Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
"John R Weiss" wrote
"Caliban" wrote... When purchasing a house (assume it's a cash payment, with no mortgage): Is who pays for the title search usually a negotiable point in the contract? "Everything is negotiable." However, if you want to expedite the process, it is wise to follow the local customs regarding allocation of major closing costs. Since the title search benefits YOU most of all, it is reasonable that you pay for it. This makes sense. Thank you for the other suggestions. To anyone: Let me add that I am looking at three houses. The oldest is 15 years old. The youngest is 7 years old, and the original owner is selling it. (I have paperwork from the county tax office confirming this.) All are in a large neighborhood development less than 20 years old. I see on the Internet that title companies advertise examining the title for the last, say, 40 or 60 years. I am not convinced (yet) that whoever does the title search has much to do at all for either of these three homes, especially for the 7-year-old, original owner house. Are there generally only fixed prices for title searches? Or would it be worthwhile to shop around for someone who takes into account the very little legal research needed (I think; could be missing something) necessary, especially if I make an offer on the 7-year-old, original owner house? |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
It doesn't matter if the house is only 7 years old. The Insurance Department
of the state you live in dictates how many years back the title insurance company has to search in order to provide title insurance. Here in Pennsylvania, we have to search back 60 years in order to get title insurance. Title insurance is a must when buying real estate. Don't be caught without it. The title search is one thing of the puzzle. Let's say the current owners of the property come to closing sign the Deed and all the closing papers. The attorney or title company gives the sellers their check and the buyers move into their house. About, a year later the buyers get a letter from an attorney representing the wife, who claims her husband brought his girlfriend to closing and they purportrated a fraud. Not what? If you have title insurance you file a claim, and the title insurance company pays the wife off, the title insurance company goes after the husband and his girlfriend prosecutes them if they can be found. However, if you don't have title insurance your **** out of luck. You either pay the wife off, or you loose the house. Caveat Emptor-Let the buyer beware. "Caliban" wrote in message arthlink.net... "John R Weiss" wrote "Caliban" wrote... When purchasing a house (assume it's a cash payment, with no mortgage): Is who pays for the title search usually a negotiable point in the contract? "Everything is negotiable." However, if you want to expedite the process, it is wise to follow the local customs regarding allocation of major closing costs. Since the title search benefits YOU most of all, it is reasonable that you pay for it. This makes sense. Thank you for the other suggestions. To anyone: Let me add that I am looking at three houses. The oldest is 15 years old. The youngest is 7 years old, and the original owner is selling it. (I have paperwork from the county tax office confirming this.) All are in a large neighborhood development less than 20 years old. I see on the Internet that title companies advertise examining the title for the last, say, 40 or 60 years. I am not convinced (yet) that whoever does the title search has much to do at all for either of these three homes, especially for the 7-year-old, original owner house. Are there generally only fixed prices for title searches? Or would it be worthwhile to shop around for someone who takes into account the very little legal research needed (I think; could be missing something) necessary, especially if I make an offer on the 7-year-old, original owner house? |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
"Caliban" wrote in
arthlink.net: When purchasing a house (assume it's a cash payment, with no mortgage): Is who pays for the title search usually a negotiable point in the contract? In my area (Illinois), the buyer pays for title insurance. What does a title company do for the money paid to it? Would a real estate attorney paid to do a title search do the same thing? Who really knows? :-) They supposedly research the archives for title transfers and related legal documents, and verify that there are no unaccounted for encumberances on the title, outstanding lawsuits, unsatisfied leins, etc. Anything that prevents the seller from granting a clear title to the buyer. How much does title insurance cost? Depends on the area and the house. I think it's based on the selling price in most areas. Are there ever fairly good reasons not to purchase title insurance? (Sarcasm will be laughed at and then ignored. :-) ) As far as I know, a mortgage lender will always require a title insurance policy in their name. If you, as a buyer, want to pay for an additional policy that protects you, that's an option. In my area, few people seem to purchase a buyer's policy. I think that records are kept well enough these days that title problems are relatively rare, but they certainly do occur. A title policy in your name would, in theory, cover your actual expenses/losses should a claim be made against your title. However, if it turns out that you don't have a clear title to your house, it doesn't guarantee that you won't lose it, just that your losses can be recouped. It's still a big, ugly, expensive mess, however. What are some steps to take to prevent a title company from ripping a buyer off with extraneous, inappropriate fees? (I already plan to ask for a complete breakdown of the title fees.) For what extraneous, inappropriate fees should I keep my eyes peeled? In my experience, you pick a title company, they give you a number, you write a check, and things move forward. Title searches and insurance usually only run a few hundred dollars, and, as far as a house purchase goes, don't really make much of a dent in the bottom line cost of the deal. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
"Caliban" wrote...
