I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level. In addition, it has become much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.). While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

That is basically what I have heard. I wonder how many
customers, though, have gotten as upset as I have over it.
A couple of key questions:
(1) Why do you prefer HD to Lowe's?
(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?





On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


"frank1492" wrote in message
.. .
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level. In addition, it has become much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.). While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

I have read that Walmart's presence in the economy in essence
raises disposable personal income by .9% due to its low prices
relative to other retailers. Aside from the low wages they pay
their employees, nobody ever seems to mention the way in which
Walmart benefits low income consumers overall.
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.




On 17 Aug 2006 19:18:04 -0700, "bryanska"
wrote:

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

Go to any walmart where there is a certain population near the 1st of
the month and see how crowded it is.

frank1492 wrote:
I have read that Walmart's presence in the economy in essence
raises disposable personal income by .9% due to its low prices
relative to other retailers. Aside from the low wages they pay
their employees, nobody ever seems to mention the way in which
Walmart benefits low income consumers overall.
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.




On 17 Aug 2006 19:18:04 -0700, "bryanska"
wrote:

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

frank1492 wrote:
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.


There is no debate and there are no merits.
Wallmart is bad for everyone except wallmart.

Dave

I have read that Walmart's presence in the economy in essence raises
disposable personal income by .9% due to its low prices


Did you also read the part about the burden that Walmart's employees place
on Medicare because they can't afford health insurance, their foodstamps,
etc?

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I have read that Walmart's presence in the economy in essence
raises disposable personal income by .9% due to its low prices
relative to other retailers. Aside from the low wages they pay
their employees, nobody ever seems to mention the way in which
Walmart benefits low income consumers overall.
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.

I've found WalMart's prices easily beatable here in the Chicago area. The
few pennies possibly saved are countered by the cost to travel to a Walmart,
they're not on every corner. And did you hear that WalMart is pulling out
of Germany - because German's figured out WalMart didn't actually have the
lowest price.

S

On 17 Aug 2006 19:18:04 -0700, "bryanska"
wrote:

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

You aught to read the Vlasic Pickle story. About how Walmart put
Vlasic Pickle out of business.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

It'd be hilarious if it werent so serious.

dickm

"dicko" wrote in message

You aught to read the Vlasic Pickle story. About how Walmart put
Vlasic Pickle out of business.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

It'd be hilarious if it werent so serious.

dickm

Interesting story. Only thing is, Wal Mart did not do them in, they really
did themselves in. At some point, you just have to say, "sorry, no deal"

Now, you are probably thinking, "easy for you to say" and I must reply, yes,
not only is it easy we did just that to two of our largest customers. The
first was a major appliance manufacturer that accounted for over 25% of our
sales and much of our profit. After doing a job for a year, they asked us
for a 10% price reduction. The reasoning was that by now we have paid off
our R & D and start-up costs, and we probably found better methods to make
our parts. They were correct and we agreed and the following year we did
well. Year three, they said in order to maintain their market share, they
have to reduce costs. They pressured us for another 5% and we agreed, but
they also went from 30 days to 120 days payment. That year was OK, but not
as profitable as it was in the past.

Now comes price negotiations for year four. They said they wanted a 25%
reduction (remember, it was already reduced 10% and 5%). And, if we agreed,
they also wanted a 6% rebate for the business from the previous year. That
is when we said "sorry, no deal, where do you want your tooling shipped?"
We watched as they took truckloads of material from our competitor. We
watched as our competitor struggled and finally closed a manufacturing
plant when they did not make enough to pay their bills. As for the
appliance manufacturer, they closed their plant and now import everything
from China and Korea.

Two years later, we were faced with another situation. We walked from that
also. We made more profit from less sales. Not every sale is a good one.

wrote:

That is basically what I have heard. I wonder how many
customers, though, have gotten as upset as I have over it.
A couple of key questions:
(1) Why do you prefer HD to Lowe's?

I prefer Lowe's-- but I suspect that is because they are the 'New Guy'
in our town. The gap is narrowing as Lowe's sinks lower and lower
in the customer service, quality, and 'have it onhand' departments.

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I don't. I suspect that about 1/2 of the Walmart haters also hate
Microsoft, IBM, Disney, Toyota, and any other company that has found a
successful business model and made a crapload of money. [is Google
soon to be on that list?] Another large segment might hate them for
their treatment of their employees.

