The heat keeps going off.

I've had the local oil company people come in many times, and they've
replaced the oil pump and filter and other parts. I've had several
different techies from the company come in, and I've watched and talked
with them as they worked, and they all seem professional.

But the heat keeps going off, and I have to keep restarting it.

After one visit there was a reccomendation to get a new tank. The
owner of the company says that sludge is collecting and this is the
problem.

But last week a technician came it to start the heat (since it had
locked up) and could not see anything wrong. He was there for quite
awhile trying to come up with ideas about my problems.

And then the heat stopped again the next day.

So my question is: If there was sludge in the tank (1) wouldn't it
show up in the filter; and (2) wouldn't it take a while to cause
problems again after servicing.

Right now the heat goes off about once a day, and we hit the button
(just once) to get it going again. Takes 5-10 seconds to fire up.

Since a new tank is going to be about $2000, I'm obviously looking for
any other possible solutions.

Also:
The tank is inside the basement.
I had flooding in the basement in the fall, but I also had recurring
burner problems last winter, no problems the previous 10-12 years.
I have a tank-less hot water system in the furnace.
I've also noticed that one of the heating zones is not working (I have
two zones with hot water pipes -- one of these is not working, one zone
with old radiators). The technician said this must be a short in the
thermostat.

Jim

wrote:
The heat keeps going off.

I've had the local oil company people come in many times, and they've
replaced the oil pump and filter and other parts. I've had several
different techies from the company come in, and I've watched and talked
with them as they worked, and they all seem professional.

But the heat keeps going off, and I have to keep restarting it.

After one visit there was a reccomendation to get a new tank. The
owner of the company says that sludge is collecting and this is the
problem.

But last week a technician came it to start the heat (since it had
locked up) and could not see anything wrong. He was there for quite
awhile trying to come up with ideas about my problems.

And then the heat stopped again the next day.

So my question is: If there was sludge in the tank (1) wouldn't it
show up in the filter; and (2) wouldn't it take a while to cause
problems again after servicing.

Right now the heat goes off about once a day, and we hit the button
(just once) to get it going again. Takes 5-10 seconds to fire up.

Since a new tank is going to be about $2000, I'm obviously looking for
any other possible solutions.

Also:
The tank is inside the basement.
I had flooding in the basement in the fall, but I also had recurring
burner problems last winter, no problems the previous 10-12 years.
I have a tank-less hot water system in the furnace.
I've also noticed that one of the heating zones is not working (I have
two zones with hot water pipes -- one of these is not working, one zone
with old radiators). The technician said this must be a short in the
thermostat.

Jim



Sounds to me like you need a more competent service company. Oil burning
heating systems aren't eggsackly rocket science these days, they've been
around for nearly a hunnert years now.

Get someone in who knows what they're doing and how to check and test
things to determine if they're ok or not, rather than give you guesses.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

wrote

Right now the heat goes off about once a day, and we hit the button
(just once) to get it going again. Takes 5-10 seconds to fire up.

5 to 10 seconds? Does it have a delayed oil valve? If not, that is too long.
It should start up immediately. Nice and smooth. Does it rumble (and
possibly smoke a little) when you hit the reset? If it does, it could be a
weak transformer. Sure it fires up every time, but that one time during the
night when it decides it won't put out enough spark: "POP" goes the reset!
If it does NOT have an oil delay valve, it sounds like they need to put a
pump guage on it and test the pressures. It's "sucking air" from somwhere.
Should be a good steady pressure (at whatever pressure the burner calls for)
and then drop 20 lbs at shutdown and HOLD that pressure. If it isn't, then
they need to find out where it's sucking air from. Could be one of the flare
or (yikes!) compression fittings. If it has an oil filter in-line, it could
be one of several gaslkets on IT that aren't seated properly.


Since a new tank is going to be about $2000, I'm obviously looking for
any other possible solutions.

Yikes! and I thought WE were expensive at $900.

I've also noticed that one of the heating zones is not working (I have
two zones with hot water pipes -- one of these is not working, one zone
with old radiators). The technician said this must be a short in the
thermostat.

