"Ignoramus25850" wrote in message
...
I have been playing with using relays of various kinds, as well as
contactors. I already built 2 phase converters, and a remote switch,
for instance. I have a few 90A and 75A contactors and solid state
relays and mag starter buttons and whatnot.

Here's what I have been thinking about. I have a 7 kW Onan DJE
generator that I have for emergencies. I want it to power my entire
house in emergencies (I know that I cannot run AC and some other
devices while under generator power).

Not a DIY job. Get a UL listed transfer switch, have a licensed electrician
install it and get it inspected.

riggghhttt. anyone with a bit of sense can install a transfer switch.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

ATP* wrote:

Not a DIY job. Get a UL listed transfer switch, have a licensed electrician
install it and get it inspected.

"Steve Spence" wrote in message
...
riggghhttt. anyone with a bit of sense can install a transfer switch.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

I've seen plenty of simpler electrical jobs screwed up or just poorly
executed by people with more than a bit of sense. In any case, it has to be
listed and inspected per the local utility regulations.

ATP* wrote:

Not a DIY job. Get a UL listed transfer switch, have a licensed
electrician install it and get it inspected.

maybe in your community, but not in mine. I wired my whole house, panels
and entrance. The power company only dropped to the meter on the pole.
that was the end of it. I did the rest.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

ATP* wrote:


I've seen plenty of simpler electrical jobs screwed up or just poorly
executed by people with more than a bit of sense. In any case, it has to be
listed and inspected per the local utility regulations.


ATP* wrote:


Not a DIY job. Get a UL listed transfer switch, have a licensed
electrician install it and get it inspected.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:51:51 -0400, Steve Spence
wrote:

maybe in your community, but not in mine. I wired my whole house, panels
and entrance. The power company only dropped to the meter on the pole.
that was the end of it. I did the rest.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

ATP* wrote:


I've seen plenty of simpler electrical jobs screwed up or just poorly
executed by people with more than a bit of sense. In any case, it has to be
listed and inspected per the local utility regulations.


ATP* wrote:


Not a DIY job. Get a UL listed transfer switch, have a licensed
electrician install it and get it inspected.



In Washington state you are allowed to wire your own house. It then
must pass inspection. After that you must live in it for five years
before you can sell it. This is done to prevent bad wiring done by
people who are building spec homes. Not that everybody who builds a
spec home is going to do a bad job. Just that some people will skimp
and not use qualified people to do the wiring.
ERS

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:51:51 -0400, Steve Spence
wrote:
In Washington state you are allowed to wire your own house. It then
must pass inspection. After that you must live in it for five years
before you can sell it.

Strange! Here a homeowner can pull a permit to do most anything. Then the
job must pass inspection just like anything else and you are done with the
process.

Vaughn

Eric R Snow wrote:
Not a DIY job. Get a UL listed transfer switch, have a licensed
electrician install it and get it inspected.



In Washington state you are allowed to wire your own house. It then
must pass inspection. After that you must live in it for five years
before you can sell it.

That seems like a pretty harsh regulation. Here I believe you can
legally wire your own house, but you're supposed to have it inspected
afterwards, and certainly before you sell it. But we also have a stupid
new law which means that only qualified electricians can buy consumer
units. Most people with time and good practical skills, but little
money, aren't going to pay an electrician to wire their workshop.
They'll find a consumer unit from a friend, or a demolition site, or a
dumpster. It just drives work underground. Another sad example of
European over-regulation!

Chris

Excellent suggestion.

Ig, you come across as an enterprising and resourceful individual. I
would suggest focusing your talents on something that is not so
dangerous to...

- your finances
- your power company employees

If this homebrew setup would fail with fatal results for someone, you
will be on the hook litigation wise. There are reasons why sometimes we
spend the money on UL listed products, have a licensed electrician do
the work and have inspections....all to cover us legally.It only takes
one fatal failure to wipe you and your family out financially.

Let know how you end up doing it.

TMT

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:51:51 -0400, Steve Spence
wrote:
ATP* wrote:

I've seen plenty of simpler electrical jobs screwed up or just poorly
executed by people with more than a bit of sense. In any case, it has to be
listed and inspected per the local utility regulations.

Some of the most screwed up DIY installations I've ever had to
rework were done by engineers and (literally) 'Rocket Scientists' who
thought they knew better. I think half the parts the former owner
used for the additions at this house (before we bought it) "fell off
the loading dock" at Rocketdyne in the '60's, though I can't prove it.

maybe in your community, but not in mine. I wired my whole house, panels
and entrance. The power company only dropped to the meter on the pole.
that was the end of it. I did the rest.

In EVERY community I know of, the electrical utility won't tie onto
a power panel and provide a meter unless the panel has been inspected
and approved as safe by /somebody/ referred to as the Authority Having
Jurisdiction or AHJ.

If there isn't a city building inspector, the job falls back to the
county or parish level. If it's on state or federally owned property,
then their inspector has the authority. The power utility doesn't
want the legal liability if someone gets hurt or killed, so they
insist on it.

Now after the AHJ has passed the installation, the utility has
connected the feed, and both parties are long gone, /then/ you can do
additional work without a permit, and cheat as much as you want, with
one gigantic caveat: As long as they never see it.

And if the AHJ comes back to check something else and sees you have
cheated, now you have a problem. They can (and will) force you to fix
it. If you don't, their ultimate recourse is to call the utility and
tell them to cut the feed and pull the meter, the installation is no
longer safe. Darkness and quiet quickly ensues. (*)

(* At least on things run from utility power, noting the crosspost.)

