Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had a
plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it was
letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised the
question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't blasting; he
says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I just don't see
it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at a
specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just phoned
again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should "turn the
water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so as not to
risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

Hey Shane,
Sounds like the plumber is talking about an expansion tank. Which
doesn't make sense to me with your issue. Expansion tanks are used for
heated water since hot water expands and in a closed system water
expansion could get to a dangerous level and cause some aspect of the
water lines to rupture. An expansion tank is flexible and can expand
and contract with water pressure dilations. This however will not to
my knowledge solve your COLD water pressure issues since an expansion
tank (again if we are talking about the same thing) hangs off the hot
water lines after it is already in your house and through the water
heater.

145 psi sounds.....incredibly high. When I test copper fittings I
usually compress the lines to about 80psi and that's high enough.
I don't know about your unique situation but what I can think is
possibly someone never reduced the 3/4in copper line to your facet so
you are getting a much larger load of water at the same psi as the
other facets....just a thought.

I would get another plumber to verify the psi since the whole expansion
tank sounds bogus to me.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had a
plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it was
letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised the
question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't blasting; he
says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I just don't see
it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at a
specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just phoned
again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should "turn the
water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so as not to
risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane


The pressure AFTER my regulator is 60 lbs, but I get a big surge when I
first turn on any faucet in the house, and afterward, the pressure seems to
slowly drop. I got the same advice as you, except it came from a guy from
our water authority, who checks these things for free. I figure he had
nothing to gain by making these suggestions. I haven't actually done the
required work yet, so I can't offer anything enlightening in that regard.

The other faucets probably didn't show signs of being overpressured because
the aerators or built in flow limiters were working on those sinks which
apparently they were not in the kitchen sink

The expansion tank may or may not be needed. If you already have a few
water hammer arrestors and the hot pipe volume is not too great, you can get
by without. Think of the bladder (expansion tank) as a very large water
hammer arrestor installed at the supply end of the pipe instead of at the
delivery end. Both of these devices allow the water pressure to be absorbed
in a flexible component instead of stressing the otherwise rigid walls of
the pipe network.

If there is a check valve on the cold supply going into the hot tank (or the
new pressure regulator) such that when the hot water expands the additional
volume has no where to back out, then you will see a short shot of pressure
whan you turn on the tap and then quickly return to normal.








wrote in message
ups.com...
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had a
plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it was
letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised the
question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't blasting; he
says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I just don't see
it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at a
specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just phoned
again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should "turn the
water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so as not to
risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

wrote:
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had
a plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it
was letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised
the question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't
blasting; he says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I
just don't see it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at
a specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just
phoned again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should
"turn the water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so
as not to risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

Yes, you want the expansion tank as well. Most (all?) pressure
regulators also have a check valve that keeps the water from going back so
there is no way of releaving pressure in the system without an expansion
tank, and with a water heater the pressure will increase.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Doug Kanter writes:

The pressure AFTER my regulator is 60 lbs, but I get a big surge when
I first turn on any faucet in the house, and afterward, the pressure
seems to slowly drop.

Sounds like your regulator slowly leaks the full pressure into the house
when nothing is running.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had
a plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it
was letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised
the question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't
blasting; he says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I
just don't see it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at
a specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just
phoned again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should
"turn the water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so
as not to risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

Yes, you want the expansion tank as well. Most (all?) pressure
regulators also have a check valve that keeps the water from going back so
there is no way of releaving pressure in the system without an expansion
tank, and with a water heater the pressure will increase.

My pressure regulator has a backflow bypass so the pressure can never build
beyond street level.
Of course my street level is 90psi. If it were 140 I might be a little more
concerned. 140psi is an accident waiting to happen.

Toller wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had
a plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it
was letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised
the question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't
blasting; he says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I
just don't see it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at
a specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just
phoned again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should
"turn the water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so
as not to risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

Yes, you want the expansion tank as well. Most (all?) pressure
regulators also have a check valve that keeps the water from going back so
there is no way of releaving pressure in the system without an expansion
tank, and with a water heater the pressure will increase.

My pressure regulator has a backflow bypass so the pressure can never build
beyond street level.
Of course my street level is 90psi. If it were 140 I might be a little more
concerned. 140psi is an accident waiting to happen.

Thanks to all who replied.

I stuck a pressure gauge on a hose bib that's downstream of the
regulator. 145 psi. So, apparently, that's too high (who do I ask what
psi is appropriate post-regulator in my area? My DWP's website doesn't
seem to acknowledge the idea of asking a technical question).

If I'm to assume 145 is too high (and everyone here certainly seems to
think so), then why is the fix not simply going to the regulator,
cranking it down a bit to lower the pressure, and then rechecking the
pressure at the bib until it's down around, oh, 90 psi or so?

What am I not taking into consideration?

