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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
The voltage from my generator drooped so much that a 3500 watt
generator would no longer start a 1/4 hp motor. So I opened up the back of the generator and removed the voltage regulator so I could see the part number. Upon removal I see the ubiquitous bulged electrolytic capacitor. All the electronics are are potted into the reg case but the bad cap protrudes from the potting compound by about 5/8". Today I ordered a new reg but I am thinking that since the bad cap sticks up so far why not just remove the contents of the cap and peel the can out of the potting compound, thereby exposing the cap leads. Then just solder a new cap to the old leads or even directly to the circuit board if I can get to it. I think that I will end needing to solder a couple wires to the old leads and then solder the cap to the wires though. If this turns out to be the case will having the cap connected to wires that may end up being about 6 inches long be a problem? The cap in question is 220 MFD 250 volt. I will be replacing it with one that has a higher voltage rating. Eric |
#2
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
Given that the alternative is landfill, use your heat gun (wife's hair dryer or oven) to remove the guts from the case and replace what is needed. IT may not be just that cap.
If you slide the potted guts out of the case, you then may freeze it hard, and hit it with a hammer to shatter the potting. This may help you get to the individual components faster. Been there. Done that. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#3
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 1:50:49 PM UTC-5, wrote:
The voltage from my generator drooped so much that a 3500 watt generator would no longer start a 1/4 hp motor. So I opened up the back of the generator and removed the voltage regulator so I could see the part number. Upon removal I see the ubiquitous bulged electrolytic capacitor. All the electronics are are potted into the reg case but the bad cap protrudes from the potting compound by about 5/8". Today I ordered a new reg but I am thinking that since the bad cap sticks up so far why not just remove the contents of the cap and peel the can out of the potting compound, thereby exposing the cap leads. Then just solder a new cap to the old leads or even directly to the circuit board if I can get to it. I think that I will end needing to solder a couple wires to the old leads and then solder the cap to the wires though. If this turns out to be the case will having the cap connected to wires that may end up being about 6 inches long be a problem? The cap in question is 220 MFD 250 volt. I will be replacing it with one that has a higher voltage rating. Eric A lot of smps designs want the bypass electros as close to the secondary rectifier as possible. I don't suppose a good electro a few inches away will be as bad as one with high esr properly mounted, but it still might cause problems. Unless it's an epoxy potting, you should be able to de-pot the board and get that cap in as it should. |
#4
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
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#5
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
Prickman complete moron wrote:
--------------------------------- Electrolytic caps have fairly high ESR and inductance so that they will never notice the effect of 6 inches of wire. ** Bull**** !!! The Prickman keeps reposting the SAME ******** he has been for decades. Adding 6 inches of wire to an electro will massively increase its self inductance, by a factor of 10 at least. The OP should add just enough wire to make connection to the PCB and twist the pair. ..... Phil |
#6
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 23:26:21 UTC, Phil Allison wrote:
rickman complete moron wrote: Electrolytic caps have fairly high ESR and inductance so that they will never notice the effect of 6 inches of wire. ** Bull**** !!! The Prickman keeps reposting the SAME ******** he has been for decades. Adding 6 inches of wire to an electro will massively increase its self inductance, by a factor of 10 at least. which might or might not be a problem. I have a computer somewhere that had all its on-board supply caps replaced with the new ones hanging on wires. Works flawlessly. The OP should add just enough wire to make connection to the PCB and twist the pair. Do what you can do. NT |
#7
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On 11/15/2017 3:26 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Prickman complete moron wrote: --------------------------------- Electrolytic caps have fairly high ESR and inductance so that they will never notice the effect of 6 inches of wire. ** Bull**** !!! The Prickman keeps reposting the SAME ******** he has been for decades. Adding 6 inches of wire to an electro will massively increase its self inductance, by a factor of 10 at least. The OP should add just enough wire to make connection to the PCB and twist the pair. .... Phil Put the biggest cap you can solder into the hole and parallel the wires to the external cap. |
#8
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
wrote:
---------------------------- Prickman complete moron wrote: Electrolytic caps have fairly high ESR and inductance so that they will never notice the effect of 6 inches of wire. ** Bull**** !!! The Prickman keeps reposting the SAME ******** he has been for decades. Adding 6 inches of wire to an electro will massively increase its self inductance, by a factor of 10 at least. which might or might not be a problem. ** FFS - do you *read* posts at all???? How is that relevant to the Prickman's bull**** claim ? FOAD ..... Phil |
#9
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Thursday, 16 November 2017 00:42:20 UTC, Phil Allison wrote:
tabby wrote: rickman complete moron wrote: Electrolytic caps have fairly high ESR and inductance so that they will never notice the effect of 6 inches of wire. ** Bull**** !!! The Prickman keeps reposting the SAME ******** he has been for decades. Adding 6 inches of wire to an electro will massively increase its self inductance, by a factor of 10 at least. which might or might not be a problem. ** FFS - do you *read* posts at all???? yes How is that relevant to the Prickman's bull**** claim ? it's relevant to the OP's situation FOAD thanks charmer. NT |
#10
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
wrote:
--------------------------- Prickman complete moron wrote: Electrolytic caps have fairly high ESR and inductance so that they will never notice the effect of 6 inches of wire. ** Bull**** !!! The Prickman keeps reposting the SAME ******** he has been for decades. Adding 6 inches of wire to an electro will massively increase its self inductance, by a factor of 10 at least. which might or might not be a problem. ** FFS - do you *read* posts at all???? yes ** But then ignore them and all context. How is that relevant to the Prickman's bull**** claim ? it's relevant to the OP's situation ** You ignored the question and the context, again. Wot a tenth-wit. ..... Phil |
#12
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:56:56 -0800, wrote:
The voltage from my generator drooped so much that a 3500 watt generator would no longer start a 1/4 hp motor. I wonder what caused the capacitor to bulge? Mostly, I find that it's the ripple current, where a small amount of AC voltage ripple is impressed across a filter capacitor. This causes a high current to flow through the capacitor, which causes heating, which causes the electrolyte to boil, which eventually blows the lid off the capacitor. So, what would cause AC to flow through the capacitor? Well, the generator will do that if the output from each of the presumably two phases is different. That could be caused by having a radically different load on each of the two phases. A two phase 3500 watt generator is really a dual 1750 watt generator, where each phase can only supply 1750 watts. If you try to load all 3500 watts across one phase, bad things will happen. Another possibility is a shorted turn on one winding. I have a few other guesses, but can offer much without a clue as to how its wired, which might be available once you disclose the maker and model number. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#13
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:38:35 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:56:56 -0800, wrote: The voltage from my generator drooped so much that a 3500 watt generator would no longer start a 1/4 hp motor. I wonder what caused the capacitor to bulge? Mostly, I find that it's the ripple current, where a small amount of AC voltage ripple is impressed across a filter capacitor. This causes a high current to flow through the capacitor, which causes heating, which causes the electrolyte to boil, which eventually blows the lid off the capacitor. So, what would cause AC to flow through the capacitor? Well, the generator will do that if the output from each of the presumably two phases is different. That could be caused by having a radically different load on each of the two phases. A two phase 3500 watt generator is really a dual 1750 watt generator, where each phase can only supply 1750 watts. If you try to load all 3500 watts across one phase, bad things will happen. Another possibility is a shorted turn on one winding. I have a few other guesses, but can offer much without a clue as to how its wired, which might be available once you disclose the maker and model number. Thanks for your replies Jeff. I did describe the cap in my first post. It is a 220 MFD 250 volt cap.I did not name the generator though. It is a Champion model C46540. It has an RV type 120 volt receptacle that used to put out the full 29 or so amps. It also has another 120 volt receptacle that is wired in parallel to the RV receptacle and it is the type that allows either a 15 amp or a 30 amp plug to be used. It also used to put out the full rated amperage. I don't know if it does now. It also has a 240 volt receptacle that I have never used except once just to test it. In your previous post you mentioned using a heat gun to remove the pottying compound. I'll take a look at the links you posted. Thanks, Eric |
#14
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:56:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: Given that the alternative is landfill, use your heat gun (wife's hair dryer or oven) to remove the guts from the case and replace what is needed. IT may not be just that cap. If you slide the potted guts out of the case, you then may freeze it hard, and hit it with a hammer to shatter the potting. This may help you get to the individual components faster. Been there. Done that. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Does the shattering damage other stuff? I could get some dry ice and freeze it really hard and then go after the potting with a punch. Eric |
