Is there someone out there who can clarify a mystery for me. I have just
bought all sorts of titanium drill bits and have other tools that they say
contain titanium. I don't get it, working on a titanium aircraft part with a
normal chrome molly tool will destroy that titanium part. So how can they
alloy or coat a drill bit that won't react to itself or to the part you are
working on at the molecular level? The only explanation I can think of right
now is that the titanium they mention is bull and is just a fancy colored
coating.

The tools work well enough but I am a very curious individual.

Claude
Montreal

In article , "claude" wrote:
Is there someone out there who can clarify a mystery for me. I have just
bought all sorts of titanium drill bits and have other tools that they say
contain titanium. I don't get it, working on a titanium aircraft part with a
normal chrome molly tool will destroy that titanium part. So how can they
alloy or coat a drill bit that won't react to itself or to the part you are
working on at the molecular level? The only explanation I can think of right
now is that the titanium they mention is bull and is just a fancy colored
coating.

Titanium by itself isn't especially hard.

But it can bring many desirable properties to other metals when
combined into an alloy (or used as part of a coating).

General reading on titanium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

my experience those titanium drill bits are a waste of money, the gold
color looks nice but they actually dull faster.

its a marketing ploy, and a good friend with a machine shop reached the
exact same conclusion indenpendent of mine.

On Nov 24, 4:04 pm, "claude" wrote:
Is there someone out there who can clarify a mystery for me. I have just
bought all sorts of titanium drill bits and have other tools that they say
contain titanium. I don't get it, working on a titanium aircraft part with a
normal chrome molly tool will destroy that titanium part. So how can they
alloy or coat a drill bit that won't react to itself or to the part you are
working on at the molecular level? The only explanation I can think of right
now is that the titanium they mention is bull and is just a fancy colored
coating.

The tools work well enough but I am a very curious individual.

It is not a titanium coating. It is a titanium _oxide_ coating.
Oxides are frequently far harder than the principal element. Aluminum
oxide, one of the softer metals, is used as an abrasive and is very
hard.

R

In article , says...

Is there someone out there who can clarify a mystery for me. I have just
bought all sorts of titanium drill bits and have other tools that they say
contain titanium. I don't get it, working on a titanium aircraft part with a
normal chrome molly tool will destroy that titanium part.


What do you work on titanium parts with? I worked with plenty of extremely
highly stressed titanium parts at NASA and we used ordinary tools and bolts.
And tools aren't chrome-moly anyway.

--
Dennis

Bits are coated after sharpening with a thin layer of titanium nitride which
is a hard material.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride for more detail.


"claude" wrote in message ...
Is there someone out there who can clarify a mystery for me. I have just
bought all sorts of titanium drill bits and have other tools that they say
contain titanium. I don't get it, working on a titanium aircraft part with
a normal chrome molly tool will destroy that titanium part. So how can
they alloy or coat a drill bit that won't react to itself or to the part
you are working on at the molecular level? The only explanation I can
think of right now is that the titanium they mention is bull and is just a
fancy colored coating.

The tools work well enough but I am a very curious individual.

Claude
Montreal

On Nov 24, 11:11 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Bits are coated after sharpening with a thin layer of titanium nitride which
is a hard material.

seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride for more detail.

Hmmm. Thanks for posting that link. I'd posted earlier about titanium
oxide coating, which is commonly used on knives - not sure why I
confused the two in my mind. Titanium oxide is hard, titanium nitride
is much harder. Thanks for setting the record straight, Jeff.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in
ups.com:

On Nov 24, 4:04 pm, "claude" wrote:
Is there someone out there who can clarify a mystery for me. I have
just bought all sorts of titanium drill bits and have other tools
that they say contain titanium. I don't get it, working on a titanium
aircraft part with a normal chrome molly tool will destroy that
titanium part. So how can they alloy or coat a drill bit that won't
react to itself or to the part you are working on at the molecular
level? The only explanation I can think of right now is that the
titanium they mention is bull and is just a fancy colored coating.

The tools work well enough but I am a very curious individual.

It is not a titanium coating. It is a titanium _oxide_ coating.


WRONG;it's titanium NITRIDE.
Almost as hard as diamond,excellent wear resistance.

titanium oxide is a pigment used in white paint.


Oxides are frequently far harder than the principal element. Aluminum
oxide, one of the softer metals, is used as an abrasive and is very
hard.

R



Strange,because aluminum oxide forms on any piece of bare aluminum exposed
to oxygen or ordinary air. And carbon steel drill bits drill it easily.
Of course,it IS harder than WOOD,so it's used for cheaper sandpaper.
It's not very hard compared to other abrasives.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"RicodJour" wrote in
ups.com:

On Nov 24, 11:11 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Bits are coated after sharpening with a thin layer of titanium
nitride which is a hard material.

seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride for more detail.

