I have to locate a breaker for an outlet, maybe two if they are are
separate breakers. I know where the panel(s) are, but not which breaker
controls the outlet. I can't shut off the breakers until I find it since
there is other equipment that I don't want to shut down.

What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

If the risk is low, what's the best way to short it out? I was thining of
a plug where I stripped the two wires, tied them together and taped the
end. Anything better?

--
cahrles

Charles Bishop wrote:

I have to locate a breaker for an outlet, maybe two if they are are
separate breakers. I know where the panel(s) are, but not which breaker
controls the outlet. I can't shut off the breakers until I find it since
there is other equipment that I don't want to shut down.

What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

If the risk is low, what's the best way to short it out? I was thining of
a plug where I stripped the two wires, tied them together and taped the
end. Anything better?

--
cahrles

The best way to find this is with one of the electronic tracker setups,
or a pulsating load (light with a flasher) and a clamp on amp probe.

The shorting method will work (I've done it in a pinch) but it's not
pretty. The safest way would be to wire a switch in a proper electrical
box to a short cord with a plug. This protects you and the outlet from
the arc and lets you use an old junk switch if you have one to take the
abuse.

Circuit breakers can have their trip points drift (generally lower) with
repeated trips so you don't want to do it more than once if you can help
it.

Pete C.

Charles Bishop wrote:
I have to locate a breaker for an outlet, maybe two if they are are
separate breakers. I know where the panel(s) are, but not which
breaker controls the outlet. I can't shut off the breakers until I
find it since there is other equipment that I don't want to shut down.

What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

If the risk is low, what's the best way to short it out? I was
thining of a plug where I stripped the two wires, tied them together
and taped the end. Anything better?

I would avoid shorting it out. If everything is working right, it will
be OK, it is also possible that you may find a weak link in the system.
Stop by the the tool store and get a tool to hunt it down. Note: even after
you have identified it, double check that after turning off that circuit
that both outlets are now dead, as you wisely indicated, they may not be on
the same circuit.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Charles Bishop" wrote in message
...
I have to locate a breaker for an outlet, maybe two if they are are
separate breakers. I know where the panel(s) are, but not which breaker
controls the outlet. I can't shut off the breakers until I find it since
there is other equipment that I don't want to shut down.

Have you checked to see if the panel(s) are labeled?
How do you know that the circuit that you want to trip is not also powering
the other equipment that you want to keep on?


What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

Maybe damaging a breaker? Doesn't happen real often but is a possibility.
I have had to replace breakers for people after a short or miswire. After
finding and correcting the fault, the breaker would not reset and had to be
replaced.

Sometimes the main will also trip on a dead short.

Kevin




If the risk is low, what's the best way to short it out? I was thining of
a plug where I stripped the two wires, tied them together and taped the
end. Anything better?

--
cahrles

CB asked:
What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

Ray replied:
Burned fingers
Electrocution
Fire
Melted insulation that will short later
Damage to other appliances on that circuit
Damaged breaker

Probably none of these things will happen but if you really insist on
doing this it would probably be *slightly* safer to strip the ends of
an old plug and touch them together briefly while holding the ends with
rubber handled pliers. If you plug in something hard-wired to short
and the breaker doesn't trip, now you have to pull it out before the
fire starts.

CB also said:
....can't shut off the breakers until I find it since there is other
equipment that I don't want to shut down.

Ray asked:
What happens when the power goes out? You have about a 50/50 chance of
shutting off the outlet before the 'other equipment'. I'd take those
odds over intentionaly shorting an outlet...

Probably none of these things will happen but if you really insist on
doing this it would probably be *slightly* safer to strip the ends of
an old plug and touch them together briefly while holding the ends with
rubber handled pliers.

He says as molten metal sprays his face and hands

I find a toaster oven and microwave oven running at the same time is a
relaible and safe way to trip a breaker (typical 20A)

In article .com,
RayV wrote:
CB asked:
What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

Ray replied:
Burned fingers
Electrocution
Fire
Melted insulation that will short later
Damage to other appliances on that circuit
Damaged breaker

Probably none of these things will happen but if you really insist on
doing this it would probably be *slightly* safer to strip the ends of
an old plug and touch them together briefly while holding the ends with
rubber handled pliers. If you plug in something hard-wired to short
and the breaker doesn't trip, now you have to pull it out before the
fire starts.


Depending on the quality of the short, and the trip rating of all the
breakers in the path, it is possible for a bolted fault on a branch
circuit to trip the main breaker. I have seen it happen, with a 20a 240v
circuit (wired as a dead short between two phases*), that tripped a 400a
main breaker with no hesitation. In this case, the 20a breaker was closed
into the short, and the main tripped in the blink of an eye.


(* when wiring a 240 volt outlet, you DO NOT attach both phases to one
terminal, and the neutral to another. The stage carpenter didn't know this..
needless to say, he does now..)



