DIYbanter - Electrical Wiring Hot Water Heater

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 16:18:35 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 14:08:31 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 03:09:13 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 01:17:05 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:13:09 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:27:24 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 22:40:49 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:11:36 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 06:38:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:42:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 01:07:46 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:05:32 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:36:04 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 1:00:00 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 15:33:13 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 12/16/18 3:16 PM, trader_4 wrote:

I'm using 10 gauge wire. Purchased 20 feet 4 x 10 gauge. Hot, hot, neutral
and ground. $1.96 per foot to be installed into 1/2" PVC conduit as the main
part of the run is outdoors. Metal Clad can be used outdoor only if protected.
PVC can be used indoors, outdoors and underground.

I thought I was missing something there. On another thing that got no response,
did you see where he said he bought the wire already and it's 3 conductors?
He said he's doing the WH and a 20A receptacle. I don't see how you can do
that to code. The problem is with 3 conductors, it's an Edison circuit.
So, it has to have a double pole breaker. If he uses a 20A double pole,
then he's not code compliant with the WH, though we agree that it's so close
to being legal, that it wouldn't bother us. If he uses a 25A double pole,
then he's Kosher with the WH, but then he has a single 20A receptacle on a
25A circuit, which isn't allowed either. Hope he can take that wire back
and get 4 conductor, unless I'm missing something. Funny how these simple
things can get complicated.

Four conductors.
Quote: Purchased 20 feet 4 x 10 gauge Hot, hot, neutral and ground.

What is he going to connect the 4th wire to?
This is a 120v water heater.
A hot, a neutral and a ground.

I guess you didn't read his post or the couple where I commented on it.
He said he was installing one 20A receptacle too. That lead to the problems
with breaker sizing an Edison circuit to support both. And now that I think
about it, maybe there is a more fundamental problem? Can you use an Edison
circuit to support both a hard wired load like a water heater and a
receptacle? I've only seen them used for receptacles.

There is nothing wrong with Multiwire circuits feeding one receptacle
and one piece of fixed in place equipment. He can also protect it with
a handle tied pair of breakers and they do not have to be the same
size. As has been stated several times a 20a breaker would work here.
I would not have a serious problem with 12ga wire but he already
bought the 10.
What is he using for a disconnect if this is not cord and plug?
Well, cord and plug would be EXTREMELY out of the ordinary,

Not for 120 volt units.

In fact, for a small 120V WH, a cord and plug might be the preferred
solution instead of a disconnect. If it's easily accessible and doesn't
need a disconnect, I'd hard wire it. If it's in a location that needs
a disconnect and isn't so accessible, eg under a sink, I'd use a cord
and plug which makes everything easier.

The one we had at the store came in the box with a cord and plug. The
problem for us was that it was a 5-20 plug and we didn't have any 5-20
receptacles. We did have a 20a circuit but it had a 5-15 receptacle
on it. I changed the plug. (it was rented space and I wasn't going to
screw with their circuit)
If it was a "small" unit that comes with a cord - plug it in - to
the correct outlet. The only "small" "plug-in" units I can find are
1440 watt 15 amp.(2.5 gallon POU)

A 1500 watt would have a 20 amp plug on it if it was available as a
plug-in - a 6 gallon, most likely. Anything bigger would need 30 amp
plug -never seen one up here in Canada -

Bet YOURS was a 1500 watt 6 gallon unit - right GF?

The OP only said his was a 2000 watt unit. I'm guessing 15 OR 20
GALLON - and not supplied with a plug.

Electrical code 422.16(A)
110.3

it will be in the listed instructions if the appliance is intended to
be cord and plug connected, most larger appliances would not meet
this.

You can read the code here.
https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/Phoe...stallation.pdf

If the device does not come with a cord - it is not generally
"listed" for plug and cord connection.

This water heater was 1920w and it did come with a factory 5-20 (20a)
plug. (late 80s)
I doubt the manufacturing tolerance on these elements is +/- 5% so
this is just a labeling issue.
Likely no longer available due to code changes. Not available up
here anyway.

What code change would that be?
don't know of any - mabee just better compliance? Don't know how you
were able to buy nonconforming equipment, or if you or someone else
modified it contrary to code. That practice appears to be rampant in
the USA. Even the president figures laws don't apply to him.

Having been in the computer manufacturing buisiness during that time
period I KNOW the majority of our competition was not compliant to
FCC,DOT, ULC, or CSA standards of the time. Didn't matter if they were
American, CXanadian or Taiwanese. If they were Mainland Chinese the
almost certainly were not.

They were sold with impunity.
Doesn't make it right,

We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on compliance, inspections,
certifications, etc, even getting "special inspections" from Ontario
Hydro for custom and one-off models to make them legal.

There is nothing non-compliant about a 1920 watt appliance cord with a
5-20 plug on it. (even in the 2017 code)
There is if it is not "listed" with the cord.
In most cases that means "supplied with" the cord.

No that just means they submitted that model for testing and it passed
with a cord. As long as that testing exists you can add a cord to that
model in the field. It happens all the time with disposals and dish
washers. Theoretically you need the "kit" from the manufacturer but if
that was enforced, selling plugs would be illegal.
Nothing is technically "listed" if you change the plug.