I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level. In addition, it has become much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.). While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

That is basically what I have heard. I wonder how many
customers, though, have gotten as upset as I have over it.
A couple of key questions:
(1) Why do you prefer HD to Lowe's?
(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?





On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


"frank1492" wrote in message
.. .
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level. In addition, it has become much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.). While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

frank1492 wrote in
:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank


I have noticed this over the past couple of years.

And discontnuing items for a higher priced line. Example comes to mind.
Went to get a plastic toilet supply line. Empty. Knowledgable employee I
know nearby. Says they were discontinued and they will only have the
metal braded from now on.

And please, don't someone say how much better they are. They may be but
the betterness will never get used. Never had a plastic one explode on me
yet!

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

I have read that Walmart's presence in the economy in essence
raises disposable personal income by .9% due to its low prices
relative to other retailers. Aside from the low wages they pay
their employees, nobody ever seems to mention the way in which
Walmart benefits low income consumers overall.
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.




On 17 Aug 2006 19:18:04 -0700, "bryanska"
wrote:

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

Go to any walmart where there is a certain population near the 1st of
the month and see how crowded it is.

frank1492 wrote:
I have read that Walmart's presence in the economy in essence
raises disposable personal income by .9% due to its low prices
relative to other retailers. Aside from the low wages they pay
their employees, nobody ever seems to mention the way in which
Walmart benefits low income consumers overall.
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.




On 17 Aug 2006 19:18:04 -0700, "bryanska"
wrote:

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

Worked the retail floor for 25 years. We referred to it as the "bean
counters" in the head office controlling the stores, If their computer told
them that a certain profit or sales volume wasn't met on a certain item,
they no longer allowed the stores to sell it. Sears, a few years ago
dropped bicycles from their lineup because as the "bean counters" said, it
accounted for only about 1% of their business and wasn't worth the bother.
Now, a lot of companies would have killed for a product that accounted for
1% of a 40 billion dollar business. The following Christmas, I can only
imagine where people finished up their shopping after coming into the store
and were told they couldn't buy the kids Christmas bike, there. I'm seeing
the same situation at WalMart right now. I've been restoring an old pontoon
boat and I went in to buy a pedestal stand for a seat. Always saw them
there before, along with the paddles, trolling motors, etc. None of that
was there anymore. The "associate" said that the department had been
"downsized". When they stopped selling guns, they said that it was because
they didn't sell enough to justify the carrying of them. Sounds like the
"bean counters" talking again. I guess, I'll just do my shopping at Gander
Mountain from now on. The price difference isn't worth the extra gas spent
in driving to WalMart.

Tom G.

Just my 2 cents here about why I hate lowes MORE than HD.

When in Lowes here in NY I cannot find ANYONE to assist.
They call, page and get nothing. Thats bull.

The people who they have working at my local one are locals
that dont know ANYTHING about their departments.
(I found this out on the rare occasion I found someone in the
first place)

The local HD are not much better, but at least they can direct
you in the right direction on where to find stuff. I wouldnt
never rely on the HD guys opinion on a project. I rather
get second and third opinions from people in the newgroups.




Tom G wrote:
"frank1492" wrote in message
...
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

Worked the retail floor for 25 years. We referred to it as the "bean
counters" in the head office controlling the stores, If their computer told
them that a certain profit or sales volume wasn't met on a certain item,
they no longer allowed the stores to sell it. Sears, a few years ago
dropped bicycles from their lineup because as the "bean counters" said, it
accounted for only about 1% of their business and wasn't worth the bother.
Now, a lot of companies would have killed for a product that accounted for
1% of a 40 billion dollar business. The following Christmas, I can only
imagine where people finished up their shopping after coming into the store
and were told they couldn't buy the kids Christmas bike, there. I'm seeing
the same situation at WalMart right now. I've been restoring an old pontoon
boat and I went in to buy a pedestal stand for a seat. Always saw them
there before, along with the paddles, trolling motors, etc. None of that
was there anymore. The "associate" said that the department had been
"downsized". When they stopped selling guns, they said that it was because
they didn't sell enough to justify the carrying of them. Sounds like the
"bean counters" talking again. I guess, I'll just do my shopping at Gander
Mountain from now on. The price difference isn't worth the extra gas spent
in driving to WalMart.

