First time posting here, and this is gonna be longer than I want, so
thanks in advance for your time.

The lights in one room of my house used to flicker occassionally, which
got to be really annoying, so we called in an electrician. He replaced
the 15A breaker, and it seemed to work OK for a while. About two weeks
later, the problem happened again, and he came back out to replace the
breaker. This particular breaker controls 4 can lights in a room, a
fan, an outside Security light, and the Garage Door Opener.

About 6 months later, the lights in the same room, would just go out.
The Garage door wouldn't open, and the fan wouldn't work. Basically,
there was no power on the circuit, but the Breaker never tripped. If
we Flipped the Breaker off and then back on, everything would work
again, sometimes for days a a time, sometimes for just minutes.

Last week, we called the electrician to come back out, and once again
he replaced the breaker on Thursday. Sunday evening, the lights went
out again, and we couldn't get them to come back on. So, the
electrician came back out today. What we discovered is that the panel
bus where this particular breaker is located has a little burn spot on
it, and the breaker that he replaced on Thursday, also seemed to have a
little debris on the area that connects to the bus.

He made sure that the panel bus was cleaned, and that the new breaker
had no debris, but by the end of the day, the lights in the room went
out again.

This particular room is an addition between the house and what used to
be a detached garage. We are still unsure of exactly how this
particular rooom was wired, but there are 3 separate switches that
control the lights in the room, One switch that controls both the
lights and fan, and another recepticle that has a switch for the fan,
and a dimmer for the lights. The electrician and I were extemely
confused by how this particular room was wired, but he is not sure that
the room is wired with 4 way switches.

The electrical panel for my house is actually in a pantry, and is
extremely inconvenient to get to. My Electrician says that we will now
need to replace the entire panel because the bus appears to be bad. He
gave me a cost estimate of $1400, and said that he can get his guys to
fix the wiring in the addition for $200 more. There is virtually no
attic space above the pantry, as the entrance to the attic is on the
other end of the house. The electrician wants to move the panel to a
location that is more accessbile, so has suggested either outside the
house(not a good option), or pu the panel into the living room which is
not the most appealing, but we can work around it.

None of the other outlets in the room are on this breaker, they
actually come from a second panel in the Garage.

We searched and searched for possible loose wiring, but he is convinced
that the problem lies in the panel bus.

What suggestions do you have, and are the prices that he quoted
reasonable for the work that will need to occur. Also, is this
something that can be done be a novice electrician, or is it imperative
to have a certified electrian put th new box in.

Thanks again for your help.

wrote:
First time posting here, and this is gonna be longer than I want, so
thanks in advance for your time.

The lights in one room of my house used to flicker occassionally, which
got to be really annoying, so we called in an electrician. He replaced
the 15A breaker, and it seemed to work OK for a while. About two weeks
later, the problem happened again, and he came back out to replace the
breaker. This particular breaker controls 4 can lights in a room, a
fan, an outside Security light, and the Garage Door Opener.

About 6 months later, the lights in the same room, would just go out.
The Garage door wouldn't open, and the fan wouldn't work. Basically,
there was no power on the circuit, but the Breaker never tripped. If
we Flipped the Breaker off and then back on, everything would work
again, sometimes for days a a time, sometimes for just minutes.

Last week, we called the electrician to come back out, and once again
he replaced the breaker on Thursday. Sunday evening, the lights went
out again, and we couldn't get them to come back on. So, the
electrician came back out today. What we discovered is that the panel
bus where this particular breaker is located has a little burn spot on
it, and the breaker that he replaced on Thursday, also seemed to have a
little debris on the area that connects to the bus.

He made sure that the panel bus was cleaned, and that the new breaker
had no debris, but by the end of the day, the lights in the room went
out again.

This particular room is an addition between the house and what used to
be a detached garage. We are still unsure of exactly how this
particular rooom was wired, but there are 3 separate switches that
control the lights in the room, One switch that controls both the
lights and fan, and another recepticle that has a switch for the fan,
and a dimmer for the lights. The electrician and I were extemely
confused by how this particular room was wired, but he is not sure that
the room is wired with 4 way switches.

The electrical panel for my house is actually in a pantry, and is
extremely inconvenient to get to. My Electrician says that we will now
need to replace the entire panel because the bus appears to be bad. He
gave me a cost estimate of $1400, and said that he can get his guys to
fix the wiring in the addition for $200 more. There is virtually no
attic space above the pantry, as the entrance to the attic is on the
other end of the house. The electrician wants to move the panel to a
location that is more accessbile, so has suggested either outside the
house(not a good option), or pu the panel into the living room which is
not the most appealing, but we can work around it.