Let me add that I am looking at three houses. The oldest is 15 years old. The youngest is 7 years old, and the original owner is selling it. (I have paperwork from the county tax office confirming this.) All are in a large neighborhood development less than 20 years old. I see on the Internet that title companies advertise examining the title for the last, say, 40 or 60 years. I am not convinced (yet) that whoever does the title search has much to do at all for either of these three homes, especially for the 7-year-old, original owner house. What was the disposition of the land prior to the time it was subdivided and developed? Yes, title searches and insurance are, in part, a "scam" to perpetuate a business. What business does not have an analogous "scam"? You can either go with the program or accept the risks of bucking it. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
Caliban wrote in message
arthlink.net... To anyone: Let me add that I am looking at three houses. The oldest is 15 years old. The youngest is 7 years old, and the original owner is selling it. (I have paperwork from the county tax office confirming this.) All are in a large neighborhood development less than 20 years old. I see on the Internet that title companies advertise examining the title for the last, say, 40 or 60 years. I am not convinced (yet) that whoever does the title search has much to do at all for either of these three homes, especially for the 7-year-old, original owner house. Are there generally only fixed prices for title searches? Or would it be worthwhile to shop around for someone who takes into account the very little legal research needed (I think; could be missing something) necessary, especially if I make an offer on the 7-year-old, original owner house? The age of the house has nothing to do with it... how old is the land? The point is, the property has a chain of title. Construction merely adds to the potential for clouds on title like liens. Not buying title insurance is the most foolish thing you can do in a real estate transaction. Something else to consider is resale. Title companies don't like dealing with properties that have a lapse in insurance. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:AYHVa.15079$uu5.2265@sccrnsc04... "Caliban" wrote... Let me add that I am looking at three houses. The oldest is 15 years old. The youngest is 7 years old, and the original owner is selling it. (I have paperwork from the county tax office confirming this.) All are in a large neighborhood development less than 20 years old. I see on the Internet that title companies advertise examining the title for the last, say, 40 or 60 years. I am not convinced (yet) that whoever does the title search has much to do at all for either of these three homes, especially for the 7-year-old, original owner house. What was the disposition of the land prior to the time it was subdivided and developed? Yes, I agree that's still a concern. I'm inclined to believe that since it's a huge development, a claim made based on some fact before it was developed applies to all the homeowners in this huge development, not just me, so we'd pool our resources. But of course that means I'm assuming and therefore taking a risk, which may be imprudent when I can spare a lot of potential pain for a few hundred dollars. Yes, title searches and insurance are, in part, a "scam" to perpetuate a business. What business does not have an analogous "scam"? You can either go with the program or accept the risks of bucking it. All true. :-) Thanks, all for your responses to date. I am thinking about what has been said. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
"JD" wrote
snip interesting comments Something else to consider is resale. Title companies don't like dealing with properties that have a lapse in insurance. Thanks especially for this point. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
"John Wilson" wrote
It doesn't matter if the house is only 7 years old. The Insurance Department of the state you live in dictates how many years back the title insurance company has to search in order to provide title insurance. Here in Pennsylvania, we have to search back 60 years in order to get title insurance. Title insurance is a must when buying real estate. Don't be caught without it. The title search is one thing of the puzzle. Let's say the current owners of the property come to closing sign the Deed and all the closing papers. The attorney or title company gives the sellers their check and the buyers move into their house. About, a year later the buyers get a letter from an attorney representing the wife, who claims her husband brought his girlfriend to closing and they purportrated a fraud. Not what? If you have title insurance you file a claim, and the title insurance company pays the wife off, the title insurance company goes after the husband and his girlfriend prosecutes them if they can be found. However, if you don't have title insurance your **** out of luck. You either pay the wife off, or you loose the house. Caveat Emptor-Let the buyer beware. Fair enough. And the houses I am looking at do tend to look like those divorcees inhabit for a short-term... Good example. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:09:41 GMT, someone wrote:
... Protect your wallet & your financial future! Email me at .... Yes yes, don't let antone else get the better of you. Let HIM do it. ;-) -v. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:29:17 -0500, someone wrote:
What does a title company do for the money paid to it?... This varies very widely by state. In some states, the "title company" acts as an escrow agent, buyers and sellers might not even use attorneys, and the parties never sit down face to face in the same room. In other states a "title company" only searches titles and issues title policies through attorneys (only) who are its designated sales agents. There are various other combinations of services and duties. In my state, attorneys are customarily responsible for searching and certifying title for buyers (even if another person physically does it). As a result, malpractice insurance for real estate attorneys is very costly, because though there are few successful claims, they are potentially huge. The only claim (which lost) that I had personal knowledge of, was a buyer who tried to sue years later, in a dispute over what effect an easement actually had and whether their lawyer had properly disclosed it to them. (I helped defend the lawyer being sued). Reading the long list of pitfalls for closing attorneys is one of the reasons I do not do closings at all (I never did many, just on request), even though many people think it must just be easy money. It is when it goes right, but when it doesn't the crap flies, and I was not doing enough to be confident that it would average out properly. -v. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:37:52 GMT, "John R Weiss"