Tom G.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:39:54 GMT, frank1492
wrote:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this?

The only thing I noticed was today, at a store that just opened 10
days ago, that they don't have many glues in the 4 oz.
toothpaste-style tube. I was in a conversation with a friendly clerk
who said they were still stocking the store, that he put out new
things several times a day. I said the area was full, but he said
that one of the vendors for glue got their first and just filled the
area with his stuff, and when the other stuff comes, they'll rearrange
things. I should say that this HD store just opened about 10 days
ago.

But I"m going to check out other stores and another HD to see if HD
rreally sells things like 4 oz. tubes of GE silicone, and DURO rubber,
etc. I know if it's sold in a caulking tube, you get 6? times as much
150% of the price, but otoh, if I have no other uses, it will dry in
the tube.

I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level.

Even so, with computerized inventory, they should always have almost
full inventory

(unless something unusual happens. I met a guy today who wanted 40 of
the all rubber elastic cords. He had about 20 in his cart, and he was
looking up at the big boxes 8 feet up to see if there were more. But
there weren't, it seemed, so he was going to another store to buy
another 20. He said he had a long truck, and he needed 40!

In addition, it has become much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.).

I never noticed that they had that to begin with. Except one guy.

While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

I agree with your uggh. The HD guy I talked to today confirmed that
Walmart is really opening a store only a block from the new HD, both
only a mile from where I live. I was able to boycott Walborg when
they were not nearby, but boy was it nice to be able to go to HD twice
in one day today, because I found something else I needed and it was
no effort to get there.

BTW, I don't prefer HD to Lowes, but there are a lot more HD's. I
only know of 3 or 4 Lowes in extended metropolitan Baltimore, but I
know of 4 HD's within 6 miles of me, and more farther.

I don't like Walmart because I think they abuse their employees, and
lie about it, and intimidate them so few complain.

When did Sam Walton die? They have been selling Chinese stuff for a
long time, I thought.

I used to work for International Paper by the way, but only for 2
months or so on one computer project.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:17:02 -0500, Al Bundy
wrote:

frank1492 wrote in
:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank


I have noticed this over the past couple of years.

And discontnuing items for a higher priced line. Example comes to mind.
Went to get a plastic toilet supply line. Empty. Knowledgable employee I
know nearby. Says they were discontinued and they will only have the
metal braded from now on.

And please, don't someone say how much better they are. They may be but
the betterness will never get used. Never had a plastic one explode on me
yet!

You obviously need a pressure booster.

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows!

Funny you should mention that.

I went to HD for copper sweat on fittings. They had contractor packs for
let's say, $2.50 for ten fittings. I bought all they had. When I got to
the cashier, she could not ring up the loose ones because they did not have
individual SKUs on them.

Call the manager.

Stand around.

Line behind me gets longer.

Repeat the last three steps about three times.

Meanwhile, I say, "Look. $2.50 divided by ten equals a quarter apiece.
Charge me that."

"Oh, I can't do that. I'll lose my job," was the response from the
oblivious nineteen year old clerk.

Finally, after about ten minutes, I walked out, leaving about $300 worth of
merchandise sitting there.

Steve

frank1492 wrote:
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

Home depot moves in with decent prices and a half way knowledgeable
staff...one person in each department who knows somewhat something
about the items in his department. I noticed when they first got here
they had some pretty decent prices...

Okay...home depot gets established and then puts all local small time
hardware and building supply businesses out of business....home depot
prices then start rising and now I have noticed that their staff is
getting dumber....

I find myself going to lowes more now because of the better selection
and the brighter cleaner store..... also our local Lowes has 2 midgets
working in the store...not one...but TWO midgets...a man and a
woman...... I have not dealt with the woman much but the man hangs out
around the tool area and he knows exactly where everything on his end
of the store is...tools, plumbing, electrical..hardware.....

What are the odds of having two midgets working in one Lowes ???

Not making fun of them...dont know any other word than midget to
describe to them and I dont mean it in an offensive way.

Home depot is dark and dank.....poor selection of goods.....
Lowes clean and bright store...better selection of goods...tremendously
better selection of tools.