Shane

wrote:

Toller wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had
a plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it
was letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised
the question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't
blasting; he says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I
just don't see it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at
a specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just
phoned again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should
"turn the water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so
as not to risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

Yes, you want the expansion tank as well. Most (all?) pressure
regulators also have a check valve that keeps the water from going back so
there is no way of releaving pressure in the system without an expansion
tank, and with a water heater the pressure will increase.

My pressure regulator has a backflow bypass so the pressure can never build
beyond street level.
Of course my street level is 90psi. If it were 140 I might be a little more
concerned. 140psi is an accident waiting to happen.

Thanks to all who replied.

I stuck a pressure gauge on a hose bib that's downstream of the
regulator. 145 psi. So, apparently, that's too high (who do I ask what
psi is appropriate post-regulator in my area? My DWP's website doesn't
seem to acknowledge the idea of asking a technical question).

60 PSI is a good number.


If I'm to assume 145 is too high (and everyone here certainly seems to
think so), then why is the fix not simply going to the regulator,
cranking it down a bit to lower the pressure, and then rechecking the
pressure at the bib until it's down around, oh, 90 psi or so?

What am I not taking into consideration?

A broken regulator that needs to be replaced. They generally do not go
out of adjustment unless something is broken or someone has messed with
it.

A replacement regulator likely comes with the backflow preventer
required by most current plumbing codes which means you also need the
expansion tank to account for the expansion of heated water since the
backflow preventer will not allow water to flow back to the street to
relieve overpressure.

With a backflow preventer and no expansion tank you will typically see
frequent discharge from the T&P valve on the water heater as it relieves
the overpressure.

Pete C.


Shane

Pete C. wrote:
wrote:

Toller wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had
a plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it
was letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised
the question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't
blasting; he says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I
just don't see it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at
a specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just
phoned again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should
"turn the water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so
as not to risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

Yes, you want the expansion tank as well. Most (all?) pressure
regulators also have a check valve that keeps the water from going back so
there is no way of releaving pressure in the system without an expansion
tank, and with a water heater the pressure will increase.

My pressure regulator has a backflow bypass so the pressure can never build
beyond street level.
Of course my street level is 90psi. If it were 140 I might be a little more
concerned. 140psi is an accident waiting to happen.

Thanks to all who replied.

I stuck a pressure gauge on a hose bib that's downstream of the
regulator. 145 psi. So, apparently, that's too high (who do I ask what
psi is appropriate post-regulator in my area? My DWP's website doesn't
seem to acknowledge the idea of asking a technical question).

60 PSI is a good number.


If I'm to assume 145 is too high (and everyone here certainly seems to
think so), then why is the fix not simply going to the regulator,
cranking it down a bit to lower the pressure, and then rechecking the
pressure at the bib until it's down around, oh, 90 psi or so?

What am I not taking into consideration?

A broken regulator that needs to be replaced. They generally do not go
out of adjustment unless something is broken or someone has messed with
it.

A replacement regulator likely comes with the backflow preventer
required by most current plumbing codes which means you also need the
expansion tank to account for the expansion of heated water since the
backflow preventer will not allow water to flow back to the street to
relieve overpressure.

With a backflow preventer and no expansion tank you will typically see
frequent discharge from the T&P valve on the water heater as it relieves
the overpressure.

Pete C.

Ah, thank you. Very clear. Is there some reason that it's a bad idea to
simply allow the discharge from the T&P valve to occur? The water
heater is outside the house, not in an area that will be damaged by
water.

wrote:
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had a
plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it was
letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised the
question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't blasting; he
says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I just don't see
it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at a
specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.


An means of expansion is actually required by most water heater warranties.


It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.


The physics is perfectly sound. Think about what happens to water when
you heat it.



So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just phoned
again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should "turn the
water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so as not to
risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
wrote:

Toller wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Okay, here you go:

The water coming out of my kitchen faucet blasts out like a fire hose.
No other faucet in the house seems to have this problem. Today, I had
a plumber over for a different problem, and asked him to render an
opinion on the faucet-pressure problem.

He looked into it (I wasn't home when he did his check; the wife had
him call me), and said the pressure regulator in between the street
service and the house wasn't actually regulating the pressure -- it
was letting in 145 pounds (psi?), which is street pressure. I raised
the question as to why the other faucets in the house weren't
blasting; he says he checked, and yeah, they are all overpressured (I
just don't see it -- or, rather, feel it).

The fix, apparently, is to replace the regulator (which would seem to
make sense), and also to put some kind of "bladder," or smaller tank,
on top of my water heater, so that when water is let into the tank at
a specific pressure, and then heated (raising the pressure), it won't
blow anything out.

It's this last part especially that sounds fishy. I've never heard of
it before, never seen a water heater that has such a device, and the
"physics" doesn't ring true to me.