wrote: "Caliban" wrote... Let me add that I am looking at three houses. The oldest is 15 years old. The youngest is 7 years old, and the original owner is selling it. (I have paperwork from the county tax office confirming this.) All are in a large neighborhood development less than 20 years old. I see on the Internet that title companies advertise examining the title for the last, say, 40 or 60 years. I am not convinced (yet) that whoever does the title search has much to do at all for either of these three homes, especially for the 7-year-old, original owner house. What was the disposition of the land prior to the time it was subdivided and developed? The farm we sold a few years ago has an abstract that goes all the way back to when the first private owner proved up on his homestead. Between then and when we sold it, it was sold, willed, divided, reassembled, was held in trust for a minor heir, became a revenent's (widow's) portion, got added to another piece of land, got divided again along a new boundary, and a few other things. There was at least one suit over who was to be executor of a will and how much he was going to be paid and another that was basically over "mother always loved me best". Oh, and there were at least two agreements with the US gov't on land banks and soil conservation (the conservation agreement was ours; it was connected to getting a grant to tile the waterways and do some terracing). This is a lot of action for land that was first acquired around 1850. The actions seemed to happen either every forty years or every forty days, in clusters. As it happens, we know descendants of about half the folks involved in all this, most of them connected with the more recent events. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all." Anonymous US fighter pilot |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
Caliban wrote:
When purchasing a house (assume it's a cash payment, with no mortgage): What does a title company do for the money paid to it? Would a real estate attorney paid to do a title search do the same thing? It's possible the attorney could do it better, but it depends on the quality of the work done by the title company. One of my sisters worked for a real estate attorney who did a lot of work for supposedly experienced real estate agents and title companies who screwed up their paperwork and had to get it fixed. As a result, everyone is our family has included a consult with a real estate attorney in our real estate purchases. The cost of an experienced attorney to check out the paperwork before closing (and if necessary, to attend closing as well) isn't outrageous and for us was well worth the additional peace of mind. Are there ever fairly good reasons not to purchase title insurance? (Sarcasm will be laughed at and then ignored. :-) ) I didn't bother when I purchased our family home from my mom, since obviously I was fully aware there were no liens or impediments with the title since the property had come into the family. But if I'd bought property from anyone else, I'd've bought title insurance. What are some steps to take to prevent a title company from ripping a buyer off with extraneous, inappropriate fees? (I already plan to ask for a complete breakdown of the title fees.) For what extraneous, inappropriate fees should I keep my eyes peeled? Everyone should call the County Records department for the county the property is located in, and ask the clerks there for a listing of all the paperwork to legally record the transaction. All the clerks I've dealt with have been very knowledgeable and helpful. A lot of the documents can be prepared by yourself with the (free) assistance of the county clerks, then reviewed by your attorney. Or your attorney can prepare the paperwork for you, but it'll cost more. Once you know what is required for the transaction to take place, you can compare that to the title company's list of fees and have them explain anything that the county didn't tell you was required. You can decide what documents, if any, you feel capable of preparing yourself, and tell the title company you'll prepare those yourself. You can also compare their overall fee to what your attorney would charge for doing it for you. I had the title company p.o.'d at me when I bought the house since I only allowed them to process certain documents on behalf of the seller (my mom) and insisted on handling the rest myself. They tried retaliating by claiming I'd improperly prepared the paperwork. A quick conference call between myself, the title company, the county clerk, and my lawyer stopped that nonsense in its tracks and we closed with no problems. Though they did then try telling me I'd have to pay the filing fee, to which I replied that I was heading down to the County office immediately after closing and handling the filing myself. I ended up allowing them to do it after they waived the filing fee. They didn't make a lot of money from our family sale. I have been studying these subjects on the internet and have begun to query a buyer's agent about them. But I find others' personal experiences are always helpful. I got a free initial consult with a real estate attorney before I even initiated the home purchase. He gave me advice on how to handle it myself and also advised me of his fees for handling the transaction on my behalf. I ended up having him check over all the paperwork prior to closing for $75.00. So I would encourage you to discuss your options not only with a buyer's agent but with an experienced lawyer as well. HellT |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
Thanks for sharing. It's all very interesting.