I do miss my old local ace hardware....I knew exactly where everything
in that store was...knew the people by name...could hang out in there
and chat about things...Lowes and home depot employees seem cold....all
business....but its not their fault...Id say they got the secret HD or
Lowes police in there ready to pounce upon any employee wasting time by
striking up a convo with a customer.

I saw a documentary where Walmart gets 2-3 manufacture's reps in an room and
forces them to bid against one another down to the penny. They almost
destroyed Rubbermaid because the cost of raw materials went up and they
wouldn't renegotiate; Wall mart almost destroyed them. They don't treat
their employees much better either. There were allegations where they made
the employees punch out and forced them to continue working. Nice bunch of
folks.
Ron
wrote in message
oups.com...
Go to any walmart where there is a certain population near the 1st of
the month and see how crowded it is.

frank1492 wrote:
I have read that Walmart's presence in the economy in essence
raises disposable personal income by .9% due to its low prices
relative to other retailers. Aside from the low wages they pay
their employees, nobody ever seems to mention the way in which
Walmart benefits low income consumers overall.
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.




On 17 Aug 2006 19:18:04 -0700, "bryanska"
wrote:

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I hate Wal-Mart for two reasons:

1) Ever since Sam Walton died, all items are no longer made in USA. Not
only is the store depressing prices and local economies, Wal-Mart is
contributing to the trade deficit. Whereas before it was a local
problem, it's now nationwide.

Sound "liberal"? Listen to #2.

2) I work for a major Fortune 500 company that has a huge packaging
department. Our box suppliers (my vendors) are forced to do business
with Wal-Mart because they dominate many portions of commercial
logistics. If they don't deal with Wal-Mart, they can't compete.
However, Wal-mart demands such low prices from these box companies, the
margins leave nothing for re-investment. International Paper, for
example, owes a portion of its crushing debt to Wal-Mart, and the
company may not survive. My company is facing higher prices and worse
service because these companies are finding it difficult to grow.

So the bleeding-heart aspects of hating Wal-Mart are beginning to be
eclipsed by a growing, similar undercurrent in the business world.

These guys are assholes to deal with, too. Try navigating the Byzantine
rules of selling anything in their store.

"R & S" wrote in message
m...
I saw a documentary where Walmart gets 2-3 manufacture's reps in an room
and forces them to bid against one another down to the penny. They almost
destroyed Rubbermaid because the cost of raw materials went up and they
wouldn't renegotiate; Wall mart almost destroyed them. They don't treat
their employees much better either. There were allegations where they made
the employees punch out and forced them to continue working. Nice bunch of
folks.
Ron

Sister in law works at a WalMart. The "associates" were just told that all
wages are frozen as the company is opening two new stores in the area.
What's this, they can't tap their investors or profits for the money to do
that; they have to get the money off the backs of their present employees.
When she was off work because of cancer surgery, the store told her she had
to come back before the doctor recommended or they were going to give her
job to someone else. She begged the doctor for an early release. Then when
she couldn't handle carrying tires and batteries from the back room for the
mechanics to install, she asked her supervisor for a transfer to a position
that didn't require the heavy lifting. He told her he had an opening
unloading trucks....when she broke down in tears, he said "I was just
kidding". Insensitive clod or maybe typical of management at WalMart. A
fellow employee asked her once where her husband was at the moment and she
said that he was at a union meeting (works somewhere else). Her supervisor
overheard and called her into his office and told her that she couldn't use
that word (union) in the store and that he was supposed to write her up for
doing so but wasn't going to "this" time. What a place to work....I can't
believe the job market is so bad that people feel they have to put up with
that kind of crap.

Tom G.

If you dont like it at walmart- LEAVE!!! Walmart has the best prices
and good selection.
They help paychecks go farther. Retail jobs are supposed to be done by
teens who realize how bad they are, go to college and get a good paying
job.

