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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:55:45 -0400, keith wrote:
What was Al Gore's excuse? Yeah, I know: "Throughout most of my life, I raised tobacco. I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I've hoed it. I've dug in it. I've sprayed it, I've chopped it, I've shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it." ...in Washington DC. And in his spare time, he invented the internet. What a guy! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:03:48 GMT, "Peter" wrote:
I'd love to take an informal poll in this newsgroup to see who is making more, less or the same compared to 2000. I think it would be interesting. If I hadn't retired, I'd be making about 5K more than I did in 2000. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
David Starr wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:03:48 GMT, "Peter" wrote: I'd love to take an informal poll in this newsgroup to see who is making more, less or the same compared to 2000. I think it would be interesting. If I hadn't retired, I'd be making about 5K more than I did in 2000. But, at what cost? |
Whats interesting is that the "indians" probably wrote the software
that made your life easier. |
You can't take a poll on income. How do you measure effort? What is the
context? Have you done anything to elevate yourself? Do you expect to have the same, brain-dead job for 40 years and keep making more and more money without ever gaining any new skills? Have your skills become antiquated? Are you more valuable to your employer now? If not, why do you expect more money? |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:30:44 -0700, G Henslee wrote:
David Starr wrote: On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:03:48 GMT, "Peter" wrote: I'd love to take an informal poll in this newsgroup to see who is making more, less or the same compared to 2000. I think it would be interesting. If I hadn't retired, I'd be making about 5K more than I did in 2000. But, at what cost? An extra thousand a year doesn't even cover the cost of living increases. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
how do you know what his "cost of living" is, or what he made before? I
suspect that after 14K+ days in a union you were grossly overpaid when you retired. So why do you need a "cost of living" increase? Because the world owes you a living? Thats the problem with people in the middle class in America. They think they deserve more every year even if their value stays the same. Hence, we have outsourcing. |
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You people are so misguided!! Reagan and Bush made us poorer???!!! HMPH!!! Bill Clinton do anything for me either! I think I'm registered as a Republican, but when Clinton was in office the freaking burger joints were paying signing bonuses. Something good was going on. yeah, a web-based tech-sector fantasy bubble. And like a hit of crack, it felt really good at the time, but wasn't indicative of economic health. --Goedjn |
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COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of
their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. American workers think they are entitled to all of these goofy benefits just because they show up. Get better at your job and you get a raise. Increase your value to the company and you'll get paid more. Its something that succesful people understand. |
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Norminn wrote:
wrote: COL is a union/socialist concept. Read up on labor history and come back when you have a clue. Better yet, read up on labor history and DON'T come back. |
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:07:26 +0000, Yenc-Post 2002 wrote:
keith wrote in : On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 02:55:23 +0000, Yenc-Post 2002 wrote: "Pop" wrote in news:pOSdnRG3YsfkO7neRVn- : OBVIOUSLY OT AND NOT WORTH READING. POOR FANATICS JUST GOTTA BE BLAIMING ALL THE TIME; THEY SHOULD GET A LIFE. Hi, GW. You need to be impeached. ...and then you woke up. Your mother's ass has his own union. No, I guess you didn't. -- Keith |
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"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . ..
