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#1
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Power Requirements
Made several PCBs (digitally) and now looking at what power I'll need to
power them. Pretty simple boards, bunch of LEDs, resistors for those LEDs, relays, and switches. As I said, pretty simple. :-) I need to decide on voltage as well as the amperage requirement. This is my first project I've done entirely by myself so just looking for ideas. Do I need to add up the amperage requirement for each LED? (.020mA) and then the requirement for each Relay and then thats my requirement? Does this need to be done for the voltage? If each LED is 2VDC and .020mA and I have 10 does that mean I need 20VDC at .200mA or just 2VDC at .200mA? There is no amperage requirement for resistors, correct? Also the current will be flowing through 100feet of cable, I'm assuming I need to figure in resistance at that kind of length? Thanks for any help! |
#2
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:32:29 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote: Made several PCBs (digitally) and now looking at what power I'll need to power them. Pretty simple boards, bunch of LEDs, resistors for those LEDs, relays, and switches. As I said, pretty simple. :-) I need to decide on voltage as well as the amperage requirement. This is my first project I've done entirely by myself so just looking for ideas. Do I need to add up the amperage requirement for each LED? (.020mA) and then the requirement for each Relay and then thats my requirement? Does this need to be done for the voltage? If each LED is 2VDC and .020mA and I have 10 does that mean I need 20VDC at .200mA or just 2VDC at .200mA? There is no amperage requirement for resistors, correct? Also the current will be flowing through 100feet of cable, I'm assuming I need to figure in resistance at that kind of length? Thanks for any help! I don't want to decry your efforts concerning your venture with making your first pcb's but I make the observation that you seem to have tackled this back to front :-) When designing a pcb it is generally known beforehand what the circuit design will be and what components will be used. Only with this knowledge beforehand can you determine the component layout and what thickness and spacing requirements are for the copper tracks. Each pcb you design will be specific to the design project, except in the case you are producing a general purpose bredboarding type pcb. Usually, one doesn't make breadboarding pcb's these days except for special cases and in most cases using a protoboard is the way to go to settle on a final design. Only when the design is finalised do you design the pcb. Having said that, your brief description requiring driving of leds, relays and switches will be dependant upon the pcb layout. For example, if you have laid out the pcb so that the leds are in series then the voltage requirement to drive them will be higher than if you have arranged the leds to be driven in parallel. Also, depending upon the led colour, the voltage requirements will be different for each led colour. Then if you use high efficiency leds these require no more than 5mA for operation. If you get my drift, what I am saying is do things the right order - circuit design, prototype construction, pcb design, first-final build in that order. (In many cases the first-final build - as implied - will not be the last, except for the simplest designs. Good luck with your project. |
#3
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
I did pick out final components except for the relays. I'm not entirely
understanding how they are rated. I left room on the PCBs to accomidate most relays pins. I had a good idea of the voltage I wanted to use. I had selected 24vdc but was wondering if 12 or 18vdc would be enough. Basically I want a button that I push on a "control panel" to travel the 100ft to a relay which then turns on a 115vac supply. Like I said I'm having issues understanding the way relays are rated. Assuming I go with 24vdc I would need a relay with a coil rated at 24vdc and a N.O. switch that can handle 115vac at 10-20A, correct? All leds are either red or green and based on what I read are 2vdc at ..020mA. I do have 3-4 blue leds which I read at 4vdc and .040mA (if memory serves) Could you explain "in series" and "in Parallel." The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) Parallel would be having power go from one led to the other in a chain? Serial would be a home run track, back to power, for each led. In this case parallel is the way I did it. (with a resistor for each led) I didn't mean to imply that the PCBs are totally done. They are merely to the point where I can no longer put off relay selection. That all said, I don't doubt I'm doing things wrong and backwards, it is my first PCB from scratch. (I've repaired them at work) How about these: http://cgi.ebay.com/Tyco-Relays-SPST...QQcmdZViewItem "Ross Herbert" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:32:29 GMT, "SBFan2000" wrote: Made several PCBs (digitally) and now looking at what power I'll need to power them. Pretty simple boards, bunch of LEDs, resistors for those LEDs, relays, and switches. As I said, pretty simple. :-) I need to decide on voltage as well as the amperage requirement. This is my first project I've done entirely by myself so just looking for ideas. Do I need to add up the amperage requirement for each LED? (.020mA) and then the requirement for each Relay and then thats my requirement? Does this need to be done for the voltage? If each LED is 2VDC and .020mA and I have 10 does that mean I need 20VDC at .200mA or just 2VDC at .200mA? There is no amperage requirement for resistors, correct? Also the current will be flowing through 100feet of cable, I'm assuming I need to figure in resistance at that kind of length? Thanks for any help! I don't want to decry your efforts concerning your venture with making your first pcb's but I make the observation that you seem to have tackled this back to front :-) When designing a pcb it is generally known beforehand what the circuit design will be and what components will be used. Only with this knowledge beforehand can you determine the component layout and what thickness and spacing requirements are for the copper tracks. Each pcb you design will be specific to the design project, except in the case you are producing