A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?

Perce

Marketing better to sell new products than parts for the old. True in almost
every industry.
I take my batteries back to Batteries Plus and have then rebuilt with a
warranty. Costs less than a new battery.

If you really want to go nuts look at the battery terminals and positions.
Some companies like Sears change styles and types at the drop of a hat.
Making the new batteries incompatible with the old drills.

I had that same experience quite a few years ago with a Milwaukee
driver/drill. Hadn't even used it that much and the battery went kaput
after a few years. It cost me like $70 for a new battery. When this
one goes, it will be time for a new/better drill.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?

I've found that older tools are much better made than the new stuff, which
is made as cheap, and with as much flimsy plastic, as possible. My old B&D
7.2v drill used to eat right through cinderblock. My newer B&D 18v drill
sometimes slips or gets stuck on wood, probably due to the crummy keyless
chuck, which makes it practically impossible to get a good grip on the bit.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find replacement battery packs for the old drill,
so it probably went to the donation pile with the rest of my junk. Had I
known I could have rebuilt it, I would have kept it.

Anyway, the newer drill is good for use as a screw and bolt driver, and the
batteries work in a bunch of other tools, even my weedwacker, so it's not a
big deal.

Pagan

On 09/11/05 03:15 pm pe tossed the following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?

Cordless tools are going the computer inkjet printer route.

But the new inkjet printers that are cheaper than cartridges for the old
printer are in fact new models, so they may have refined the
manufacturing process and are now able to make them more cheaply.
Moreover, the cartridges that come with inkjet printers often have less
ink in them than the replacment cartridges (similarly for laser printers
and their toner cartridges).

But this is the same drill and the same battery, not a cheaper, flimsier
model.

Perce

On 09/11/05 06:55 pm Pagan tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?

I've found that older tools are much better made than the new stuff, which
is made as cheap, and with as much flimsy plastic, as possible. My old B&D
7.2v drill used to eat right through cinderblock. My newer B&D 18v drill
sometimes slips or gets stuck on wood, probably due to the crummy keyless
chuck, which makes it practically impossible to get a good grip on the bit.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find replacement battery packs for the old drill,
so it probably went to the donation pile with the rest of my junk. Had I
known I could have rebuilt it, I would have kept it.

Anyway, the newer drill is good for use as a screw and bolt driver, and the
batteries work in a bunch of other tools, even my weedwacker, so it's not a
big deal.

But this is the same drill and the same battery, not a cheaper, flimsier
model.

Perce

wrote in
oups.com:

I had that same experience quite a few years ago with a Milwaukee
driver/drill. Hadn't even used it that much and the battery went kaput
after a few years. It cost me like $70 for a new battery. When this
one goes, it will be time for a new/better drill.


My Makita 6095 drill's battery packs(9.6v) still only cost $29 at Harbor
Freight or Home Depot.

If you think about it,the batteries are probably the most costly part of
the drill,especially for higher voltages that have more cells per pack.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

pe wrote:

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:35:07 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:


A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?


Cordless tools are going the computer inkjet printer route.

King Gillette started it all over a hundred years ago. He sold his
safety razor for less than it cost to manufacture, and sometimes even
gave them away, but you'd have to buy his blades at a price which seemed
unreasonably high for what it took to make them.

http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/gillette.html

Low end laser printers are another example of that, but you can beat the
game by refilling the toner cartridges, which I do routinely for 5 laser
printers in our little office. I can get two and sometimes three refills
before the drum gives out, for about $5.00 worth of toner.

I refill our HP ink jet fax machine cartridges too, from bulk ink at a
cost of about $1.50 per refill.

I probably was born to do that because my dad used to resharpen his
Gillette "Blue Blades" by stropping them on the inside of a drinking
glass. :-)

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Jim Yanik wrote:
wrote in
oups.com:


I had that same experience quite a few years ago with a Milwaukee
driver/drill. Hadn't even used it that much and the battery went kaput
after a few years. It cost me like $70 for a new battery. When this
one goes, it will be time for a new/better drill.



My Makita 6095 drill's battery packs(9.6v) still only cost $29 at Harbor
Freight or Home Depot.

If you think about it,the batteries are probably the most costly part of
the drill,especially for higher voltages that have more cells per pack.


My extension cord cost about $10. I don't use cordless tools.

