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Choosing a Toilet
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:16:43 -0700, "John Weiss"
jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote: From Terry Love's site: Since you perpetually hawk this Terry Love website (which I have never heard of before), I decided to take a look at it. You have got to be kidding me. Just from the two snippets that you quoted, I expected an unprofessional and biased web site, but nothing like what I saw. Look at the first page. In that table of recommendations, one thing might jump out at you: he's got a bunch of Toto toilets listed and a mix of several other brands. Almost all of the non-Toto toilets have at least one negative comment about them. Not a single Toto toilet has anything negative listed about it. Then, I went to his forum. Once again, posting after posting that drives people toward Toto. There is no objectivity to this web site at all. This Terry Love is a bozo who made a web site that is apparently nothing short of a Toto sales site, since he also sells the products he recommends (a VERY bad sign). Anybody can make a web site like that, but it is harder to fool a savvy consumer. In this modern world of phony advocate web sites and company shills trolling the newsgroups, readers have to be very careful about the recommendations that they read. Consumer Reports has decades upon decades of reliable product evaluations that are performed with scientific methodologies. They DON'T focus on a single brand, like Terry Love does. Even when I don't agree with Consumer Reports' recommendations, it is usually because they placed a higher value on some product aspect that I didn't care about. That issue is fixed by the fact that they tell you WHAT aspects of the product they evaluated, HOW they evaluated it, and the results of that evaluation. So, you can pick and choose which features are important to you and find the best performer for the features you want. Sometimes I go with the top choice, but sometimes I go with the second or third. Never would I go for #10, which is what the Toto rated. Consumer Reports doesn't sell the products that they evaluate, so they don't have a reason to tilt the results. They go out of their way to maintain their reputation of integrity. That is why I would trust the recommendations of Consumer Reports and merely smirk at the recommendations of Terry Love. That site is a joke! -Chris |
Choosing a Toilet
"Chris" wrote...
Since you perpetually hawk this Terry Love website (which I have never heard of before), I decided to take a look at it. You have got to be kidding me. Just from the two snippets that you quoted, I expected an unprofessional and biased web site, but nothing like what I saw. "Perpetually hawk"?!? Let's see... I found it when I was shopping for toilets about 2-3 years ago. I found it valuable in my search. I have mentioned it a couple times before, always in response to someone's query for info. For the record, I don't know the guy and have never bought anything from him, and have NEVER recommended anyone buy anything from him. Unprofessional?!? Dunno how you came to that... He's a plumbing contractor, and states that very clearly on his site. He's licensed, bonded, & insured, and has no complaints listed on the state of WA licensing or the BBB sites. He lists references to other plumbers on the web. More prominent than the ratings on the "toilet reports" page is an alphabetical list of all major toilet mfgrs and their web links, as well as a number of other useful links. He clearly explains the basis of his subjective and objective (e.g., MaP testing) ratings. Biased? Probably -- no, DEFINITELY true! He is very apparently biased toward toilets that work. Look at the first page. In that table of recommendations, one thing might jump out at you: he's got a bunch of Toto toilets listed and a mix of several other brands. Almost all of the non-Toto toilets have at least one negative comment about them. Not a single Toto toilet has anything negative listed about it. Then, I went to his forum. Once again, posting after posting that drives people toward Toto. There is no objectivity to this web site at all. Here your own bias is showing. There are several negative comments in the customer reviews of the Toto Drake, Ultramax, and Aquia. He has good comments and no negatives on the Gerber Ultraflush and Caroma Caravell. There is a combination of objectivity and subjectivity on the site. This Terry Love is a bozo who made a web site that is apparently nothing short of a Toto sales site, since he also sells the products he recommends (a VERY bad sign). Anybody can make a web site like that, but it is harder to fool a savvy consumer. Hmmm... I would be very wary of a vendor that did NOT sell the products he recommends! He sells a multitude of brands and models. Since it is unlikely that anyone will order from him via the web unless they live between Bothell and Bellevue, WA, and since he provided the reviews to ANYONE -- not just [potential] customers, there is NO conflict of interest here. To the contrary, it is provided as an educated, expert opinion from someone who sells and services a wide variety of toilets. In this modern world of phony advocate web sites and company shills trolling the newsgroups, readers have to be very careful about the recommendations that they read. Yep! There is nothing phony or shillish about this one, though. Besides, you can take his advice or leave it -- no pressure! Consumer Reports has decades upon decades of reliable product evaluations that are performed with scientific methodologies. They DON'T focus on a single brand, like Terry Love does. Consumer Reports also has an increasing trend toward evaluations that are less scientific and more error-prone. This trend is accompanied by a trend toward marketing tactics that approach the "sleaze" they decry in other companies. CR is a good organization, but they are not perfect, infallible, or omniscient. |