a general purpose bredboarding type pcb. Usually, one doesn't make breadboarding pcb's these days except for special cases and in most cases using a protoboard is the way to go to settle on a final design. Only when the design is finalised do you design the pcb. Having said that, your brief description requiring driving of leds, relays and switches will be dependant upon the pcb layout. For example, if you have laid out the pcb so that the leds are in series then the voltage requirement to drive them will be higher than if you have arranged the leds to be driven in parallel. Also, depending upon the led colour, the voltage requirements will be different for each led colour. Then if you use high efficiency leds these require no more than 5mA for operation. If you get my drift, what I am saying is do things the right order - circuit design, prototype construction, pcb design, first-final build in that order. (In many cases the first-final build - as implied - will not be the last, except for the simplest designs. Good luck with your project. |
#4
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 02:02:22 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote: I did pick out final components except for the relays. I'm not entirely understanding how they are rated. I left room on the PCBs to accomidate most relays pins. I had a good idea of the voltage I wanted to use. I had selected 24vdc but was wondering if 12 or 18vdc would be enough. Basically I want a button that I push on a "control panel" to travel the 100ft to a relay which then turns on a 115vac supply. Like I said I'm having issues understanding the way relays are rated. Assuming I go with 24vdc I would need a relay with a coil rated at 24vdc and a N.O. switch that can handle 115vac at 10-20A, correct? You could use any voltage you like depending upon what guage wire you use for the 100ft link. Generally any voltage from 12V - 24V would be quite suitable if you use twin conductor cable with conductors of 0.4mm (26AWG) diameter (or better) copper. All leds are either red or green and based on what I read are 2vdc at .020mA. I do have 3-4 blue leds which I read at 4vdc and .040mA (if memory serves) Could you explain "in series" and "in Parallel." The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) Parallel would be having power go from one led to the other in a chain? Serial would be a home run track, back to power, for each led. In this case parallel is the way I did it. (with a resistor for each led) Oh dear me.... are you sure you should be getting into a project involving 115Vac? If you don't understand what series and parallel connections for low voltage components such as leds then you could get yourself killed when playing around with lethal voltages and currents. Have you tried doing some basic research into the meaning of these terms? - Google is your friend... I would never connect leds of different colours in a series string because they all have different voltage requirements. I would only connect leds of the same colour in any individual series string. I didn't mean to imply that the PCBs are totally done. They are merely to the point where I can no longer put off relay selection. That all said, I don't doubt I'm doing things wrong and backwards, it is my first PCB from scratch. (I've repaired them at work) How about these: http://cgi.ebay.com/Tyco-Relays-SPST...QQcmdZViewItem It depends on what type of load you are planning to control with the relay output. That particular relay is only rated to switch 10A @ 250Vac into a resistive load. Also, it can only switch a maximum load of 280W. You would not use it to control an inductive load such as a 115Vac electric motor or pump. See full data sheet here http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/OJ-OJE.pdf What type of load are you intending to drive? |
#5
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
"Ross Herbert" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 02:02:22 GMT, "SBFan2000" wrote: I did pick out final components except for the relays. I'm not entirely understanding how they are rated. I left room on the PCBs to accomidate most relays pins. I had a good idea of the voltage I wanted to use. I had selected 24vdc but was wondering if 12 or 18vdc would be enough. Basically I want a button that I push on a "control panel" to travel the 100ft to a relay which then turns on a 115vac supply. Like I said I'm having issues understanding the way relays are rated. Assuming I go with 24vdc I would need a relay with a coil rated at 24vdc and a N.O. switch that can handle 115vac at 10-20A, correct? You could use any voltage you like depending upon what guage wire you use for the 100ft link. Generally any voltage from 12V - 24V would be quite suitable if you use twin conductor cable with conductors of 0.4mm (26AWG) diameter (or better) copper. Understood All leds are either red or green and based on what I read are 2vdc at .020mA. I do have 3-4 blue leds which I read at 4vdc and .040mA (if memory serves) Could you explain "in series" and "in Parallel." The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) Parallel would be having power go from one led to the other in a chain? Serial would be a home run track, back to power, for each led. In this case parallel is the way I did it. (with a resistor for each led) Oh dear me.... are you sure you should be getting into a project involving 115Vac? If you don't understand what series and parallel connections for low voltage components such as leds then you could get yourself killed when playing around with lethal voltages and currents. Have you tried doing some basic research into the meaning of these terms? - Google is your friend... Could you please explain series and parallel so I can verify what I have already researched and read on the subject instead of just saying that if I don't understand it I'm to stupid to deal with it? I would never connect leds of different colours in a series string because they all have different voltage requirements. I would only connect leds of the same colour in any individual series string. I didn't. I have three different colors but no colors are mixed with other colors. Both my red and green leds are all 2VDC and the 3 Blues are 4VDC. Technically I could connect the red and greens but I didn't. Every single LED in the system also has its own dedicated resistor. I'm not using one resistor for the entire