"A. Jacobs" wrote:

We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone
3. laptop computer battery charging
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.
Your comments and suggestions please.

"A. Jacobs" wrote:

We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone
3. laptop computer battery charging
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner
for
the laptop computer
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.
Your comments and suggestions please.

For God's sake .... just go to Home Depot and buy a Coleman
6250 watt generator for $499-$599 and you'll be able to
watch TV, keep the refrigerator running and you can read
and use the computer. Don't make this so complicated! If
you run out of gas, syphon it from your car.

KM

In article , ignoramus26409
@NOSPAM.26409.invalid says...
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:19:51 -0400, wrote:
For God's sake .... just go to Home Depot and buy a Coleman
6250 watt generator for $499-$599 and you'll be able to
watch TV, keep the refrigerator running and you can read
and use the computer. Don't make this so complicated! If
you run out of gas, syphon it from your car.

until the inevitable moment when that POS generator breaks at the
worst moment..

i


Naturally, it won't break when it is not running.

Keep the unit maintained and keep up with a regular test routine and it
is certainly better than no generator at all.

Jim

In article , ignoramus26409
@NOSPAM.26409.invalid says...
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:20:19 GMT, James Beck wrote:
In article , ignoramus26409
@NOSPAM.26409.invalid says...
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:19:51 -0400, wrote:
For God's sake .... just go to Home Depot and buy a Coleman
6250 watt generator for $499-$599 and you'll be able to
watch TV, keep the refrigerator running and you can read
and use the computer. Don't make this so complicated! If
you run out of gas, syphon it from your car.

until the inevitable moment when that POS generator breaks at the
worst moment..

i


Naturally, it won't break when it is not running.

Keep the unit maintained and keep up with a regular test routine and it
is certainly better than no generator at all.

You are right, it is better than no generator, but, unfortunately, not
reliable and not as usable. These cheap generators are designed to
look good, that's about all. The cheap parts in them normally fail
after a few hundred hours.

I had a generator like that at some point and hated every minute of
owning it. It was a 4 kW diesel powered Coleman generator. Impossible
to start in cold weather and enormously loud. All attempts to quiet it
down failed.

I sold the POS and am glad that I did. Now I have an old but
relatively little used 1800 RPM Onan diesel generator. The difference
is night and day.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

I had to restore it a bit, but that was easy. No engine rebuild etc,
just some control parts.

i

Oh, you definitely get what you pay for.
These days, if you have paid less than $800/5kW you probably bought a
light duty unit.

We had a V-Twin Onan 11kW gasoline unit that was used for 4 months out
of the year just about 24hrs (depends on when we wanted the A/C) a day 7
days a week for 15 years. Keep up with the PM schedule and they would
go forever. In fact, the only reason I don't have it now is because it
was stolen. Other than the battery going dead in the off season I can't
remember the unit being ACTUALLY broken, although hand cranking that guy
was NOT fun, but it did have a hand crank.

Fortunately my current unit only has to hold us over for the 7 or so
days each winter that our ice storms take down the lines.

For the average homeowner that has to deal with a day or two without
power, every other year or so, a Coleman would probably do. A nice
brushless generator with a decent engine is all most people would ever
need.

Jim

In misc.consumers.house Ignoramus26409 wrote:

You are right, it is better than no generator, but, unfortunately, not
reliable and not as usable. These cheap generators are designed to
look good, that's about all. The cheap parts in them normally fail
after a few hundred hours.

You may be correct, but sometimes a few hundred hours is good enough.

I bought a y2k return (the world didn't end after all!) Coleman generator
at Home Depot. In the 5 1/2 years I've owned it it, I've used it for less
than 36 hours. More than 1/3 that time was just running it for 15-20
minutes with a dummy load to make sure it still worked okay (after
ignoring it for several months).

For me a power outages of more than two hours only happen every couple of
years and generator is more about comfort (ie furnace, refrigerator, lights,
TV, washer/dryer, etc) than survival (ie medical equipment). It doesn't make
sense for me to invest in a high end generator that will die of old age
before it gets worn out. Usually when we loose power for long periods of
time its during an ice storm and my porch will keep the food cold and my
wood stove will keep half the house toasty warm (and the other half chilly,
but livable).

If I lived off grid, I'd probably have a pair of redundant slow speed diesel
generators. Since I'm near a town center a mile from an interstate highway
in the northeast US, and have enough 10 & 12 ga extension cords to reach
two neighbors (who also have cheap generators) what I have is plenty for me
(and the majority of suburbanites in the US).

James Beck wrote:

Naturally, it won't break when it is not running.

Keep the unit maintained and keep up with a regular test routine and it
is certainly better than no generator at all.

Jim

And don't run it with no load.
--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

James Beck wrote:

Naturally, it won't break when it is not running.

Keep the unit maintained and keep up with a regular test routine and it
is certainly better than no generator at all.

Jim

And don't run it with no load.

Is that the same as "Don't run it without a load?"

