I would like to to topdress my entire lawn with a new layer of topsoil
(half an inch) and overseed it, but I currently have dandelions that
are starting to grow. Quite a few dandelions actually. How do I
proceed to coordinate the need to grow new grass and kill off the
dandelions at the same time?

Do I spray the dandelions, topdress, and overseed right away (in that
order but all within a 48 hour period)? Or do I need to wait X amount
of days/weeks after spraying the dandelions before attempting to
overseed (which will bring me to a new problem - by early June my large
silver maple starts dropping its "helicopter" style seeds everywhere on
the lawn sprouting new trees. On a regular "old" lawn this usually
causes 15 saplings to grow (which I kill right away). I can't imagine
how many trees will sprout on a lawn that has 1/2" of fresh topsoil
everywhere. So that's why I'm hoping to have my new lawn growing by
then.

According to the directions for my grass seeds, I'm not supposed to
spray for weeds on a brand new lawn until "at least 3 mowings". But I
won't be spraying the entire lawn. Just spot treating the dandelions.
And this will be on top of 1/2" of topsoil. Will that 1/2" of topsoil
provide enough "buffer" to not harm the grass sprouts from the chemical
spray on the dandelions?

Or do I forget about the dandelions, focus on the topdressing and
overseeding, and only tackle the dandelion issue once they start
blooming? (which will probably start in 3 weeks from now).

Hence my dilemma. If I kill the dandelions now but have to wait 3-4
weeks before overseeding, then the silver maple will get me and I'll
have a forest growing in my back yard. If I kill the dandelions right
now but in the process it prevents the seeds from germinating, then
I'll have a dirt pile on my lawn. If I forget about the dandelions for
now and decide to tackle them when they bloom 3 weeks from now, it'll
create two separate issues. I can't spray them because it'll kill the
new grass. And if I remove them manually, it'll leave my lawn full of
holes and bumpy which is the reason why I'm topdressing in the first
place (to even out the bumps).

wrote:
I would like to to topdress my entire lawn with a new layer of topsoil
(half an inch) and overseed it, but I currently have dandelions that
are starting to grow. Quite a few dandelions actually. How do I
proceed to coordinate the need to grow new grass and kill off the
dandelions at the same time?

Why are you top dressing? How large is the lawn? Fairly healthy?
Compacted badly?

If I was putting major effort into an established lawn, it would be to
de-thatch, weed and fertilize. The dandelions should be attacked early,
and a broadleaf herbicide applied when they are young works best. Don't
always need to apply to entire lawn - can hit concentrations with a
hoseend sprayer or hand sprayer - depends on type and number. For
stubborn ones, painting on RoundUp with a brush is feasible if not to
numerous. Keeping the buggers from seeding, even to the point of
hand-picking, will help unless you are surrounded by dandy fields. If
the lawn is lumpy and uneven, top dressing might be done gradually
without hurting the growing lawn. You can't, as you said, apply
herbicide to new grass seedlings. Best weed "treatment" is prevention,
although seeds sometimes take 2-3 years to germinate, and always will be
carried in by birds and the breeze. Proper watering, cutting and
fertilizing will grow good grass that helps crowd out the weeds.

wrote:
I would like to to topdress my entire lawn with a new layer of topsoil
(half an inch) and overseed it, but I currently have dandelions that
are starting to grow. Quite a few dandelions actually. How do I
proceed to coordinate the need to grow new grass and kill off the
dandelions at the same time?

Do I spray the dandelions, topdress, and overseed right away (in that
order but all within a 48 hour period)? Or do I need to wait X amount
of days/weeks after spraying the dandelions before attempting to
overseed (which will bring me to a new problem - by early June my large
silver maple starts dropping its "helicopter" style seeds everywhere on
the lawn sprouting new trees. On a regular "old" lawn this usually
causes 15 saplings to grow (which I kill right away). I can't imagine
how many trees will sprout on a lawn that has 1/2" of fresh topsoil
everywhere. So that's why I'm hoping to have my new lawn growing by
then.

