Scenario:

Have an inground pool. Have a well with a submersible pump. Both are wired
to two 20amp breakers so that they can be turned off close to the pool -
underground wiring.

All was fine until ~ 1 month ago. Now, when the circuit for the well pump
is turn ON, and you take a dip in the pool, you will get a electrical
tingling sensation. Turn the breaker OFF and there is no charge.

Could there be a break in the insulation of the underground romex between
the pump and the breaker which caused the entire ground to "charge" and
therefore "charge" the pool water?

It's OK as long as the breaker is tuned off - but to me, it looks like I
will be digging an 18" trnech the 20 feet or so to the well with a new line.

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Scenario:

Have an inground pool. Have a well with a submersible pump. Both are
wired to two 20amp breakers so that they can be turned off close to the
pool - underground wiring.

All was fine until ~ 1 month ago. Now, when the circuit for the well pump
is turn ON, and you take a dip in the pool, you will get a electrical
tingling sensation. Turn the breaker OFF and there is no charge.

Could there be a break in the insulation of the underground romex between
the pump and the breaker which caused the entire ground to "charge" and
therefore "charge" the pool water?

It's OK as long as the breaker is tuned off - but to me, it looks like I
will be digging an 18" trnech the 20 feet or so to the well with a new
line.

I would call an electrician before you end up as "Steve Soup"......

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Scenario:

Have an inground pool. Have a well with a submersible pump. Both are
wired
to two 20amp breakers so that they can be turned off close to the pool -
underground wiring.

All was fine until ~ 1 month ago. Now, when the circuit for the well pump
is turn ON, and you take a dip in the pool, you will get a electrical
tingling sensation. Turn the breaker OFF and there is no charge.

Could there be a break in the insulation of the underground romex between
the pump and the breaker which caused the entire ground to "charge" and
therefore "charge" the pool water?

You bet

It's OK as long as the breaker is tuned off - but to me, it looks like I
will be digging an 18" trnech the 20 feet or so to the well with a new
line.

Probably need to do redo both motors correctly. GFCI breakers are required
by the electrical code in certain conditions.


Who ever wired your pool or the well pump in romex certainly did you a lot
of favors during installation.

"SQLit" wrote in message
news

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Scenario:

Have an inground pool. Have a well with a submersible pump. Both are
wired
to two 20amp breakers so that they can be turned off close to the pool -
underground wiring.

All was fine until ~ 1 month ago. Now, when the circuit for the well
pump
is turn ON, and you take a dip in the pool, you will get a electrical
tingling sensation. Turn the breaker OFF and there is no charge.

Could there be a break in the insulation of the underground romex between
the pump and the breaker which caused the entire ground to "charge" and
therefore "charge" the pool water?

You bet

It's OK as long as the breaker is tuned off - but to me, it looks like I
will be digging an 18" trnech the 20 feet or so to the well with a new
line.

Probably need to do redo both motors correctly. GFCI breakers are required
by the electrical code in certain conditions.


Who ever wired your pool or the well pump in romex certainly did you a lot
of favors during installation.


Thanks - I was just looking for confirmation of my suspicions.

The new breakers are actually GFCI - the romex to the pool is a new run as
is the power from the house panel. The line to the well pump probably
shoudl have been replaced when we did the pool - hindsight.

The previous homeowners was an idiot - they put the pool in and ran the
power to the pump 1/2 inch undergraound along a sidewalk and patched it into
teh 20 amp service breaker for the downstairs heatpump - just plugged it in.

I had the whole thing re-routed (I don't mess with electricity) and done
properly. Just missed replacing the run out to the well pump.

The new breakers are actually GFCI
When you turn the GFCI breaker off you don't feel the tingle? Then it
cannot be leaking current to ground, or the GFCI would trip. (You do test
your GFCIs don't you...)