If I have a choice I prefer to shop at my locally owned grocer- my
local hardware store, and my local electronics place. But sometimes
it just makes sense to go to Walmart and save myself a bunch of $ and
a lot of time.

Jim

I don't. I suspect that about 1/2 of the Walmart haters also hate
Microsoft, IBM, Disney, Toyota, and any other company that has found a
successful business model and made a crapload of money. [is Google
soon to be on that list?]

I like Microsoft fine. Good OS, and there's two alternatives. Not a
totally good comparison, as using Windows doesn't affect my local
economy.

IBM is fine, too. Good machines (now made by Lenovo) and competent
services.

Toyota's OK, I guess.

But Disney is just crap. The worst kind of schlock. What horrible
movies...

I love Walmart. Ask any senior citizen on a limited budget.
"frank1492" wrote in message
...
That is basically what I have heard. I wonder how many
customers, though, have gotten as upset as I have over it.
A couple of key questions:
(1) Why do you prefer HD to Lowe's?
(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?





On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


"frank1492" wrote in message
. ..
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount
of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level. In addition, it has become
much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved
away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.). While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still
prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level.

Even so, with computerized inventory, they should always have almost
full inventory

(unless something unusual happens. I met a guy today who wanted 40 of
the all rubber elastic cords. He had about 20 in his cart, and he was
looking up at the big boxes 8 feet up to see if there were more. But
there weren't, it seemed, so he was going to another store to buy
another 20. He said he had a long truck, and he needed 40!

In addition, it has become much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.).

I never noticed that they had that to begin with. Except one guy.

While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

I agree with your uggh. The HD guy I talked to today confirmed that
Walmart is really opening a store only a block from the new HD, both
only a mile from where I live. I was able to boycott Walborg when
they were not nearby, but boy was it nice to be able to go to HD twice
in one day today, because I found something else I needed and it was
no effort to get there.

BTW, I don't prefer HD to Lowes, but there are a lot more HD's. I
only know of 3 or 4 Lowes in extended metropolitan Baltimore, but I
know of 4 HD's within 6 miles of me, and more farther.

I don't like Walmart because I think they abuse their employees, and
lie about it, and intimidate them so few complain.

When did Sam Walton die? They have been selling Chinese stuff for a
long time, I thought.

I used to work for International Paper by the way, but only for 2
months or so on one computer project.

mm wrote:
Even so, with computerized inventory, they [HD] should always have almost
full inventory

Having worked in management for a department store, I can tell you that
companies' buying lines rely entirely too much on the computerized
sales and restocking figures. They have no clue what customers want,
because they have no idea how many customers come into a store looking
for something they don't carry.

Example: let's say the big box hardware store (BBHS) carries
replacement parts for Char-Broil, Weber and Vermont Castings. That's
all they stock, and that's all customers who make purchases at the BBHS
buy. Salespeople at the stores know that there are a lot of customers
coming in looking for Ducane, but can't buy it so they go elsewhere,
and the BBHS loses that business. But the buying line has no idea
because they have ZERO contact with the store to know not only what it
is customers are buying, but what it is customers would LIKE to buy but
can't because they don't carry it.

Having spent three months shopping at Home Depot or Lowe's at least
four times a week while renovating a house, and having had both good
and bad experiences at both, I can tell you the problem isn't one
retailer or the other, it's the entire retail model these days. I wish
I had the time to find all the good mom-and-pop stores in my area I
need to take care of my house, but the BBHS is so much more
convenient...

They have no clue what customers want,
because they have no idea how many customers come into a store looking
for something they don't carry.

What really frosts me is HD's corporate policy of not taking
reservations for rental equipment--even if I offer to pay in advance.
This is so anti-customer. How is a contractor supposed to plan and
commit to a job if the equipment may not be available when needed? I
wrote to HD's president and got back a meaningless form letter.

You should have done what Andy Rooney would
have done: Go to corporate HQ and ask to speak
to Mr. Depot.





On 23 Aug 2006 08:09:15 -0700, wrote:

They have no clue what customers want,
because they have no idea how many customers come into a store looking
for something they don't carry.

