I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

Bob



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"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...
I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

Bob


Sharp shears will cut them with little problem, but always measure to assure a
clean separation between the elements.

The voltage for most phosphors is about 85 to 135 Volts AC at about 400 to 800
hertz. They will work on 60 hertz at a reduced output.

It's also worth noting that the ones I use have the back conducting surface
exposed, so you need to cover it with insulating tape or laminate the whole
thing.



Sharp shears will cut them with little problem, but always measure to
assure a
clean separation between the elements.


Good advice from Clarence - I've made a couple that were short circuit.



The voltage for most phosphors is about 85 to 135 Volts AC at about 400 to
800
hertz. They will work on 60 hertz at a reduced output.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

Yes you can cut them down, however, their life is shortened, in some
cases quite dramatically, due to the ingress of air.

sPoNiX

I didn't know that. Is this process prevented by laminating or is the
damage already done at the cutting time?


Gareth.



Yes you can cut them down, however, their life is shortened, in some
cases quite dramatically, due to the ingress of air.

sPoNiX

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

Yes you can cut them down, however, their life is shortened, in some
cases quite dramatically, due to the ingress of air.


Moisture!
Perhaps I assumed too much.
Seal the edge with a strip of clear plastic tape!

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:00:52 GMT, "Clarence" wrote:


"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

Yes you can cut them down, however, their life is shortened, in some
cases quite dramatically, due to the ingress of air.


Moisture!
Perhaps I assumed too much.
Seal the edge with a strip of clear plastic tape!

---
That won't stop anything.

--
John Fields

"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:00:52 GMT, "Clarence" wrote:


"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement?
Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

Yes you can cut them down, however, their life is shortened, in some
cases quite dramatically, due to the ingress of air.


Moisture!
Perhaps I assumed too much.
Seal the edge with a strip of clear plastic tape!

---
That won't stop anything.



How about one of those Seal-A-Meal things for sealing frozen food in plastic
bags?

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

---
1. Good and cheap are sometimes mutually exclusive. How much do you
want to spend, say, per square inch?

2. I have.

3. Usually.

4. Not very. 90 to about 120VRMS will usually work OK. You can change
the brightness by varying the voltage and the color (somewhat) by
changing the frequency. Life to half-brightness varies inversely
with brightness and with frequency.


--
John Fields

John Fields wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

---
1. Good and cheap are sometimes mutually exclusive. How much do you
want to spend, say, per square inch?

2. I have.

3. Usually.

4. Not very. 90 to about 120VRMS will usually work OK. You can change
the brightness by varying the voltage and the color (somewhat) by
changing the frequency. Life to half-brightness varies inversely
with brightness and with frequency.


Ok, the retrofit application i have has a display about 3/4" wide by
4" long. Plastic encased like a laminated card. The EL display
backlite is dead. Measuring the voltage with my fluke on AC scale measures
about 55 volts AC. Is this too low for operation? It seems to be powered by a
sealed step up module

Bob



--
John Fields



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"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...

| Ok, the retrofit application i have has a display about 3/4" wide by
| 4" long. Plastic encased like a laminated card. The EL display
| backlite is dead. Measuring the voltage with my fluke on AC scale measures
| about 55 volts AC. Is this too low for operation? It seems to be powered
by a
| sealed step up module

Might be enough - tried 120 VAC on the strip?

5" x 1" electroluminescent strip. Ivory in off-state. Glows green when
energized by 120 Vac or inverter. For backlighting control panels,
special-effects lighting, models etc. Solderable pins extend 0.2" beyond end
of panel. CAT# EL-5 Your Price: $3.50 each

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bi...L-5&type=store

N

"NSM" wrote in message news:sMdid.66581$df2.36110@edtnps89...

"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...

| Ok, the retrofit application i have has a display about 3/4" wide by
| 4" long. Plastic encased like a laminated card. The EL display
| backlite is dead. Measuring the voltage with my fluke on AC scale measures
| about 55 volts AC. Is this too low for operation? It seems to be powered
by a
| sealed step up module

Might be enough - tried 120 VAC on the strip?


The EL is also frequency sensitive, since it IS a losey capacitor. If the
frequency of the 55 Volts was higher than the usual 400HZ it might be enough. I
have run El's on 50 - 75 V RMS at 1.8KHZ. Higher frequencies tend to have an
affect the color.


5" x 1" electroluminescent strip. Ivory in off-state. Glows green when
energized by 120 Vac or inverter. For backlighting control panels,
special-effects lighting, models etc. Solderable pins extend 0.2" beyond end
of panel. CAT# EL-5 Your Price: $3.50 each


http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bi...L-5&type=store

N

Clarence wrote:

"NSM" wrote in message news:sMdid.66581$df2.36110@edtnps89...

"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...

| Ok, the retrofit application i have has a display about 3/4" wide by
| 4" long. Plastic encased like a laminated card. The EL display
| backlite is dead. Measuring the voltage with my fluke on AC scale measures
| about 55 volts AC. Is this too low for operation? It seems to be powered
by a
| sealed step up module

Might be enough - tried 120 VAC on the strip?