I have visited the County Records department (technically I think it was the tax department, but they're on the same floor where I am) once already, to get the latest tax valuations of the three homes at which I'm looking. (The differences are helpful to know, IMO.) Like your experience with this department, mine was good, too. Am I reading you correctly when I conclude you paid the Title Company esssentially only for a Title search? Thanks also to others who have replied since my last post. All are noted and helpful. "Hell Toupee" wrote Caliban wrote: snip but noted What are some steps to take to prevent a title company from ripping a buyer off with extraneous, inappropriate fees? (I already plan to ask for a complete breakdown of the title fees.) For what extraneous, inappropriate fees should I keep my eyes peeled? Everyone should call the County Records department for the county the property is located in, and ask the clerks there for a listing of all the paperwork to legally record the transaction. All the clerks I've dealt with have been very knowledgeable and helpful. A lot of the documents can be prepared by yourself with the (free) assistance of the county clerks, then reviewed by your attorney. Or your attorney can prepare the paperwork for you, but it'll cost more. Once you know what is required for the transaction to take place, you can compare that to the title company's list of fees and have them explain anything that the county didn't tell you was required. You can decide what documents, if any, you feel capable of preparing yourself, and tell the title company you'll prepare those yourself. You can also compare their overall fee to what your attorney would charge for doing it for you. I had the title company p.o.'d at me when I bought the house since I only allowed them to process certain documents on behalf of the seller (my mom) and insisted on handling the rest myself. They tried retaliating by claiming I'd improperly prepared the paperwork. A quick conference call between myself, the title company, the county clerk, and my lawyer stopped that nonsense in its tracks and we closed with no problems. Though they did then try telling me I'd have to pay the filing fee, to which I replied that I was heading down to the County office immediately after closing and handling the filing myself. I ended up allowing them to do it after they waived the filing fee. They didn't make a lot of money from our family sale. I have been studying these subjects on the internet and have begun to query a buyer's agent about them. But I find others' personal experiences are always helpful. I got a free initial consult with a real estate attorney before I even initiated the home purchase. He gave me advice on how to handle it myself and also advised me of his fees for handling the transaction on my behalf. I ended up having him check over all the paperwork prior to closing for $75.00. So I would encourage you to discuss your options not only with a buyer's agent but with an experienced lawyer as well. |
Title Search & Title Insurance Questions
Interesting site, even if it is by a company undoubtedly paid for by title
companies and with, ahem, self-interests. ;-) Today I learned that where I am title insurance costs about 1% of the home value. My jaw hit the ground, as I was unprepared for this. Slowly I'm coming around to accepting the high cost: Racket. Capitalism. Business. Life. Stinks sometimes but for god's sake never forget to count the blessings. :-) Not that this will keep me from fighting tooth and nail the legal industry on many counts. :-) "Ovid" wrote Try reading he http://www.titleanswers.com/horror.shtml Don't be cheap. Buy the insurance. It is the best investment you will probably never need. I bought a house in march and paid for it gladly. -O Let us know how it goes for you! "Caliban" wrote in message arthlink.net... When purchasing a house (assume it's a cash payment, with no mortgage): Is who pays for the title search usually a negotiable point in the contract? What does a title company do for the money paid to it? Would a real estate attorney paid to do a title search do the same thing? How much does title insurance cost? Are there ever fairly good reasons not to purchase title insurance? (Sarcasm will be laughed at and then ignored. :-) ) What are some steps to take to prevent a title company from ripping a buyer off with extraneous, inappropriate fees? (I already plan to ask for a complete breakdown of the title fees.) For what extraneous, inappropriate fees should I keep my eyes peeled? I have been studying these subjects on the internet and have begun to query a buyer's agent about them. But I find others' personal experiences are always helpful. |
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