string because (from what I researched) a led with slightly different requirements could burnout. This thing already has almost 100 resistors if that give you an idea of the LEDs required. I didn't mean to imply that the PCBs are totally done. They are merely to the point where I can no longer put off relay selection. That all said, I don't doubt I'm doing things wrong and backwards, it is my first PCB from scratch. (I've repaired them at work) How about these: http://cgi.ebay.com/Tyco-Relays-SPST...PCB_W0QQitemZ1 20060224418QQihZ002QQcategoryZ42897QQrdZ1QQssPageN ameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem It depends on what type of load you are planning to control with the relay output. That particular relay is only rated to switch 10A @ 250Vac into a resistive load. Also, it can only switch a maximum load of 280W. You would not use it to control an inductive load such as a 115Vac electric motor or pump. 10A should be fine. Just using standard home outlet to supply this thing. I can make sure I use a 10 breaker or I can build a 10A (or slightly less) fuse into the system. See full data sheet here http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/OJ-OJE.pdf What type of load are you intending to drive? Boy you'll love this, A short circuit! Basically a low gauge wire connected to positive and negative that will burn up when the relay is tripped. A light bulb with out the glass, basically. I should say that I have already built this and used it twice it works quite well. The current system uses 115Vac at 15A for the entire system. I'm just redesigning to get the controls and the majority of the rest of the system at lower voltage. I thought of using 24VDC for the whole thing but a trace on one of the boards could burn up instead of the filament. Thats the reason for the relays to isolate the short from the rest of the system. I suppose I could have one PSU (24VDC) for the system side and another for the "short" side. it would be slightly safer. :-) |
#6
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:45:44 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote: "Ross Herbert" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 02:02:22 GMT, "SBFan2000" wrote: I did pick out final components except for the relays. I'm not entirely understanding how they are rated. I left room on the PCBs to accomidate most relays pins. I had a good idea of the voltage I wanted to use. I had selected 24vdc but was wondering if 12 or 18vdc would be enough. Basically I want a button that I push on a "control panel" to travel the 100ft to a relay which then turns on a 115vac supply. Like I said I'm having issues understanding the way relays are rated. Assuming I go with 24vdc I would need a relay with a coil rated at 24vdc and a N.O. switch that can handle 115vac at 10-20A, correct? On reading the explanation of the type of load you wish to drive (last paragraph below) it seems I may have interpreted that you wanted the relay contact to control the 115Vac output. When you said "I would need a relay with a coil rated at 24vdc and a N.O. switch that can handle 115vac at 10-20A, correct?" I thought you were referring to the N.O. contact on the relay as the "N.O. switch" which needed to be rated for 115Vac at 10 - 20A, but it appears that the N.O. switch you were referring to may be the switch used to cause the operation of the 24V relay at the remote end of the 100 ft cable. Is this correct? The switch used to control the relay coil only needs to be capable of handling a maximum of 1 - 2A at the operating voltage of 24Vdc. It won't matter if you do use a higher rated switch for this function. A sketch of what you are trying to achieve would be helpful. You could use any voltage you like depending upon what guage wire you use for the 100ft link. Generally any voltage from 12V - 24V would be quite suitable if you use twin conductor cable with conductors of 0.4mm (26AWG) diameter (or better) copper. Understood All leds are either red or green and based on what I read are 2vdc at .020mA. I do have 3-4 blue leds which I read at 4vdc and .040mA (if memory serves) Could you explain "in series" and "in Parallel." The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) Parallel would be having power go from one led to the other in a chain? Serial would be a home run track, back to power, for each led. In this case parallel is the way I did it. (with a resistor for each led) Oh dear me.... are you sure you should be getting into a project involving 115Vac? If you don't understand what series and parallel connections for low voltage components such as leds then you could get yourself killed when playing around with lethal voltages and currents. Have you tried doing some basic research into the meaning of these terms? - Google is your friend... Could you please explain series and parallel so I can verify what I have already researched and read on the subject instead of just saying that if I don't understand it I'm to stupid to deal with it? Basic explanation of series and parallel circuits http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_5/1.html Connecting LED's in series (20mA types) http://unclean.org/howto/led_circuit.html If you haven't been here then it is a good place to start http://led.linear1.org/ They have a LED series parallel calculator wizard http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz I would never connect leds of different colours in a series string because they all have different voltage requirements. I would only connect leds of the same colour in any individual series string. I didn't. I have three different colors but no colors are mixed with other colors. Both my red and green leds are all 2VDC and the 3 Blues are 4VDC. Technically I could connect the red and greens but I didn't. Every single LED in the system also has its own dedicated resistor. I'm not using one resistor for the entire string because (from what I researched) a led with slightly different requirements could burnout. This thing already has almost 100 resistors if that give you an idea of the LEDs required. Try using the LED calculator wizard in the link above to check out the circuit arrangement for each of the LED colour arrays you are building. I didn't mean to imply that the PCBs are totally done. They are merely to the point where I can no longer put off relay selection. That all said, I don't doubt I'm doing things wrong and