--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --

In article ,
(Bob Vaughan) wrote:

In article .com,
RayV wrote:
CB asked:
What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

Ray replied:
Burned fingers
Electrocution
Fire
Melted insulation that will short later
Damage to other appliances on that circuit
Damaged breaker

Probably none of these things will happen but if you really insist on
doing this it would probably be *slightly* safer to strip the ends of
an old plug and touch them together briefly while holding the ends with
rubber handled pliers. If you plug in something hard-wired to short
and the breaker doesn't trip, now you have to pull it out before the
fire starts.


Depending on the quality of the short, and the trip rating of all the
breakers in the path, it is possible for a bolted fault on a branch
circuit to trip the main breaker. I have seen it happen, with a 20a 240v
circuit (wired as a dead short between two phases), that tripped a 400a
main breaker with no hesitation. In this case, the 20a breaker was closed
into the short, and the main tripped in the blink of an eye.

I chickened out and bought a breaker locator. $35, I think. It wasn't the
best tool but it helped. I plugged a "sender" unit into the outlet, then
took the "finder" unit down to the panel box. Turn on the finder and run
the nose along the breakers in the panel until it beeps. Well, it beeps on
all breakers right away, so I turn the adjustment wheel until it stops
beeping on one breaker then go to the next. Continue doing this (adjusting
the sensitivity) until just one breaker makes it beep.

Unfortunately, the wrong breaker can make it beep depending on how the
wiring is run. While I didn't have to turn off all the breakers, I ended
up turning off about 1/4 of them before I found the correct one.

For the second outlet I was looking at, I got beeps on some main panel
breakers when the actual breaker was in a sub-panel. I understand that the
more expensive models eliminate some of the false positives, but I think
the price of those are $150. If I did this more often, it would be worth
it, but since I only have to do so infrequently, I'll stick with the
radio, or my new gizmo.

[snip footnote]

--
charles

On 9 May 2006 05:38:43 -0700, "RayV" wrote:

CB asked:
What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

Ray replied:
Burned fingers
Electrocution
Fire
Melted insulation that will short later
Damage to other appliances on that circuit
Damaged breaker

Probably none of these things will happen but if you really insist on
doing this it would probably be *slightly* safer to strip the ends of
an old plug and touch them together briefly while holding the ends with
rubber handled pliers. If you plug in something hard-wired to short
and the breaker doesn't trip, now you have to pull it out before the
fire starts.


How about using a momentary contact pushbutton switch?

CB also said:
...can't shut off the breakers until I find it since there is other
equipment that I don't want to shut down.

Ray asked:
What happens when the power goes out? You have about a 50/50 chance of
shutting off the outlet before the 'other equipment'. I'd take those
odds over intentionaly shorting an outlet...
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

You could plug in two heat devices (hair dryer plus space heater) and
trip the breaker that way.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"RayV" wrote in message
oups.com...
CB asked:
What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the breaker so I can find it?

Depending on "how", not much. In fact you could earn a Darwin Award in
the process if done correctly.

Written with tongue planted firmly into cheek ;-)

DAC

I have used the short outlet to find breaker method. POnce I found a
bad breaker that never tripped, and melted the wiring. no biggie for me
but perhapos a deal breaker for you.

If your main panel has FPE stab lock breakers DONT USE THE SHORT
METHOD. Once a FPE breaker has tripped on a short it may never trip
again. REPL:ACE THE PANEL ASAP!

Just whats so important you cant shut off breakers? the power company
has popwer failures, so everything is designed to tolerate power offs.

plug a radio in the outlets with volume up high then trip breakers one
at a time till the radio quits.

safest best method...... do when no one else is home, most that can
happen is some flashing 12;00 CLOCKS

dont tell anyone they will nver know.... thinking house just had power
failure

Its best to check every device in home and make a breaker chart so you
know in the future

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have used the short outlet to find breaker method. POnce I found a
bad breaker that never tripped, and melted the wiring. no biggie for me
but perhapos a deal breaker for you.

If your main panel has FPE stab lock breakers DONT USE THE SHORT
METHOD. Once a FPE breaker has tripped on a short it may never trip
again. REPL:ACE THE PANEL ASAP!

Just whats so important you cant shut off breakers? the power company
has popwer failures, so everything is designed to tolerate power offs.

plug a radio in the outlets with volume up high then trip breakers one
at a time till the radio quits.

safest best method...... do when no one else is home, most that can
happen is some flashing 12;00 CLOCKS

dont tell anyone they will nver know.... thinking house just had power
failure

Its best to check every device in home and make a breaker chart so you
know in the future


Fair enough, if he had life critical equipment like a medical ventilator or
monitor, those things should be on a UPS. Same for a website server etc.

Likely a toaster and a hair dryer on full power will draw enough current to
trip the breaker.

"Charles Bishop" wrote in message
...
I have to locate a breaker for an outlet, maybe two if they are are
separate breakers. I know where the panel(s) are, but not which breaker
controls the outlet. I can't shut off the breakers until I find it since
there is other equipment that I don't want to shut down.

What am I risking by "shorting" out the outlet and having it trip the
breaker so I can find it?

If the risk is low, what's the best way to short it out? I was thining of
a plug where I stripped the two wires, tied them together and taped the
end. Anything better?

--
cahrles