Short in the thermostat? If there was a short, then it would run all the
time. Remember: The thermostat is a switch. It's either on or off. Could be
a loose/broken wire, heat anticipator is burnt up, circulator (or zone
valve) is bad. Real easy to check the thermostat: Set it to "call" for heat
and ohm out the (disconnected) wires at whatever it is that it's supposed to
turn on (relay, zone valve, etc.).

Another thing it could be is that the loop is "air locked" and needs to be
bled. Not sure of your set up, but if the ciculator is running and the zone
valve is opening, it's not going to circulate if you have air in the loop.

Something sounds a little fishy about the techs you've gotten.
See if you can't get a recommendation from a neighbor?
A name doesn't make a competent furnace repairman: e.g. Agway
is big around here, but don't let them touch your furnace.
Anybody can get a job there.

....
After one visit there was a reccomendation to get a new tank.
The
owner of the company says that sludge is collecting and this is
the
problem.

Sludge collecting does NOT mean you need a new tank!


But last week a technician came it to start the heat (since it
had
locked up) and could not see anything wrong. He was there for
quite
awhile trying to come up with ideas about my problems.
...

And then the heat stopped again the next day.

So my question is: If there was sludge in the tank (1)
wouldn't it
show up in the filter;

Yes, it certainly would show up in the filter. And in the
nozzle. Sludge in a tank is common and unless you let the tank
get real low, usually isn't a problem.
Sometimes sludge will cause a problem right after a fillup; it
gets stirred up and riled up and you'll find it in the filter.
But if the filter does its job it doesn't get to the nozzles or
the pumps.

and (2) wouldn't it take a while to cause
problems again after servicing.

No, not necessarily. But maybe g. Or NOT! In other words, it
depends on too many things to say one way or the other.


Right now the heat goes off about once a day, and we hit the
button
(just once) to get it going again. Takes 5-10 seconds to fire
up.

Someone said that was too long, but in reality it is not. We
have three oil units: 2 furnaces and a water heater; they all
take 5 to 10 seconds to ignite.


Since a new tank is going to be about $2000, I'm obviously
looking for
any other possible solutions.

Understandably. If there IS too much sludge in the tank, they
can be cleaned out; not necessary to replace a perfectly good
tank because of sludge. It sounds, however, like the filters are
staying clean. How many nozzles have they changed? If only one
or two, then forget this path.
Check the nameplates on the burner and look for the nozzle
orfice specs: Angle and gallons/min (gpm). Those are important
and normally MUST use the right nozzle to ignite properly and
reliably. If no one has checked, it could be as simple as the
wrong nozzle; especially if all they do is look at the old nozzle
to see what ot use for the replacement: It has to be the right
nozzle.

Go down and watch the furnace fire up and turn off a couple times
while someone operates the thermostat for you. Observe whatever
happens and report back with that info. There's a little door
you can open to see the fire inside after it lights; the flames
should be bright, constant, and quite yellow in color. No smoke,
no puffing, etc..


Also:
The tank is inside the basement.

I had flooding in the basement in the fall, but I also had
recurring
burner problems last winter, no problems the previous 10-12
years.
I have a tank-less hot water system in the furnace.
I've also noticed that one of the heating zones is not working
(I have
two zones with hot water pipes -- one of these is not working,
one zone
with old radiators). The technician said this must be a short
in the
thermostat.

Jim

No idea what to say about those things; not enough details. YOu
need to gather together as many details as you can for folks to
make eudcated guesses about the problem/s you have. Personally,
I don't think you've had a good tech come out there yet -
quitting that often, it shouldn't be that hard to pin down.

If it's excessively cold in the basement, say below freezing, or
drafty, you might try switching to #1 fuel oil next time you get
down to about half a tank and see if htat helps. I'm assuming
you're burning #2 fuel oil; #1 is lighter and cleaner. It if
helps, try another tank. If it keeps working, after a tank or
two, go back to #2 and see if the problems return.

You could also have air in the oil lines, lots of other things,
but without knowing what the feeds are, oil line returns, if any,
etc., it's real hard to guess much further.

HTH,

Pop

Thanks to all who responded. I did look at the flame and it is indeed
bright yellow.
The cellar doesn't get much colder than 60.