What really frosts me is HD's corporate policy of not taking
reservations for rental equipment--even if I offer to pay in advance.
This is so anti-customer. How is a contractor supposed to plan and
commit to a job if the equipment may not be available when needed? I
wrote to HD's president and got back a meaningless form letter.

wrote:
They have no clue what customers want,

because they have no idea how many customers come into a store looking
for something they don't carry.


What really frosts me is HD's corporate policy of not taking
reservations for rental equipment--even if I offer to pay in advance.
This is so anti-customer. How is a contractor supposed to plan and
commit to a job if the equipment may not be available when needed? I
wrote to HD's president and got back a meaningless form letter.


Maybe go to a real contractor rental place that will work with you?

mm,

Computerized inventory needs to be deigned to include theft and damage. A
while back I was at Lowes shopping for a 90 deg stove pipe elbow. There was
one mangled elbow on the shelf. There were 3 elbows listed in their
computer. The store clerk couldn't find the elbows and left the damaged one
on the shelf. A month later I looked again, out of curiosity, and they still
had one damaged elbow on the shelf.

Dave M.
..

"David Martel" wrote in message
ink.net...
mm,

Computerized inventory needs to be deigned to include theft and damage.
A while back I was at Lowes shopping for a 90 deg stove pipe elbow. There
was one mangled elbow on the shelf. There were 3 elbows listed in their
computer. The store clerk couldn't find the elbows and left the damaged
one on the shelf. A month later I looked again, out of curiosity, and they
still had one damaged elbow on the shelf.

Dave M.
.
Computerized inventory just needs to be updated in the HD where I live. I
was looking at a certain bookcase which was on display but none were on the
shelf because they were sold out. When the clerk checked the computerized
inventory, it showed that they had 3 of them. Nobody could have shoplifted
them because of the size and weight of the boxes.

David

David wrote:

"David Martel" wrote in message
ink.net...
mm,

Computerized inventory needs to be deigned to include theft and damage.
A while back I was at Lowes shopping for a 90 deg stove pipe elbow. There
was one mangled elbow on the shelf. There were 3 elbows listed in their
computer. The store clerk couldn't find the elbows and left the damaged
one on the shelf. A month later I looked again, out of curiosity, and they
still had one damaged elbow on the shelf.

Dave M.
.
Computerized inventory just needs to be updated in the HD where I live. I
was looking at a certain bookcase which was on display but none were on the
shelf because they were sold out. When the clerk checked the computerized
inventory, it showed that they had 3 of them. Nobody could have shoplifted
them because of the size and weight of the boxes.

David

Employee theft out the loading dock with their own forklift...

Pete C.

mm wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:

....
... Once upon a time, the (HD) store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level.

Even so, with computerized inventory, they should always have almost
full inventory

(unless something unusual happens. ...)

Well, "yes but..."

While true in theory, reality is that there is the overall
profitability that is what is attempting to be maximized and that
includes delivery costs, manufacturing and delivery costs/timing,
inventory costs and turnover amongst other variables. Simply looking
at the number of widgets in a bin and sending out more in a purely
automatic response might keep inventory on the shelves but wouldn't
necessarily bring in more net revenue (and probably wouldn't for most
items)...

When did Sam Walton die? They have been selling Chinese stuff for a
long time, I thought.
....

I don't recall the date, but the shift from "Buy America" to "Buy
Cheap" came following his death and that is what precipitated the mass
stampede to Chinese and other third-world manufacturers. Of course,
Wally-World isn't the only one, just the leader--essentially everyone
has had to follow suit in order to compete. Simply try to find common
consumer products of the type W-M stocks and see if you can actually
find a non-third-world supplier for any of them---usually it can't be
done except in really large metro areas with very specialized shops,
and even then not necessarily.

When (and if) consumers decide to flock away to somewhere other than
W-M, they will either change or (as in Germany) withdraw. I personally
avoid them as much as possible because a) they're _not_
convenient--it's too big, takes too much wandering around to try to
find an item or two; b) typically it's crowded so it takes longer to
get in/out; c) there really isn't that much difference in cost for most
items to make it worth the hassle; d) unless it really is just
"consumer junk", there really isn't anything there I want, anyway.

PS. Being in what most would consider a small town, there are the
occasional instances that there actually isn't much if any alternative
any longer as the influence of the BORG-syndrome is most observable on
the independent businesses in smaller communities which don't have the
population base to support the smaller merchants as well.