backwards, it is my first PCB from scratch. (I've repaired them at work) How about these: http://cgi.ebay.com/Tyco-Relays-SPST...PCB_W0QQitemZ1 20060224418QQihZ002QQcategoryZ42897QQrdZ1QQssPage NameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem It depends on what type of load you are planning to control with the relay output. That particular relay is only rated to switch 10A @ 250Vac into a resistive load. Also, it can only switch a maximum load of 280W. You would not use it to control an inductive load such as a 115Vac electric motor or pump. 10A should be fine. Just using standard home outlet to supply this thing. I can make sure I use a 10 breaker or I can build a 10A (or slightly less) fuse into the system. See full data sheet here http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/OJ-OJE.pdf What type of load are you intending to drive? Boy you'll love this, A short circuit! Basically a low gauge wire connected to positive and negative that will burn up when the relay is tripped. A light bulb with out the glass, basically. I should say that I have already built this and used it twice it works quite well. The current system uses 115Vac at 15A for the entire system. I'm just redesigning to get the controls and the majority of the rest of the system at lower voltage. I thought of using 24VDC for the whole thing but a trace on one of the boards could burn up instead of the filament. Thats the reason for the relays to isolate the short from the rest of the system. I suppose I could have one PSU (24VDC) for the system side and another for the "short" side. it would be slightly safer. :-) You will needa separate low power 24V dc supply to drive the relay coil - 100mA output capability would be suitable for the relay you have nominated. Use a separate high power 24V dc supply for the output (load side). This will need to be a fairly robust supply and may not need to be a regulated supply - a simple brute force mains transformer, bridge rectifier and filter capacitor arrangement with a hefty output circuit breaker or fuse (say 50A). The problem I see for the relay you have nominated is that the relay contacts will either be welded together or simply blasted away as soon as they make to supply 24V to the short circuit load. It is not going to be suitable for what you want to do. A pcb mounted relay will not be the way to go. For the function you require to perform you need a heavy duty contactor or mercury relay to handle the fast high current surge you will produce. Something like these would be suitable http://www.tempco.com/Accessories/Me...ent_Relays.htm Note: to drive the 24V dc coil of a RLY01355 (35A rating) you would need a 24Vdc coil supply capable of around 250mA. |
#7
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On 2006-12-14, Ross Herbert wrote:
I would never connect leds of different colours in a series string because they all have different voltage requirements. I would only connect leds of the same colour in any individual series string. theres no risa as long as the LEDs are all happy with the same current, LEDs aren't controlled by voltage anyway, they're controlled by current and drop whatever voltage they need. Bye. Jasen |
#8
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
Basically I want a button that I push on a "control panel" to travel the
100ft to a relay which then turns on a 115vac supply. Like I said I'm having issues understanding the way relays are rated. Assuming I go with 24vdc I would need a relay with a coil rated at 24vdc and a N.O. switch that can handle 115vac at 10-20A, correct? On reading the explanation of the type of load you wish to drive (last paragraph below) it seems I may have interpreted that you wanted the relay contact to control the 115Vac output. Yes, this is correct. However, after I posted this I realized it would not work. I would be risking melting the relay instead of the "filament" that I want to blow. Is this correct? When you said "I would need a relay with a coil rated at 24vdc and a N.O. switch that can handle 115vac at 10-20A, correct?" I thought you were referring to the N.O. contact on the relay as the "N.O. switch" which needed to be rated for 115Vac at 10 - 20A, but it appears that the N.O. switch you were referring to may be the switch used to cause the operation of the 24V relay at the remote end of the 100 ft cable. Is this correct? No, the remote end would have simple push buttons and leds which when the button is push would send 12-24VDC to the relay causing it to trip the 150Vac side and blowing the filament. However, as I said above, I'm thinking this will not work because the relay would like blow instead of the filment. Want I was thinking since I last posted was, model rocket ignitors. They only require 6-9VDC to ignite so I could forget about the 115VAC. (I case you haven't figured it out, I'm looking to fire off fireworks while a safe distance away and in quick succession.) So my new question would be, can those relays I was looking at handle the 6-9VDC without damage? (I'm looking to do this as cheap as possible and those relays are $ .49.) The switch used to control the relay coil only needs to be capable of handling a maximum of 1 - 2A at the operating voltage of 24Vdc. It won't matter if you do use a higher rated switch for this function. A sketch of what you are trying to achieve would be helpful. You don't happen to have PCD wizard do you. Thats what I'm using! You could use any voltage you like depending upon what guage wire you use for the 100ft link. Generally any voltage from 12V - 24V would be quite suitable if you use twin conductor cable with conductors of 0.4mm (26AWG) diameter (or better) copper. Understood All leds are either red or green and based on what I read are 2vdc at .020mA. I do have 3-4 blue leds which I read at 4vdc and .040mA (if memory serves) Could you explain "in series" and "in Parallel." The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) Parallel would be having power go from one led to the other in a chain? Serial would be a home run track, back to power, for each led. In this case parallel is the way I did it. (with a resistor for each led) Oh dear me.... are you sure you should be getting into a project involving 115Vac? If you don't understand what series and parallel connections for low voltage components such as leds then you could get yourself killed when playing around with lethal voltages