Basic Home Electrical Question
 

I've been reading up on basic home wiring. After I few pages I have
one basic question that I need to get a good answer to before I read
more.

All my reading refers to the black wire as the "hot" wire and the white
wire as the "neutral" wire. Polorized plugs force the black wire on
the outlet to connect to the black wire on the appliance.

The reason all this is supposedly done is because current flows from
the black wire in the fuse box to the white wire the neutral bus bar in
the fuse box.

Now why I may buy this "current flow" for direct current, it seems to
run against the concept of alternating current.

Can someone set me straight on this topic? What EXACTLY do the terms
"hot" and "neutral" mean?

Thanks

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
I've been reading up on basic home wiring. After I few pages I have
one basic question that I need to get a good answer to before I read
more.

All my reading refers to the black wire as the "hot" wire and the white
wire as the "neutral" wire. Polorized plugs force the black wire on
the outlet to connect to the black wire on the appliance.

The reason all this is supposedly done is because current flows from
the black wire in the fuse box to the white wire the neutral bus bar in
the fuse box.

Now why I may buy this "current flow" for direct current, it seems to
run against the concept of alternating current.

Can someone set me straight on this topic? What EXACTLY do the terms
"hot" and "neutral" mean?

I was confused about this once myself.
Do a google search; I am sure you will find some nice diagrams that explain
it better than I can.
(Hint: the neutral is always 0v, the hot alternates...)

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

In article .com,
wrote:
I've been reading up on basic home wiring. After I few pages I have
one basic question that I need to get a good answer to before I read
more.

All my reading refers to the black wire as the "hot" wire and the white
wire as the "neutral" wire. Polorized plugs force the black wire on
the outlet to connect to the black wire on the appliance.

The reason all this is supposedly done is because current flows from
the black wire in the fuse box to the white wire the neutral bus bar in
the fuse box.

Now why I may buy this "current flow" for direct current, it seems to
run against the concept of alternating current.

Can someone set me straight on this topic? What EXACTLY do the terms
"hot" and "neutral" mean?

The "neutral" wire is at ground potential. The "hot" is (usually)
120vac relative to the neutral. The hot doesn't have to be black,
although thats the most commonly used color. White must be the neutral.
Green must be the ground. Any other color can be used for the hot.
True with A.C. the current flow goes back and fourth. Its the voltage
relative to neutral that defines the hot.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

Rich,

Not that I would do this (AND I RECOMMEND NO ONE ELSE DO THIS EITHER),
but does that mean that when replacing a switch or an outlet, that I
could turn the power back on and touch the NEUTRAL (white) wire and not
receive a shock?

Wardell

..panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Rich,

Not that I would do this (AND I RECOMMEND NO ONE ELSE DO THIS EITHER),
but does that mean that when replacing a switch or an outlet, that I
could turn the power back on and touch the NEUTRAL (white) wire and not
receive a shock?

If the outlet is wired correctly you could touch the Neutral (usually white)
while grounded and not get shocked. The Neutral is suspose to be grounded
back at the service entrance/panel box.

To answer your question above, the electricity does not actually come out of
the black wire and return on the white wire. That is just simple thinking
to make it easy to explain the circuit.

In most homes in the US there are 3 wires comming in. There are 2 hot wires
and one neutral. There are 240 volts across the two Hot wires and 120 volts
from the neutral and either hot wire. If only 240 volt devices are used
then there is no need for the neuteral wire. If you start adding 120 volt
devices , some on one side and some on the other side then the current will
be unbalanced on the hot wires and the neuteral will have some current on
it. If you could put the same current load on each side of the two circuits
then there would again bo no current flow on the neutral wire and it could
be disconnected and the devices would continut to work normally.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Rich,

Not that I would do this (AND I RECOMMEND NO ONE ELSE DO THIS EITHER),
but does that mean that when replacing a switch or an outlet, that I
could turn the power back on and touch the NEUTRAL (white) wire and not
receive a shock?