Even before you said that I questioned your story. Lets say there is a nick
in the insulation. Why would current flow through the ground, through the
pool, through you, and then back into the ground; when simply going to
ground (avoiding the pool and you) is so much more direct? "Charging the
entire ground" would trip the breaker, even if the GFCI was defective.
I don't know what your problem is (and you should have called an electrician
long ago!) but it is not a nick in the well pump circuit, unless that wire
goes through the pool.

Steve posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

Scenario:

Have an inground pool. Have a well with a submersible pump. Both are wired
to two 20amp breakers so that they can be turned off close to the pool -
underground wiring.

All was fine until ~ 1 month ago. Now, when the circuit for the well pump
is turn ON, and you take a dip in the pool, you will get a electrical
tingling sensation. Turn the breaker OFF and there is no charge.

Could there be a break in the insulation of the underground romex between
the pump and the breaker which caused the entire ground to "charge" and
therefore "charge" the pool water?

It's OK as long as the breaker is tuned off - but to me, it looks like I
will be digging an 18" trnech the 20 feet or so to the well with a new line.




I would not nessarily blame the wiring itself. The pump itself could be
shorted. Please post what the resolution was...
--

Tekkie

it would take a massive ground fault to electrify the whole pool. A
large groumnd fault should trip a GFI.

Something is strange.

But if you feel a shock int he water, it is VERY DANGEROUS.

Get someoine who knows what they are doing to look at it.

Mark

Mark wrote:
it would take a massive ground fault to electrify the whole pool. A
large groumnd fault should trip a GFI.

Something is strange.

But if you feel a shock int he water, it is VERY DANGEROUS.

Get someoine who knows what they are doing to look at it.

Mark


is it really all that dangerous? A little tingling never killed nobody.
Plus you are surrounded by water which the electricity will happily
pass through just as fast as your body. of course if you happen to swin
up to and touch the source of the leak, then you will have a problem.

I'm actually having a hard time thinking of a scenario that would
significantly energize the pool without triping the GFCI or the breaker.

I suppose we should ask if the pool is actually grounded?



--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D

is it really all that dangerous? A little tingling never killed nobody.

Well, I guess we would never find out if they guy that got killed felt
just "a litle tingling" or not, cuz he's dead.

I'm actually having a hard time thinking of a scenario that would
significantly energize the pool without triping the GFCI or the breaker.

Here's an easy one; supply line. He said that both GFCI breakers were
near the pool. If the previous owner is as stupid as it seems, the
incoming line that supplies power to the two breakers is probably not
GFCI at the main panel. A nick in this line would energize the pool if
it were close enough, or if the soil types were such that the path
through ground water or pipes to the pool then to ground was best.

-Kevin

"kevin" wrote in message
ups.com...
is it really all that dangerous? A little tingling never killed nobody.

Well, I guess we would never find out if they guy that got killed felt
just "a litle tingling" or not, cuz he's dead.

I'm actually having a hard time thinking of a scenario that would
significantly energize the pool without triping the GFCI or the breaker.

Here's an easy one; supply line. He said that both GFCI breakers were
near the pool. If the previous owner is as stupid as it seems, the
incoming line that supplies power to the two breakers is probably not
GFCI at the main panel. A nick in this line would energize the pool if
it were close enough, or if the soil types were such that the path
through ground water or pipes to the pool then to ground was best.

-Kevin



As the OP is already sure the previous owners were nuts.

Don't discount anything.

First,.... GFI breaker or outlets should NEVER be used with motors.
(well pumps and swimming pool filters both use them)
They don't work well.
The starting currents in motors can fry the electronics in a GFI

And a GFI should NEVER be used to fix a "no ground" problem.

And NO gfi is foolproof, they can go bad, and often do and the test button
won't always show a problem


I've seen the same idiots who fixed fuses that kept blowing by shoving
pennies in.
Move into breakers and fill the handles with crazy glue to keep them from
tripping.

Make sure all the motors & pump bodies are properly grounded.
swap breakers with known good units.

And don't forget to check any "pool lights" as well

And don't swim in the pool if it tingles, or at least leave a note for your
next of kin to let us know what the final outcome was.

AMUN