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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
I would like to test my 9V, C, D, AA, and AAA under the proper load. I don't know what that would be for each size though. I want to build a little test fixture for this with a meter and the appropriate load connected for each size. Can someone please tell me what the appropriate loads would be. Thanks, Lenny
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#3
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 11:01:27 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I would like to test my 9V, C, D, AA, and AAA under the proper load. I don't know what that would be for each size though. I want to build a little test fixture for this with a meter and the appropriate load connected for each size. Can someone please tell me what the appropriate loads would be. Thanks, Lenny Well, you could try bouncing the cells: http://gizmodo.com/an-amazingly-simple-way-to-test-if-a-battery-is-dead-1138197569 https://lifehacker.com/test-if-your-batteries-are-dead-by-dropping-them-on-a-h-1630525062 That second one is good. (I'd say they figured it out.) For alkaline, I just measure the open circuit voltage... that seems to be good enough for me. 1.6 fully charged, 1.4 OK, 1.2 or less pitch it. George H. I tried it and couldn't make it work, but maybe you'll have better luck. Lots of commercial alkaline battery testers available. I have one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amprobe-BAT200-Battery-Tester-/282415287281 There are quite a few do it thyself battery tester construction articles. Pick whichever looks good: https://www.google.com/search?q=build+alkaline+battery+tester Note: I've on a campaign to purge from my life as many alkaline batteries as possible. I'm tired of leaky batteries destroying my equipment. http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg Mostly, I'm switching to LiIon. Where that's not possible, LSD (low self discharge) NiMH cells. If the device will not run on NiMH, it gets recycled. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#4
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: Can someone please tell me what the appropriate loads would be. Looks like the consensus is 10 ohms 5 watts for all the 1.5v batteries: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/179303/what-resistance-load-do-battery-testers-aa-or-aaa-use-in-ohms-please However, Googling around, I'm finding schematics and recommendations varying from 8 ohms to 15 ohms. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#5
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
wrote:
I would like to test my 9V, C, D, AA, and AAA under the proper load. ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. ..... Phil |
#6
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
Phil Allison wrote:
wrote: I would like to test my 9V, C, D, AA, and AAA under the proper load. ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? Greg |
#7
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
GS wrote:
-------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? ..... Phil |
#8
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Tuesday, 19 September 2017 19:40:57 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I would like to test my 9V, C, D, AA, and AAA under the proper load. I don't know what that would be for each size though. I want to build a little test fixture for this with a meter and the appropriate load connected for each size. Can someone please tell me what the appropriate loads would be.. Thanks, Lenny For alkaline, I just measure the open circuit voltage... that seems to be good enough for me. 1.6 fully charged, 1.4 OK, 1.2 or less pitch it. George H. +1, simple & adequate for noncritical uses. Clocks stop at around 1.1v, it varies. NT |
#9
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On 20/09/2017 17:09, gregz wrote:
Phil Allison wrote: wrote: I would like to test my 9V, C, D, AA, and AAA under the proper load. ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? Greg Althogh it is not an ideal method, if I am in a hurry I quickly measure the short-circuit current. You'll need a meter with at least a 10A range and maybe more if your test leads are short and the meter shunt resistor has a low value. Obviously if you take too long to do this test, it will ruin the battery. With NiCd and NiMH cells you would want the resistance of the ammeter and leads to be at least 0.12 Ohms, so that nothing will melt, as the cells themselves are capable of extremely high currents. |
#10
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
Phil Allison wrote:
GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? .... Phil ESR. Greg |
#11
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:35:43 AM UTC-4, GS wrote:
Phil Allison wrote: GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? .... Phil ESR. Greg IIRC, you take the open circuit voltage and write it down. You take a voltage reading under a known fixed load and write that down. You plug those two voltage readings along with the load resistance value into a formula (that I can't recall) and you get the internal resistance of the battery. Waaaay too much trouble IMO. In recent years, I've found OC voltage sufficient to determine battery condition of basic alkaline cells. For high drain applications such as flash lights, anything at 1.5 is fine. For lower drain things like pocket radios or remote controls, anything above 1.3 works for many months. Any cell that reads 1.55 or above is virtually new. |
#12
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
GS wrote:
-------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? ESR. ** Err - with an ESR meter, like this one: http://bobparker.net.au/esr_meter/esrmeter.htm ...... Phil |
