On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:36:48 GMT, "josh" wrote:

:
:"Dan_Musicant" wrote
:
: Does that mean from overhead or from an angle? The PM contends that if
: you can only see it from the side, it's not of consequence.
:
an,
:
:This person is yanking your chain. You're not supposed to see the fasteners
:from any angle. I suggest you read the warranty, posted on Elk's site. Your
:warranty is void, when not installed correctly. You can read the
:installation procedures, also on their site. In bold letters, it states:
:"Always nail or staple through the fastener line". It also states exposure
:is 5-5/8", with the nail line at 6-1/8".

Yes, the nail heads themselves are very nearly 3/8 inch in diameter. So
assuming the nail line and cutouts of the shingles are accurately placed
and that the nail is driven dead on the nail line, there would be a tad
(1/64th inch, approximately) over 7/16 from the bottom of the overlieing
shingle to the bottom edge of the nailhead. Whether or not you can see
that nail head depends a lot on how raised the overlieing shingle edge
is. All this varies from shingle to shingle. I can try again, but
yesterday the project manager didn't want to replace a shingle on the
basis of whether a nail in it was visible. He said it had to be visible
from straight over it, looking down at a 90 degree angle from the
shingle.
:
:There's not a lot of margin for error, when installing these shingles.

Also, a lot of the nails are at a fairly (obviously) pronounced angle,
because the nailer was in such a hurry he couldn't be bothered to adjust
his position when nailing the entire shingle. Many are not flush,
either. Some stand up, I'd say, a good 3/16".
:
:This is why I would also be concerned of placement of fasteners, with a
roper distance from the seams.

That's another area where I think they are guilty. They fired away a lot
of times, putting easily double the number of fasteners in a shingle as
if they could correct their errors by firing in more nails.

I'm concerned about another thing right now. The project manager gave
his two men instructions early yesterday afternoon to remove all the
shingles from the north dormer, which is the 20' x 25' less than 3/12
sloped roof that requires double underlayment. They left the current
layer of 30 lb. underlayment. I can understand doing that overnight to
leave protection against any possible precipitation (although there's
none in the forecast). However, I doubt that this existing layer of
underlayment should be left on there before they proceed. The
manufacturer's specification is for overlapping double underlayment, not
one layer on top of another. Here's what it says on the shingle package:

" UNDERLAYMENT

Apply underlayment (Non-Perforated No. 15 or 30 asphalt saturated felt).
Cover drip edge at eaves only. ICBO requires No. 30 underlayment for
re-roofing over wood shingles.

For low slope (2/12 up to 4/12), completely cover the deck with two
plies of underlayment overlapping a minimum of 19". Begin by fastening a
19" wide strip of underlayment placed along the eaves. Place a full 36"
wide sheet over the starter, horizontally placed along the eaves and
completely overlapping the starter strip."


Maybe I should print that out and hand that to them when they come in
the morning, although it wouldn't surprise me if the person in charge
wouldn't comprehend it. If they try to put a second layer of
underlayment over the existing one, it won't be to specification and the
lower layer will have hundreds and hundreds of nail holes in it to boot.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:21:15 GMT, Dan_Musicant wrote:


:
:I'm concerned about another thing right now. The project manager gave
:his two men instructions early yesterday afternoon to remove all the
:shingles from the north dormer, which is the 20' x 25' less than 3/12
:sloped roof that requires double underlayment. They left the current
:layer of 30 lb. underlayment. I can understand doing that overnight to
:leave protection against any possible precipitation (although there's
:none in the forecast). However, I doubt that this existing layer of
:underlayment should be left on there before they proceed. The
:manufacturer's specification is for overlapping double underlayment, not
ne layer on top of another. Here's what it says on the shingle package:
:
:" UNDERLAYMENT
:
:Apply underlayment (Non-Perforated No. 15 or 30 asphalt saturated felt).
:Cover drip edge at eaves only. ICBO requires No. 30 underlayment for
:re-roofing over wood shingles.
:
:For low slope (2/12 up to 4/12), completely cover the deck with two
lies of underlayment overlapping a minimum of 19". Begin by fastening a
:19" wide strip of underlayment placed along the eaves. Place a full 36"
:wide sheet over the starter, horizontally placed along the eaves and
:completely overlapping the starter strip."
:
They left 5 rolls of 216 square foot 30 lb. underlayment beside the
house, so maybe they plan on tearing off down to the CDX and applying
two layers per manufacturer's specifications (19" overlapping). I guess
it will come down Monday.