Tom G wrote:
"R & S" wrote in message
m...
I saw a documentary where Walmart gets 2-3 manufacture's reps in an room
and forces them to bid against one another down to the penny. They almost
destroyed Rubbermaid because the cost of raw materials went up and they
wouldn't renegotiate; Wall mart almost destroyed them. They don't treat
their employees much better either. There were allegations where they made
the employees punch out and forced them to continue working. Nice bunch of
folks.
Ron

Sister in law works at a WalMart. The "associates" were just told that all
wages are frozen as the company is opening two new stores in the area.
What's this, they can't tap their investors or profits for the money to do
that; they have to get the money off the backs of their present employees.
When she was off work because of cancer surgery, the store told her she had
to come back before the doctor recommended or they were going to give her
job to someone else. She begged the doctor for an early release. Then when
she couldn't handle carrying tires and batteries from the back room for the
mechanics to install, she asked her supervisor for a transfer to a position
that didn't require the heavy lifting. He told her he had an opening
unloading trucks....when she broke down in tears, he said "I was just
kidding". Insensitive clod or maybe typical of management at WalMart. A
fellow employee asked her once where her husband was at the moment and she
said that he was at a union meeting (works somewhere else). Her supervisor
overheard and called her into his office and told her that she couldn't use
that word (union) in the store and that he was supposed to write her up for
doing so but wasn't going to "this" time. What a place to work....I can't
believe the job market is so bad that people feel they have to put up with
that kind of crap.

Tom G.

In article , frank1492 wrote:
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.

So don't go there. Visit one of their competitors instead.

See? That wasn't so hard, was it?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

wrote:

That is basically what I have heard. I wonder how many
customers, though, have gotten as upset as I have over it.
A couple of key questions:
(1) Why do you prefer HD to Lowe's?

I prefer Lowe's-- but I suspect that is because they are the 'New Guy'
in our town. The gap is narrowing as Lowe's sinks lower and lower
in the customer service, quality, and 'have it onhand' departments.

(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?

I don't. I suspect that about 1/2 of the Walmart haters also hate
Microsoft, IBM, Disney, Toyota, and any other company that has found a
successful business model and made a crapload of money. [is Google
soon to be on that list?] Another large segment might hate them for
their treatment of their employees.

If I have a choice I prefer to shop at my locally owned grocer- my
local hardware store, and my local electronics place. But sometimes
it just makes sense to go to Walmart and save myself a bunch of $ and
a lot of time.

Jim

Although I do still like Wal*Mart, there was an article
in the paper that said they were going to carry fewer
brands. I have already noticed that- no more Jubilee
sheets for example. Also, numerous other items. Not
a good sign.







On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:39:54 GMT, frank1492
wrote:

I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

Wow! I never thought of that! Thanks!




On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:41:05 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , frank1492 wrote:
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.

So don't go there. Visit one of their competitors instead.

See? That wasn't so hard, was it?

Officially...dwarfs. Diplomatically...little people.

wrote in message
ups.com...

frank1492 wrote:
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

Home depot moves in with decent prices and a half way knowledgeable
staff...one person in each department who knows somewhat something
about the items in his department. I noticed when they first got here
they had some pretty decent prices...

Okay...home depot gets established and then puts all local small time
hardware and building supply businesses out of business....home depot
prices then start rising and now I have noticed that their staff is
getting dumber....

I find myself going to lowes more now because of the better selection
and the brighter cleaner store..... also our local Lowes has 2 midgets
working in the store...not one...but TWO midgets...a man and a
woman...... I have not dealt with the woman much but the man hangs out
around the tool area and he knows exactly where everything on his end
of the store is...tools, plumbing, electrical..hardware.....

What are the odds of having two midgets working in one Lowes ???

Not making fun of them...dont know any other word than midget to
describe to them and I dont mean it in an offensive way.

Home depot is dark and dank.....poor selection of goods.....
Lowes clean and bright store...better selection of goods...tremendously
better selection of tools.

I do miss my old local ace hardware....I knew exactly where everything
in that store was...knew the people by name...could hang out in there
and chat about things...Lowes and home depot employees seem cold....all
business....but its not their fault...Id say they got the secret HD or
Lowes police in there ready to pounce upon any employee wasting time by
striking up a convo with a customer.

I love Walmart. Ask any senior citizen on a limited budget.
"frank1492" wrote in message
...
That is basically what I have heard. I wonder how many
customers, though, have gotten as upset as I have over it.
A couple of key questions:
(1) Why do you prefer HD to Lowe's?
(2) Why does *everybody* hate Wal*Mart?