None of the other outlets in the room are on this breaker, they
actually come from a second panel in the Garage.

We searched and searched for possible loose wiring, but he is convinced
that the problem lies in the panel bus.

What suggestions do you have, and are the prices that he quoted
reasonable for the work that will need to occur. Also, is this
something that can be done be a novice electrician, or is it imperative
to have a certified electrian put th new box in.

Thanks again for your help.

Hmmm.
On a whim, I'd just try another fixture.

Hmmm.
On a whim, I'd just try another fixture.


Not sure what other fixture I should try?

In article .com, wrote:
First time posting here, and this is gonna be longer than I want, so
thanks in advance for your time.

The lights in one room of my house used to flicker occassionally, which
got to be really annoying, so we called in an electrician. He replaced
the 15A breaker, and it seemed to work OK for a while. About two weeks
later, the problem happened again, and he came back out to replace the
breaker. This particular breaker controls 4 can lights in a room, a
fan, an outside Security light, and the Garage Door Opener.

About 6 months later, the lights in the same room, would just go out.
The Garage door wouldn't open, and the fan wouldn't work. Basically,
there was no power on the circuit, but the Breaker never tripped. If
we Flipped the Breaker off and then back on, everything would work
again, sometimes for days a a time, sometimes for just minutes.

Last week, we called the electrician to come back out, and once again
he replaced the breaker on Thursday. Sunday evening, the lights went
out again, and we couldn't get them to come back on. So, the
electrician came back out today. What we discovered is that the panel
bus where this particular breaker is located has a little burn spot on
it, and the breaker that he replaced on Thursday, also seemed to have a
little debris on the area that connects to the bus.

He made sure that the panel bus was cleaned, and that the new breaker
had no debris, but by the end of the day, the lights in the room went
out again.

This particular room is an addition between the house and what used to
be a detached garage. We are still unsure of exactly how this
particular rooom was wired, but there are 3 separate switches that
control the lights in the room, One switch that controls both the
lights and fan, and another recepticle that has a switch for the fan,
and a dimmer for the lights. The electrician and I were extemely
confused by how this particular room was wired, but he is not sure that
the room is wired with 4 way switches.

The electrical panel for my house is actually in a pantry, and is
extremely inconvenient to get to. My Electrician says that we will now
need to replace the entire panel because the bus appears to be bad. He
gave me a cost estimate of $1400, and said that he can get his guys to
fix the wiring in the addition for $200 more. There is virtually no
attic space above the pantry, as the entrance to the attic is on the
other end of the house. The electrician wants to move the panel to a
location that is more accessbile, so has suggested either outside the
house(not a good option), or pu the panel into the living room which is
not the most appealing, but we can work around it.

None of the other outlets in the room are on this breaker, they
actually come from a second panel in the Garage.

We searched and searched for possible loose wiring, but he is convinced
that the problem lies in the panel bus.

What suggestions do you have, and are the prices that he quoted
reasonable for the work that will need to occur. Also, is this
something that can be done be a novice electrician, or is it imperative
to have a certified electrian put th new box in.

Before spending that kind of money, I would:

1. Check the actual current draw (AC *and* DC) on that circuit
with a decent meter.

2. Be very suspicious of that dimmer you mentioned. Replace
(or temporarily completely remove) the existing dimmer.
If the old dimmer gets hot and/or makes a buzzing sound,
be even more suspicious.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Malcolm Hoar posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.


1. Check the actual current draw (AC *and* DC) on that circuit
with a decent meter.

DC huh?
--
Tekkie

On 22 Aug 2006 20:49:09 -0700, wrote:
What suggestions do you have, and are the prices that he quoted
reasonable for the work that will need to occur. Also, is this
something that can be done be a novice electrician, or is it imperative
to have a certified electrian put th new box in.

I presume the electrician checked to make sure the ground wire for
that circuit was secure to the ground bus in the panel and that there
isn't a break in it?

Steve Manes, Brooklyn, NY
Home renovation site: http://cms.magpie.com/house

Steve Manes posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

I presume the electrician checked to make sure the ground wire for
that circuit was secure to the ground bus in the panel and that there
isn't a break in it?

And this would solve this problem how?
--
Tekkie

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:33:05 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

Steve Manes posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

I presume the electrician checked to make sure the ground wire for
that circuit was secure to the ground bus in the panel and that there
isn't a break in it?

And this would solve this problem how?

What symptoms would you expect on a circuit with an intermittent
neutral near or inside the panel?