wrote: COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. Bullhockey. Those manufacturing jobs are going to countries where the working children make $12 a month and can't even drink theirown tap water. No way can American industry compete with that. There's no such thing as "American industry" any more. Competition is dead in the vast majority of industries, which are now controlled by tiny cartels of global conglomerates who have no allegiance to any country. They compete amongst themselves and fix prices more or less irrespective of supply and demand. Supporting this corporate fascist state are the world's megarich. In America's case, in 1978, 13% of publicly traded stock was owned by the wealthiest 1% of Americans. By 1995 this 1% held 38%. And today this 1% owns 60% of the stock and 40% of the total wealth of the country. We have not seen disparity like this since the Great Depression. For the most part these people don't give a flying **** about America's working class, in fact they have an active disdain and contempt for working class and poor people. They're only too happy to see everyone else surviving from paycheck to paycheck as they themselves get richer. |
Peter wrote:
"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . .. wrote: COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. Bullhockey. Those manufacturing jobs are going to countries where the working children make $12 a month and can't even drink theirown tap water. No way can American industry compete with that. There's no such thing as "American industry" any more. Competition is dead in the vast majority of industries, which are now controlled by tiny cartels of global conglomerates who have no allegiance to any country. They compete amongst themselves and fix prices more or less irrespective of supply and demand. Supporting this corporate fascist state are the world's megarich. In America's case, in 1978, 13% of publicly traded stock was owned by the wealthiest 1% of Americans. By 1995 this 1% held 38%. And today this 1% owns 60% of the stock and 40% of the total wealth of the country. We have not seen disparity like this since the Great Depression. That surprises me. I have always heard that more people are in the stock market now than ever before, thanks largely in part to 401k's and mutual funds. A |
"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . ..
Peter wrote: "Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . .. wrote: COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. Bullhockey. Those manufacturing jobs are going to countries where the working children make $12 a month and can't even drink theirown tap water. No way can American industry compete with that. There's no such thing as "American industry" any more. Competition is dead in the vast majority of industries, which are now controlled by tiny cartels of global conglomerates who have no allegiance to any country. They compete amongst themselves and fix prices more or less irrespective of supply and demand. Supporting this corporate fascist state are the world's megarich. In America's case, in 1978, 13% of publicly traded stock was owned by the wealthiest 1% of Americans. By 1995 this 1% held 38%. And today this 1% owns 60% of the stock and 40% of the total wealth of the country. We have not seen disparity like this since the Great Depression. That surprises me. I have always heard that more people are in the stock market now than ever before, thanks largely in part to 401k's and mutual funds. More people are in the market, but with relatively tiny investments. The wealthiest 1% of Americans own an average of $3.5 million in stocks, while those in the lowest 40% own an average of just $1800. |
Peter wrote:
"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . .. Peter wrote: "Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . .. wrote: COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. Bullhockey. Those manufacturing jobs are going to countries where the working children make $12 a month and can't even drink theirown tap water. No way can American industry compete with that. There's no such thing as "American industry" any more. Competition is dead in the vast majority of industries, which are now controlled by tiny cartels of global conglomerates who have no allegiance to any country. They compete amongst themselves and fix prices more or less irrespective of supply and demand. Supporting this corporate fascist state are the world's megarich. In America's case, in 1978, 13% of publicly traded stock was owned by the wealthiest 1% of Americans. By 1995 this 1% held 38%. And today this 1% owns 60% of the stock and 40% of the total wealth of the country. We have not seen disparity like this since the Great Depression. That surprises me. I have always heard that more people are in the stock market now than ever before, thanks largely in part to 401k's and mutual funds. More people are in the market, but with relatively tiny investments. The wealthiest 1% of Americans own an average of $3.5 million in stocks, while those in the lowest 40% own an average of just $1800. I'm going to stop this right here, because this just isn't the right group for a socialist vs capitalist debate. ciao! A |