On 18 Aug 2006 09:03:25 -0700, "dpb" wrote:

PS. Being in what most would consider a small town, there are the
occasional instances that there actually isn't much if any alternative
any longer as the influence of the BORG-syndrome is most observable on
the independent businesses in smaller communities which don't have the
population base to support the smaller merchants as well.

Former Georgia Congressman and former civil-rights activist Andrew
Young, I just heard on the radio, resigned today from a pro-Walmart
organization, after he was criticized for remarks he had made.

I have the story very close to accurate: He was asked if it was a
problem that Walmart drove small businesses out of business.

He said, No, because they are owned by Jews, Koreans, and Arabs and
they charge too much anyhow.


When I heard the start of the story (on NPR iirc) I didn't expect him
to have said anything this flamboyant or flaming. I guess Andy only
cares about non-discrimination when he's the one being
non-discriminated against. And he's so off the wall anyhow. Maybe
where he lives, but I'm sure the majority, probably the vast majority
of stores in the US put out of business weren't owned by Jews,
Koreans, or Arabs. I wonder if he got this line from meetings with
Wal-mart or he thought of it himself.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On 18 Aug 2006 09:03:25 -0700, "dpb" wrote:

PS. Being in what most would consider a small town, there are the
occasional instances that there actually isn't much if any alternative
any longer as the influence of the BORG-syndrome is most observable on
the independent businesses in smaller communities which don't have the
population base to support the smaller merchants as well.

Former Georgia Congressman and former civil-rights activist Andrew
Young, I just heard on the radio, resigned today from a pro-Walmart
organization, after he was criticized for remarks he had made.


You have a link to that story?

In . com, dpb wrote:

I don't recall the date, but the shift from "Buy America" to "Buy
Cheap" came following his death and that is what precipitated the mass
stampede to Chinese and other third-world manufacturers. Of course,
Wally-World isn't the only one, just the leader--essentially everyone
has had to follow suit in order to compete. Simply try to find common
consumer products of the type W-M stocks and see if you can actually
find a non-third-world supplier for any of them---usually it can't be
done except in really large metro areas with very specialized shops,
and even then not necessarily.

I do know of such a product: Light bulbs of the higher sales volume
types! 40, 60, 75 and 100 watt "A-line", and 4-foot fluorescents! Ones
of major brands are still largely made in USA or Canada!

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
In . com, dpb wrote:

....
find a non-third-world supplier for ...

I do know of such a product: ...

And there's a telling comment -- "_a_ product:".

Gonna throw something in.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount
of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level. In addition, it has become
much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved
away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.).

You most likely won't find *real* pros in any department at HD or Lowes. A
good tradesman can make $18-$24 per hour (or more) in their respective
trade, maybe half of that at the box stores.

While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still
prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

HD was great when Bernie and Arthur ran it. Now that Nardelli, the General
Electric reject, runs it, the stores have turned to squat.

HeatMan wrote:

You most likely won't find *real* pros in any department at HD or Lowes. A
good tradesman can make $18-$24 per hour (or more) in their respective
trade, maybe half of that at the box stores.

You used to find real pros at HD, typically evenings and weekends when
they had time to kill to make some extra money.

Pete C.

frank1492 wrote in
:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank


I have noticed this over the past couple of years.

And discontnuing items for a higher priced line. Example comes to mind.
Went to get a plastic toilet supply line. Empty. Knowledgable employee I
know nearby. Says they were discontinued and they will only have the
metal braded from now on.

And please, don't someone say how much better they are. They may be but
the betterness will never get used. Never had a plastic one explode on me
yet!

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:17:02 -0500, Al Bundy
wrote:

frank1492 wrote in
:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank


I have noticed this over the past couple of years.

And discontnuing items for a higher priced line. Example comes to mind.
Went to get a plastic toilet supply line. Empty. Knowledgable employee I
know nearby. Says they were discontinued and they will only have the
metal braded from now on.

And please, don't someone say how much better they are. They may be but
the betterness will never get used. Never had a plastic one explode on me
yet!

You obviously need a pressure booster.

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows!

Funny you should mention that.

I went to HD for copper sweat on fittings. They had contractor packs for
let's say, $2.50 for ten fittings. I bought all they had. When I got to
the cashier, she could not ring up the loose ones because they did not have
individual SKUs on them.