Steve Manes, Brooklyn, NY
Home renovation site: http://cms.magpie.com/house

Steve Manes posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:33:05 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

Steve Manes posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

I presume the electrician checked to make sure the ground wire for
that circuit was secure to the ground bus in the panel and that there
isn't a break in it?

And this would solve this problem how?

What symptoms would you expect on a circuit with an intermittent
neutral near or inside the panel?

Steve Manes, Brooklyn, NY
Home renovation site: http://cms.magpie.com/house

What does your "ground" conductor have to do with the "neutral"?
--
Tekkie

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:09:51 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:


What symptoms would you expect on a circuit with an intermittent
neutral near or inside the panel?

Steve Manes, Brooklyn, NY
Home renovation site: http://cms.magpie.com/house

What does your "ground" conductor have to do with the "neutral"?

It was an old-timer slip of terminology. Happy now?

Steve Manes, Brooklyn, NY
Home renovation site: http://cms.magpie.com/house

wrote in message
oups.com...
First time posting here, and this is gonna be longer than I want, so
thanks in advance for your time.

The lights in one room of my house used to flicker occassionally, which
got to be really annoying, so we called in an electrician. He replaced
the 15A breaker, and it seemed to work OK for a while. About two weeks
later, the problem happened again, and he came back out to replace the
breaker. This particular breaker controls 4 can lights in a room, a
fan, an outside Security light, and the Garage Door Opener.

About 6 months later, the lights in the same room, would just go out.
The Garage door wouldn't open, and the fan wouldn't work. Basically,
there was no power on the circuit, but the Breaker never tripped. If
we Flipped the Breaker off and then back on, everything would work
again, sometimes for days a a time, sometimes for just minutes.

Last week, we called the electrician to come back out, and once again
he replaced the breaker on Thursday. Sunday evening, the lights went
out again, and we couldn't get them to come back on. So, the
electrician came back out today. What we discovered is that the panel
bus where this particular breaker is located has a little burn spot on
it, and the breaker that he replaced on Thursday, also seemed to have a
little debris on the area that connects to the bus.

He made sure that the panel bus was cleaned, and that the new breaker
had no debris, but by the end of the day, the lights in the room went
out again.

This particular room is an addition between the house and what used to
be a detached garage. We are still unsure of exactly how this
particular rooom was wired, but there are 3 separate switches that
control the lights in the room, One switch that controls both the
lights and fan, and another recepticle that has a switch for the fan,
and a dimmer for the lights. The electrician and I were extemely
confused by how this particular room was wired, but he is not sure that
the room is wired with 4 way switches.

The electrical panel for my house is actually in a pantry, and is
extremely inconvenient to get to. My Electrician says that we will now
need to replace the entire panel because the bus appears to be bad. He
gave me a cost estimate of $1400, and said that he can get his guys to
fix the wiring in the addition for $200 more. There is virtually no
attic space above the pantry, as the entrance to the attic is on the
other end of the house. The electrician wants to move the panel to a
location that is more accessbile, so has suggested either outside the
house(not a good option), or pu the panel into the living room which is
not the most appealing, but we can work around it.

None of the other outlets in the room are on this breaker, they
actually come from a second panel in the Garage.

We searched and searched for possible loose wiring, but he is convinced
that the problem lies in the panel bus.

What suggestions do you have, and are the prices that he quoted
reasonable for the work that will need to occur. Also, is this
something that can be done be a novice electrician, or is it imperative
to have a certified electrian put th new box in.

Thanks again for your help.


From the information that you have provided it sounds as though the
electrical panel bus at that particular circuit breaker location is shot. I
would install a new circuit breaker at a different location in the panel and
see what happens. It doesn't sound as though you have any other electrical
problems with this circuit. It is not that difficult to determine if 4-way
switches are being used, I suggest getting the opinion of another
electrician.

swap that power feed beteeen 2 different same sized current breakers.

if a 20 serves the room swap it with another 20 and see if the problem
moves.

this will answer for sure if the panel is the problem.

if you have any unused breaker slots move the feed to a new slot.

the price quoted is reasonable but i would confirm its the panel first

wrote:
First time posting here, and this is gonna be longer than I want, so
thanks in advance for your time.

The lights in one room of my house used to flicker occassionally,
which got to be really annoying, so we called in an electrician. He
replaced the 15A breaker, and it seemed to work OK for a while.
About two weeks later, the problem happened again, and he came back
out to replace the breaker. This particular breaker controls 4 can
lights in a room, a fan, an outside Security light, and the Garage
Door Opener.

Betcha you got a defective connection on a stab-in connector. These are
usually found on wall outlets (perhaps one you're not using), but could
exist elsewhere. The defect is upstream of, and on the same circuit with,
the devices displaying the symptom.

