I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.

I figured rather than buy every single ligher adapter for every cell
phone/laptop/digital camera, the power inverter would do the trick.

My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

Assuming i remove the lighter adapter if while i drive throught the
mountains of West Virigina (once a year), what are the pro's and con's of
such a solution.

(NOTE: I do see the irony of plugging a transformer into an inverter, but it
seems like a workable solution).


Thanks in Advance,

Robert Fenster

"Robert Fenster" wrote in message

My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.


The number or cylinders has nothing to do with it. The capacity of the
alternator has everything to do with it.


Assuming i remove the lighter adapter if while i drive throught the
mountains of West Virigina (once a year), what are the pro's and con's of
such a solution.

No need to take it out when you are otherwise putting out plenty of current
in the alternator. It is when the engine it turned off th at you'd have a
potential problem of discharging the battery.

"Robert Fenster" wrote in message
news:rC9wf.4036$Dh.2062@dukeread04...
I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.

I figured rather than buy every single ligher adapter for every cell
phone/laptop/digital camera, the power inverter would do the trick.

My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

Assuming i remove the lighter adapter if while i drive throught the
mountains of West Virigina (once a year), what are the pro's and con's of
such a solution.

(NOTE: I do see the irony of plugging a transformer into an inverter, but
it
seems like a workable solution).


Thanks in Advance,

Robert Fenster



A word of caution with cheap inverters, they deliver a square wave that has
the same RMS as a 120V outlet, but not always the same peak. They are fine
for heating but may give problem with rectifiers like battery chargers.

I would measure and compare the charging current to make sure is roughly
the same with inverter or 120V house current. Need to measure the current
because the voltage is determined by the battery and is fairly independent
of the current.

As far as the 4 cylinders, I would not worry. A 150W inverter is more than
adequate for charging and it will only take what it needs from the battery.

A phone charger may use 2W and the inverter efficiency at such low load may
be only 10% so you may have a 20W drain on the battery, that is less than
one head light. You can measure the No Load current to the inverter and
expect that to be a baseline, small loads will add little to it a full 150W
may add 15Amps at 12V.
Running the inverter at full load is probably more taxing for the inverter
for the battery and the engine, even uphill.
The figures above are only ball park not knowing the specifics.

If you can find a 20W sine wave inverter than all concerns disappear.

Mauro

there are universal chargers that take 12 volts in and output whatever
you need, with adapters to fit the specific use.

the feds should set a standard for a couple formats and clear the
clutter and waste of a gazillion different adapters

Most alternators output in a high range , your car type has little to do
with it. Yes many especialy trucks have bigger alternators. It really
depends on what you power , how much power you pull and make, because
you can dramatcly shorten the alternators life from the load . Its total
load you must figure, your alternator is running hard when AC and lights
are on, added high load is not usualy in its design and can over tax the
alternator. Learn about amp draw of everything used now on the car and
extra needed, and alternator output and be conservative. Run anything at
its limit and life expectancy is dramaticly shortened. Even charging
dead batteries is not recommended for most vehicles, battery chargers
are. Even high power stereos will kill an alternator.

Get a cigarette lighter multi-plug adapter. Every auto parts store sells
them. Then you can keep several plugged in at the same time. Just make sure
your vehicle's cigarette lighter is wired through your ignition switch, so
you don't drain the battery when the engine isn't running.



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"MG" wrote in message
k.net...

"Robert Fenster" wrote in message
news:rC9wf.4036$Dh.2062@dukeread04...
I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.

I figured rather than buy every single ligher adapter for every cell
phone/laptop/digital camera, the power inverter would do the trick.

My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

Assuming i remove the lighter adapter if while i drive throught the
mountains of West Virigina (once a year), what are the pro's and con's
of
such a solution.

(NOTE: I do see the irony of plugging a transformer into an inverter,
but
it
seems like a workable solution).


Thanks in Advance,

Robert Fenster



A word of caution with cheap inverters, they deliver a square wave that
has
the same RMS as a 120V outlet, but not always the same peak. They are
fine
for heating but may give problem with rectifiers like battery chargers.

I would measure and compare the charging current to make sure is roughly
the same with inverter or 120V house current. Need to measure the current
because the voltage is determined by the battery and is fairly independent
of the current.

As far as the 4 cylinders, I would not worry. A 150W inverter is more
than
adequate for charging and it will only take what it needs from the
battery.

A phone charger may use 2W and the inverter efficiency at such low load
may
be only 10% so you may have a 20W drain on the battery, that is less than
one head light. You can measure the No Load current to the inverter and
expect that to be a baseline, small loads will add little to it a full
150W
may add 15Amps at 12V.
Running the inverter at full load is probably more taxing for the inverter
for the battery and the engine, even uphill.
The figures above are only ball park not knowing the specifics.

If you can find a 20W sine wave inverter than all concerns disappear.

Mauro

Robert Fenster wrote:
I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.

I figured rather than buy every single ligher adapter for every cell
phone/laptop/digital camera, the power inverter would do the trick.

My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

Assuming i remove the lighter adapter if while i drive throught the
mountains of West Virigina (once a year), what are the pro's and con's of
such a solution.

(NOTE: I do see the irony of plugging a transformer into an inverter, but it
seems like a workable solution).


