Its code and for good reason! Your microwave might be 600 watts, but a
new one can be twice that!

Kitchens are large energy users, and need adquate wiring!

Then put furnace, washer, dryer, garage, outdoor outlets, AC, bath,
sump pump, basement freezer, all on seperate circuits too

wrote in message
...
The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Refrigerators use about 600watts. A normal microwave 1100 watts.
Throw in a toaster or toaster oven and you'll get another 1000 watts.

Well I guess. It just seems like so damn wasteful to me. But I guess the
numbers don't lie, just right there is 2 20 amp circuits plus a 15 for the
fridge.

When did this become common/required?

It might be because I don't have a lot of things in the kitchen, I don't own
a microwave, nor a toaster oven, don't have a dishwasher or a garbage
disposal, I don't drink coffee either. So maybe I'm questioning this
because I don't have to deal with all that crap. Doesn't mean I shouldn't
put it in, if only so that my house has better resale value. And who knows
maybe I'll marry some daddy's little princess who'll insist on all that
junk.

Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't be
that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers just
for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

NEC code allows a 15 A or greater separate circuit for refrigerators.
This is a common sense thing, as you don't want the fridge to quit
because you tripped out the breaker with a waffle iron on the same
circuit and didn't realize it. Some local buiding codes require the
fridge to be all by itself, and freezers as well. As always, call city
hall and ask. Inspectors are not all boobs, and can often explain the
rationale for the rules.
You know the kitchen must have GFCI's now, right? And 20 A receptacles
are the norm in many codes.
The typical 200 A service entrance has space for so many breakers now
that using a half dozen spaces for the kitchen isn't any probklem. With
breakers only $6 now, doing a tidy job isn't a budget buster. ood luck.

Joe

"Eigenvector" wrote in message

The garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave?
The refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

So the crockpot causes a breaker to pop and now the refrigerator is left not
running for the next 8 hours. That does not make sense to me, but having a
dedicated circuit sure does. Of course, you don't want the room to go dark
if the toaster fries, so there is a separate circuit for lighting. You
already agree on the oven and disposal, so how many breakers make sense now?

Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't be
that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers just
for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?


Hi,
Our kitchen is fed by a sub-panel. main panel is located in the
basement. Lights, counter top outlets(duplex receptacles are all split),
Oven, Fridge, M/W, Dishwasher, Garburater, etc.

I have 6, and my refrigerator is on the same circuit as some outlets, so I
probably need 7 to meet current code.
Also, my garbage disposal and dishwasher share a circuit, some would say
that is wrong; so 8.
When entertaining we have to move coffee pots into other rooms since we
don't have enough amps on the two outlet circuits, so 9.
More than 9 is probably excessive...
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't
be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers
just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The
garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/
and
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/

Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't be
that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers just
for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

Joe wrote:
...

NEC code allows a 15 A or greater separate circuit for refrigerators.
This is a common sense thing, as you don't want the fridge to quit
because you tripped out the breaker with a waffle iron on the same
circuit and didn't realize it. Some local buiding codes require the
fridge to be all by itself, and freezers as well.
...

Joe

Yea, but in real life having a second item on the circuit with a freezer
or frig is a very good idea. A clock or night light is good. After all, do
you really want to find out your freezer circuit went out three weeks after
it tripped?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Joe wrote:
...

NEC code allows a 15 A or greater separate circuit for refrigerators.
This is a common sense thing, as you don't want the fridge to quit
because you tripped out the breaker with a waffle iron on the same
circuit and didn't realize it. Some local buiding codes require the
fridge to be all by itself, and freezers as well.

Yea, but in real life having a second item on the circuit with a freezer
or frig is a very good idea. A clock or night light is good. After all, do
you really want to find out your freezer circuit went out three weeks after
it tripped?

On the other hand... if you go three weeks without ever opening the freezer,
do you really even need one?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

snip

FWIW ... My smaller kitchen ... fridge 15A, microwave 15A, 2 additional
split outlets to serve both ends of the 8' counter (15A x 4). So that's
6 breakers plus the stove (40A x 2). And I'm in the process of gutting
a bigger room to relocate that kitchen. When I do, I'll require at
least one additional split outlet for the longer counter top surface.

Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we
got on the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to
do one of these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to
have separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal,
the oven (obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions
can't be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4
breakers just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double
pull. The garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the
microwave? The refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so
many specialized breakers to meet today's code?

Personal opinion: My fridge isn't on its own breaker; it's sharing the can
opener outlet and there's a nightlight in it. Reason is, if the power to
the fridge goes out for some reason, whether it's the fridge fault or not, I
KNOW sooner!
That said, it's usually more convenient to have the fridge plug in behind
itself so the cord isn't in sight - neater appearance.

I don't think 4 breakers is at all unreasonable' in fact, I think it's
light.
1. Lights
2 & 3: Alternating counter outlets in double duplexes along long counter.
uwave, mixer, etc. etc..
4. Stove
5. Fridge & accessories
6. Along sink counter & "L" of sink counter
7. Outlets near door to living room (for vacuums, etc).
8. Dishwasher
Seems like I'm missing one but it might just be the gfci's making me feel
that way.

zxcvbob wrote:
Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we
got on the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to
do one of these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to
have separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code.
He mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal,
the oven (obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions
can't be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST
4 breakers just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a
double pull. The garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch,
but the microwave? The refrigerator? These are not huge energy
consumers. Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of
needing so
many specialized breakers to meet today's code?


I know you need at least two 20A small appliance circuits.

(Depending a little on the kitchen layout) I would put the fridge,
microwave, gas stove ignitor, and vent hood together on one 20A
circuit. Another 20A circuit for half the countertop outlets and the
dishwasher, and another 20A for the other countertop outlets and the
disposal. That's three 20's, and no electric range yet. The latest
code may very well require another circuit for the dishwasher,
microwave, or fridge that I've doubled-up; they've gone a little
crazy lately IMHO about the required number of circuits.