According to the directions for my grass seeds, I'm not supposed to
spray for weeds on a brand new lawn until "at least 3 mowings". But I
won't be spraying the entire lawn. Just spot treating the dandelions.
And this will be on top of 1/2" of topsoil. Will that 1/2" of topsoil
provide enough "buffer" to not harm the grass sprouts from the chemical
spray on the dandelions?

Or do I forget about the dandelions, focus on the topdressing and
overseeding, and only tackle the dandelion issue once they start
blooming? (which will probably start in 3 weeks from now).

Hence my dilemma. If I kill the dandelions now but have to wait 3-4
weeks before overseeding, then the silver maple will get me and I'll
have a forest growing in my back yard. If I kill the dandelions right
now but in the process it prevents the seeds from germinating, then
I'll have a dirt pile on my lawn. If I forget about the dandelions for
now and decide to tackle them when they bloom 3 weeks from now, it'll
create two separate issues. I can't spray them because it'll kill the
new grass. And if I remove them manually, it'll leave my lawn full of
holes and bumpy which is the reason why I'm topdressing in the first
place (to even out the bumps).

I'd hit the dandelions first, then wait with the redoing the soil and
grass until towards the fall. Spend the summer massacring the
dandelions, they're the big problem.

I got rid of dandilieons a couple of years ago by physically removing
them completely. It's not hard to do on wet soil. Just stick a
regular flathead screwdriver inot the soil around it and loosen up the
soil until you can pull it out, root and all. Just take a day and do
the entire lawn. Then for the next 2-3 weeks go out every day and
remove any new ones that appear. After that you should be OK. I did
that 2 years ago, and I hardly ever see one, and when I do I pull it
out immedialtely. And yes I live in a townhouse and my immediate next
door neighbors have tons of them in their lawns.

z wrote:


I'd hit the dandelions first, then wait with the redoing the soil and
grass until towards the fall. Spend the summer massacring the
dandelions, they're the big problem.


I agree. He's a month behind the optimum time for spring seeding. Now
you have too much competition from weeds and the need to apply a whole
lot of water to get it germinated and then with minimal roots, to keep
it from dying out over the summer. For those reasons, it's not
advisable to seed now.

I'd spot treat the weeds, do core aeration, fertilize. If you haven't
put down pre-emergent crabgrass control, do it immediately with a combo
fertilizer/pre-emergent. Also test the PH and adjust if necessary.

Then work on the topdressing (if you really need it) and overseeding in
early Sept, which is the best time by far.

There are a few reasons why I'm topdressing the lawn. Its quite bumpy
overall and uneven at places. There are certain areas where the grass
is pretty much dead (thanks to grubs - which I will tackle this year as
well). The current soil itself has a lot of clay, so it doesn't absorb
water well, and in the areas exposed to Summer sun all day long, it
tends to get rock hard and crack. I'm hoping the extra layer of
topsoil will help make it "softer" and give a better chance for grass
to grow. Finally, at certain areas (mostly near my house or a few feet
away from the hedges) I'm changing the grade, so for those areas I'm
going beyond simply topdressing and adding up to 8" of new soil (and
seeding completely as though it was a new lawn).

Last year I aerated the entire lawn, and the thatch isn't too
compacted. This year my main goal is to get a more even lawn (less
bumpy and better grade), and to get grass growing in areas where it
usually has trouble. I also want to get rid of the dandelions once and
for all (well, the majority anyways). It usually takes me 3 sessions
(weeknights or weekend afternoons) to remove all the dandelions once
they have grown (50' by 45' backyard). And they come back every year,
so that's why this year I'm going with the chemical route.

In article .com,
says...


z wrote:


I'd hit the dandelions first, then wait with the redoing the soil and
grass until towards the fall. Spend the summer massacring the
dandelions, they're the big problem.


I agree. He's a month behind the optimum time for spring seeding. Now
you have too much competition from weeds and the need to apply a whole
lot of water to get it germinated and then with minimal roots, to keep
it from dying out over the summer. For those reasons, it's not
advisable to seed now.