Call the manager.

Stand around.

Line behind me gets longer.

Repeat the last three steps about three times.

Meanwhile, I say, "Look. $2.50 divided by ten equals a quarter apiece.
Charge me that."

"Oh, I can't do that. I'll lose my job," was the response from the
oblivious nineteen year old clerk.

Finally, after about ten minutes, I walked out, leaving about $300 worth of
merchandise sitting there.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
newsqbFg.7333$Mz3.7115@fed1read07...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows!

Funny you should mention that.

I went to HD for copper sweat on fittings. They had contractor packs for
let's say, $2.50 for ten fittings. I bought all they had. When I got to
the cashier, she could not ring up the loose ones because they did not
have
individual SKUs on them.

Call the manager.

Stand around.

Line behind me gets longer.

Repeat the last three steps about three times.

Meanwhile, I say, "Look. $2.50 divided by ten equals a quarter apiece.
Charge me that."

"Oh, I can't do that. I'll lose my job," was the response from the
oblivious nineteen year old clerk.

Finally, after about ten minutes, I walked out, leaving about $300 worth
of
merchandise sitting there.



Been there, done that.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:33:25 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

Finally, after about ten minutes, I walked out, leaving about $300 worth of
merchandise sitting there.

I walked out leaving a purchase ticket for a $3600 outdoor shed laying
on the counter because 3.... Three.... THREE!.... McIdiots at the
register could not figure out how to do the transaction and the
manager would not answer his/her page. Two months later they burned
me on the last of three fraudulent rebates and I have never darkened
their sorry door again.

I do Lowe's because our local store employees knowledgeable people in
each department and they have cashiers that have brain power above
that of plant life. Actually our local Lowe's cashiers know how to
find items in a book at each register when that item does not have a
scan bar on it or if it comes out of a broken box.

Top marks to Lowe's and I wouldn't **** on Home Depot if it were on
fire.

Regards,

"Ed" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:33:25 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

Finally, after about ten minutes, I walked out, leaving about $300 worth
of
merchandise sitting there.

I walked out leaving a purchase ticket for a $3600 outdoor shed laying
on the counter because 3.... Three.... THREE!.... McIdiots at the
register could not figure out how to do the transaction and the
manager would not answer his/her page. Two months later they burned
me on the last of three fraudulent rebates and I have never darkened
their sorry door again.

I do Lowe's because our local store employees knowledgeable people in
each department and they have cashiers that have brain power above
that of plant life. Actually our local Lowe's cashiers know how to
find items in a book at each register when that item does not have a
scan bar on it or if it comes out of a broken box.

Top marks to Lowe's and I wouldn't **** on Home Depot if it were on
fire.

Regards,

Ayup. I like to do the meanest nastiest thing I can do to them. Take my
money elsewhere. I usually like to give a parting shot to the manager, but
I think I hear the WHOOSH of a projectile passing over an empty air space.

Steve

"Al Bundy" wrote in message
...
frank1492 wrote in
:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank


I have noticed this over the past couple of years.

And discontnuing items for a higher priced line. Example comes to mind.
Went to get a plastic toilet supply line. Empty. Knowledgable employee I
know nearby. Says they were discontinued and they will only have the
metal braded from now on.

And please, don't someone say how much better they are. They may be but
the betterness will never get used. Never had a plastic one explode on me
yet!

Talked to a gent at HD yesterday, an employee. He and his wife were out on
a camping trip and came home to water flowing out the garage of their ranch
with a full basement house. The plastic sink (as opposed to toilet) supply
line broke.

"HeatMan" wrote in
:


"Al Bundy" wrote in message
...
frank1492 wrote in
:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it
has become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I
need something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not
talking slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper
elbows! They tell me they can't order when they need something
these days, but receive stuff only when the home office tells them
they need it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank


I have noticed this over the past couple of years.

And discontnuing items for a higher priced line. Example comes to
mind. Went to get a plastic toilet supply line. Empty. Knowledgable
employee I know nearby. Says they were discontinued and they will
only have the metal braded from now on.

And please, don't someone say how much better they are. They may be
but the betterness will never get used. Never had a plastic one
explode on me yet!

Talked to a gent at HD yesterday, an employee. He and his wife were
out on a camping trip and came home to water flowing out the garage of
their ranch with a full basement house. The plastic sink (as opposed
to toilet) supply line broke.