On 09/12/05 11:35 am Amun tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

I had that same experience quite a few years ago with a Milwaukee
driver/drill. Hadn't even used it that much and the battery went kaput
after a few years. It cost me like $70 for a new battery. When this
one goes, it will be time for a new/better drill.

My Makita 6095 drill's battery packs(9.6v) still only cost $29 at Harbor
Freight or Home Depot.

If you think about it,the batteries are probably the most costly part of
the drill,especially for higher voltages that have more cells per pack.

My extension cord cost about $10. I don't use cordless tools.

I have a drill that I inherited from my father, and he bought it used over
40 years ago.
Still takes on any job without problems.

Never have a problem finding a 120v outlet to plug the cord in either.
g

I do have a 120V drill as well, but I'd rather carry a cordless drill up
a ladder than have scores of feet of extension cord draped all over the
place.

Perce

You can check eBay for spare batteries, look carefully at their
feedback to make sure you aren't getting a bum replacement.-Jitney

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:40:31 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

wrote:

On 09/12/05 11:35 am Amun tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

I had that same experience quite a few years ago with a Milwaukee
driver/drill. Hadn't even used it that much and the battery went
kaput
after a few years. It cost me like $70 for a new battery. When this
one goes, it will be time for a new/better drill.

My Makita 6095 drill's battery packs(9.6v) still only cost $29 at
Harbor
Freight or Home Depot.

If you think about it,the batteries are probably the most costly part
of
the drill,especially for higher voltages that have more cells per
pack.

My extension cord cost about $10. I don't use cordless tools.

I have a drill that I inherited from my father, and he bought it used
over
40 years ago.
Still takes on any job without problems.

Never have a problem finding a 120v outlet to plug the cord in either.
g

I do have a 120V drill as well, but I'd rather carry a cordless drill up
a ladder than have scores of feet of extension cord draped all over the
place.

Standing in a puddle of water with a corded drill can give you a cheap
thrill.
I certainly wouldn't pay someone by the hour if they showed up on my work
site
with only corded drills.
That's like a guy showing up to do framing with only a handsaw.


With a corded drill you learn pretty quick not to stand in puddles.
And I've seen guys with a handsaw do faster & better work than some people
can do with a skillsaw.
g

The cordless stuff has it's uses, but those batteries are just plain dumb
with so many different non-interchangeable types.
If the batteries were standard, more of us might grow to like them more.


AMUN

wrote in
ups.com:

You can check eBay for spare batteries, look carefully at their
feedback to make sure you aren't getting a bum replacement.-Jitney



Buying ANYTHING off Ebay,make sure you get insurance and/or registered
shipping;USPS lost (misdelivered) a package of SDRAM modules I ordered,they
"confirmed delivery" (PRIORITY Express Mail)but don't know WHERE it was
delivered to. I don't have it,so it wasn't delivered to MY postal box.

Preferably use UPS,DHL,or Fed-X.
At least they record delivery signatures,and make up for their mistakes.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:42:47 +0000, John‰]*
************************************************** *************
wrote:

In article , SQLit
wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?

Perce

Marketing better to sell new products than parts for the old. True in almost
every industry.
I take my batteries back to Batteries Plus and have then rebuilt with a
warranty. Costs less than a new battery.

If you really want to go nuts look at the battery terminals and positions.
Some companies like Sears change styles and types at the drop of a hat.
Making the new batteries incompatible with the old drills.

That's why I stopped buying those cheap crappy Crapsman cordless tools.
I paid $39.95 on sale for a 14.4 screwgun with two batteries, charger
and case. When one battery quickly died I discovered they want $59.95
for a replacement, so I waited for another sale and bought another
complete kit for $39.95. It didn't last much longer.

While most companies have pretty much standardized the 12V, 14.4V and
18V tools, Sears wants to sell you a 15.785V tool so you are stuck
buying the batteries from them.

1) I thought you said you bought a 14.4V tool, above.
2) There is no such thing as a 15.785V battery
3) Because everyone makes a 14.4V tool, doesn't make the batteries in any
way interchangeable.

No more crappy Crapsman cordless tools for me.

Drop the "cordless" (and even "crappy") in that sentence, and I agree.