Choosing a Toilet
John~* ****
Like any other household appliance, you get what you pay for. In the case of Toto that you present, you're probably right. In the general sense, it's more correct to say that you don't get what you don't pay for. -- Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html |
Choosing a Toilet
mm wrote:
I made the opposite mistake. When I was 55, I bought a 25 year roof. Should have bought longer. The heck you say. I'm not going out that soon. I'll be at my 150th birthday party, dancing on a table with scantily-clad women, when an airplane crashes into the building and takes me out. -- Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html |
Choosing a Toilet
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:53:22 -0500, clifto wrote:
mm wrote: I made the opposite mistake. When I was 55, I bought a 25 year roof. Should have bought longer. The heck you say. I'm not going out that soon. I'll be at my 150th birthday party, dancing on a table with scantily-clad women, when an airplane crashes into the building and takes me out. I was hoping for 120, but I'll settle for 90. |
Choosing a Toilet
Chris wrote:
This Terry Love is a bozo who made a web site that is apparently nothing short of a Toto sales site, since he also sells the products he recommends (a VERY bad sign). I know a worse sign: someone who sells some products but recommends others. Either he doesn't like you and wants you to buy crap, or he sells crap and doesn't want you buying it and getting angry at him. That is why I would trust the recommendations of Consumer Reports and merely smirk at the recommendations of Terry Love. That site is a joke! -Chris Good luck and God bless. I made a lot of money for a lot of years, servicing the frequently-broken televisions that people bought because of CR's recommendations. To this day I use CR to find out which stuff NOT to buy: the stuff they rate highly. -- Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html |
Choosing a Toilet
Chirac wrote:
If your fanny doesn't fit on the toilet seat don't buy the toilet. Our toilet seat is too small for our toilet. We have a Briggs and can't find a seat that fits. For that matter, we can't find any other parts for it that fit, either. It does flush well, though. It took two expert toilet-cloggers to stop it up those two times (over five years). Yes, it's the low water usage kind. -- Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html |
Choosing a Toilet
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:28:17 -0700, "John Weiss"
jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote: CR is a good organization, but they are not perfect, infallible, or omniscient. Isn't it funny how you are the only one who suggested they were. Their continuing saving grace is how their detractors can never name any widely-available source of information that comes close to their good track record. They are simply the best source of consumer information that is available to the general public. Nobody else goes to such detail. Nobody else refuses all advertisements from the companies whose products are being evaluated. Nobody else covers such a wide range of consumer products. You stick to supporting your shill site. Any company who needs that kind of support isn't worth considering for my purchases. There will always be a ready supply of stupid customers who will fall for it, but there are plenty of intelligent consumers who can immediately see the lack of value in Mr. Love's recommendations. Chris |
Choosing a Toilet
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:19:48 -0500, clifto wrote:
I made a lot of money for a lot of years, servicing the frequently-broken televisions that people bought because of CR's recommendations. Sure ya did. And I'll bet that none of the products CR didn't like ever showed up in the shop. Ain't lyin' amazingly convenient. To this day I use CR to find out which stuff NOT to buy: the stuff they rate highly. Which is about as smart as using the online sexual offender list for finding a babysitter. Good luck with that. Chris |
Choosing a Toilet
Anyway, it looks like the Eljer Titan is going to deserve some investigation. It's not easy to test a toilet in the showroom! Larry the Cable Guy had no problem with it. |
Choosing a Toilet
Any assistance from someone who has recently replaced their toilet would be appreciated. For whatever it's worth, I replaced one with a Cadet III from American Standard - elongated with the elevated seat and was very impressed with it so I've now replaced two more. I can't recall ever having to re-flush and I really appreciate the height although one of the replacements was the shorter version for my wife - she felt like her feet were dangling. I'm sure others have had good success with other brands but this one has sure worked for me. |
Choosing a Toilet
On 11 Mar 2007 04:02:03 -0700, "Michael B"