Thanks in Advance,

Robert Fenster



With a 150 watt inverter the size of your engine is not a problem. The
real issue with a larger inverter would be the size of your alternator.
Make sure that the inverter is always disconnected prior to shutting
off the engine so that it never runs on the battery alone. Standard
automotive batteries are not intended to be discharged very deeply so
only run the inverter when the engine is running.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

On 8-Jan-2006, "Robert Fenster" wrote:

I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.
[...]
My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

150W is 0.2hp. Still worried?

Mike

m Ransley wrote:
Even high
power stereos will kill an alternator.

Yes, some can put out 5,000 watts or more (I hear them every time I pull up
to a red light)!

A charger for a cell phone might draw ten watts, an insignificant amount -
way less than an ordinary car radio.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:05:45 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

On 8-Jan-2006, "Robert Fenster" wrote:

I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.
[...]
My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

150W is 0.2hp. Still worried?


and how much power is that inverter (with 150W out) taking from the
car's electrical system?

Mike
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

150w is enough to load and cause a system not to charge the battery. If
I have AC on, all lights and radio and 2 sets of auxilary lights-220w
often the next day my very good battery has lost its "green Eye" My
alternator wont keep up with demand.

Robert Fenster wrote:
I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.

I figured rather than buy every single ligher adapter for every cell
phone/laptop/digital camera, the power inverter would do the trick.

My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

Assuming i remove the lighter adapter if while i drive throught the
mountains of West Virigina (once a year), what are the pro's and con's of
such a solution.

(NOTE: I do see the irony of plugging a transformer into an inverter, but it
seems like a workable solution).


Thanks in Advance,

Robert Fenster


That is more or less the route that I went. Lots
of stuff comes with both a 120 charger and a DC
charger that plugs into the cigar lighter, but my
stuff didn't.

First, the size of the inverter is largely
irrelevant, you determine the minimum size you
need by the draw (the stuff you plug in). But,
smaller may be more efficient. I bought a really
nice 350 watt inverter from Costco for $25 that
has a fan in it and a digital read out of the car
voltage the output voltage and the watts output.
And it has all the safety features, turns off when
car voltage drops below a certain point, etc.

Charging my 7.4V camera battery (NiMH) or charging
four AA NiMH batteries (different charger)
draws so little current that the inverter won't
even indicate watts out, the fan never comes on,
and the inverter is the same temperature as the
car air.

So, to answer you question, get a good inverter,
that includes protection for the car battery and
the inverter. Get one with a voltage and power
read out with a maximum power of 300 watts. Note
that most battery chargers are under 10 watts. If
you auto battery is in good shape, using an
inverter to charge a camera or phone battery
for 1 hour would have little effect on the
battery. If the engine were is running, you would
never notice any effect; the heater fan on low
probably use way more power.

It is a non-problem.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 10:56:03 -0500, "Bob" wrote:


Get a cigarette lighter multi-plug adapter. Every auto parts store sells

Normally, I just accept the premises of the poster, but this was my
reaction too. This would be a lot simpler, take up much less space,
and I don't see any drawbacks. Each item would draw only what it
needs and there would be no conversion losses either.

them. Then you can keep several plugged in at the same time. Just make sure
your vehicle's cigarette lighter is wired through your ignition switch, so
you don't drain the battery when the engine isn't running.

Used to be, all cigarette lighters were on all the time. Not so much
in later model cars. If he wanted the op could move the power from an
always on place to Accessorty place, although I'm not sure I would
want to do that. I might want to charge the cell phone while
sleeping, if I were hiking all day for example, or otherwise out of
the car.

What I think is great is Battery Buddy (there is a competitor I
haven't tried) I used BB for a couple years, a year of which I had an
almost dead battery. BB tripped 100% reliably if I let the car sit
for more than 36 hours. Just push the button and there was always
more than enough power to start the car again. The radio lost its
pre-sets (and supposedly the engine computer lost its best settings,
but I couldn't tell the difference).



http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-4-in-1-DC-Po...QQcmdZViewItem



"MG" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Robert Fenster" wrote in message
news:rC9wf.4036$Dh.2062@dukeread04...
I am interested in getting a 100W - 150W power inverter for the car.

I figured rather than buy every single ligher adapter for every cell
phone/laptop/digital camera, the power inverter would do the trick.

My concern is based on the fact that both cars i have are small 4 cyln
engines.

Assuming i remove the lighter adapter if while i drive throught the
mountains of West Virigina (once a year), what are the pro's and con's
of
such a solution.

(NOTE: I do see the irony of plugging a transformer into an inverter,
but
it
seems like a workable solution).


Thanks in Advance,

Robert Fenster



A word of caution with cheap inverters, they deliver a square wave that
has
the same RMS as a 120V outlet, but not always the same peak. They are
fine
for heating but may give problem with rectifiers like battery chargers.

I would measure and compare the charging current to make sure is roughly
the same with inverter or 120V house current. Need to measure the current
because the voltage is determined by the battery and is fairly independent
of the current.

As far as the 4 cylinders, I would not worry. A 150W inverter is more
than
adequate for charging and it will only take what it needs from the
battery.

A phone charger may use 2W and the inverter efficiency at such low load
may
be only 10% so you may have a 20W drain on the battery, that is less than
one head light. You can measure the No Load current to the inverter and
expect that to be a baseline, small loads will add little to it a full
150W
may add 15Amps at 12V.
Running the inverter at full load is probably more taxing for the inverter
for the battery and the engine, even uphill.
The figures above are only ball park not knowing the specifics.

If you can find a 20W sine wave inverter than all concerns disappear.

Mauro








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