Here's notes that have been left on the furnace:
10/05 new pump (I think)
11/9/05 - DC going on safety
New 50200 + EyE Kit
EyE reading now 596
New N and adj Electrods
12/19/05
N,pump, eye 590 , Ignitor OK
1/26/06
D.C N.F.S Adj Electrodes + Air
Eye = 520
2/8/06
Check pump Took running pump ps
Check electrode ignitor.
Found nothing wrong. Fired unit off about 10 times.

Somewhat amusing sidebar -- this summer a tech from a different company
went down to my system by mistake and did a bit of maintenance -- he
had the wrong address, and I called his company when I saw he had been
here. Don't think he did any damage, but
I'll review the card he left.



Pop wrote:
Something sounds a little fishy about the techs you've gotten.
See if you can't get a recommendation from a neighbor?
A name doesn't make a competent furnace repairman: e.g. Agway
is big around here, but don't let them touch your furnace.
Anybody can get a job there.

...
After one visit there was a reccomendation to get a new tank.
The
owner of the company says that sludge is collecting and this is
the
problem.

Sludge collecting does NOT mean you need a new tank!


But last week a technician came it to start the heat (since it
had
locked up) and could not see anything wrong. He was there for
quite
awhile trying to come up with ideas about my problems.
...

And then the heat stopped again the next day.

So my question is: If there was sludge in the tank (1)
wouldn't it
show up in the filter;

Yes, it certainly would show up in the filter. And in the
nozzle. Sludge in a tank is common and unless you let the tank
get real low, usually isn't a problem.
Sometimes sludge will cause a problem right after a fillup; it
gets stirred up and riled up and you'll find it in the filter.
But if the filter does its job it doesn't get to the nozzles or
the pumps.

and (2) wouldn't it take a while to cause
problems again after servicing.

No, not necessarily. But maybe g. Or NOT! In other words, it
depends on too many things to say one way or the other.


Right now the heat goes off about once a day, and we hit the
button
(just once) to get it going again. Takes 5-10 seconds to fire
up.

Someone said that was too long, but in reality it is not. We
have three oil units: 2 furnaces and a water heater; they all
take 5 to 10 seconds to ignite.


Since a new tank is going to be about $2000, I'm obviously
looking for
any other possible solutions.

Understandably. If there IS too much sludge in the tank, they
can be cleaned out; not necessary to replace a perfectly good
tank because of sludge. It sounds, however, like the filters are
staying clean. How many nozzles have they changed? If only one
or two, then forget this path.
Check the nameplates on the burner and look for the nozzle
orfice specs: Angle and gallons/min (gpm). Those are important
and normally MUST use the right nozzle to ignite properly and
reliably. If no one has checked, it could be as simple as the
wrong nozzle; especially if all they do is look at the old nozzle
to see what ot use for the replacement: It has to be the right
nozzle.

Go down and watch the furnace fire up and turn off a couple times
while someone operates the thermostat for you. Observe whatever
happens and report back with that info. There's a little door
you can open to see the fire inside after it lights; the flames
should be bright, constant, and quite yellow in color. No smoke,
no puffing, etc..


Also:
The tank is inside the basement.

I had flooding in the basement in the fall, but I also had
recurring
burner problems last winter, no problems the previous 10-12
years.
I have a tank-less hot water system in the furnace.
I've also noticed that one of the heating zones is not working
(I have
two zones with hot water pipes -- one of these is not working,
one zone
with old radiators). The technician said this must be a short
in the
thermostat.

Jim

No idea what to say about those things; not enough details. YOu
need to gather together as many details as you can for folks to
make eudcated guesses about the problem/s you have. Personally,
I don't think you've had a good tech come out there yet -
quitting that often, it shouldn't be that hard to pin down.

If it's excessively cold in the basement, say below freezing, or
drafty, you might try switching to #1 fuel oil next time you get
down to about half a tank and see if htat helps. I'm assuming
you're burning #2 fuel oil; #1 is lighter and cleaner. It if
helps, try another tank. If it keeps working, after a tank or
two, go back to #2 and see if the problems return.

You could also have air in the oil lines, lots of other things,
but without knowing what the feeds are, oil line returns, if any,
etc., it's real hard to guess much further.

HTH,

Pop