You've also got the lights, and the convenience outlet along at least
one non-countertop wall to deal with (but those could be picked up by
circuits for the other rooms.)

Adding the extra circuits that you think are silly is easier than
arguing with the inspector or code compliance office, and usually
doesn't add that much to the cost. They may actually come in handy
someday when you want to run a food processor, microwave, dishwasher,
and two electric roasters, all at the same time.

Bob

Yes, and a call to the local code office for details is quick, informative
and painless because there is more to it than simply quantity of ckts.

Pop`

Pop` wrote:
Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we
got on the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to
do one of these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to
have separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal,
the oven (obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions
can't be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4
breakers just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double
pull. The garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the
microwave? The refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so
many specialized breakers to meet today's code?

Personal opinion: My fridge isn't on its own breaker; it's sharing the can
opener outlet and there's a nightlight in it. Reason is, if the power to
the fridge goes out for some reason, whether it's the fridge fault or not, I
KNOW sooner!
That said, it's usually more convenient to have the fridge plug in behind
itself so the cord isn't in sight - neater appearance.

I don't think 4 breakers is at all unreasonable' in fact, I think it's
light.
1. Lights
2 & 3: Alternating counter outlets in double duplexes along long counter.
uwave, mixer, etc. etc..
4. Stove
5. Fridge & accessories
6. Along sink counter & "L" of sink counter
7. Outlets near door to living room (for vacuums, etc).
8. Dishwasher
Seems like I'm missing one but it might just be the gfci's making me feel
that way.

Fridge SHOULD NOT be GFCI but canopener must be.

Fridge should plug in behind unit so remaining duplex outlet isnt used
for anything else, or single outlet for fridge. Same for basement
freezers

Pop` wrote:
Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we
got on the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to
do one of these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to
have separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal,
the oven (obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions
can't be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4
breakers just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double
pull. The garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the
microwave? The refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so
many specialized breakers to meet today's code?

Personal opinion: My fridge isn't on its own breaker; it's sharing the can
opener outlet and there's a nightlight in it. Reason is, if the power to
the fridge goes out for some reason, whether it's the fridge fault or not, I
KNOW sooner!
That said, it's usually more convenient to have the fridge plug in behind
itself so the cord isn't in sight - neater appearance.

I don't think 4 breakers is at all unreasonable' in fact, I think it's
light.
1. Lights
2 & 3: Alternating counter outlets in double duplexes along long counter.
uwave, mixer, etc. etc..
4. Stove
5. Fridge & accessories
6. Along sink counter & "L" of sink counter
7. Outlets near door to living room (for vacuums, etc).
8. Dishwasher
Seems like I'm missing one but it might just be the gfci's making me feel
that way.

Fridge SHOULD NOT be GFCI but can opener must be.

Fridge should plug in behind unit so remaining duplex outlet isnt used
for anything else, or single outlet for fridge. Same for basement
freezers

According to code, You need (2) small appliance Countertop circuitts,
Refridgerator, micro, dishwasher garbage disposal Electric range/
cooktop need a two pole breaker, a trash compactor and general lighting
All should have thier own 12/ 2 awg 20 amp circuits



Eigenvector wrote:
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't be
that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers just
for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The garbage
disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

I have 12 breakers for my kitchen and that doesn't count the oven nor the
cooktop.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't
be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers
just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The
garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
I have 12 breakers for my kitchen and that doesn't count the oven nor the
cooktop.


Well obviously you have a larger kitchen than I do, but that doesn't matter
really. I take it NONE of you have the old 100A 12 slot breaker boxes -
otherwise the notion of having that many breakers is totally out of it.

Anyway, thanks all for the clarification, I learned something new today.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the oven
(obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions can't
be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4 breakers
just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double pull. The
garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the microwave? The
refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so many
specialized breakers to meet today's code?

Well obviously you have a larger kitchen than I do, but that doesn't matter
really. I take it NONE of you have the old 100A 12 slot breaker boxes -
otherwise the notion of having that many breakers is totally out of it.

Anyway, thanks all for the clarification, I learned something new today.


you can probably install thin breakers doubling the number of circuits,
although the box gets jammed and you may run short on neutral bus bars
and have to add one

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
I have 12 breakers for my kitchen and that doesn't count the oven nor the
cooktop.


Well obviously you have a larger kitchen than I do, but that doesn't
matter really. I take it NONE of you have the old 100A 12 slot breaker
boxes - otherwise the notion of having that many breakers is totally out
of it.

Actually, I do have an original 100 amp box that would take 12 full size
breakers, it has a few half size breakers and a number of 60 amp double full
size ones that feed sub panels. There are 3 subpanels, one to feed an
extension to the house which contains the current kitchen, one for my
workshop and one that is a transfer panel for a generator that holds all the
"vital" circuits from thoughout the house to be fed from the genny in case
of emergency.



Anyway, thanks all for the clarification, I learned something new today.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I was talking to a friend about my projects around the home and we got on
the subject of re-wiring the kitchen. Something I'll have to do one of
these days.

Anyway, when we discussed it he mentioned something about having to have
separate breakers for certain appliances in order to meet code. He
mentioned the refrigerator, the microwave, the garbage disposal, the
oven (obviously).

Something in the back of my mind is thinking, the code restrictions
can't be that inane, to the point where you'd have to have at LEAST 4
breakers just for the kitchen alone, and one of them will be a double
pull. The garbage disposal I can see, the oven is a cinch, but the
microwave? The refrigerator? These are not huge energy consumers.

Is my buddy out there in left field with this business of needing so
many specialized breakers to meet today's code?