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#1
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How does an electric meter work?
I did not check this out on snopes but have heard that the eletric
meters on our houses always read the higher of the two lines coming in to determine the amount of juice used. The rumor goes on that you should *balance* your panel so that the same number of constant users are on either side of your panel. An example might be that your fridge should be on one side and your furnace on the other, or electric range on one side and electric dryer on the other. Is there any truth to this or is it one of those tall tales based on some obscure Tesla theory? Would this gadget really save me money on my electric bill? http://www.renaissance-pacific.net/E...oduct_Info.pdf |
#2
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How does an electric meter work?
the only thing this does is bring more money to the merchant.
Yes both sides of the power line should be balanced, but BOTH items must be on at the same time. So the neutral doesnt carry current. SAVE YOUR MONEY! |
#3
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How does an electric meter work?
Wow.
I actually read that whole PDF just now. It's kind of interesting. Other than not explaining in technical terms, looking silly, and having a lame brochure, it actually doesn't make any wild claims like I would have expected. It makes a claim of 3-5% reduction. It specifically says it doesn't work for digital meters, and it is not a magnet, and it won't cause inductive heating problems. It mentions a handfull of other caveats too even. Since when does a scam make such modest claims and have so many caveats? What is the world coming to? Will I start getting "Enlarge your ***** by 3%!", or "Lose 1 to 3 lbs and keep it off as long as you keep exercising and maintaining a healthy diet!" emails? So can anyone answer the op's original question? Does a mechanical meter overestimate when the load is imbalanced? And if so, can anyone think of a plausible scenario, in any possible situation, real or imaginary, that would let the device in the PDF picture (I can't tell what it is -- just some kind of metal C-shaped thing I guess) do anything that could even have a remotely possible chance of having even a miniscule, undetectable, insignificant but still non-zero effect on the meter? I.e., is this just a not-very-useful and very poorly marketed invention, or a not very useful and poorly hyped scam? -Kevin |
#4
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How does an electric meter work?
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#5
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How does an electric meter work?
Thanks for answering (partially) my question. This thread is
interesting -- it seems to be filled with more BS and hype than the original link even was. I don't entirely understand your answer, though. I wasn't aware that there was a "neutral on the utility's side of the meter". And if there were, and I had a perfectly balanced load, then the neutral would have no current, right? Which means... no losses, and hence no cost? Obviously wrong... can you explain a little more? And moreover, there was a lot of BS in this thread about balancing the panel to begin with. To say that 240V devices are on both legs is irrelevant to the question of whether balancing a panel makes economic sense for the homeowner. Does a homeowner with a horribly imbalanced panel get charged more than the same homeowner if they just rearranged the breakers on the panel? -Kevin |
#6
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How does an electric meter work?
kevin wrote:
Thanks for answering (partially) my question. This thread is interesting -- it seems to be filled with more BS and hype than the original link even was. I agree with almost everything said in this thread. I don't entirely understand your answer, though. I wasn't aware that there was a "neutral on the utility's side of the meter". And if there were, and I had a perfectly balanced load, then the neutral would have no current, right? Which means... no losses, and hence no cost? Obviously wrong... can you explain a little more? There is a neutral from the power transformer to the service panel (then beyond). A balanced load would result in zero service neutral current. An unbalance would result in neutral current, a small voltge drop and negligible power loss (small volt drop times current). If this were a big deal, all wire sizes including to circuits inside your house would be increased in size for lower voltage drop/lower losses. And moreover, there was a lot of BS in this thread about balancing the panel to begin with. To say that 240V devices are on both legs is irrelevant to the question of whether balancing a panel makes economic sense for the homeowner. Does a homeowner with a horribly imbalanced panel get charged more than the same homeowner if they just rearranged the breakers on the panel? -Kevin Far as I know meters accurately measure power used, balanced or not. The gizmo is a scam. (And if a steel (EMT) service entrance pipe is used the pipe shields the gizmo from the magnetic field.) Another scam, as others have said, is power factor correction - unless power factor is measured on residential meters, which I have never heard of. Even if PF is measured on residential some of these units are scams. bud-- |
#7
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How does an electric meter work?