The EL is also frequency sensitive, since it IS a losey capacitor. If the
frequency of the 55 Volts was higher than the usual 400HZ it might be enough. I
have run El's on 50 - 75 V RMS at 1.8KHZ. Higher frequencies tend to have an
affect the color.


Dont forget the type of fluke may be quite important - the waveform is
in general not sinusoidal, and beware the frequency response of the
meter. "When in doubt, scope it out." I invariably use a scope to see
whats going on, and (where appropriate) a meter for the actual
measurement. I've been caught too many times.....

nowadays I use my trusty HP3400A 10MHz AC thermal RMS meter, which cost
about US$50 - I miss those MIT junkfests on a sunday....

I have never chopped one to pieces, but the contaminant issue sounds
quite feasible. I last designed an EL backlight into a product 4 years
ago - at the time I put a lot of work into ascertaining the lifetime,
which is a strong function of temperature, voltage, frequency, sock
colour etc. IIRC the backlites I was using were rated about 2,000 hours,
and so I got the software to turn off the EL a few minutes after a
keypress. I also designed a decent smps to drive the thing - the asian
prefab EL drivers I looked at all had nasty waveforms, and were
seriously crappy (appalling layout, beating bjts to death etc) as well
as expensive and inconvenient to mount - which dies first, the EL or the
smps.....

Cheers
Terry

"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...


John Fields wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement?
Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

---
1. Good and cheap are sometimes mutually exclusive. How much do you
want to spend, say, per square inch?

2. I have.

3. Usually.

4. Not very. 90 to about 120VRMS will usually work OK. You can change
the brightness by varying the voltage and the color (somewhat) by
changing the frequency. Life to half-brightness varies inversely
with brightness and with frequency.


Ok, the retrofit application i have has a display about 3/4" wide by
4" long. Plastic encased like a laminated card. The EL display
backlite is dead. Measuring the voltage with my fluke on AC scale measures
about 55 volts AC. Is this too low for operation? It seems to be powered
by a
sealed step up module

Bob


What're you measuring it with? The high frequency AC won't read correctly on
most multimeters, even some true RMS ones can't go that high. Try using an
oscilloscope if you have access to one.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 03:38:03 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:


"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...


John Fields wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:

I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement?
Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

---
1. Good and cheap are sometimes mutually exclusive. How much do you
want to spend, say, per square inch?

2. I have.

3. Usually.

4. Not very. 90 to about 120VRMS will usually work OK. You can change
the brightness by varying the voltage and the color (somewhat) by
changing the frequency. Life to half-brightness varies inversely
with brightness and with frequency.


Ok, the retrofit application i have has a display about 3/4" wide by
4" long. Plastic encased like a laminated card. The EL display
backlite is dead. Measuring the voltage with my fluke on AC scale measures
about 55 volts AC. Is this too low for operation? It seems to be powered
by a
sealed step up module

Bob


What're you measuring it with? The high frequency AC won't read correctly on
most multimeters, even some true RMS ones can't go that high. Try using an
oscilloscope if you have access to one.

---
The truth is, it makes very little difference. The goal is to get the
thing to light up, not to determine, to the Nth degree, what's driving
it, so pretty much whatever the waveshape is is fine if it works.

--
John Fields

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:00:55 -0600, John Fields wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 03:38:03 GMT, "James Sweet"
"BOB URZ" wrote in message
John Fields wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:59 -0600, BOB URZ
wrote:
I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement?
Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?
1. Good and cheap are sometimes mutually exclusive. How much do you
want to spend, say, per square inch?
2. I have.
3. Usually.
4. Not very. 90 to about 120VRMS will usually work OK. You can change
the brightness by varying the voltage and the color (somewhat) by
changing the frequency. Life to half-brightness varies inversely
with brightness and with frequency.
Ok, the retrofit application i have has a display about 3/4" wide by
4" long. Plastic encased like a laminated card. The EL display
backlite is dead. Measuring the voltage with my fluke on AC scale measures
about 55 volts AC. Is this too low for operation? It seems to be powered
by a
sealed step up module

Bob


What're you measuring it with? The high frequency AC won't read correctly on
most multimeters, even some true RMS ones can't go that high. Try using an
oscilloscope if you have access to one.

---
The truth is, it makes very little difference. The goal is to get the
thing to light up, not to determine, to the Nth degree, what's driving
it, so pretty much whatever the waveshape is is fine if it works.

But the problem was, it wasn't lighting up at all. A failed power supply
could do that, couldn't it? 55V is noticeably less than 90V, albeit that
_could_ be attributable to the meter, of course.

I'm "only" a tech, but one aspect of troubleshooting is determining
exactly where the failure has taken place, and diagnosis can be
cheaper than shotgunning, especially if you have to make up a
custom part.

Thanks,
Rich

"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...
| I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
| some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
| you just cut them down without damaging them?
| How critical is the voltage range to drive them?
|
| Bob

http://www.allelectronics.com have various of these, cheap.

N

"BOB URZ" wrote in message
...
I am looking for a good cheap source for generic EL panels for
some older equipment retrofit. Has anyone done EL panel replacement? Can
you just cut them down without damaging them?
How critical is the voltage range to drive them?

Bob



I've cut them before with success.

Try www.allelectronics.com for cheap surplus inverters to drive them.