Wardell

.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L


On a properly wired system that is working properly you are able to touch
the bare/green wire or the white wire and not receive any shock. Only the
hot wire, usually black has any shock potential.

And please don't try this at home kiddies, as long as you aren't grounded
you can handle the hot wire with the juice on. Electricians do it all the
time while standing on a fiberglass ladder. You can get a nasty shock
changing an outlet live because the ground wire connect to the part of the
device you are holding. Please remember that even a 110V circuit can kill
you it the right situation.

And for the OP: I am not qualified to explain it to you but the term
alternating current refers to what happens before the electricity enters
your home. There are two generators working in a 60HZ cycle that feed juice
to the line. Somehow this permits more juice to flow farther at a lower
cost. That is an extremely simplified explanation. But it is about all I can
explain.

Colbyt

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Rich,

Not that I would do this (AND I RECOMMEND NO ONE ELSE DO THIS EITHER),
but does that mean that when replacing a switch or an outlet, that I
could turn the power back on and touch the NEUTRAL (white) wire and not
receive a shock?

As long as there's nothing connected to the circuit that is drawing power.
However, if there's current going through the circuit, anwhere on that
particular circuit (wires connected to the same breaker) there's going to be
some voltage potential because there's a resistance from that white wire
back to the breaker box. Now the voltage is most likely low (less than a
volt) so unless you are sticking a white wire in your mouth and the ground
wire up your ass, the likely hood is nearly zero that you will feel a shock.

The best thing to do is wear rubber bottom sneakers and synthetic gloves if
you plan on working on a powered circuit and you are a novice.


Wardell

.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"FDR" wrote in
:

The best thing to do is wear rubber bottom sneakers and synthetic
gloves if you plan on working on a powered circuit and you are a
novice.



If you're a novice (or anything less than a pro...) TURN OFF THE POWER!!!

Brad

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Rich,

Not that I would do this (AND I RECOMMEND NO ONE ELSE DO THIS EITHER),
but does that mean that when replacing a switch or an outlet, that I
could turn the power back on and touch the NEUTRAL (white) wire and not
receive a shock?

Heck, my wife (and millions of others) does it several times a day. The
chassis of our stove and dryer are connected to the neutral. Unless the
neutral connection has come loose, it is an almost infinitely better ground
than the person touching it; so the toucher gets close to 0v.

In the situation you describe is even safer; a (presumably open) switch or a
unused outlet, you could lick the neutral and get nothing; unless the ground
bus has come loose, it is absolutely 0v.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

Yes it may be somewhat confusing. As Einstein (100 years ago last month)
said, it's all relative. Try to picture an oscillating wave representing
120VAC. The difference between the top and bottom of the waves is 120 V.
Now if we force one side to be grounded the other side must be oscillating
between plus 120 V and minus 120 V. But remember there never is more than
120 V relative to ground.

On Navy ships all 120 VAC power has no neutral. Each leg is hot and is 60
VAC relative to ground similar to the way 240 VAC in your house is set up.
This is for safety since you will only get a 60 V shock between a hot and
ground. We always had to check out test gear we took ships to make sure
that the neutral was not connected to ground.

If you really want to be confused try to understand 3 phase power. Ever
notice how all high voltage lines are in sets of three. With three phase
power the sum of the power supplied to a load is constant so motors and
generators run much more smoothly.


wrote in message
oups.com...
I've been reading up on basic home wiring. After I few pages I have
one basic question that I need to get a good answer to before I read
more.

All my reading refers to the black wire as the "hot" wire and the white
wire as the "neutral" wire. Polorized plugs force the black wire on
the outlet to connect to the black wire on the appliance.

The reason all this is supposedly done is because current flows from
the black wire in the fuse box to the white wire the neutral bus bar in
the fuse box.

Now why I may buy this "current flow" for direct current, it seems to
run against the concept of alternating current.

Can someone set me straight on this topic? What EXACTLY do the terms
"hot" and "neutral" mean?

Thanks

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

The best thing to do is wear rubber bottom sneakers and synthetic gloves
if you plan on working on a powered circuit and you are a novice.