Hmmm. Thanks for posting that link. I'd posted earlier about
titanium oxide coating, which is commonly used on knives - not sure
why I confused the two in my mind. Titanium oxide is hard, titanium
nitride is much harder. Thanks for setting the record straight, Jeff.

R



I've never heard of titanium oxide being used on knives for a coating.
Unless it's white paint. ;-)
I have heard of TiN being used on knives,for the same reason it's used on
drills.It also dresses them up nice.You can even buy fancy dinner cutlery
with TiN coating;it looks like gold plate,but does not wear like gold
plate.

It's deposited by vapor deposition;a plate of Ti is inside a vacuum chamber
pressurized with nitrogen (at ~400degF,IIRC),and an electric arc is
discharged to the sacrificial Ti plate,vaporizing it and combining it with
the Nitrogen to form TiN,which falls onto the metallic items placed in the
chamber,plating them. Plating thickness is determined by arc current and
time.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Nov 25, 12:02 am, Jim Yanik wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote roups.com:

On Nov 24, 4:04 pm, "claude" wrote:
Is there someone out there who can clarify a mystery for me. I have
just bought all sorts of titanium drill bits and have other tools
that they say contain titanium. I don't get it, working on a titanium
aircraft part with a normal chrome molly tool will destroy that
titanium part. So how can they alloy or coat a drill bit that won't
react to itself or to the part you are working on at the molecular
level? The only explanation I can think of right now is that the
titanium they mention is bull and is just a fancy colored coating.

The tools work well enough but I am a very curious individual.

It is not a titanium coating. It is a titanium _oxide_ coating.

WRONG;it's titanium NITRIDE.
Almost as hard as diamond,excellent wear resistance.
titanium oxide is a pigment used in white paint.

Jeff already pointed that out, and I already thanked him for pointing
it out.

Oxides are frequently far harder than the principal element. Aluminum
oxide, one of the softer metals, is used as an abrasive and is very
hard.

R

Strange,because aluminum oxide forms on any piece of bare aluminum exposed
to oxygen or ordinary air. And carbon steel drill bits drill it easily.
Of course,it IS harder than WOOD,so it's used for cheaper sandpaper.
It's not very hard compared to other abrasives.

The oxidation of aluminum is not the same as aluminum oxide. If I
dusted diamond powder on your cereal, you'd never know it. If there
were a small diamond in your cereal, you'd break a tooth. Rubies and
sapphires are aluminum oxide. Them's plenty hard, chief!
http://www.galleries.com/minerals/ox...m/corundum.htm

Aluminum oxide sandpaper is not cheap, it's appropriate. The "cheaper"
grades are flint and garnet papers, and they're appropriate for other
uses. That's a whole 'nother thread, so let's not get into that in
this one.

R

On Nov 25, 12:10 am, Jim Yanik wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote

On Nov 24, 11:11 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Bits are coated after sharpening with a thin layer of titanium
nitride which is a hard material.

seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitridefor more detail.

Hmmm. Thanks for posting that link. I'd posted earlier about
titanium oxide coating, which is commonly used on knives - not sure
why I confused the two in my mind. Titanium oxide is hard, titanium
nitride is much harder. Thanks for setting the record straight, Jeff.

See? That's where I thanked Jeff. He just beat you to it!

I've never heard of titanium oxide being used on knives for a coating.
Unless it's white paint. ;-)

You've seen it, I'm sure. The coating gives a rainbow color and can
come from heat treating titanium or using a titanium oxide coating on
steel (for knives and such).
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ker1600vib.html

I know the white paint pigment as titanium dioxide, which also seems to
be known as titanium oxide...just to confuse people. There're titanium
oxides, dioxides and trioxides. I'm about oxided out of here!

I have heard of TiN being used on knives,for the same reason it's used on
drills.It also dresses them up nice.You can even buy fancy dinner cutlery
with TiN coating;it looks like gold plate,but does not wear like gold
plate.

It's deposited by vapor deposition;a plate of Ti is inside a vacuum chamber
pressurized with nitrogen (at ~400degF,IIRC),and an electric arc is
discharged to the sacrificial Ti plate,vaporizing it and combining it with
the Nitrogen to form TiN,which falls onto the metallic items placed in the
chamber,plating them. Plating thickness is determined by arc current and
time.

The titanium oxide coating is also vapor deposited.

Seems like we're all learning something in this thread. One of the
reasons I love newsgroups.

R