On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


"frank1492" wrote in message
. ..
I used to take great joy in visiting HD, but over the past year it has
become a frustrating experience. (I live in MA.) Every time I need
something these days, they are out os stock, and I'm not talking
slow-moving stuff, I'm talking basics like 3/4" copper elbows! They
tell me they can't order when they need something these days,
but receive stuff only when the home office tells them they need
it!
The other day, they only had ONE model of hedge trimmer in
stock in the Worcester store, so I went to Lowe's. No problem
finding HedgeHogs there.
Anybody else seeing this? One other observation: If an item
can be found at both Wal*Mart and HD, Walmart usually steps
all over HD on price.
I'm starting to dread going to HD.
Frank

HD is based here in Atlanta, so the local media gives them a fair amount
of
coverage. Some of the things which have come out in the last few years is
that the folks at the corporate office have more or less taken the power
away from the stores. Once upon a time, the store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level. In addition, it has become
much
easier to get a job in one of the stores because the company has moved
away
from hiring experts for the respective departments (i.e. someone with
plumbing experience in the plumbing dept.). While HD hasn't devolved into
*just another retail store*, it isn't nearly as service and customer
oriented as it was a few years back.

The bottom line is that HD isn't what it used to be, although I still
prefer
it to Lowes and (uggh) Wal-mart.

mm wrote:
Even so, with computerized inventory, they [HD] should always have almost
full inventory

Having worked in management for a department store, I can tell you that
companies' buying lines rely entirely too much on the computerized
sales and restocking figures. They have no clue what customers want,
because they have no idea how many customers come into a store looking
for something they don't carry.

Example: let's say the big box hardware store (BBHS) carries
replacement parts for Char-Broil, Weber and Vermont Castings. That's
all they stock, and that's all customers who make purchases at the BBHS
buy. Salespeople at the stores know that there are a lot of customers
coming in looking for Ducane, but can't buy it so they go elsewhere,
and the BBHS loses that business. But the buying line has no idea
because they have ZERO contact with the store to know not only what it
is customers are buying, but what it is customers would LIKE to buy but
can't because they don't carry it.

Having spent three months shopping at Home Depot or Lowe's at least
four times a week while renovating a house, and having had both good
and bad experiences at both, I can tell you the problem isn't one
retailer or the other, it's the entire retail model these days. I wish
I had the time to find all the good mom-and-pop stores in my area I
need to take care of my house, but the BBHS is so much more
convenient...

frank1492 wrote:
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.


There is no debate and there are no merits.
Wallmart is bad for everyone except wallmart.

Dave

wrote:
If you dont like it at walmart- LEAVE!!! Walmart has the best prices
and good selection.

Even you gotta know that this is going to change once there are no
alternatives.
They can treat their employees the way they do because they employ
people with few alternatives.
What do you think is going to happen when the shoppers have no
alternative?

Dave

mm,

Computerized inventory needs to be deigned to include theft and damage. A
while back I was at Lowes shopping for a 90 deg stove pipe elbow. There was
one mangled elbow on the shelf. There were 3 elbows listed in their
computer. The store clerk couldn't find the elbows and left the damaged one
on the shelf. A month later I looked again, out of curiosity, and they still
had one damaged elbow on the shelf.

Dave M.
..

In article , "Craven Morehead" wrote:
Officially...dwarfs.

No. "Dwarf" and "midget" mean two different things.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

When walmart no longer offers consumers what they want , walmart will
go the way of Bradlees, Steinbachs, Two Guys, Caldor, and every other
retail corp that went bankrupt.
Someone will take its place. Home Depot grew because they were far
better than mom & pop hardware stores with low prices and great
selection. The retail environment is not set in stone. Once a business
no longer serves a purpose it changes or fails. Look at GM. They
thought that Americans would buy American out of loyalty but years of
turning out crap has killed them along with the lazy overpaid union
workers they employ.
Toyota, Subaru etc can pay an extra 50Cents for a switch or part
because labor is lower cost w/o unions. Guess what the part lasts
longer giving the brand a reputation for quality


wrote:
wrote:
If you dont like it at walmart- LEAVE!!! Walmart has the best prices
and good selection.