and currents. Have you tried doing some basic research into the meaning of these terms? - Google is your friend... Could you please explain series and parallel so I can verify what I have already researched and read on the subject instead of just saying that if I don't understand it I'm to stupid to deal with it? Basic explanation of series and parallel circuits http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_5/1.html Connecting LED's in series (20mA types) http://unclean.org/howto/led_circuit.html If you haven't been here then it is a good place to start http://led.linear1.org/ They have a LED series parallel calculator wizard http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz I would never connect leds of different colours in a series string because they all have different voltage requirements. I would only connect leds of the same colour in any individual series string. I didn't. I have three different colors but no colors are mixed with other colors. Both my red and green leds are all 2VDC and the 3 Blues are 4VDC. Technically I could connect the red and greens but I didn't. Every single LED in the system also has its own dedicated resistor. I'm not using one resistor for the entire string because (from what I researched) a led with slightly different requirements could burnout. This thing already has almost 100 resistors if that give you an idea of the LEDs required. Try using the LED calculator wizard in the link above to check out the circuit arrangement for each of the LED colour arrays you are building. I didn't mean to imply that the PCBs are totally done. They are merely to the point where I can no longer put off relay selection. That all said, I don't doubt I'm doing things wrong and backwards, it is my first PCB from scratch. (I've repaired them at work) How about these: http://cgi.ebay.com/Tyco-Relays-SPST...-PCB_W0QQitemZ 1 20060224418QQihZ002QQcategoryZ42897QQrdZ1QQssPage NameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem It depends on what type of load you are planning to control with the relay output. That particular relay is only rated to switch 10A @ 250Vac into a resistive load. Also, it can only switch a maximum load of 280W. You would not use it to control an inductive load such as a 115Vac electric motor or pump. 10A should be fine. Just using standard home outlet to supply this thing. I can make sure I use a 10 breaker or I can build a 10A (or slightly less) fuse into the system. See full data sheet here http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/OJ-OJE.pdf What type of load are you intending to drive? Boy you'll love this, A short circuit! Basically a low gauge wire connected to positive and negative that will burn up when the relay is tripped. A light bulb with out the glass, basically. I should say that I have already built this and used it twice it works quite well. The current system uses 115Vac at 15A for the entire system. I'm just redesigning to get the controls and the majority of the rest of the system at lower voltage. I thought of using 24VDC for the whole thing but a trace on one of the boards could burn up instead of the filament. Thats the reason for the relays to isolate the short from the rest of the system. I suppose I could have one PSU (24VDC) for the system side and another for the "short" side. it would be slightly safer. :-) You will needa separate low power 24V dc supply to drive the relay coil - 100mA output capability would be suitable for the relay you have nominated. Use a separate high power 24V dc supply for the output (load side). This will need to be a fairly robust supply and may not need to be a regulated supply - a simple brute force mains transformer, bridge rectifier and filter capacitor arrangement with a hefty output circuit breaker or fuse (say 50A). The problem I see for the relay you have nominated is that the relay contacts will either be welded together or simply blasted away as soon as they make to supply 24V to the short circuit load. It is not going to be suitable for what you want to do. A pcb mounted relay will not be the way to go. For the function you require to perform you need a heavy duty contactor or mercury relay to handle the fast high current surge you will produce. Something like these would be suitable http://www.tempco.com/Accessories/Me...ent_Relays.htm Note: to drive the 24V dc coil of a RLY01355 (35A rating) you would need a 24Vdc coil supply capable of around 250mA. |
#9
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
Ross Herbert wrote:
A sketch of what you are trying to achieve would be helpful. .. SBFan2000 wrote: You don't happen to have PCD wizard do you. Thats what I'm using! It's customary NOT to remove from your blockquote the name of the person to whom you are responding. So, how were you planning to convey this graphic to Ross? How about to everyone else reading the thread? (Groups without **binary** or **binaries** in their names are text-only and typically have attachments stripped off at the 1st server the post encounters.) Most people find it easy to use a monospaced font like Courier to make ASCII diagrams of simple circuits--even complex ones-- then cut & paste that into the post. This tool (Andy's ASCII Circuit) is often used: (translated from German) http://translate.google.com/translat...ngpair=de%7Cen Try the *ASCII Circuits* link to see examples. |
#10
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
"JeffM" wrote in message ups.com... Ross Herbert wrote: A sketch of what you are trying to achieve would be helpful. . SBFan2000 wrote: You don't happen to have PCD wizard do you. Thats what I'm using! It's customary NOT to remove from your blockquote the name of the person to whom you are responding. So, how were you planning to convey this graphic to Ross? Ever heard of E-mail?? How about to everyone else reading the thread? (Groups without **binary** or **binaries** in their names are text-only and typically have attachments stripped off at the 1st server the post encounters.) Most people find it easy to use a monospaced font like Courier to make ASCII diagrams of simple circuits--even complex ones-- then cut & paste that into the post. This tool (Andy's ASCII Circuit) is often used: (translated from German) http://translate.google.com/translat...ngpair=de%7Cen Try the *ASCII Circuits* link to see examples. |
#11
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