#13
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On 9/21/2017 4:55 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? ESR. ** Err - with an ESR meter, like this one: http://bobparker.net.au/esr_meter/esrmeter.htm ..... Phil Have you ever tried to measure the ESR of a battery with one of these? I bought an EBAY RLC/ESR tester. Found it useless measuring batteries. NO, putting a cap in series didn't help. Tried testing two batteries in series(reversed so the terminal voltage was zero). Not sure why, but I couldn't find any way to test battery ESR with it. Had to go back to pulse generator and scope. |
#14
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
mike wrote:
--------------- ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? ESR. ** Err - with an ESR meter, like this one: http://bobparker.net.au/esr_meter/esrmeter.htm Have you ever tried to measure the ESR of a battery with one of these? ** Been doing just that for 20 years, I know Bob Parker and he endorses the method. I wrote a short article on the idea and won nice prize from the publishers. Long as the ESR meter uses high frequency AC ( 20kHz to 100kHz) to measure impedance it will do cells as well. ..... Phil |
#15
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 7:46:39 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:35:43 AM UTC-4, GS wrote: Phil Allison wrote: GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? .... Phil ESR. Greg IIRC, you take the open circuit voltage and write it down. You take a voltage reading under a known fixed load and write that down. You plug those two voltage readings along with the load resistance value into a formula (that I can't recall) and you get the internal resistance of the battery. Waaaay too much trouble IMO. In recent years, I've found OC voltage sufficient to determine battery condition of basic alkaline cells. For high drain applications such as flash lights, anything at 1.5 is fine. For lower drain things like pocket radios or remote controls, anything above 1.3 works for many months. Any cell that reads 1.55 or above is virtually new. Wow, too much trouble? It's just ohm's law. Say V_O is open circuit voltage, V_L is with load R. I = V_L/R Bat_R = (V_O-V_L)/I (The ESR may change with load current... I don't know.) George H. |
#16
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 9:06:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 7:46:39 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:35:43 AM UTC-4, GS wrote: Phil Allison wrote: GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? .... Phil ESR. Greg IIRC, you take the open circuit voltage and write it down. You take a voltage reading under a known fixed load and write that down. You plug those two voltage readings along with the load resistance value into a formula (that I can't recall) and you get the internal resistance of the battery. Waaaay too much trouble IMO. In recent years, I've found OC voltage sufficient to determine battery condition of basic alkaline cells. For high drain applications such as flash lights, anything at 1.5 is fine. For lower drain things like pocket radios or remote controls, anything above 1.3 works for many months. Any cell that reads 1.55 or above is virtually new. Wow, too much trouble? It's just ohm's law. Say V_O is open circuit voltage, V_L is with load R. I = V_L/R Bat_R = (V_O-V_L)/I (The ESR may change with load current... I don't know.) George H. Yes, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaay too much trouble. With alkalines, a volt meter tells me *immediately* what I need to know if I don't have my battery checker with me. If it's 1.6, it's new. 1.5 good as new. Anything above 1.3 is good for at least half the life of a new battery. Anything lower I don't bother with. In the old days, some batteries would read decent OC voltage and still sag under their intended load. I haven't seen a battery in many years that would show good OC voltage and sag under load. |
#17
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
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#18
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 5:34:07 AM UTC-4, mike wrote:
On 9/22/2017 6:06 AM, wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 7:46:39 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:35:43 AM UTC-4, GS wrote: Phil Allison wrote: GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? .... Phil ESR. Greg IIRC, you take the open circuit voltage and write it down. You take a voltage reading under a known fixed load and write that down. You plug those two voltage readings along with the load resistance value into a formula (that I can't recall) and you get the internal resistance of the battery. Which voltage do you use? When you apply the load, the voltage starts to drop. So, which voltage along that curve do you use? And when you "let go", the voltage won't return to the original level. Note that the voltage at the instant you apply the load won't be available unless you use a scope, or some otherwise accurate sampling to measure it.. Great in theory, but not nearly so simple in practice. If you're applying a load suitable enough to cause a constant drift of voltage or the OC voltage doesn't return to pre test state, the load is too high for the battery in question or the battery is shot. Old School battery testers used to use a switch to select which resistor to load down the battery in question, AA, AAA, C, etc., while displaying the battery voltage on the meter. The only time I saw the meter drift downward was if selecting a D battery test for a AAA for instance. |
#19