The first time I tightened the connections on my main breaker I did exactly
that, while holding an insulated allen wrench. I knew it was silly, but it
was the MAIN BREAKER.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

I think I understand this a little better now thanks to everyone's
responses.

Let me restate what I think some people have said plus what else I've
managed to google.

If I pretend the electron flow was water instead of electrons, then
what's happening is that the electric company is pushing and pulling
"water" through the black wires at the rate of 60 cycles per second at
an energy level of 120 volts, hence this is "hot".

The white wire, e.g. "pipe" is connected to a large calm lake, e.g.
ground potential.

Now If I were to touch the white wire (assuming it was wired correctly
to the "calm lake", it's just connected a resevoir of electrons at
ground potential so there's no flow. However if I were to touch the
black wire and provide a path to ground, then this "water" would be
flowing through me, e.g. an electrical shock.

Is this at least a reasonable analofy of why black is "hot" and why
white is "neutral"?

Thanks to everyone for their response.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"Jeff" wrote in message

If you really want to be confused try to understand 3 phase power. Ever
notice how all high voltage lines are in sets of three. With three phase
power the sum of the power supplied to a load is constant so motors and
generators run much more smoothly.

3 Phase is really easy to explain. You put a volt meter across any two
wires and you get 277 volts. but across the three is 480. Simple math huh?
Then there is power factor . . . . . .

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

"Jeff" wrote in message

If you really want to be confused try to understand 3 phase power. Ever
notice how all high voltage lines are in sets of three. With three
phase
power the sum of the power supplied to a load is constant so motors and
generators run much more smoothly.

3 Phase is really easy to explain. You put a volt meter across any two
wires and you get 277 volts. but across the three is 480. Simple math
huh?
Then there is power factor . . . . . .

Any two will get you 480 volts. If wired in the Y configuration and the
center is grounded , then you get 277 to ground from any wire.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message

Any two will get you 480 volts. If wired in the Y configuration and the
center is grounded , then you get 277 to ground from any wire.

Oops, that's right of course. 2 x 277 = 480

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Yes it may be somewhat confusing. As Einstein (100 years ago last month)
said, it's all relative. Try to picture an oscillating wave representing
120VAC. The difference between the top and bottom of the waves is 120 V.
Now if we force one side to be grounded the other side must be oscillating
between plus 120 V and minus 120 V. But remember there never is more than
120 V relative to ground.

No, not quite. Single phase oscillates between 169 positive peak and 169
volts negative peak, not 120 Volts. This yields the effective voltage of 120
volts (RMS). RMS voltage is .707 x peak. Peak is 1.414 x RMS.

Bob

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

"Jeff" wrote in message

If you really want to be confused try to understand 3 phase power. Ever
notice how all high voltage lines are in sets of three. With three phase
power the sum of the power supplied to a load is constant so motors and
generators run much more smoothly.

3 Phase is really easy to explain. You put a volt meter across any two
wires and you get 277 volts. but across the three is 480. Simple math
huh? Then there is power factor . . . . . .

Then there's the whole Y or Delta configuration. Hated those classes in
college.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

On 22 Oct 2005 18:32:00 -0700, wrote:

I think I understand this a little better now thanks to everyone's
responses.

Let me restate what I think some people have said plus what else I've
managed to google.

If I pretend the electron flow was water instead of electrons, then
what's happening is that the electric company is pushing and pulling
"water" through the black wires at the rate of 60 cycles per second at
an energy level of 120 volts, hence this is "hot".

The white wire, e.g. "pipe" is connected to a large calm lake, e.g.
ground potential.

Now If I were to touch the white wire (assuming it was wired correctly
to the "calm lake", it's just connected a resevoir of electrons at
ground potential so there's no flow. However if I were to touch the
black wire and provide a path to ground, then this "water" would be
flowing through me, e.g. an electrical shock.

Is this at least a reasonable analofy of why black is "hot" and why
white is "neutral"?

Thanks to everyone for their response.


I think you might be confused with the terms AC and DC, current flow
and electron flow.