Anyone got a good supplier for PCB components! I'm looking at a couple but
was wondering what others are using? |
#12
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 03:00:00 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote: Anyone got a good supplier for PCB components! I'm looking at a couple but was wondering what others are using? I am sorry to have to say this but when you ask such an open ended, non-specific question such as this I wonder how you managed to get this far on the NG without somebody jumping on you. I mean - "PCB components" have been around even before the PCB was first devised. Virtually any passive component (resistor, capacitor, inductor, transformer etc) can be PCB mounted. Before PCB's, components were mounted on stripboard or bare phenolic or fibreglass board with soldered wire links. The very same components can also be mounted on PCB's. If you want help then you have to be more specific because there are a million places which anyone who has even the vaguest interest in electronics will know of. Why don't you just try Googling for electronic components of the type you need? YOu need to think more logically before putting fingers to the keyboard. |
#13
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
My God, what is the problem? Did you not read that I have already found and
are "looking at a few sources." I'm not so stupid as to not try google. The supplier I'm looking at now has everything you could imagine. Their catalog is nearly 1000 pages. I was just wondering if anyone out there had any sources that they use that might be better. Every post that I make results in some smartass worthless post. I already admitted that I'm new at this what else do you want? If I knew all this stuff then I wouldn't be asking for help. I'm trying to learn and if you are unwilling to teach then I would suggest you not reply to my posts. I belong and lurk at many other boards and they don't (for the most part) have these worthless responses. Those newsgroups help each other and are understanding and helpful to the newbies. This group just keeps knocking the newbie down. I get it, I'm new and you are all electronic gods. "How dare the little old newbie ask a question, hes not worthy to talk to the likes of me." I don't need this. I'll just stay with asking the electical engineer at work. I was trying not to bother him but when I started get worthless responses I went ahead and asked and he, unlike the people here, was more than willing to help, even with his super busy schedule. He even gave me an old breadboard that he had. Today I asked about sources for "PCB components for making my first board" and he gave me a two huge catalogs. He didn't give me **** about not asking a specific question. Its so nice to find someone willing to help I wish I could have found it here. Ross, I do appreciate the links you provided. They helped and I did understand serial vs. parallel but at least the link verified that. You were the closest to being helpful. As for the rest of the group, its just not worth it. You people are so negative and unhelpful that its really sad. I'm unsubscribing from this "I'm better than you" group. If anyone wants to be friendly and actually helpful you may contact me directly. I'm the most friendly guy you'll ever meet when I not being ridiculed! "Ross Herbert" wrote in message ... On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 03:00:00 GMT, "SBFan2000" wrote: Anyone got a good supplier for PCB components! I'm looking at a couple but was wondering what others are using? I am sorry to have to say this but when you ask such an open ended, non-specific question such as this I wonder how you managed to get this far on the NG without somebody jumping on you. I mean - "PCB components" have been around even before the PCB was first devised. Thats interesting, the "PCB component" was around BEFORE the PCB! That must have been hard for people having all these "PCB components" and not having anywhere to put them or for that matter even knowing what a PCB was. I would suggest that they may not have been called "PCB components" if the PCB didn't yet exist. Virtually any passive component (resistor, capacitor, inductor, transformer etc) can be PCB mounted. Thereby making them a "PCB component" and a subject of my request. Perhaps you could have suggested a place to purchase them. Before PCB's, components were mounted on stripboard or bare phenolic or fibreglass board with soldered wire links. The very same components can also be mounted on PCB's. If you want help then you have to be more specific because there are a million places which anyone who has even the vaguest interest in electronics will know of. Why don't you just try Googling for electronic components of the type you need? I have! Imagine that! I've found most of what I need but would rather place one or two orders from large suppliers instead of 10-15 little guys! Hence the question. YOu need to think more logically before putting fingers to the keyboard. And you need to stick to the question asked or ask a polite counter question. EVERYONE HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS! |
#14
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:29:54 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote: My God, what is the problem? Did you not read that I have already found and are "looking at a few sources." I'm not so stupid as to not try google. The supplier I'm looking at now has everything you could imagine. Their catalog is nearly 1000 pages. I was just wondering if anyone out there had any sources that they use that might be better. --- Why would it matter? From what I've read so far you don't even know how to choose parts, or you don't know how they work, or you don't even know how to calculate the resistance of a length of wire, so where they come from is really unimportant. --- Every post that I make results in some smartass worthless post. I already admitted that I'm new at this what else do you want? If I knew all this stuff then I wouldn't be asking for help. I'm trying to learn and if you are unwilling to teach then I would suggest you not reply to my posts. I belong and lurk at many other boards and they don't (for the most part) have these worthless responses. Those newsgroups help each other and are understanding and helpful to the newbies. This group just keeps knocking the newbie down. I get it, I'm new and you are all