Except for mobile homes / manufactured housing in California, where
inspection of the meter pedestal and outside wiring is a city or
county responsibility like normal, but anything electrical inside or
on the coach itself is inspected by a State bureaucrat. Our local
mobile home inspector drives into Western LA County from Riverside,
where the closest office is.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

In article ,
Ignoramus11916 wrote:
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:37:16 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote:
Eric R Snow wrote:
Not a DIY job. Get a UL listed transfer switch, have a licensed
electrician install it and get it inspected.



In Washington state you are allowed to wire your own house. It then
must pass inspection. After that you must live in it for five years
before you can sell it.

That seems like a pretty harsh regulation. Here I believe you can
legally wire your own house, but you're supposed to have it inspected
afterwards, and certainly before you sell it. But we also have a stupid
new law which means that only qualified electricians can buy consumer
units. Most people with time and good practical skills, but little
money, aren't going to pay an electrician to wire their workshop.
They'll find a consumer unit from a friend, or a demolition site, or a
dumpster. It just drives work underground. Another sad example of
European over-regulation!

Christopher, what do you mean by a consumer unit?


Lets see how my grasp of european terms is..


consumer unit = Breaker panel (made of plastic, with DIN rails)

RCD = GFI (or something very similar)

T+E = Twin+Earth = Romex

ring main = circuit fed from both ends (from the same breaker)





--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --

Eric R Snow wrote:
....
In Washington state you are allowed to wire your own house. It then
must pass inspection.

So far, so good...

...After that you must live in it for five years
before you can sell it. ...

How could they possibly enforce that?

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:30:58 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Eric R Snow wrote:
...
In Washington state you are allowed to wire your own house. It then
must pass inspection.

So far, so good...

...After that you must live in it for five years
before you can sell it. ...

How could they possibly enforce that?
Beats me. When I wired my shop I learned all sorts of regulations. But
hardly any reasons. In WA the inspection is done by Labor &
Industries. They come out when they come out. And do hold up projects.
My father-in-law is a licensed electrician. I flew him up to WA to
help with the wiring to make sure it all done to code. He told me that
in Santa Clara county in CA the inspectors have 24 hours to show up
and do the inspection. If they don't then the wiring can be covered
and is considered to be up to code. BTW, just because a house is wired
by a "professional" and has passed inspection it doesn't mean that the
wiring will be done correctly. My last house had all the wiring in the
garage and laundry room backwards. So all the white wires were hot and
the black wires neutral. The problem was in a junction box where
someone had connected the wires in reverse. This box had undisturbed
mud and paint on it from the original drywall. So the wiring had not
been changed by any previous owners.
ERS

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:51:51 -0400, Steve Spence
wrote:
ATP* wrote:

I've seen plenty of simpler electrical jobs screwed up or just poorly
executed by people with more than a bit of sense. In any case, it has to be
listed and inspected per the local utility regulations.

Some of the most screwed up DIY installations I've ever had to
rework were done by engineers and (literally) 'Rocket Scientists' who
thought they knew better. I think half the parts the former owner
used for the additions at this house (before we bought it) "fell off
the loading dock" at Rocketdyne in the '60's, though I can't prove it.


Local electric utility linemen do some pretty screwed up stuff as well.
The house I'm in now had a utility lineman as an owner previously and
I'm still correcting his mess.

Little things like 240v feeds to the shop wirenutted and left exposed at
ground level, as in individual THHN comes out through hole in brick,
wirenut to more THHN and then disappear underground. The same 240v feed
to the shop is fed from separate 20a and 30a single pole breakers in the
damn panel.

All of the mess to the shop and indeed the crappy stab-lock main panel
are on the agenda to be replaced with a good 200a QO panel for the
house, a 100a QO for the shop, all new wire to the shop in some proper
sch 40 PVC underground to the shop, etc. I figure it's a good weekend
project, not counting pre-trenching in the conduit.

There are plenty of other less significant things that I've been fixing
along the way as well. I do however like the four steel light poles he
used to support the carport roof along side the shop and the two others
with HID lights (mismatched of course) that light the yard.

Pete C.

I hear this all the time. High wire janitors are not electricians or
engineers.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:51:51 -0400, Steve Spence
wrote:
ATP* wrote:

I've seen plenty of simpler electrical jobs screwed up or just poorly
executed by people with more than a bit of sense. In any case, it has
to be
listed and inspected per the local utility regulations.

Some of the most screwed up DIY installations I've ever had to
rework were done by engineers and (literally) 'Rocket Scientists' who
thought they knew better. I think half the parts the former owner
used for the additions at this house (before we bought it) "fell off
the loading dock" at Rocketdyne in the '60's, though I can't prove it.


Local electric utility linemen do some pretty screwed up stuff as well.
The house I'm in now had a utility lineman as an owner previously and
I'm still correcting his mess.

Little things like 240v feeds to the shop wirenutted and left exposed at
ground level, as in individual THHN comes out through hole in brick,
wirenut to more THHN and then disappear underground. The same 240v feed
to the shop is fed from separate 20a and 30a single pole breakers in the
damn panel.

All of the mess to the shop and indeed the crappy stab-lock main panel
are on the agenda to be replaced with a good 200a QO panel for the
house, a 100a QO for the shop, all new wire to the shop in some proper
sch 40 PVC underground to the shop, etc. I figure it's a good weekend
project, not counting pre-trenching in the conduit.

There are plenty of other less significant things that I've been fixing
along the way as well. I do however like the four steel light poles he
used to support the carport roof along side the shop and the two others
with HID lights (mismatched of course) that light the yard.

Pete C.