I'm sorry, but illiteracy just confuses the crap out of me.

Notan

"Notan" wrote ...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
And don't run it with no load.

Is that the same as "Don't run it without a load?"

I'm sorry, but illiteracy just confuses the crap out of me.

You appear to be confusing "illiteracy" with a commonly-
used electrical engineering term ("no load").

Richard Crowley wrote:

You appear to be confusing "illiteracy" with a commonly-
used electrical engineering term ("no load").

Thank you, Richard. In fact, the contractors just finished
installing a propane fueled backup system with automatic start and
transfer switch at my dad's house (He lives next door) about an hour ago
and the warning labels use the same wording.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Richard Crowley wrote:

You appear to be confusing "illiteracy" with a commonly-
used electrical engineering term ("no load").

Thank you, Richard. In fact, the contractors just finished
installing a propane fueled backup system with automatic start and
transfer switch at my dad's house (He lives next door) about an hour ago
and the warning labels use the same wording.

I stand corrected, although, have you read certain labels and instruction
manuals? Totally unintelligible! g

Notan

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:46:04 +0000, Ignoramus26409 wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:19:51 -0400,
wrote:
For God's sake .... just go to Home Depot and buy a Coleman 6250 watt
generator for $499-$599 and you'll be able to watch TV, keep the
refrigerator running and you can read and use the computer. Don't make
this so complicated! If you run out of gas, syphon it from your car.

until the inevitable moment when that POS generator breaks at the worst
moment..


Usually mechanical stuff breaks as a result of neglect or misuse.

As James Beck said, keep it in running condition, do your routine
perodic maintenance, and it will probably outlive even you.

Good Luck!
Rich

Notan wrote:

I stand corrected, although, have you read certain labels and instruction
manuals? Totally unintelligible! g

I've seen some truly wonderful Chinese examples recently.

Graham

JRC/NJR is usually a giggle for their data sheets too.

One of my favourites.....

" Featuring noiseless, higher gain bandwidth, high output
current and low distortion ratio, and it is most suitable not only
for acoustic electronic parts of audio pre-amp and active filter,
but also for the industrial measurement tools. It is also suitable
for the head phone amp at higher output current, and further
more, it can be applied for the handy type set operational
amplifier of general purpose in application of low voltage single
supply type which is properly biased of the low voltage source. "

http://www.njr.co.jp/pdf/ae/ae04056.pdf

In article ,
says...

Notan wrote:

I stand corrected, although, have you read certain labels and instruction
manuals? Totally unintelligible! g

I've seen some truly wonderful Chinese examples recently.

Graham

JRC/NJR is usually a giggle for their data sheets too.

One of my favourites.....

" Featuring noiseless, higher gain bandwidth, high output
current and low distortion ratio, and it is most suitable not only
for acoustic electronic parts of audio pre-amp and active filter,
but also for the industrial measurement tools. It is also suitable
for the head phone amp at higher output current, and further
more, it can be applied for the handy type set operational
amplifier of general purpose in application of low voltage single
supply type which is properly biased of the low voltage source. "

http://www.njr.co.jp/pdf/ae/ae04056.pdf


I still remember the chinglish explanation of the difference between
PORTA on the masked MC68705P3 and the windowed part :

"The optional PORTA pullup option on the masked version is not optional
on the erasable version."

So is it always there or always not there?

HMMMMMMMMM

Even the local support guy wasn't sure about that one.

"Notan" wrote in message
...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Richard Crowley wrote:

You appear to be confusing "illiteracy" with a commonly-
used electrical engineering term ("no load").

Thank you, Richard. In fact, the contractors just finished
installing a propane fueled backup system with automatic start and
transfer switch at my dad's house (He lives next door) about an hour
ago
and the warning labels use the same wording.

I stand corrected, although, have you read certain labels and
instruction
manuals? Totally unintelligible! g

Actually the term may be more correctly: "no-load"
since it is a two-word term, rather than bad grammar.

Richard Crowley wrote:

"Notan" wrote in message
...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Richard Crowley wrote:

You appear to be confusing "illiteracy" with a commonly-
used electrical engineering term ("no load").

Thank you, Richard. In fact, the contractors just finished
installing a propane fueled backup system with automatic start and
transfer switch at my dad's house (He lives next door) about an hour
ago
and the warning labels use the same wording.

I stand corrected, although, have you read certain labels and
instruction
manuals? Totally unintelligible! g

Actually the term may be more correctly: "no-load"
since it is a two-word term, rather than bad grammar.

Now *that* sounds a bit better.

Thanks!

Notan

In sci.electronics.design Rich Grise wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:46:04 +0000, Ignoramus26409 wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:19:51 -0400,
wrote:
For God's sake .... just go to Home Depot and buy a Coleman 6250 watt
generator for $499-$599 and you'll be able to watch TV, keep the
refrigerator running and you can read and use the computer. Don't make
this so complicated! If you run out of gas, syphon it from your car.

until the inevitable moment when that POS generator breaks at the worst
moment..