As another poster suggested, swap the wires from the supposed defective
breaker with another and see if the problem moves. If you still have the
same problem, the fault is not with the breaker or its box.

wrote in message
oups.com...
First time posting here, and this is gonna be longer than I want, so
thanks in advance for your time.

The lights in one room of my house used to flicker occassionally, which
got to be really annoying, so we called in an electrician. He replaced
the 15A breaker, and it seemed to work OK for a while. About two weeks
later, the problem happened again, and he came back out to replace the
breaker. This particular breaker controls 4 can lights in a room, a
fan, an outside Security light, and the Garage Door Opener.

About 6 months later, the lights in the same room, would just go out.
The Garage door wouldn't open, and the fan wouldn't work. Basically,
there was no power on the circuit, but the Breaker never tripped. If
we Flipped the Breaker off and then back on, everything would work
again, sometimes for days a a time, sometimes for just minutes.

Last week, we called the electrician to come back out, and once again
he replaced the breaker on Thursday. Sunday evening, the lights went
out again, and we couldn't get them to come back on. So, the
electrician came back out today. What we discovered is that the panel
bus where this particular breaker is located has a little burn spot on
it, and the breaker that he replaced on Thursday, also seemed to have a
little debris on the area that connects to the bus.

He made sure that the panel bus was cleaned, and that the new breaker
had no debris, but by the end of the day, the lights in the room went
out again.

This particular room is an addition between the house and what used to
be a detached garage. We are still unsure of exactly how this
particular rooom was wired, but there are 3 separate switches that
control the lights in the room, One switch that controls both the
lights and fan, and another recepticle that has a switch for the fan,
and a dimmer for the lights. The electrician and I were extemely
confused by how this particular room was wired, but he is not sure that
the room is wired with 4 way switches.

The electrical panel for my house is actually in a pantry, and is
extremely inconvenient to get to. My Electrician says that we will now
need to replace the entire panel because the bus appears to be bad. He
gave me a cost estimate of $1400, and said that he can get his guys to
fix the wiring in the addition for $200 more. There is virtually no
attic space above the pantry, as the entrance to the attic is on the
other end of the house. The electrician wants to move the panel to a
location that is more accessbile, so has suggested either outside the
house(not a good option), or pu the panel into the living room which is
not the most appealing, but we can work around it.

None of the other outlets in the room are on this breaker, they
actually come from a second panel in the Garage.

We searched and searched for possible loose wiring, but he is convinced
that the problem lies in the panel bus.

What suggestions do you have, and are the prices that he quoted
reasonable for the work that will need to occur. Also, is this
something that can be done be a novice electrician, or is it imperative
to have a certified electrian put th new box in.

A good electrician should be able to positively identify the problem in
fewer trips. Why do you keep using the same electrician that could not fix
your problem?

If he is so convinced the problem is the panel bus, then ask him to fix the
panel bus.

Based on your description, this electrician would make repairs without
making sure the repair fixes the problem.

It sounds like you have a bad contact somewhere. It should not cost $1400 to
fix it.

To find the bad contact, wait till the light stop working, then track down
where the bad contact is; it is either the panel or junction boxes along the
way. You can use a voltmeter to measure the voltage in this circuit between
the panel and the light. We know at the light it is 0 volt and at the panel
somewhere there is 120V.

If you don't want to do this, I suggest you try a different electrician --
someone who can locate the problem, not guess at it.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

John wrote:

A good electrician should be able to positively identify the problem in
fewer trips. Why do you keep using the same electrician that could not fix
your problem?

If he is so convinced the problem is the panel bus, then ask him to fix the
panel bus.

Based on your description, this electrician would make repairs without
making sure the repair fixes the problem.

It sounds like you have a bad contact somewhere. It should not cost $1400 to
fix it.

To find the bad contact, wait till the light stop working, then track down
where the bad contact is; it is either the panel or junction boxes along the
way. You can use a voltmeter to measure the voltage in this circuit between
the panel and the light. We know at the light it is 0 volt and at the panel
somewhere there is 120V.

If you don't want to do this, I suggest you try a different electrician --
someone who can locate the problem, not guess at it.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


I guess a couple of clarifications are needed. First, we have a home
warranty, and this is the electrician that they contract with. It cost
me $50 to have him come out at the beginning of the year, and $50 to
have him come out last week. The additional trips did not cost
anything. Replacing breakers is apparently covered under the warranty,
but a new panel doesn't appear to be covered.

Secondly, there is no additional room in the panel move the circuits.
All available space is taken up.