In a DC circuit, current flow was described as flowing from the (+)
terminal to the minus terminal (-). This convention existed since
the days of Ben Franklin. However, electrons flow from the (-)
terminal to the (+) terminal (the opposite direction to current flow).
Electricians and circuit designers are interested in current flow.
Electron flow might be of interest to a scientist.

In an AC circuit, the poles are changing 50 or 60 times a second.
This has no effect on the magnitude of the current flow. The
electron flow (unlike a DC circuit) will effectively be zero, but the
AC current flow could be huge. Usually (just for convention) we say
the current is flowing from the hot wire and back through the neutral,
but this is just a concept, it actually does not have a direction.

Beachcomber

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

You got it pretty good.
Don Young
wrote in message
oups.com...
I think I understand this a little better now thanks to everyone's
responses.

Let me restate what I think some people have said plus what else I've
managed to google.

If I pretend the electron flow was water instead of electrons, then
what's happening is that the electric company is pushing and pulling
"water" through the black wires at the rate of 60 cycles per second at
an energy level of 120 volts, hence this is "hot".

The white wire, e.g. "pipe" is connected to a large calm lake, e.g.
ground potential.

Now If I were to touch the white wire (assuming it was wired correctly
to the "calm lake", it's just connected a resevoir of electrons at
ground potential so there's no flow. However if I were to touch the
black wire and provide a path to ground, then this "water" would be
flowing through me, e.g. an electrical shock.

Is this at least a reasonable analofy of why black is "hot" and why
white is "neutral"?

Thanks to everyone for their response.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

Now If I were to touch the white wire (assuming it was wired correctly
to the "calm lake", it's just connected a resevoir of electrons at
ground potential so there's no flow. However if I were to touch the
black wire and provide a path to ground, then this "water" would be
flowing through me, e.g. an electrical shock.

Not exactly, when the white wire or neutral is part of a circuit, there is
"flow", and if you were to cut that neutral wire and get between the two
wires, or the live end and ground, there will be flow through you.







wrote in message
oups.com...
I think I understand this a little better now thanks to everyone's
responses.

Let me restate what I think some people have said plus what else I've
managed to google.

If I pretend the electron flow was water instead of electrons, then
what's happening is that the electric company is pushing and pulling
"water" through the black wires at the rate of 60 cycles per second at
an energy level of 120 volts, hence this is "hot".

The white wire, e.g. "pipe" is connected to a large calm lake, e.g.
ground potential.

Now If I were to touch the white wire (assuming it was wired correctly
to the "calm lake", it's just connected a resevoir of electrons at
ground potential so there's no flow. However if I were to touch the
black wire and provide a path to ground, then this "water" would be
flowing through me, e.g. an electrical shock.

Is this at least a reasonable analofy of why black is "hot" and why
white is "neutral"?

Thanks to everyone for their response.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

In article .com,
wrote:
Rich,

Not that I would do this (AND I RECOMMEND NO ONE ELSE DO THIS EITHER),
but does that mean that when replacing a switch or an outlet, that I
could turn the power back on and touch the NEUTRAL (white) wire and not
receive a shock?

Yes, as long as you are not in contact with a hot line.

In fact, if you are careful not be be grounded you can touch the hot
wire without a shock. I don't recommend doing this, but I have changed
both switches and outlets while they were live.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

Not exactly, when the white wire or neutral is part of a circuit, there is
"flow", and if you were to cut that neutral wire and get between the two
wires, or the live end and ground, there will be flow through you.

Certainly, but only because the live end of the white wire is now a hot
rather than a neutral.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

No, it has already gone through a resistor. It's a return seeking its
neutral or ground to complete its circuit, and this fella needs to
understand that if he gets in between it he's going to get hurt.




"Toller" wrote in message
...

Not exactly, when the white wire or neutral is part of a circuit, there
is
"flow", and if you were to cut that neutral wire and get between the two
wires, or the live end and ground, there will be flow through you.

Certainly, but only because the live end of the white wire is now a hot
rather than a neutral.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

Polarized plugs are a safety feature, especially with something like a lamp.
This connects the "hot" wire to the center connection where the bulb screws
in.