Even you gotta know that this is going to change once there are no
alternatives.
They can treat their employees the way they do because they employ
people with few alternatives.
What do you think is going to happen when the shoppers have no
alternative?

Dave

wrote:
wrote:
If you dont like it at walmart- LEAVE!!! Walmart has the best prices
and good selection.

Even you gotta know that this is going to change once there are no
alternatives.
They can treat their employees the way they do because they employ
people with few alternatives.
What do you think is going to happen when the shoppers have no
alternative?

Dave


As dynamic as the US economy is, I'm amazed that people think this is
the scenario we face. Most items that are sold at Walmart can be
found at Kmart, Home Depot, Lowes, Costco, Sams Club, local super
market, etc. History has tought that it's more likely a new business
model or competitor will be the undoing of giants like Walmart.
Anyone remember what's happened to companies like IBM and GM?

As for their employees, they are free to find jobs elsewhere. With
unemployment under 5%, jobs are available for those that want them.

I'm a frequent shopper at Walmart and find that they have good products
at favorable prices. All they are doing is competing in today's world
economy, that they don't control.

On 08/17/06 11:41 pm Tom G wrote:

Worked the retail floor for 25 years. We referred to it as the "bean
counters" in the head office controlling the stores, If their computer told
them that a certain profit or sales volume wasn't met on a certain item,
they no longer allowed the stores to sell it. Sears, a few years ago
dropped bicycles from their lineup because as the "bean counters" said, it
accounted for only about 1% of their business and wasn't worth the bother.
Now, a lot of companies would have killed for a product that accounted for
1% of a 40 billion dollar business. The following Christmas, I can only
imagine where people finished up their shopping after coming into the store
and were told they couldn't buy the kids Christmas bike, there. I'm seeing
the same situation at WalMart right now. I've been restoring an old pontoon
boat and I went in to buy a pedestal stand for a seat. Always saw them
there before, along with the paddles, trolling motors, etc. None of that
was there anymore. The "associate" said that the department had been
"downsized". When they stopped selling guns, they said that it was because
they didn't sell enough to justify the carrying of them. Sounds like the
"bean counters" talking again. I guess, I'll just do my shopping at Gander
Mountain from now on. The price difference isn't worth the extra gas spent
in driving to WalMart.

This may tie in with something I read or heard recently: Many businesses
stock only good-turnover items in their bricks-and-mortar stores but
have a far larger range of stuff available on line. It's possible that
walmart.com would have had what you wanted for less than Gander Mountain
(even after taking shipping charges into account).

Perce

wrote:
wrote:
If you dont like it at walmart- LEAVE!!! Walmart has the best prices
and good selection.

Even you gotta know that this is going to change once there are no
alternatives.
They can treat their employees the way they do because they employ
people with few alternatives.
What do you think is going to happen when the shoppers have no
alternative?

If the shoppers ultimately have no alternative, that's the best of all
possible worlds. That means that no one can offer better prices, better
selection, better service, or any of the other reasons people choose to shop
where they do.


Wal-Mart does not exist for the convenience of its employees. The employees
may have few or no alternatives, but how is that Wal-Mart's fault? And why
should Wal-Mart undertake to "solve" a "problem" it did not create?

Fact is, Wal-Mart provides a path of upward mobility that these employees
never had before. Some significant percentage of store managers started as
backroom or floor employees and advanced within the company.

On 08/17/06 11:49 pm wrote:

Just my 2 cents here about why I hate lowes MORE than HD.

When in Lowes here in NY I cannot find ANYONE to assist.
They call, page and get nothing. Thats bull.

The people who they have working at my local one are locals
that dont know ANYTHING about their departments.
(I found this out on the rare occasion I found someone in the
first place)

The local HD are not much better, but at least they can direct
you in the right direction on where to find stuff. I wouldnt
never rely on the HD guys opinion on a project. I rather
get second and third opinions from people in the newgroups.

When we lived on Long Island, we had four HDs within a reasonable
distance, but not all with the same stock or atmosphere. Only at one of
them were customers metaphorically frisked as they left. Lowe's came
later. Each carried stuff that the others didn't, but I can't say that
there was a whole lot to choose between them.

