Simple question:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

On Android, I am currently testing these GSM/CDMA signal strength apps,
where you can see my actual screenshot results in the photos below.

01 Network Cell Info Lite, version 3.30:
http://i.cubeupload.com/HoKTav.jpg
http://wilysis.com/networkcellinfo
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...s.cellinfolite

02 Network Signal Info, version 3.63.01:
http://i.cubeupload.com/2zK8Ys.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...android.telnet

03 GSM Signal Monitoring, version 4.02:
http://i.cubeupload.com/V9O0Gg.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...almonitorin g

04 Netmonitor, version 1.2.15:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TfDJaS.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ene.netmonitor

05 CellID Info:, version 1.2.2:
http://i.cubeupload.com/X3gsfb.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ere.cellidinfo

06 RF Toolbox (Cell Monitor), version 2.26:
http://i.cubeupload.com/y2YfEV.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...apps.rftoolbox

07 WiGle WiFi Wardriving (which also reports cellular towers):
http://i.cubeupload.com/ZPva3O.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...e.wigleandroid

08. OpenSignal, version 5.10:
http://i.cubeupload.com/BwfSFa.jpg
https://opensignal.com/app/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...se3.opensignal
etc.

On iOs, I looked for similar apps, and found this:

01 OpenSignal, version 4.0.5 (but it doesn't seem to report the nearby
tower and signal strength):
http://i.cubeupload.com/rmPsVg.jpg
https://itunes.apple.com/app/opensignal/id598298030

The one bad thing is that all these apps only show one cellular tower, even
though I know I have *two* microtowers inside my house, so, I think I need
to find a better app which will show *all* the cellular towers it sees.

To that end, I ask this scientific debugging question:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

The Troll is back!

Please don't feed the troll!

On 02/16/2017 12:05 PM, wrote:
The Troll is back!

AND NOW IT SEEMS THE FAG IS BACK

Please don't feed the troll!

AND DON'T FEED THE FAG WHO IS GAYER THAN SITRE MAGANA WHO IS THE OTHER
FAG THAT SUCKED OFF A 72 YEAR OLD MAN AND RAPED A DOG ON VIDEO.

On 2017-02-16, Stijn De Jong wrote:
Simple question:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

[...]

The one bad thing is that all these apps only show one cellular tower, even
though I know I have *two* microtowers inside my house, so, I think I need
to find a better app which will show *all* the cellular towers it sees.

To that end, I ask this scientific debugging question:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

I use OpenSignal on my Android, in the UK. It currently shows '100
nearby' cell towers on the first page (where your screenshot shows '0
nearby') and they are shown as points on the map within a mile or two of
where I am (in a large busy city). But I'm pretty sure that comes from
the OpenSignal server not from the phone's own hardware. Likewise the
information it claims to have about nearby WiFi hot spots. The phone
and Google work out where you are and OpenSignal send you the data they
have for that area.

So if OpenSignal have few users in your area they'll have little or
nothing to tell you about.

Your phone will be able to tell OpenSignal about the cell tower it is
currently connected to, and OpenSignal can add that to their database.
If the operator of that cell tower has made its location public,
OpenSignal will even be able to place it accurately on the map -
otherwise they'll have to estimate its position from the signal
information their users provide.

I don't know the other apps you mention.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

On 2/16/2017 10:36 AM, Whiskers wrote:
On 2017-02-16, Stijn De Jong wrote:
Simple question:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

[...]

The one bad thing is that all these apps only show one cellular tower, even
though I know I have *two* microtowers inside my house, so, I think I need
to find a better app which will show *all* the cellular towers it sees.

To that end, I ask this scientific debugging question:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

I use OpenSignal on my Android, in the UK. It currently shows '100
nearby' cell towers on the first page (where your screenshot shows '0
nearby') and they are shown as points on the map within a mile or two of
where I am (in a large busy city). But I'm pretty sure that comes from
the OpenSignal server not from the phone's own hardware. Likewise the
information it claims to have about nearby WiFi hot spots. The phone
and Google work out where you are and OpenSignal send you the data they
have for that area.

So if OpenSignal have few users in your area they'll have little or
nothing to tell you about.

Your phone will be able to tell OpenSignal about the cell tower it is
currently connected to, and OpenSignal can add that to their database.
If the operator of that cell tower has made its location public,
OpenSignal will even be able to place it accurately on the map -
otherwise they'll have to estimate its position from the signal
information their users provide.

I don't know the other apps you mention.

Works on iPhone also

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:54:17 -0500, Zaidy036 wrote:

Works on iPhone also

In my first post I placed OpenSignal last on the list of Android apps
simply because OpenSignal mostly seemed to be a lookup to Internet
databases, which isn't what I'm after.

I'm seeking a real-time scanner, and particularly I'm trying to see how my
two cellular micro towers are doing inside my house compared to the
cellular signals from outside (from towers that are a few miles away).

Since I'm out in the boonies, sort of where Jeff Liebermann lives, the
towers are few and far between and we know where they are (for the most
part).

The one potentially nice thing that OpenSignal provided on Android was a
compass-like pointer toward the tower it's connected to; however, that
pointer doesn't seem even remotely aligned with where I know that tower to
be, so, I'm not sure if that compass-like pointer is fluff or if there is a
major reflection of radio waves going on off of someone's solar panel array
or expansive windows overlooking the valley below.

I do know that the seemingly errant OpenSignal pointer is consistent, so,
it pointed in (what seems like) the wrong direction yesterday, and it's
pointing in the same direction today.

On the iPad, OpenSignal fared miserably, but that might be solely due to
the fact that the iPad has T-Mobile for cellular data only. The iPad does
not have a voice service on the SIM card. So maybe these apps only work
with phones and not with tablets?