I'd spot treat the weeds, do core aeration, fertilize. If you haven't
put down pre-emergent crabgrass control, do it immediately with a combo
fertilizer/pre-emergent. Also test the PH and adjust if necessary.

Then work on the topdressing (if you really need it) and overseeding in
early Sept, which is the best time by far.


Did he say where he was?

I'm doing a similar thing with a similar question - in my case I'm fixing up a
portion of the lawn after a major foundation repair. In upstate New York I may
be a little late; thanks to this discussion though, since I've already
overspread, I will just pull some already sprouting dandelions and then seed and
overspread it with straw. We don't have a summer dry season until very late if
that, and it's in a convenient place to water. (I also live in an exurban
location where none of us have perfectly manicured lawns anyway.)

Any suggestions on that?

At any rate, since I've already bought the topsoil and spread it, I'm committed
to it..

Banty


--

wrote:
I would like to to topdress my entire lawn with a new layer of topsoil
(half an inch) and overseed it, but I currently have dandelions that
are starting to grow. Quite a few dandelions actually. How do I
proceed to coordinate the need to grow new grass and kill off the
dandelions at the same time? ..

I am not a fan of topdressing. I have seen it done, but I have never
seen where it did any good.

I would work on the dandelions and other broad leaf weeds first. I am
assuming that there are too many to handle with spot spray. If possible I
recommend spot spray rather than dumping all that poison all over the lawn.

If you insist on topdressing, I would give the broad leaf week killer
about five days to do it's job. Note: no matter what you do you will get
more coming up, your neighbors have them and the seeds will end up in your
lawn. Keep a bottle of the same weed killer to spot spray them and other
broad leaf weeds. Doing that every week or two for just a couple of minutes
will take care of them.

It is now spring in most areas so you want a good well balanced
fertilizer. You really should test your soil. Your local county extension
office will tell you how and it will cost less that wasting money on the
wrong products.

Don't wait too long, you have already missed the best time to plant new
seed.

Don't cut your grass too short, most people do. Blue grass likes to be
about three or more inches tall in hot weather. Allowing it to grow that
high will not only make for a healthy grass but it will discourage most
weeds.

Local conditions vary so much that it is best to consult with your local
county extension office. Don't ask at the place that sells product, after
all they want to sell product.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

the fertilizer in the typical product is too strong and will kill
seedlings.

this project is best spread over the next couple months...

Banty wrote:
In article .com,
says...


z wrote:


I'd hit the dandelions first, then wait with the redoing the soil and
grass until towards the fall. Spend the summer massacring the
dandelions, they're the big problem.


I agree. He's a month behind the optimum time for spring seeding. Now
you have too much competition from weeds and the need to apply a whole
lot of water to get it germinated and then with minimal roots, to keep
it from dying out over the summer. For those reasons, it's not
advisable to seed now.

I'd spot treat the weeds, do core aeration, fertilize. If you haven't
put down pre-emergent crabgrass control, do it immediately with a combo
fertilizer/pre-emergent. Also test the PH and adjust if necessary.

Then work on the topdressing (if you really need it) and overseeding in
early Sept, which is the best time by far.


Did he say where he was?

I'm doing a similar thing with a similar question - in my case I'm fixing up a
portion of the lawn after a major foundation repair. In upstate New York I may
be a little late; thanks to this discussion though, since I've already
overspread, I will just pull some already sprouting dandelions and then seed and
overspread it with straw. We don't have a summer dry season until very late if
that, and it's in a convenient place to water. (I also live in an exurban
location where none of us have perfectly manicured lawns anyway.)

Any suggestions on that?

At any rate, since I've already bought the topsoil and spread it, I'm committed
to it..

Yeah, like you said you're already embarked so now is no time to stop.
Keep in mind the possibility of giving it another seeding in the fall,
though, if it hasn't grown into a nice dense lawn by then, in the NE
grass seems to like being seeded in the fall somewhat better than in
the spring. The main deterrent to dandelion sprouting in the spring is
a lawn dense enough to prevent the weeds from sprouting. Once you've
got that, you only have to pull up one or two per day afterwards for
the rest of your life.