Bet it came from WalMart :-) Or maybe he forgot to mention it was a
modified straw!

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

Worked the retail floor for 25 years. We referred to it as the "bean
counters" in the head office controlling the stores, If their computer told
them that a certain profit or sales volume wasn't met on a certain item,
they no longer allowed the stores to sell it. Sears, a few years ago
dropped bicycles from their lineup because as the "bean counters" said, it
accounted for only about 1% of their business and wasn't worth the bother.
Now, a lot of companies would have killed for a product that accounted for
1% of a 40 billion dollar business. The following Christmas, I can only
imagine where people finished up their shopping after coming into the store
and were told they couldn't buy the kids Christmas bike, there. I'm seeing
the same situation at WalMart right now. I've been restoring an old pontoon
boat and I went in to buy a pedestal stand for a seat. Always saw them
there before, along with the paddles, trolling motors, etc. None of that
was there anymore. The "associate" said that the department had been
"downsized". When they stopped selling guns, they said that it was because
they didn't sell enough to justify the carrying of them. Sounds like the
"bean counters" talking again. I guess, I'll just do my shopping at Gander
Mountain from now on. The price difference isn't worth the extra gas spent
in driving to WalMart.

Tom G.

Just my 2 cents here about why I hate lowes MORE than HD.

When in Lowes here in NY I cannot find ANYONE to assist.
They call, page and get nothing. Thats bull.

The people who they have working at my local one are locals
that dont know ANYTHING about their departments.
(I found this out on the rare occasion I found someone in the
first place)

The local HD are not much better, but at least they can direct
you in the right direction on where to find stuff. I wouldnt
never rely on the HD guys opinion on a project. I rather
get second and third opinions from people in the newgroups.




Tom G wrote:
"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

Worked the retail floor for 25 years. We referred to it as the "bean
counters" in the head office controlling the stores, If their computer told
them that a certain profit or sales volume wasn't met on a certain item,
they no longer allowed the stores to sell it. Sears, a few years ago
dropped bicycles from their lineup because as the "bean counters" said, it
accounted for only about 1% of their business and wasn't worth the bother.
Now, a lot of companies would have killed for a product that accounted for
1% of a 40 billion dollar business. The following Christmas, I can only
imagine where people finished up their shopping after coming into the store
and were told they couldn't buy the kids Christmas bike, there. I'm seeing
the same situation at WalMart right now. I've been restoring an old pontoon
boat and I went in to buy a pedestal stand for a seat. Always saw them
there before, along with the paddles, trolling motors, etc. None of that
was there anymore. The "associate" said that the department had been
"downsized". When they stopped selling guns, they said that it was because
they didn't sell enough to justify the carrying of them. Sounds like the
"bean counters" talking again. I guess, I'll just do my shopping at Gander
Mountain from now on. The price difference isn't worth the extra gas spent
in driving to WalMart.

Tom G.

On 08/17/06 11:49 pm wrote:

Just my 2 cents here about why I hate lowes MORE than HD.

When in Lowes here in NY I cannot find ANYONE to assist.
They call, page and get nothing. Thats bull.

The people who they have working at my local one are locals
that dont know ANYTHING about their departments.
(I found this out on the rare occasion I found someone in the
first place)

The local HD are not much better, but at least they can direct
you in the right direction on where to find stuff. I wouldnt
never rely on the HD guys opinion on a project. I rather
get second and third opinions from people in the newgroups.

When we lived on Long Island, we had four HDs within a reasonable
distance, but not all with the same stock or atmosphere. Only at one of
them were customers metaphorically frisked as they left. Lowe's came
later. Each carried stuff that the others didn't, but I can't say that
there was a whole lot to choose between them.

Now in W. Michigan, we have Lowe's just around the corner and a few HD
stores much farther away. We also have small Menards (Wisconsin-based
chain), True Value, Ace, and Do-It-Best stores. Now HD is due to open
within the next month or two and a much bigger Menards within the next
year. (This all in spite of a plummeting job market and a more-or-less
static housing market.) It will be interesting to see how everything
works out.

When we first moved here, Lowe's had a "decruited" electronics engineer
working in the electrical dept., but he is now working in the garden
dept. watering plants.

Perce