wrote: Forget the pressurized tank stuff. There was a bunch of them put in for water conservation, but there was a distressing failure rate. You want an excellent flush, do what I did. I've got my tank on a shelf over 2 feet above the commode. That's a 2" pipe fitting in the bottom of the tank, and I connected it to the commode with one of those plumbing fittings that go into the inside of the opening and as you tighten it, it presses its outer rubber ring outwards to snug up. No, I don't care about it being quiet, I want it to do its job quickly and efficiently. And since I didn't need to use American Standard's tank, I got one incredibly cheap for size and configuration (whoever makes Tank 3412, in Mexico). And I use a Korky Original flapper. Quick flick for yellow, longer for brown. On Mar 11, 3:02 am, Deke wrote: Ebay is your friend. The seller there ship the newer toilets at a cost less than you buy it for at home depot. Myself wants a tall model with a pressurized tank and huge pipes and oversize seat. Post picture. |
Choosing a Toilet
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:26:44 -0500, Luke Howett Fitzhugh
wrote: On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 00:04:00 GMT, John~* ************************************************* ************** wrote: The Rolls-Royce of toilets is the Toto. Yes, they are pricey, but if you can afford it, it's the last toilet you will ever buy. You can look them over at http://www.totousa.com/consumer_landing.asp and even find a dealer in your area. You wanted modern features, so be sure and look over the section on "washlets", but don't you dare show momma or you are doomed. Like any other household appliance, you get what you pay for. That is one of those snappy sayings that I never believed. If anyone believes that statement, then I have a $200 Thousand Ford Escort to sell you. The Toto certainly looks advanced, but I didn't know what a 'washlet' was. It's a stealth bidet. I'd have to warn my guests, or risk getting slapped. Sadly, from the looks of it, Toto is out of my price range. I will have to stick with those items stocked at my local Lowe's Home Center. The Toto (and the Gerber) really are worth the extra $$ if you are looking to avoid problems, particularly if you have only one toilet in your house. I'm an American Standard Cadet kinda person right now, and that's just because 1) it fits my budget, and 2) I have the energy and strength to deal with clearing it every once in a while. Otherwise, I'd be buying one of these babies and never thinking again about my personal waste removal. As John already said, you really do get what you pay for. |
Choosing a Toilet
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:32:50 GMT, KLS wrote:
The Toto (and the Gerber) really are worth the extra $$ if you are looking to avoid problems, particularly if you have only one toilet in your house. The reason why that doesn't work for me is my experience with moderately-priced toilets. The one I'm replacing has worked perfectly for years, and it is a plain Jane American Standard. It hasn't clogged in all of that time. I'm only replacing it because it has been cracked (twice) and become leaky and creaky. From my experience, average toilets only clog every four years or so. Even if the Toto was better with clogs (and I am convinced that it is not) it would not be worth the extra cost. The Toto is way overpriced, and its performance doesn't match its cost. I think that buying the most expensive product is the lazy man's way of attempting to get good quality. I'd rather research the products and buy the one that performs the best. Maybe you SOMETIMES get what you pay for, but in this case, another wise old saying applies. A fool and his money are soon parted. Luke |
Choosing a Toilet
In article , Luke Howett Fitzhugh writes:
First, I want a "comfort height" toilet. I'm in good physical condition now, but I am not getting any younger. A sprained ankle that I got from skiing reminded me that I should make my house more accessible in order to accommodate any physical issues that I may encounter during the next 30 years. As long as the changes don't make life more difficult for a healthy person, I will try to implement the changes as the projects occur. A comfort-height toilet seems innocuous enough. Anyone have any comments on tall toilets? We recently remodelled our bathrooms and bought comfort height toilets. I didn't really do any homework (I know, my bad) so I was a little surprised at the height. I'm 5'5" and when I sit on them, I can't put my feet flat on the floor, just the balls of my toes. Maybe I have short legs, I don't know. It was odd, but I'm getting used to it. (On the other hand, I was thinking about that, and even if I'd sat on one in the showroom, I would have had shoes on, which would have allowed me to keep my feet on the floor.) I don't have any other problems with them. I AM impressed by the flushing ability. We got the 1.5 gallon flushers, and despite using so little water, they do flush well. - Sharon "Gravity... is a harsh mistress!" |
Choosing a Toilet
Harry K wrote:
On Mar 10, 9:33 pm, Luke Howett Fitzhugh wrote: On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 23:07:27 -0500, mm wrote: So who's the one with the attitude? You? Looks like it to me. You explained very well _why_ you couldn't go with teh expensive item. Just why that should draw assholish responses is beyond me. Harry K Because he insulted the OP with a ridiculous statement: "if anyone believes that statement, then I have a $200 Thousand Ford Escort to sell you." Perhaps he believes all goodness comes from cheap stuff but "you get what you pay for" does turn out to be true 99% of the time. |
Choosing a Toilet
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:11:29 -0400, George