When replacing a light bulb, it is possible you could accidentally touch the
metal ring while unscrewing the bulb. If the metal ring is connected to
neutral (because of the polarized plug), then you will not get shocked.

Also the polarized plug will connect to an appliance on/off switch. So when
the appliance is switched off, it is shutting off the hot. So say something
like a toaster which has a switch which only disconnects one wire. It is
best if the wire the switch is disconnecting is the hot wire! Otherwise hot
would be connected to the heating elements even when the toaster was off,
and a kid might stick a knife or hand inside the toaster, then be shocked.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
No, it has already gone through a resistor. It's a return seeking its
neutral or ground to complete its circuit, and this fella needs to
understand that if he gets in between it he's going to get hurt.

Sure, it has been through a resistor (or at least a load of some kind...) so
why isn't it still a hot?
Take a 240v motor. It has three wires; 2 hots and a neutral. A hot goes to
a winding and then to the neutral. When it comes off the winding it is not
a neutral, it is simply a hot that has gone through the winding.

This is hair splitting; we certainly agree that the wire, whatever it is
called, is potentially dangerous. But, I think it is still properly called
a hot.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

Take a 240v motor. It has three wires; 2 hots and a neutral. A hot goes
to
a winding and then to the neutral. When it comes off the winding it is
not
a neutral, it is simply a hot that has gone through the winding.

This is hair splitting; we certainly agree that the wire, whatever it is
called, is potentially dangerous. But, I think it is still properly
called
a hot.


A normal 240 volt motor only has 2 'hot' wires. There is no neutral. Both
of the wires are 120 volts hot to ground in a normal home in the US. It may
(should) have a ground wire going to its frame.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

According to RBM rbm2(remove :
No, it has already gone through a resistor. It's a return seeking its
neutral or ground to complete its circuit, and this fella needs to
understand that if he gets in between it he's going to get hurt.

Right.

Still, for all intents and purposes it is a hot. You're not going to
find a significant difference between the lethality or voltage of
a direct-from-panel hot, and one that's gone through a lightbulb on
the way (if it's disconnected from neutral).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

I know Chris, I'm just trying to impress that on the OP. Reading some of his
questions and responses, I just don't want him to be believing that neutrals
are always benign
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to RBM rbm2(remove :
No, it has already gone through a resistor. It's a return seeking its
neutral or ground to complete its circuit, and this fella needs to
understand that if he gets in between it he's going to get hurt.

Right.

Still, for all intents and purposes it is a hot. You're not going to
find a significant difference between the lethality or voltage of
a direct-from-panel hot, and one that's gone through a lightbulb on
the way (if it's disconnected from neutral).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...


I just love this group when you guys get in a spirited discussion about
something so far removed from a direct answer to the question.

Too much schooling I guess.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

Nothing silly about being safe.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Toller" wrote in message
...
The best thing to do is wear rubber bottom sneakers and synthetic gloves
if you plan on working on a powered circuit and you are a novice.

The first time I tightened the connections on my main breaker I did exactly
that, while holding an insulated allen wrench. I knew it was silly, but it
was the MAIN BREAKER.

Basic Home Electrical Question
 

On 22 Oct 2005 16:11:53 -0700, wrote:
Can someone set me straight on this topic? What EXACTLY do the terms
"hot" and "neutral" mean?

There are actually three conductors in house wiring; hot, neutral, and ground.
Only the hot and neutral wires are intended to carry any current. The gound
wire is a safety device. It is connected to your cold water pipe, to any
exposed metal in powered appliances (hence the three prong plug), and to the
earth itself. And, at your main circuit panel, it is connected to the neutral
wire. If the wiring is correct and functioning as intended, you should only be
able to observe (via a meter) a voltage difference between the hot conductor
and *either* the neutral or ground conductors.

These designations, and the way the safety system functions, are completely
independent of whether the system is driven with direct current (DC) or
alternating current (AC).

--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse (remove this) DOT net