electronic gods. "How dare the little old newbie ask a question, hes not worthy to talk to the likes of me." --- This is alt.electronics, where the attitudes might be a little less condescending than on sci.electronics.basics, where you might be slapped around a little less. Try it. Basically, there are no stupid questions on abse. --- I don't need this. I'll just stay with asking the electical engineer at work. I was trying not to bother him but when I started get worthless responses I went ahead and asked and he, unlike the people here, was more than willing to help, even with his super busy schedule. He even gave me an old breadboard that he had. Today I asked about sources for "PCB components for making my first board" and he gave me a two huge catalogs. He didn't give me **** about not asking a specific question. Its so nice to find someone willing to help I wish I could have found it here. --- Damn!, it seems like you're ****ed because people here have told you that you're going about your business in a way that's bassackwards and you don't want to hear that. OK. So take a hike and figure it out for yourself. --- Ross, I do appreciate the links you provided. They helped and I did understand serial vs. parallel but at least the link verified that. You were the closest to being helpful. As for the rest of the group, its just not worth it. You people are so negative and unhelpful that its really sad. I'm unsubscribing from this "I'm better than you" group. If anyone wants to be friendly and actually helpful you may contact me directly. --- Why? For the great honor of being able to tutor you, LOL? --- I'm the most friendly guy you'll ever meet when I not being ridiculed! --- I suspect, then, that you really pretty hostile most of the time. -- JF |
#15
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:18:40 -0800, John Fields
wrote: Basically, there are no stupid questions on abse. --- seb -- JF |
#16
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:29:54 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote: My God, what is the problem? Did you not read that I have already found and are "looking at a few sources." I'm not so stupid as to not try google. The supplier I'm looking at now has everything you could imagine. Their catalog is nearly 1000 pages. I was just wondering if anyone out there had any sources that they use that might be better. Yes I did read. Your query was' "Anyone got a good supplier for PCB components!..." If you caught the gist of my reply then it will have been apparent that I was saying virtually ALL electronic components are capable of being PCB mounted so any component supplier has "PCB components". However, some suppliers specialise in certain types of components only and not others. Without knowing the family or type of components you want then we can't answer you. Further to that we don't know where you are located and we don't know whether you meant "suppliers in your area" or suppliers "anywhere in the world". If you want the largest suppliers capable of supplying almost any components or tool used in electronics in the US then perhaps Mouser, and in Canada Allied, and in the UK/Australia/NZ then RS Components. There are literally thousands of other suppliers which may or may not suit your needs but we can't exactly guess what you are looking for. How do you think all the current electronics engineers/techs managed to discover the intricacies of electronics and where to get components when they were newbies? They didn't have the internet where they could absolve all care and the requirement for research off their own bat by simply jumping onto a NG and typing some inane question. They had to buy electronics magazines and books and read as much as they could to get the basics and then go to tech school to learn more. Only when they felt a bit confident of their knowledge were they then prepared to ask a question or two of a more experienced electronics boffin or instructor face to face at a technical/trade school. The internet has made it too simple and too convenient for anyone without even the basic knowledge of what electronics components are and how they work to take to the keyboard and try to get detailed instructions as to how to buy, prototype and construct a project - often one of such complexity that only a technician with many years of technical experience and accumulated knowledge would attempt. Every post that I make results in some smartass worthless post. I already admitted that I'm new at this what else do you want? If I knew all this stuff then I wouldn't be asking for help. I'm trying to learn and if you are unwilling to teach then I would suggest you not reply to my posts. I belong and lurk at many other boards and they don't (for the most part) have these worthless responses. Those newsgroups help each other and are understanding and helpful to the newbies. This group just keeps knocking the newbie down. I get it, I'm new and you are all electronic gods. "How dare the little old newbie ask a question, hes not worthy to talk to the likes of me." Since your posts, by your own admission, seem to attract what you call "smartass worthless posts" perhaps you should be asking yourself the question "just who is marching out of step?" And, if you are honest, you might even come to the conclusion that it could be yourself and not the people who are responding to your posts. Firstly, I was trying to help on your specific problem, but suddenly you chucked a wobbly and steered off at a tangent in the middle of the thread and stated asking a general question about component suppliers. As John Fields has inferred, since you admit you are a newbie then perhaps you should not be posting in this NG, but more appropriately in science.electronics.basics. I don't need this. I'll just stay with asking the electical engineer at work. I was trying not to bother him but when I started get worthless responses I went ahead and asked and he, unlike the people here, was more than willing to help, even with his super busy schedule. He even gave me an old breadboard that he had. Today I asked about sources for "PCB components for making my first board" and he gave me a two huge catalogs. He didn't give me **** about not asking a specific question. Its so nice to find someone willing to help I wish I could have found it here. Your query about "PCB components" is so general that you might have dispensed with