--
Keith

I would never buy anything from Harbor Frieght Tools.
I had a Ryobi 18v cordless set that I ran into the ground. I did
however get my money's worth out of it. When it was new I ran the
battery down out of the box, charged it up and used it until it was
dead again. This is supposed to increase the life of the battery no
matter what size. You should never let your battery overcharge or
leave it out in the sunlight. When your done working at the end of
the day unplug it. If you have trouble remembering - get a cheap
timer. 12 bucks for a timer is better than paying for two new
batteries. Also, dont use cordless for mixing anything thick like
morter. And don't use for drilling into brick unless its a cordless
hammer drill.

When my Ryobi Sh!t the bed I just took it back to Home Dump and they
gave me a replacement charger and two new batteries. I it used almost
everyday for a year before my batteries started to fail. Unfortunately
I dropped the drill off a 28ft ladder and the casing split. I decided
to upgrade to Rigid 18 volt hammerdrill combo. It has rapid charging
and you can charge two at a time. The quality is far better than any
cordless I've used and they detach a lot easier. Feel free to respond
or correct me anyone.

I have yet to use the cordless finish nailer from any manufacturer.
Has anyone had a chance to? I'd like to know the pros and cons.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:59:35 +0000, tsunamisam wrote:

I would never buy anything from Harbor Frieght Tools.

Snob. They have some decent tools and certainly some crap. I've bought
cases of throw-away brushes from them, and a couple of crap cordless
drills. They work, but not well enough to bother with, next to my PC and
Makita. I recently bought a *cheap* 10" slider. Though not a Hitachi,
it's reasonable, for 1/5 the cost. Even if it were only good enough for
frameing (it's better than that), it was worth the money.

I had a Ryobi 18v cordless set that I ran into the ground. I did
however get my money's worth out of it.

Ryobi is on my list of "never buy again". I have one of thier circular
saws. While it has been quite servicable and a *huge* step up form the
Crapsman it replaced, it's still junk compared to a PC or Makita. It'll
soon be replaced.

When it was new I ran the
battery down out of the box, charged it up and used it until it was dead
again. This is supposed to increase the life of the battery no matter
what size.

Wrong! You should *never* run a multi-cell NiCd (or NiMH) battery flat.
You will reverse-charge any weak cell and ruin the pack. When you *first*
notive any lack of torque or RPM, stop and change batteries. You're about
to destroy them and there isn't much energy left anyway.

You should never let your battery overcharge or leave it out
in the sunlight. When your done working at the end of the day unplug it.

Sorta. It's fine to let it charge overnight, if it's going to be used
again tomorrow. Most chargers will shut off when the battery is topped
anyway. No, it's not a good thing to cook batteries, but decent chargers
don't do this. Crap like Dustbusters and "rechargeable" NiCd flashlights
do. Avoid them.

If you have trouble remembering - get a cheap timer. 12 bucks for a
timer is better than paying for two new batteries. Also, dont use
cordless for mixing anything thick like morter. And don't use for
drilling into brick unless its a cordless hammer drill.

Don't use it for any continuous operation. The batteries will not like
it.

When my Ryobi Sh!t the bed I just took it back to Home Dump and they
gave me a replacement charger and two new batteries. I it used almost
everyday for a year before my batteries started to fail. Unfortunately I
dropped the drill off a 28ft ladder and the casing split. I decided to
upgrade to Rigid 18 volt hammerdrill combo. It has rapid charging and
you can charge two at a time. The quality is far better than any
cordless I've used and they detach a lot easier. Feel free to respond or
correct me anyone.

Home Despot will do pretty much what the customers wants. They'll ship it
back to the manufacturer anyway. I'm not sure why you'd want a hammer
drill though.

I have yet to use the cordless finish nailer from any manufacturer. Has
anyone had a chance to? I'd like to know the pros and cons.

Not I, but would certainly like to hear from anyone who has too!

--
Keith

It's an intelligence test. You passed.

Where should we mail your diploma?

More seriously, I really don't know. Must be someone in the company doesn't
have much intelligence. I had the same problem about 15 years ago with
Schlage deadbolts. Cost more for the inside cylinder assembly than to just
buy the entire lock.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
A year or two back I bought a Black & Decker 9.6V cordless drill that
came with two batteries. I don't recall how much I paid for it. Several
months back, when I wanted a new battery for it, I found that for very
little more than the price of a battery alone I could buy a whole new
drill and battery (but only one battery, not the two that I got
originally). A couple of days ago I noticed that Lowes had the drill
with *two* batteries for exactly the same price as for a battery alone!

Can anybody explain the logic of this?

Perce