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#8
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How does an electric meter work?
Dan Lanciani wrote:
In article .com, (kevin) writes: | So can anyone answer the op's original question? Does a mechanical | meter overestimate when the load is imbalanced? Yes, in the sense that the typical 4-terminal (1.5 element) meter most often used in residential split-phase service charges the customer for 150% of the losses in the neutral on the utility's side of the meter. (That's the simple case of one service drop from transformer to customer. For multiple connections the analysis gets more complicated.) This seems to surprise many people. Google for Blondel's theorem before trying to come up with an argument that the meter does not make this error. I believe you, and If I understood you, when speaking of mechanical meters the 1.5 element meter you describe has one voltage field across the 240 volt line and two current fields, one in series with each "hot" conductor. I think I see what you're referring to. Reducing it to absurdity, if you only load one side of the line, all the return current flows through the neutral, but the voltage field still "sees" the full 240 volts at the meter terminals even though the power you are using isn't the product of the current drawn time half of the 240 that voltage, it's the current times half of that voltage MINUS the voltage drop in the neutral. So, you get charged for the power equal to that current times the "full" voltage, when you are actually using power equal to that current times a slightly reduced voltage. Izzat it? Jeff N.B. This has nothing to do with the meter's being mechanical. You can build a 5-terminal (2 element) mechanical meter that does not have the error. I'm guessing that kind of meter must have TWO voltage fields? You can build a 4-terminal (1.5 element) electronic meter that does have the error. | And if so, can anyone | think of a plausible scenario, in any possible situation, real or | imaginary, that would let the device in the PDF picture (I can't tell | what it is -- just some kind of metal C-shaped thing I guess) do | anything that could even have a remotely possible chance of having even | a miniscule, undetectable, insignificant but still non-zero effect on | the meter? Maybe it's the AC equivalent of the "cow magnet" to be placed on the fuel ine of your car. :-) Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented." |
#10
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How does an electric meter work?
On 24 Apr 2006 06:59:12 -0700, "RayV" wrote:
I did not check this out on snopes Try doing so. That claim doesn't make sense. but have heard that the eletric meters on our houses always read the higher of the two lines coming in to determine the amount of juice used. The rumor goes on that you should *balance* your panel so that the same number of constant users are on either side of your panel. An example might be that your fridge should be on one side and your furnace on the other, or electric range on one side and electric dryer on the other. 240V appliances are always on both sides. They have 2 hot wires, 1 connected to each side. Is there any truth to this or is it one of those tall tales based on some obscure Tesla theory? Would this gadget really save me money on my electric bill? http://www.renaissance-pacific.net/E...oduct_Info.pdf Sounds like BS. |
#11
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How does an electric meter work?
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:51:21 -0500, unknown
wrote: On 24 Apr 2006 06:59:12 -0700, "RayV" wrote: I did not check this out on snopes Try doing so. That claim doesn't make sense. but have heard that the eletric meters on our houses always read the higher of the two lines coming in to determine the amount of juice used. The rumor goes on that you should *balance* your panel so that the same number of constant users are on either side of your panel. An example might be that your fridge should be on one side and your furnace on the other, or electric range on one side and electric dryer on the other. 240V appliances are always on both sides. They have 2 hot wires, 1 connected to each side. Is there any truth to this or is it one of those tall tales based on some obscure Tesla theory? Would this gadget really save me money on my electric bill? http://www.renaissance-pacific.net/E...oduct_Info.pdf Sounds like BS. Not only that, there is no explanation as to how this thing works that conforms to the known laws of physics. Any little piece of material that you wrap around your service entrance conductors is going to have little if any effect on "equalizing" the load between the hot wires. It is the current flowing that creates the magnetic field. Beachcomber |
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