"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message ... Peter wrote: "Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . .. Peter wrote: "Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . net... wrote: COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. Bullhockey. Those manufacturing jobs are going to countries where the working children make $12 a month and can't even drink theirown tap water. No way can American industry compete with that. There's no such thing as "American industry" any more. Competition is dead in the vast majority of industries, which are now controlled by tiny cartels of global conglomerates who have no allegiance to any country. They compete amongst themselves and fix prices more or less irrespective of supply and demand. Supporting this corporate fascist state are the world's megarich. In America's case, in 1978, 13% of publicly traded stock was owned by the wealthiest 1% of Americans. By 1995 this 1% held 38%. And today this 1% owns 60% of the stock and 40% of the total wealth of the country. We have not seen disparity like this since the Great Depression. That surprises me. I have always heard that more people are in the stock market now than ever before, thanks largely in part to 401k's and mutual funds. More people are in the market, but with relatively tiny investments. The wealthiest 1% of Americans own an average of $3.5 million in stocks, while those in the lowest 40% own an average of just $1800. I'm going to stop this right here, because this just isn't the right group for a socialist vs capitalist debate. ciao! Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? |
Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? Who is giving all our money to foreigners, etc.??? Ever hear of Iraq? Ever hear of outsourcing? |
JerryL wrote:
Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? Who is giving all our money to foreigners, etc.??? Ever hear of Iraq? Ever hear of outsourcing? Ever hear of an on topic post? Yeah, yeah, it all makes that great cosmic connection, I know. |
"G Henslee" wrote in message ... JerryL wrote: Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? Who is giving all our money to foreigners, etc.??? Ever hear of Iraq? Ever hear of outsourcing? Ever hear of an on topic post? Yeah, yeah, it all makes that great cosmic connection, I know. Someone who cannot grasp the concept of a topic of conversation would have difficulty grasping anything else. Mentally functioning at a level that does not allow them to follow a simple conversation. Steve |
Peter wrote:
"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message . .. wrote: COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. Bullhockey. Those manufacturing jobs are going to countries where the working children make $12 a month and can't even drink theirown tap water. No way can American industry compete with that. There's no such thing as "American industry" any more. Competition is dead in the vast majority of industries, which are now controlled by tiny cartels of global conglomerates who have no allegiance to any country. They compete amongst themselves and fix prices more or less irrespective of supply and demand. Supporting this corporate fascist state are the world's megarich. In America's case, in 1978, 13% of publicly traded stock was owned by the wealthiest 1% of Americans. By 1995 this 1% held 38%. And today this 1% owns 60% of the stock and 40% of the total wealth of the country. We have not seen disparity like this since the Great Depression. For the most part these people don't give a flying **** about America's working class, in fact they have an active disdain and contempt for working class and poor people. They're only too happy to see everyone else surviving from paycheck to paycheck as they themselves get richer. They don't have disdain for the working class. They have disdain for people who demand more money and costly benefits and then hide behind a union to do as little work as possible, never work a minute late and who refuse to use a merit system rather than a tenured one. People want cheap clothes and affordable cars, and you can't have those things if you have to pay American wages and with American benefits and low American productivity. The poor lose either way. |
SteveB wrote:
"G Henslee" wrote in message ... JerryL wrote: Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? Who is giving all our money to foreigners, etc.??? Ever hear of Iraq? Ever hear of outsourcing? Ever hear of an on topic post? Yeah, yeah, it all makes that great cosmic connection, I know. Someone who cannot grasp the concept of a topic of conversation would have difficulty grasping anything else. Mentally functioning at a level that does not allow them to follow a simple conversation. Steve Someone who cannot grasp the purpose and use of a usenet HOMR REPAIR newsgroup and uses it as a soapbox for their UNwanted political views DOES have difficulty grasping anything else. Mentally DISfunctioning at a sub-level that does not allow that someone to see they are full of **** and hypocritical. I repeat you cosmic cartoon smart ass, Ever hear of an on topic post? HOMR REPAIR type of post? On second thought, no second chances for your buttmunch. Tell you like I told the rest of these asswipes who can't hold their mug and stay on topic, STFU. |
wrote in message oups.com...