#15
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:13:51 -0800 (PST), John-Del
wrote: On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 1:50:49 PM UTC-5, wrote: The voltage from my generator drooped so much that a 3500 watt generator would no longer start a 1/4 hp motor. So I opened up the back of the generator and removed the voltage regulator so I could see the part number. Upon removal I see the ubiquitous bulged electrolytic capacitor. All the electronics are are potted into the reg case but the bad cap protrudes from the potting compound by about 5/8". Today I ordered a new reg but I am thinking that since the bad cap sticks up so far why not just remove the contents of the cap and peel the can out of the potting compound, thereby exposing the cap leads. Then just solder a new cap to the old leads or even directly to the circuit board if I can get to it. I think that I will end needing to solder a couple wires to the old leads and then solder the cap to the wires though. If this turns out to be the case will having the cap connected to wires that may end up being about 6 inches long be a problem? The cap in question is 220 MFD 250 volt. I will be replacing it with one that has a higher voltage rating. Eric A lot of smps designs want the bypass electros as close to the secondary rectifier as possible. I don't suppose a good electro a few inches away will be as bad as one with high esr properly mounted, but it still might cause problems. Unless it's an epoxy potting, you should be able to de-pot the board and get that cap in as it should. I don't know what the compound is. It is black and hard. I'll try to get the new cap as close as possible. Thanks, Eric |
#16
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
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#17
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 11:49:31 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Does the shattering damage other stuff? I could get some dry ice and freeze it really hard and then go after the potting with a punch. Typically, not. This is not liquid-nitrogen cold. The stuff usually cracks into fairly separate pieces, but not explosively. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#18
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Thursday, 16 November 2017 02:02:20 UTC, Phil Allison wrote:
tabby wrote: --------------------------- Prickman complete moron wrote: Electrolytic caps have fairly high ESR and inductance so that they will never notice the effect of 6 inches of wire. ** Bull**** !!! The Prickman keeps reposting the SAME ******** he has been for decades. Adding 6 inches of wire to an electro will massively increase its self inductance, by a factor of 10 at least. which might or might not be a problem. ** FFS - do you *read* posts at all???? yes ** But then ignore them and all context. How is that relevant to the Prickman's bull**** claim ? it's relevant to the OP's situation ** You ignored the question and the context, again. Wot a tenth-wit. .... Phil I apologise for not considering you the centre of the universe. Have a nice plonk. Again. |
#19
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
Every so often, Phil goes off his meds and starts to act out. Dealing with him at these times is much like nailing Jell-O or peeling raisins. Not very rewarding despite considerable effort.
I am not sure what drives him back onto his meds - I expect he mouths off to one-too-many people face-to-face and gets his clock cleaned, or he is found moldering in an ally somewhere. A stint in rehab, and he is fit, once again to be in polite society until the next 'event'. Either way, he has some good knowledge, with the failing that it is neither absolute, entirely accurate or complete. This is true of all of us - however, Phil takes that failing very personally, and deems himself exempt from the consequences. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#20
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Thursday, 16 November 2017 19:43:34 UTC, wrote:
Every so often, Phil goes off his meds and starts to act out. Dealing with him at these times is much like nailing Jell-O or peeling raisins. Not very rewarding despite considerable effort. I am not sure what drives him back onto his meds - I expect he mouths off to one-too-many people face-to-face and gets his clock cleaned, or he is found moldering in an ally somewhere. A stint in rehab, and he is fit, once again to be in polite society until the next 'event'. Either way, he has some good knowledge, with the failing that it is neither absolute, entirely accurate or complete. This is true of all of us - however, Phil takes that failing very personally, and deems himself exempt from the consequences. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA I hope I never end up so intolerant or crazy. NT |
#21
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Dodgy generator voltage regulator repair
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:37:41 -0800 (PST), wrote:
I hope I never end up so intolerant or crazy. NT Don't worry. If it does happen, you'll be the last person to notice. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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