Now in W. Michigan, we have Lowe's just around the corner and a few HD
stores much farther away. We also have small Menards (Wisconsin-based
chain), True Value, Ace, and Do-It-Best stores. Now HD is due to open
within the next month or two and a much bigger Menards within the next
year. (This all in spite of a plummeting job market and a more-or-less
static housing market.) It will be interesting to see how everything
works out.

When we first moved here, Lowe's had a "decruited" electronics engineer
working in the electrical dept., but he is now working in the garden
dept. watering plants.

Perce

wrote:
frank1492 wrote:
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.


There is no debate and there are no merits.
Wallmart is bad for everyone except wallmart.

40 million shoppers say you're wrong. They voted with their feet and their
dollars.


The average Wal-Mart shopper spends $2300 annually at Wal-Mart. Assuming
this is 10% lower than they would have spent without Wal-Mart, times the
number of shoppers, you'll find that Wal-Mart provides, each year, a greater
dollar benefit to society than all the government's welfare programs
combined.

And the company pays taxes while they do it.

On 08/18/06 07:38 am wrote:

If you dont like it at walmart- LEAVE!!! Walmart has the best prices
and good selection.
They help paychecks go farther. Retail jobs are supposed to be done by
teens who realize how bad they are, go to college and get a good paying
job.

Silly me! Here was I thinking that retail stores were supposed to be
staffed by qualified, well-motivated people who know what the store
sells, where to find it, and whether that is what truly meets the
customer's needs.

If retailers are going to employ unmotivated people who know nothing
about the products (which is not the same as saying that they are
idiots), then maybe retailers will simply disappear as more and more
people buy from amazon.com or buy.com.

Perce

On 08/18/06 11:02 am HeyBub wrote:

40 million shoppers say you're wrong. They voted with their feet and their
dollars.

The average Wal-Mart shopper spends $2300 annually at Wal-Mart. Assuming
this is 10% lower than they would have spent without Wal-Mart, times the
number of shoppers, you'll find that Wal-Mart provides, each year, a greater
dollar benefit to society than all the government's welfare programs
combined.

And the company pays taxes while they do it.

Yes, Wal-Mart pays corporate taxes at the same time they are getting
massive tax breaks from towns and cities where they open stores.

But whether it's Wal-Mart, HD, Lowe's, or Joe's Building Supplies, I
think it's a disgrace that the wages for a 40-hour week (or perhaps even
a 50- or 60-hour week) are not enough to put a roof over the worker's
head, put food on his/her table, meet the costs of transportation at
least to and from work, and cover health-care costs --at least not in
any place reasonably fit for human habitation.

Perce

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:59:49 GMT, "Tom G"
wrote:


"R & S" wrote in message
om...
I saw a documentary where Walmart gets 2-3 manufacture's reps in an room
and forces them to bid against one another down to the penny. They almost
destroyed Rubbermaid because the cost of raw materials went up and they
wouldn't renegotiate; Wall mart almost destroyed them. They don't treat
their employees much better either. There were allegations where they made
the employees punch out and forced them to continue working. Nice bunch of
folks.
Ron

Sister in law works at a WalMart. The "associates" were just told that all
wages are frozen as the company is opening two new stores in the area.
What's this, they can't tap their investors or profits for the money to do
that; they have to get the money off the backs of their present employees.
When she was off work because of cancer surgery, the store told her she had
to come back before the doctor recommended or they were going to give her
job to someone else. She begged the doctor for an early release. Then when
she couldn't handle carrying tires and batteries from the back room for the
mechanics to install, she asked her supervisor for a transfer to a position
that didn't require the heavy lifting. He told her he had an opening
unloading trucks....when she broke down in tears, he said "I was just
kidding". Insensitive clod or maybe typical of management at WalMart. A
fellow employee asked her once where her husband was at the moment and she
said that he was at a union meeting (works somewhere else). Her supervisor
overheard and called her into his office and told her that she couldn't use
that word (union) in the store and that he was supposed to write her up for
doing so but wasn't going to "this" time. What a place to work....I can't
believe the job market is so bad that people feel they have to put up with
that kind of crap.

