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#1
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Frequency and Voltage
Hi,
Can some one explain the relationship between Voltage, Frequency. Is frequency is affecting the electrical consumption. According to the formula P= Root (3) V . I. Cos (Pi). Frequency is not causing any affect on Power until unless it is having a relationship between V or I.. Can some one clarify this. Regards, Sridhar |
#2
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Frequency and Voltage
What do you mean Cos(Pi)?
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#3
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Frequency and Voltage
Frequency just describes the cycles per second, or Hertz, that the
Voltage is. Here in the US its 60 Hertz. It is constant. The Pi in the formula is also a constant. |
#4
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Frequency and Voltage
"Frequency just describes the cycles per second, or Hertz, that the
Voltage is. Here in the US its 60 Hertz. It is constant. The Pi in the formula is also a constant. " The argument of the cosine function is the angle between voltage and current in an AC load. It varies depending on the inductance and/or capacitance of a particular load. The symbol used for the angle is normally theta, not Pi as the OP stated. |
#5
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Frequency and Voltage
"Hi,
Can some one explain the relationship between Voltage, Frequency. Is frequency is affecting the electrical consumption. According to the formula P= Root (3) V . I. Cos (Pi). Frequency is not causing any affect on Power until unless it is having a relationship between V or I.. Can some one clarify this. " The power formula you have is for a three phase AC load. For a pure resistance load, eg a simple load like a heater, the voltage and current are always in line with each other. If you drew graphs of the two, and placed one over the other, they would line up perfectly. That is not true for a load that has inductance or capacitance, eg a motor. In that case, the inductance of the motor will cause a phase shift between the voltage and the current. If you place the graphs together, you will see that while the frequency is exactly the same, one curve is shifted slightly relative to the other. Since power is the product of voltage and current, the instantaneous power is still V*I, but the average power is affected by the amount of shift between the voltage and current curves. That's where the Cos() function comes in. The angle used in the cosine function is the angle between the voltage and current in the load. For a pure resistive load, the voltage and current would be in perfect alignment and the angle would be zero, giving cos(0)=1. As you add inductance or capacitance, the angle will become non-zero, resulting in a reduction in power. Another way of looking at this intuitively is that as the the voltage and current go out of alignment, when multiplying instantaneous voltage and power along the two curves, since they no longe line up, the power will obviously be reduced. |
#6
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Frequency and Voltage
Just to further clarify, regarding frequency, the OP is correct.
Frequency of an AC load does not affect power |
#7
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Frequency and Voltage
wrote in message oups.com... Just to further clarify, regarding frequency, the OP is correct. Frequency of an AC load does not affect power Are you sure about that? Frequency affects induction, and if induction affects affects power, then frequency affects power. |
#8
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Frequency and Voltage
"Are you sure about that? Frequency affects induction, and if
induction affects affects power, then frequency affects power" Well, you've got me there. That was an incorrect statement. I had the equation for 3 Phase power that the OP gave in mind and the fact that freq is not part of it. But of course you are right, the frequency has a big effect on any load with inductance or capacitance. And that effect gets into the OP's power equation by virture of the fact that the phase angle between voltage and current contained in the equation is itself a function of the frequency. Thanks for correcting that! |
#9
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Frequency and Voltage
Toller ) said...