We switched the wires once before, and the lights in the bedroom
started flicking. That is when we thought that it was a breaker
problem.

Thanks for your insight.

posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

I guess a couple of clarifications are needed. First, we have a home
warranty, and this is the electrician that they contract with.

This explains A LOT! Get rid of it, lowest cost luser...
--
Tekkie

wrote in message
oups.com...

John wrote:

A good electrician should be able to positively identify the problem in
fewer trips. Why do you keep using the same electrician that could not
fix
your problem?

If he is so convinced the problem is the panel bus, then ask him to fix
the
panel bus.

Based on your description, this electrician would make repairs without
making sure the repair fixes the problem.

It sounds like you have a bad contact somewhere. It should not cost
$1400 to
fix it.

To find the bad contact, wait till the light stop working, then track
down
where the bad contact is; it is either the panel or junction boxes along
the
way. You can use a voltmeter to measure the voltage in this circuit
between
the panel and the light. We know at the light it is 0 volt and at the
panel
somewhere there is 120V.

If you don't want to do this, I suggest you try a different
electrician --
someone who can locate the problem, not guess at it.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


I guess a couple of clarifications are needed. First, we have a home
warranty, and this is the electrician that they contract with. It cost
me $50 to have him come out at the beginning of the year, and $50 to
have him come out last week. The additional trips did not cost
anything. Replacing breakers is apparently covered under the warranty,
but a new panel doesn't appear to be covered.

Secondly, there is no additional room in the panel move the circuits.
All available space is taken up.

We switched the wires once before, and the lights in the bedroom
started flicking. That is when we thought that it was a breaker
problem.

Thanks for your insight.


It might still be worth your while to pay for a second opinion. I'm
curious. What is the brand name of your electrical panel and how old is it?

wrote:
John wrote:


A good electrician should be able to positively identify the problem in
fewer trips. Why do you keep using the same electrician that could not fix
your problem?

If he is so convinced the problem is the panel bus, then ask him to fix the
panel bus.

Based on your description, this electrician would make repairs without
making sure the repair fixes the problem.

It sounds like you have a bad contact somewhere. It should not cost $1400 to
fix it.

To find the bad contact, wait till the light stop working, then track down
where the bad contact is; it is either the panel or junction boxes along the
way. You can use a voltmeter to measure the voltage in this circuit between
the panel and the light. We know at the light it is 0 volt and at the panel
somewhere there is 120V.

If you don't want to do this, I suggest you try a different electrician --
someone who can locate the problem, not guess at it.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



I guess a couple of clarifications are needed. First, we have a home
warranty, and this is the electrician that they contract with. It cost
me $50 to have him come out at the beginning of the year, and $50 to
have him come out last week. The additional trips did not cost
anything. Replacing breakers is apparently covered under the warranty,
but a new panel doesn't appear to be covered.

Secondly, there is no additional room in the panel move the circuits.
All available space is taken up.

We switched the wires once before, and the lights in the bedroom
started flicking. That is when we thought that it was a breaker
problem.

Thanks for your insight.


For many panels there are piggyback/half size breakers available that
put 2 breakers in one space. An existing single breaker could be
replaced with 2 poles in the same space.

bud--

wrote:
First time posting here, and this is gonna be longer than I want, so
thanks in advance for your time...

I ran into a problem like this last year and went through several
troubleshooting procedures to try and find the problem. Finally,
someone mentioned it might be a bad connection of one phase of power
from the power lines. I called our utility company and someone came
out that day and, though I never saw what they did, the problem was
gone and never came back. It was a simple, free fix.

According to :
He made sure that the panel bus was cleaned, and that the new breaker
had no debris, but by the end of the day, the lights in the room went
out again.

How did he clean it?

It seems to me that if you were to clean it properly (eg: a light
touch with a metal file or good scrub with garnet paper), and the
breaker was new (such that the connectors on the back weren't already
overheated), having it start misbehaving within a day means that
something _else_ is wrong (in addition or simultaneously), or the
bus is very badly damaged (but it didn't sound like it).

Eg: inherently overloaded, or some sort of subtle not-quite-trip
intermittent fault downstream.

Swapping this circuit onto another breaker would help diagnose
the problem.

It seems to me that the loading on this circuit may be a bit high
because of the GDO. Had you operated the GDO between the new
breaker going in and the problem recurring? Inspecting all
the connections would probably be a good idea.

If it turns out that that breaker position is the problem, given
that the panel is fully loaded now, replacing the panel is just
one option. Adding a small pony panel somewhere near is another,
and it'd be a lot cheaper (vastly less labor) than swapping out the main.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.