So, what are the expert opinions on all this here? (My wife just
phoned again, and this guy wrote on his work order that we should
"turn the water off [that's the main water supply to the house]" so
as not to risk damaging anything.)

Oh, and if anyone has any ideas on the blasting faucet, I'd appreciate
hearing those, too.

Shane

Yes, you want the expansion tank as well. Most (all?) pressure
regulators also have a check valve that keeps the water from going back so
there is no way of releaving pressure in the system without an expansion
tank, and with a water heater the pressure will increase.

My pressure regulator has a backflow bypass so the pressure can never build
beyond street level.
Of course my street level is 90psi. If it were 140 I might be a little more
concerned. 140psi is an accident waiting to happen.

Thanks to all who replied.

I stuck a pressure gauge on a hose bib that's downstream of the
regulator. 145 psi. So, apparently, that's too high (who do I ask what
psi is appropriate post-regulator in my area? My DWP's website doesn't
seem to acknowledge the idea of asking a technical question).

60 PSI is a good number.


If I'm to assume 145 is too high (and everyone here certainly seems to
think so), then why is the fix not simply going to the regulator,
cranking it down a bit to lower the pressure, and then rechecking the
pressure at the bib until it's down around, oh, 90 psi or so?

What am I not taking into consideration?

A broken regulator that needs to be replaced. They generally do not go
out of adjustment unless something is broken or someone has messed with
it.

A replacement regulator likely comes with the backflow preventer
required by most current plumbing codes which means you also need the
expansion tank to account for the expansion of heated water since the
backflow preventer will not allow water to flow back to the street to
relieve overpressure.

With a backflow preventer and no expansion tank you will typically see
frequent discharge from the T&P valve on the water heater as it relieves
the overpressure.

Pete C.

Ah, thank you. Very clear. Is there some reason that it's a bad idea to
simply allow the discharge from the T&P valve to occur? The water
heater is outside the house, not in an area that will be damaged by
water.

Mostly it would just be a function of wasting water. First the amount
forced out each time there is a heating / expansion cycle, then the
continuous drip as crud inevitably builds up on the T&P valve seat
causing it to leak. The plumbing will also still be subjected to
abnormally high pressures (the T&P valve trip point).

An expansion tank is not a particularly expensive item either:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio... nsion%20tank

$50-$60 for a small one for exactly this purpose.

Pete C.

wrote in message

A replacement regulator likely comes with the backflow preventer
required by most current plumbing codes which means you also need the
expansion tank to account for the expansion of heated water since the
backflow preventer will not allow water to flow back to the street to
relieve overpressure.

With a backflow preventer and no expansion tank you will typically see
frequent discharge from the T&P valve on the water heater as it relieves
the overpressure.

Pete C.

Ah, thank you. Very clear. Is there some reason that it's a bad idea to
simply allow the discharge from the T&P valve to occur? The water
heater is outside the house, not in an area that will be damaged by
water.


I believe I've read that some regulators can be rebuilt, without the need to do
plumbing. It might be worth looking into.

Bob

"PipeDown" wrote in message
ink.net...
The other faucets probably didn't show signs of being overpressured
because the aerators or built in flow limiters were working on those sinks
which apparently they were not in the kitchen sink

The expansion tank may or may not be needed. If you already have a few
water hammer arrestors and the hot pipe volume is not too great, you can
get by without. Think of the bladder (expansion tank) as a very large
water hammer arrestor installed at the supply end of the pipe instead of
at the delivery end. Both of these devices allow the water pressure to be
absorbed in a flexible component instead of stressing the otherwise rigid
walls of the pipe network.

If there is a check valve on the cold supply going into the hot tank (or
the new pressure regulator) such that when the hot water expands the
additional volume has no where to back out, then you will see a short shot
of pressure whan you turn on the tap and then quickly return to normal.


All correct answers.

New code states that all homes are to have a back flow preventer. So, if the
water comes in at lets say 45 degrees and then heats up to 110 in the HWTank
its going to expand. Your pressure will rise due to this. If the kitchen
sink does not have an aerator it will blow out fast then slow down. Also,
faucets in bathrooms actually help control the amount of GPMs allowed, its
an energy and conservation design into the facet, which kitchens do not
have. Every showerheads flow is restricted by an orifice much like that in
aerators.

Now, with a pressure reducer and back flow preventer you must have an
expansion tank or you can damage both the reducer and backflow valve. IF
your meter has a backflow preventer/check valve in it and you do not have a
pressure expansion tank you will be charged for a new water meter by your
utility! Also, it is now code that you must have a backflow preventer, some
areas are starting to demand proof that they are tested and work by a
licensed back flow tester, some every year others every third year. This has
been the law for commercial/industrial for some time and it is being
implimented for the residential market.

Do what the plumber says and stand there BEFORE he does the work and show
him what is happening. If it still does it afterwords tell him to take it
off and hit the road. He should have gauges that can show you the actual
pressure before and during the water being turned on.