wrote in message roups.com... Just to further clarify, regarding frequency, the OP is correct. Frequency of an AC load does not affect power Are you sure about that? Frequency affects induction, and if induction affects affects power, then frequency affects power. Frequency does not effect power, as a purely inductive or capacitive load does not draw any power (not counting any losses due to the tiny resistance of the conductors themselves, which means that you can never really have a purely inductive or capacitive load!). Since the impedance will be affected by frequency, the total current draw will be changed as a result of a frequency change. The cosine of the angle between current and voltage is known as the "power factor". In a purely resistive load, it is 1. In a purely inductive or capacitive load, it is zero. Typical loads lie inbetween, but it is best to keep it as close to 1 as possible. Industrial customers of electric utilities must maintain as high a power factor as possible. They usually have banks of capacitors that can be automatically switched on and off as needed as they will have heavy inductive loads from motors. If they maintain too low a power factor, they will be charged for kVA-hours instead of kW-hours. For instance, if you maintained a 0.5 power factor, then a 100 A load at 120 V would be 100 x 120 x 0.5 = 6000 watts. An hour of this would be 6 kWh, but it is 12 kVAh. Why be charged for more energy than you actually used? Simply because you are a burden on the system. Even though your load was only 6000 watts, you drew double the current than was really necessary for that amount of power. Therefore, the infrastructure needed to deliver that power had to have twice the capacity than was really necessary. Low power factor loads tend to be inductive, so a bank of capacitors can cancel it out. Inductors cause current to lag behind the voltage, while capacitors cause current to lead voltage. The two cancel each other out. In the example above, since capacitors store and release current, they supply the "extra" current needed for the inductive load, so the only current draw on the supply is for the current actually needed to provide power. If perfectly matched, the 6000 watt load would draw 50 amps from the supply while the other 50 amps would be current between the inductive load and the capacitors. As an interesting side note: your home probably has a leading power factor most of the time. The wiring in your home actually acts as a capacitor. When I was a student, I worked on weekends as a watchman at a factory. There was a power factor meter where the bank of capacitors was. When the factory was shut down and the only load was lighting, the power factor was usually 0.7-0.8 leading. As machines were started up and the inductance of the load increased, the PF would rise to 1 then start dropping on the lagging side. I believe a bank of capacitors would be switched in when it dropped to 0.7. In addition to the kWh meter, there was a kVAh meter. -- Calvin Henry-Cotnam "Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence." - Napoleon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid" |
#11
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Frequency and Voltage
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#12
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Frequency and Voltage
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#13
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Frequency and Voltage
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#14
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Frequency and Voltage
"The formula works just as well for single phase power.
Your description is quite correct for any number of phases. " P= Root (3) V . I. Cos (Pi). It does? The cube root arises because it's a three phase circuit. |
#15
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Frequency and Voltage
wrote:
P= Root (3) V . I. Cos (Pi). It does? The cube root arises because it's a three phase circuit. I believe you will find that's the square root of 3. Nick |
#16
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Frequency and Voltage
dean wrote:
What do you mean Cos(Pi)? -1? Nick |
#17
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Frequency and Voltage
Exactly! Why not just say -1 then? LOL
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#18
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Frequency and Voltage
"Exactly! Why not just say -1 then? LOL "
It's an obvious mistake in an equation which is otherwise correct. Instead of Pi, the correct variable usually used is theta. |
#19
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Frequency and Voltage
wrote in message oups.com... "Exactly! Why not just say -1 then? LOL " All of this reminds me of the guy who was taking Electricity 101. He was trying to remember the equation for power for a test. His buddy said "Just remember 'twinkle, twinkle little star. Power is equal to I(squared) R.'" When the test results came back our student had not done very well. "I got mixed up" he said. "All I could remember was ' Shining in the sky so high, Power is equal to R(squared) I' " Sorry about straying a little off topic. The devil made me do it. Charlie |
#20
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Frequency and Voltage
None. Voltage is electrical intensity. Frequency is the inverse of the
duration of time necessary to cycle. -- Christopher A. Young Do good work. It's longer in the short run but shorter in the long run. .. .. wrote in message oups.com... Hi, Can some one explain the relationship between Voltage, Frequency. Is frequency is affecting the electrical consumption. According to the formula P= Root (3) V . I. Cos (Pi). Frequency is not causing any affect on Power until unless it is having a relationship between V or I.. Can some one clarify this. Regards, Sridhar |
#21
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Frequency and Voltage
wrote in message oups.com... Hi, Can some one explain the relationship between Voltage, Frequency. Is frequency is affecting the electrical consumption. According to the formula P= Root (3) V . I. Cos (Pi). Frequency is not causing any affect on Power until unless it is having a relationship between V or I.. Can some one clarify this. Regards, Sridhar Some good answers here...Might I just add that in a resistive circuit, as posted, voltage and current are in phase so there is 0 phase angle between voltage and current and thus no losses other than the resistance. In a capacitive or inductive circuit there is reactance. The formula for capacative reactance is 1 divided by 2pi*f*c and for inductive reactance it is 2pi *f*l. As you can see, as the frequency goes up so does the reactance of the circuit and thus the overall power is reduced. With typical AC power the 60 cycles are constant so the only variable is the capacitance or inductance of the circuit which will cause the current to lead or lag the voltage and leave you with less power. Hope that helps........Ross |
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