Usually mechanical stuff breaks as a result of neglect or misuse.

As James Beck said, keep it in running condition, do your routine
perodic maintenance, and it will probably outlive even you.

Good Luck!
Rich



Or really ****ty design.
I was wondering why the generator I purchased was using a LOT of fuel.
The tank had a porous weld sealing the tank shut, and was leaking in 10
places.
Plus, simply designing down to a cost, using pistons/cylinders that
have no hope of going beyond a couple of hundred hours is a problem in the
very cheap units.

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Notan wrote:

I stand corrected, although, have you read certain labels and
instruction
manuals? Totally unintelligible! g

I've seen some truly wonderful Chinese examples recently.

Graham

JRC/NJR is usually a giggle for their data sheets too.

One of my favourites.....

" Featuring noiseless, higher gain bandwidth, high output
current and low distortion ratio, and it is most suitable not only
for acoustic electronic parts of audio pre-amp and active filter,
but also for the industrial measurement tools. It is also suitable
for the head phone amp at higher output current, and further
more, it can be applied for the handy type set operational
amplifier of general purpose in application of low voltage single
supply type which is properly biased of the low voltage source. "

http://www.njr.co.jp/pdf/ae/ae04056.pdf

That's .jp = Japanese web site, not Chinese.

"A. Jacobs" wrote:

snip

I've seen some truly wonderful Chinese examples recently.

Graham

JRC/NJR is usually a giggle for their data sheets too.

One of my favourites.....

" Featuring noiseless, higher gain bandwidth, high output
current and low distortion ratio, and it is most suitable not only
for acoustic electronic parts of audio pre-amp and active filter,
but also for the industrial measurement tools. It is also suitable
for the head phone amp at higher output current, and further
more, it can be applied for the handy type set operational
amplifier of general purpose in application of low voltage single
supply type which is properly biased of the low voltage source. "

http://www.njr.co.jp/pdf/ae/ae04056.pdf

That's .jp = Japanese web site, not Chinese.

They all look alike.

THE WEB SITES! What'd you *think* I was talking about? g

Notan

Notan wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Richard Crowley wrote:

You appear to be confusing "illiteracy" with a commonly-
used electrical engineering term ("no load").

Thank you, Richard. In fact, the contractors just finished
installing a propane fueled backup system with automatic start and
transfer switch at my dad's house (He lives next door) about an hour ago
and the warning labels use the same wording.

I stand corrected, although, have you read certain labels and instruction
manuals? Totally unintelligible! g

Notan

My favorite was an early panasonic service manual for a stereo
cassette deck that described how the reray logic worked. "If not reray
1, then reray 2 ..." I wish I still had it, because it was a laugh riot
for about six pages.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

According to James Beck :

Naturally, it won't break when it is not running.

The fuel might "break", or go bad. IIRC there was a recent
thread on this.

You might get a 1500W power inverter running off your car.
That will run a furnace blower or fridge or microwave. Or,
cook on a camp stove (outside the house).

You'll have to have the car running while drawing significant
power. Even then, it might run down the car battery.
However, it is a lot cheaper and probably more reliable.

In nospam writes:

You might get a 1500W power inverter running off your car.
That will run a furnace blower or fridge or microwave.

make that a _maybe_. There are two very serious issues
with common inverters:

a) they don't do well regarding "starting surges".
Many items, when turned on, pull a _lot_ more
power than once they're running.

b) inverters often give you "square wave"
alternating current. This can do nasty things
to many appliances, especially motors.

You'll have to have the car running while drawing significant
power. Even then, it might run down the car battery.

A separate self-contained jumper battery with cables
and handles is about $30. One of the best investments
you can make... It not only makes it easier
to start your own car when you've left the lights on,
but is also a lot, lot, more civilized when helping
someone else who needs a jump.




--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

I like this idea of separate 12VDC car battery. Its easy and cheap and
do-able.
Please tell me more how you do it? I assume its not mounted inside your car?
Do you convert output to AC and send power into your house? How?

"danny burstein" wrote in message news:dghpos$cf3$
A separate self-contained jumper battery with cables
and handles is about $30. One of the best investments
you can make... It not only makes it easier
to start your own car when you've left the lights on,
but is also a lot, lot, more civilized when helping
someone else who needs a jump.

1. Crunch the numbers; a separate car battery doesn't store
enough energy to run an inverter for very long. Also,
inverters tend to shut off if the input voltage falls below,
say, 10V. That protects the battery from discharging, but
prevents the inverter running off only a battery for long.

2. Only obsolete inverters produce a square wave. The current
technology gives a modified sine.

3. The starting current that motors draw is a real issue.
The inverters I was reading up on yesterday claimed that they
could supply a starting current twice their continuous
current. However, I wondered if that was conditional on
enough DC current being available w/o drawing down the supply
voltage too much.

4. I was unable to run a stand-up freezer on a 700W inverter,
even using a large gauge extension cord, with the car running,
and revving the engine. I haven't tried to power a fridge
yet.