wrote: Perhaps he believes all goodness comes from cheap stuff but "you get what you pay for" does turn out to be true 99% of the time. Maybe he believes that those who believe in "you get what you pay for" foolishly think that a high price indicates high quality. A high price can be placed on a low-quality product, and there's a sucker born every minute. |
Choosing a Toilet
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:37:01 -0400, Mark K wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:11:29 -0400, George wrote: Perhaps he believes all goodness comes from cheap stuff but "you get what you pay for" does turn out to be true 99% of the time. Maybe he believes that those who believe in "you get what you pay for" foolishly think that a high price indicates high quality. A high price can be placed on a low-quality product, and there's a sucker born every minute. You could be right, especially some of the time, but they're not fighting about that. The problem was the insult, or iirc 2 of them. |
Choosing a Toilet
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:37:27 -0400, mm
wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:37:01 -0400, Mark K wrote: Maybe he believes that those who believe in "you get what you pay for" foolishly think that a high price indicates high quality. A high price can be placed on a low-quality product, and there's a sucker born every minute. You could be right, especially some of the time, but they're not fighting about that. The problem was the insult, or iirc 2 of them. Insult? Anybody who is that sensitive while participating on usenet had better invest in a big box of tissues. -Chris |
Choosing a Toilet
On Mar 14, 10:11 am, George wrote:
Harry K wrote: On Mar 10, 9:33 pm, Luke Howett Fitzhugh wrote: On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 23:07:27 -0500, mm wrote: So who's the one with the attitude? You? Looks like it to me. You explained very well _why_ you couldn't go with teh expensive item. Just why that should draw assholish responses is beyond me. Harry K Because he insulted the OP with a ridiculous statement: "if anyone believes that statement, then I have a $200 Thousand Ford Escort to sell you." Perhaps he believes all goodness comes from cheap stuff but "you get what you pay for" does turn out to be true 99% of the time. If he is so thin-skinned that he considers that an insult, maybe he should either up his tranq doseage or stay off usenet. Seeing the mindless 'you get what... ' annoys the hell out of me too and it is totally unhelpful. I don't think there is one person over 8 that hasn't heard it before. Harry K |
Choosing a Toilet
Chris wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:19:48 -0500, clifto wrote: I made a lot of money for a lot of years, servicing the frequently-broken televisions that people bought because of CR's recommendations. Sure ya did. And I'll bet that none of the products CR didn't like ever showed up in the shop. Ain't lyin' amazingly convenient. I wouldn't know. -- Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html |
Choosing a Toilet
An ADA compliant toilet has the necessary height and is an excellent
choice, even if you don't yet need the height. Every time my wife's elderly uncle visits us, he thanks us for getting the ADA compliant toilet. My recollection is that the ADA compliant model was not that more expensive than the standard model, at least not so that I didn't think it was worth it, but then I was remodeling the bathroom and wanted a quality finished product. I got a Toto because of their reputation for quality. Mine is not particularly quiet, but certainly not as noisy as others I have heard. The washlet is an option, and you can get the toilet without it. It can be active or not, even if you have it installed, but once you use one, you will almost certainly continue to use it. The only problem with the washlet is that you need an electrical outlet nearby, which is pretty rare in US bathrooms, but certainly not impossible to install if you are handy. Luke Howett Fitzhugh wrote: On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 00:04:00 GMT, John~ wrote: The Rolls-Royce of toilets is the Toto. Yes, they are pricey, but if you can afford it, it's the last toilet you will ever buy. You can look them over at http://www.totousa.com/consumer_landing.asp and even find a dealer in your area. You wanted modern features, so be sure and look over the section on "washlets", but don't you dare show momma or you are doomed. Like any other household appliance, you get what you pay for. That is one of those snappy sayings that I never believed. If anyone believes that statement, then I have a $200 Thousand Ford Escort to sell you. The Toto certainly looks advanced, but I didn't know what a 'washlet' was. It's a stealth bidet. I'd have to warn my guests, or risk getting slapped. Sadly, from the looks of it, Toto is out of my price range. I will have to stick with those items stocked at my local Lowe's Home Center. Luke |
Choosing a Toilet
On Mar 12, 6:08 am, (Tom) wrote:
Anyway, it looks like the Eljer Titan is going to deserve some investigation. It's not easy to test a toilet in the showroom! Larry the Cable Guy had no problem with it. Anyway, it looks like the Eljer Titan is going to deserve some investigation. It's not easy to test a toilet in the showroom! Larry the Cable Guy had no problem with it. Nor young unsupervised children. TMT |
Choosing a Toilet
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Choosing a Toilet
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