People want cheap clothes and affordable cars, and you can't have those things if you have to pay American wages and with American benefits and low American productivity. The poor lose either way. Absolute bull****. You've bought the propaganda. The problem isn't American wages or American benefits or low(?!) American productivity. The problem is unprecedented greed. Look at corporate pay structures in the last 20 years you'll discover what's really happening. I watched first-hand while the directors of my own company laid off 20,000 U.S. workers, shipped their jobs overseas "in order to keep the company profitable", and then proceeded to take over $300 million in bonuses for themselves and their execs. |
"G Henslee" wrote in message ... SteveB wrote: "G Henslee" wrote in message ... JerryL wrote: Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? Who is giving all our money to foreigners, etc.??? Ever hear of Iraq? Ever hear of outsourcing? Ever hear of an on topic post? Yeah, yeah, it all makes that great cosmic connection, I know. Someone who cannot grasp the concept of a topic of conversation would have difficulty grasping anything else. Mentally functioning at a level that does not allow them to follow a simple conversation. Steve Someone who cannot grasp the purpose and use of a usenet HOMR REPAIR newsgroup and uses it as a soapbox for their UNwanted political views DOES have difficulty grasping anything else. Mentally DISfunctioning at a sub-level that does not allow that someone to see they are full of **** and hypocritical. I repeat you cosmic cartoon smart ass, Ever hear of an on topic post? HOMR REPAIR type of post? On second thought, no second chances for your buttmunch. Tell you like I told the rest of these asswipes who can't hold their mug and stay on topic, STFU. Okay by me. You go first........................ You do have to admit that my posts about home repairs number far more than my posts on other topics, and those digressions are mainly to tell people to get back on topic. Steve |
You are a sad being indeed. Have you really convinced yourself that its
"propaganda"? You simply don't understand the American system. Corporations don't exist for the purpose of providing people with jobs. The goal of a corporation are, and always have been, to provide value and growth for its stockholders. There's nothing different now than ever before. Manufacturing simply isn't profitable anymore. I guess the "problem" is that the so-called working class isn't smart enough or educated enough to understand it. Its not "greed". They're doing exactly what every corporate charter says to do, which is make as much money as possible. Thats America. Save the company a billion dollars and you get a 300 million dollar bonus. I know its hard for a guy trying to buy gas for his car to understand, but thats the American system. They've returned 800 million dollars to the stockholders. They did a fantastic job, and they get a big bonus. Thats now non-union people make money. Thats how you get rich. Learn something instead of whining so much. As I said before, we've known for 30 years that manufacturing was on its way out. If you bet your life on a manufacturing job, then you are a fool. Perhaps if you paid attention to what you consider "propaganda" you wouldn't be whining now about your plight? |
Google has fuzzied the distinction between newsgroups. Why would anyone
actually "join" a public newsgroup? And if you aren't a member, then why do you care who posts to it? |
Goedjn wrote: You people are so misguided!! Reagan and Bush made us poorer???!!! HMPH!!! Bill Clinton do anything for me either! I think I'm registered as a Republican, but when Clinton was in office the freaking burger joints were paying signing bonuses. Something good was going on. yeah, a web-based tech-sector fantasy bubble. And like a hit of crack, it felt really good at the time, but wasn't indicative of economic health. --Goedjn Its quite interesting reading posts from the working poor. Its giving me incredible insight as to why you are so unsuccessful. I feel even less sorry for you than before. Its your own refusal to grasp basic concepts and your ridiculous view of the world that has made you losers. You deserve no better. |
Oscar_Lives wrote:
"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message I'm going to stop this right here, because this just isn't the right group for a socialist vs capitalist debate. ciao! Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? We won't have to repair a damned thing, because our liberal Supreme Court allows the government to take the house and turn it into upscale condos anyway. A |
Angrie.Woman wrote: Oscar_Lives wrote: "Angrie.Woman" wrote in message I'm going to stop this right here, because this just isn't the right group for a socialist vs capitalist debate. ciao! Why not? How the hell are you going to be able to do any home repairs if those liberal democrats get elected into office and they keep raising taxes and giving all our money to the foreigners and alternative people here? We won't have to repair a damned thing, because our liberal Supreme Court allows the government to take the house and turn it into upscale condos anyway. A I think you mean upscale shopping center. Lets not be like the liberals and get everything just a little bit wrong enough to suit our agenda. To me, "liberal" means "misguided". A liberal judge is a scary, scary thing. |
I fail to see how strong-arming employers into paying people more than
they're worth is an American principle contemplated by our forefathers. What you're getting now is companies sticking it to the unions after the unions have been sticking it to companies for so many years. Its the unions that have been greedy. Health costs are up 10% a year, you can't get that plus a COL and expect companies to just absorb it. |
wrote in message oups.com...
To me, "liberal" means "misguided". A liberal judge is a scary, scary thing. Liberal judges are the last thing standing between our current radical right-wing federal government and their goals of implementing a fascist state and eliminating social progress. |
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