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Sunday, 24 September 2017 19:32:47 UTC+1, John-Del wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 5:34:07 AM UTC-4, mike wrote: On 9/22/2017 6:06 AM, wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 7:46:39 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:35:43 AM UTC-4, GS wrote: Phil Allison wrote: GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition.. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells.. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? .... Phil ESR. Greg IIRC, you take the open circuit voltage and write it down. You take a voltage reading under a known fixed load and write that down.. You plug those two voltage readings along with the load resistance value into a formula (that I can't recall) and you get the internal resistance of the battery. Which voltage do you use? When you apply the load, the voltage starts to drop. So, which voltage along that curve do you use? And when you "let go", the voltage won't return to the original level. Note that the voltage at the instant you apply the load won't be available unless you use a scope, or some otherwise accurate sampling to measure it. Great in theory, but not nearly so simple in practice. If you're applying a load suitable enough to cause a constant drift of voltage or the OC voltage doesn't return to pre test state, the load is too high for the battery in question or the battery is shot. Old School battery testers used to use a switch to select which resistor to load down the battery in question, AA, AAA, C, etc., while displaying the battery voltage on the meter. The only time I saw the meter drift downward was if selecting a D battery test for a AAA for instance. If your battery voltage is drifting down, its ESR is drifting up. If you want to know what state it's in after the test you'd use the last voltage reading. But there's no point, if it's dropping noticeably either it's had its day or the test load is too high. NT |
#20
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On 9/24/2017 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, 24 September 2017 19:32:47 UTC+1, John-Del wrote: On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 5:34:07 AM UTC-4, mike wrote: On 9/22/2017 6:06 AM, wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 7:46:39 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:35:43 AM UTC-4, GS wrote: Phil Allison wrote: GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. A fresh AA alkaline measures 0.1 ohms or lower while a tired one measures 1 ohm or greater, a fresh 9V measures under 1 ohm. Along with a voltage test you have enough info to match or discard used cells. .... Phil What's a good way to do that ? ** Do what ? Test ESR or correlate it with open cct cell voltage? .... Phil ESR. Greg IIRC, you take the open circuit voltage and write it down. You take a voltage reading under a known fixed load and write that down. You plug those two voltage readings along with the load resistance value into a formula (that I can't recall) and you get the internal resistance of the battery. Which voltage do you use? When you apply the load, the voltage starts to drop. So, which voltage along that curve do you use? And when you "let go", the voltage won't return to the original level. Note that the voltage at the instant you apply the load won't be available unless you use a scope, or some otherwise accurate sampling to measure it. Great in theory, but not nearly so simple in practice. If you're applying a load suitable enough to cause a constant drift of voltage or the OC voltage doesn't return to pre test state, the load is too high for the battery in question or the battery is shot. Old School battery testers used to use a switch to select which resistor to load down the battery in question, AA, AAA, C, etc., while displaying the battery voltage on the meter. The only time I saw the meter drift downward was if selecting a D battery test for a AAA for instance. If your battery voltage is drifting down, its ESR is drifting up. If you want to know what state it's in after the test you'd use the last voltage reading. But there's no point, if it's dropping noticeably either it's had its day or the test load is too high. NT Do the math. How much current do you apply? How much voltage represents 0.1 ohm of ESR? Compare that to the change of voltage over a second when you apply that current to a brand new battery. The battery model is more than a resistor in series with a fixed voltage source. Maybe someone here can supply the actual model of a battery that represents the voltage over time for a given current as a function of recent history of the battery load. The only way I got usable ESR results for matching cells was to apply a square wave switching from one non-zero load to a different non-zero load and measuring the amplitude of the square wave...always using the same frequency of square wave. The devil is in the details. |
#21
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What is the proper way to test alkaline batteries?
On Monday, 25 September 2017 02:03:00 UTC+1, mike wrote:
On 9/24/2017 12:29 PM, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 September 2017 19:32:47 UTC+1, John-Del wrote: On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 5:34:07 AM UTC-4, mike wrote: On 9/22/2017 6:06 AM, wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 7:46:39 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote: On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:35:43 AM UTC-4, GS wrote: Phil Allison wrote: GS wrote: -------------------- Phil Allison ** The ESR of a cell or battery is a good guide to its condition. |
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