Tom G.


Nothing against your sister in law, but really. Not all, but a good
percentage of Walmart workers (at least in my 3-4 local stores) really
don't look like they would be able to handle working anywhere else. As
far as your sister in law, when the supervisor said he should write
her up...she should have demanded that he did so. Then she should have
taken a copy of the write up to the local tv satation, newspaper, etc.
Walmart does not like that kind of publicity. The only thing that
bothers me about the Walmart bashing crowd is that they say Walmart is
helpng the Chinese blah blah blah....then they go to KMart, Sears,
Home depot, etc etc etc. and buy Chinese made stuff. I don't see much
difference really...except it's cheaper at Walmart. I just bought some
nice guitar cables at Walmert, made in MO...so I was glad to see that
they still have some USA stuff.

On 18 Aug 2006 06:18:20 -0700, wrote:


frank1492 wrote:
Your comments, however, are most informative and accurate
I am sure. Our differences are examples of why there is such heated
debate on the relative merits of this company.


There is no debate and there are no merits.
Wallmart is bad for everyone except wallmart.

Dave

....just like every other company in America and probably the world.

On 17 Aug 2006 20:49:37 -0700, wrote:

Just my 2 cents here about why I hate lowes MORE than HD.

When in Lowes here in NY I cannot find ANYONE to assist.
They call, page and get nothing. Thats bull.

The people who they have working at my local one are locals
that dont know ANYTHING about their departments.
(I found this out on the rare occasion I found someone in the
first place)

The local HD are not much better, but at least they can direct
you in the right direction on where to find stuff. I wouldnt
never rely on the HD guys opinion on a project. I rather
get second and third opinions from people in the newgroups.

I've had a similar experience. I have about 5 HD's nearby. Finally a
few years back we got a Lowes. I was happy. went there a few times,
the store was empty and I could not get any help. I was redoing a
kitchen at the time, looking at cabinets. The people in the kitchen
design area would not talk to me, I had to make an appointment. There
was NO ONE there!! They had no customers. Since Lowes opened, the
workers at the local HD have really stepped up...it's even funny how
many of them say hello, can I help you? as you walk through the
store. They are doing a great job. I appreciate HD more since Lowes
came to town. This is LI NY by the way.

mm wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:45:11 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:

....
... Once upon a time, the (HD) store managers had a lot of
latitude on what to stock, how to price it, etc. Today, virtually all of
that is controlled at the corporate level.

Even so, with computerized inventory, they should always have almost
full inventory

(unless something unusual happens. ...)

Well, "yes but..."

While true in theory, reality is that there is the overall
profitability that is what is attempting to be maximized and that
includes delivery costs, manufacturing and delivery costs/timing,
inventory costs and turnover amongst other variables. Simply looking
at the number of widgets in a bin and sending out more in a purely
automatic response might keep inventory on the shelves but wouldn't
necessarily bring in more net revenue (and probably wouldn't for most
items)...

When did Sam Walton die? They have been selling Chinese stuff for a
long time, I thought.
....

I don't recall the date, but the shift from "Buy America" to "Buy
Cheap" came following his death and that is what precipitated the mass
stampede to Chinese and other third-world manufacturers. Of course,
Wally-World isn't the only one, just the leader--essentially everyone
has had to follow suit in order to compete. Simply try to find common
consumer products of the type W-M stocks and see if you can actually
find a non-third-world supplier for any of them---usually it can't be
done except in really large metro areas with very specialized shops,
and even then not necessarily.

When (and if) consumers decide to flock away to somewhere other than
W-M, they will either change or (as in Germany) withdraw. I personally
avoid them as much as possible because a) they're _not_
convenient--it's too big, takes too much wandering around to try to
find an item or two; b) typically it's crowded so it takes longer to
get in/out; c) there really isn't that much difference in cost for most
items to make it worth the hassle; d) unless it really is just
"consumer junk", there really isn't anything there I want, anyway.

PS. Being in what most would consider a small town, there are the
occasional instances that there actually isn't much if any alternative
any longer as the influence of the BORG-syndrome is most observable on
the independent businesses in smaller communities which don't have the
population base to support the smaller merchants as well.