the "PCB" and simply asked about "components". As I have said, virtually ALL common electronic components can be PCB mounted, so you weren't helping yourself at all with such an inane question. Now if you had asked about SMD components (since these can only be mounted on PCB's) then it would have made more sense but even then not very specific. You could have expanded a bit more by specifying such things as resistors, capacitors or active components such as discrete semiconductors or IC's. Now each of these groupings contains subgroups pertaining to more specialised applications and uses and it is impossible to provide an answer to your query without that information. The reason the engineer at work simply gave you the catalogue to look at was that since you didn't exactly know what you were looking for then perhaps by researching the catalogue you would be able to ask about specific components you were interested in. It would have been impossible for him to spend the time answering your questions which may have been pointless before you looked at the catalogue. Then before asking on the NG you should have used Google and located suppliers local to your area where you could at least look at the components even if you didn't want to buy. Thats what I and many other newbies had to do when we were learning. Ross, I do appreciate the links you provided. They helped and I did understand serial vs. parallel but at least the link verified that. You were the closest to being helpful. As for the rest of the group, its just not worth it. You people are so negative and unhelpful that its really sad. I'm unsubscribing from this "I'm better than you" group. If anyone wants to be friendly and actually helpful you may contact me directly. I'm the most friendly guy you'll ever meet when I not being ridiculed! "Ross Herbert" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 03:00:00 GMT, "SBFan2000" wrote: Anyone got a good supplier for PCB components! I'm looking at a couple but was wondering what others are using? I am sorry to have to say this but when you ask such an open ended, non-specific question such as this I wonder how you managed to get this far on the NG without somebody jumping on you. I mean - "PCB components" have been around even before the PCB was first devised. Thats interesting, the "PCB component" was around BEFORE the PCB! That must have been hard for people having all these "PCB components" and not having anywhere to put them or for that matter even knowing what a PCB was. I would suggest that they may not have been called "PCB components" if the PCB didn't yet exist. YOu haven't been listening. Components such as axial resistors and capacitors have been around since the dawn of modern electronics. They weren't initially intended to be mounted on PCB's because those mounting methods hadn't yet been devised. Nevertheless, when the PCB was subsequently introduced, those very same components were able to be mounted on the PCB. The ONLY components which might properly be called "PCB Components" are those intended for surface mounting, since it is impracticable to mount them on anything but a PCB. Virtually any passive component (resistor, capacitor, inductor, transformer etc) can be PCB mounted. Thereby making them a "PCB component" and a subject of my request. Perhaps you could have suggested a place to purchase them. Sure, but where are you located? Am I supposed to just guess? For example I live in Perth, Australia but it probably doesn't help you much if I tell you Altronics http://www.altronics.com.au/ or Jaycar http://www.jaycar.com.au/ or RS Components http://www.rsaustralia.com/ RS do however have distributors inthe US but there are so many to choose from so I can't help more than this. Before PCB's, components were mounted on stripboard or bare phenolic or fibreglass board with soldered wire links. The very same components can also be mounted on PCB's. If you want help then you have to be more specific because there are a million places which anyone who has even the vaguest interest in electronics will know of. Why don't you just try Googling for electronic components of the type you need? I have! Imagine that! I've found most of what I need but would rather place one or two orders from large suppliers instead of 10-15 little guys! Hence the question. You weren't specific enough. YOu need to think more logically before putting fingers to the keyboard. And you need to stick to the question asked or ask a polite counter question. My reply certainly was critical of you but you didn't pose the question in a way which said you wanted to buy all your components from one supplier. Heck, even large suppliers can't supply everything needed for a specific project. That's why a project design team will usually have a person with precise and specific knowledge of nothing else but components and where to source them. As many as 6 or more suppliers may be needed to source all the items needed in a design. The engineers design the stuff and then tell the components man what they need and he has to go out and find it at the same time as considering second and even third sourcing in case one supplier dries up or goes bust or one manufacturer stops producing. EVERYONE HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS! And the same to you. |
#17
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
"John Fields" wrote in message
... On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:29:54 GMT, "SBFan2000" Well that was a waste of your time, John. He's unsubscribed, didn't you spot that bit? |
#18
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:21:36 -0000, "Marcus Redd"
wrote: "John Fields" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:29:54 GMT, "SBFan2000" Well that was a waste of your time, John. --- That's OK, things are pretty slow around here. --- He's unsubscribed, didn't you spot that bit? --- Yup, but the deed doesn't always follow the word... :-) -- JF |
#19
Posted to alt.electronics
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Power Requirements
On 2006-12-19, SBFan2000 wrote:
Anyone got a good supplier for PCB components! I'm looking at a couple but was wondering what others are using? PCB components? you mean like fibreglass, resin, and copper sheet? I don't think any of the posters here who claim to "make their own" go to that extreme! Bye. Jasen |
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