In article , Stijn De Jong
wrote:

On the iPad, OpenSignal fared miserably, but that might be solely due to
the fact that the iPad has T-Mobile for cellular data only.

that's not why

The iPad does
not have a voice service on the SIM card. So maybe these apps only work
with phones and not with tablets?

no.

On 2017-02-16 20:57:54 +0000, Stijn De Jong said:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:54:17 -0500, Zaidy036 wrote:

Works on iPhone also

In my first post I placed OpenSignal last on the list of Android apps
simply because OpenSignal mostly seemed to be a lookup to Internet
databases, which isn't what I'm after.

I have OpenSignal on my iPhone and it located two Verizon towers in
the vicinity of my home out at Lake Nacimiento. It also provides usage
and signal data. I manages to do all I need of it.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Demo/File%20Feb%2016%2C%2014%2010%2045.png
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opensignal-speed-test-3g-4g/id598298030?mt=8

--


Regards,

Savageduck

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:14:49 -0800, Savageduck wrote:

I have OpenSignal on my iPhone and it located two Verizon towers in
the vicinity of my home out at Lake Nacimiento. It also provides usage
and signal data. I manages to do all I need of it.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Demo/File%20Feb%2016%2C%2014%2010%2045.png
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opensignal-speed-test-3g-4g/id598298030?mt=8

I think, as Jeff Liebermann noted, that the apps only query the phone to
figure out what signal strengths and tower iD information the phone has.

So that seems to be why all the apps can only see one tower at a time, and,
that one tower is only the tower of the current cellular provider.

If I popped in an AT&T SIM card, then I'd see the one AT&T tower I'm
connected to. I don't know if a phone can connect to two towers at once
though.

Can it?

On 02/16/2017 02:14 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-02-16 20:57:54 +0000, Stijn De Jong said:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:54:17 -0500, Zaidy036 wrote:

Works on iPhone also

In my first post I placed OpenSignal last on the list of Android apps
simply because OpenSignal mostly seemed to be a lookup to Internet
databases, which isn't what I'm after.

I have OpenSignal on my iPhone and it located two Verizon towers in
the vicinity of my home out at Lake Nacimiento. It also provides usage
and signal data. I manages to do all I need of it.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Demo/File%20Feb%2016%2C%2014%2010%2045.png
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opensignal-speed-test-3g-4g/id598298030?mt=8

I just installed it, but as soon as the opening black-text-on-white
screen (I guess I need to give some sort of permission) appears it
blinks out and the 'OpenSignal has stopped..." error message pops up.

I emailed the OpenSignal people, who want to know specifics...

I really want to know WHERE the cell towers are. T-Mobile has ****-poor
coverage in out-of-the-way places and rather than driving around in
circles I'd like to at least head toward a tower. Will this do what I want?

--
Cheers, Bev
Self Test for Paranoia: You know you have it when you can't
think of anything that's your own fault.

On 2017-02-16 21:57, Stijn De Jong wrote:
The one potentially nice thing that OpenSignal provided on Android was a
compass-like pointer toward the tower it's connected to; however, that
pointer doesn't seem even remotely aligned with where I know that tower to
be, so, I'm not sure if that compass-like pointer is fluff or if there is a
major reflection of radio waves going on off of someone's solar panel array
or expansive windows overlooking the valley below.

There is no way the phone can determine the location of the tower from
the signal, the antenna is non-directional. It has to be determined from
a map of locations. Maybe the tower gives that info, I don't know.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

In article , Carlos E. R.
wrote:


There is no way the phone can determine the location of the tower from
the signal, the antenna is non-directional. It has to be determined from
a map of locations. Maybe the tower gives that info, I don't know.

they do.

long ago, i used to put an old flip phone into service mode and see the
lat/long of the towers as it handed off.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 09:25:27 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

There is no way the phone can determine the location of the tower from
the signal, the antenna is non-directional. It has to be determined from
a map of locations. Maybe the tower gives that info, I don't know.

That non-directional antenna explanation makes a ton of sense!
Thank you for being one of the few scientifically sound people here!

That explains my observation that the antenna location is not even close to
the direction that OpenSignal points to. It's essentially fluff.

That's pretty much the last straw on this silly OpenSignal app.
The more I look at this lousy OpenSignal app, the less I like it.

I had already put it as my last choice on Android since it was basically
far less functional than every other choice, but I kept it on the list
simply because it was the only tool I found that was also on iOS.

So OpenSignal was my only 1:1 comparison with iOS.

Like all the apps listed, OpenSignal was first written for Android, so
you'd think that when they finally ported the app to iOS that it would work
better.

It turns out OpenSignal stinks on iOS even worse than it stinks on Android.

If you're on iOS, you're stuck with it, but if you're on Android, my
recommendation is to ditch OpenSignal in favor of Jeff's number one app
(which is my #2 app becasuse I'm using teh freeware while Jeff is using the
Pro version) and my number one or number two apps (as listed in the op).

01 Network Cell Info Lite, version 3.30:
http://i.cubeupload.com/HoKTav.jpg
http://wilysis.com/networkcellinfo
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...s.cellinfolite

02 Network Signal Info, version 3.63.01:
http://i.cubeupload.com/2zK8Ys.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...android.telnet

If you want a log of the cell towers that your phone connected to, then the
app to use is my number 4 app:

04 Netmonitor, version 1.2.15:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TfDJaS.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ene.netmonitor

You won't be able to get logging or cell tower identification from iOS
unfortunately, so we should probably drop the iOS newsgroup from this
discussion as it's not relevant to them.

In message Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-02-16 21:57, Stijn De Jong wrote:
The one potentially nice thing that OpenSignal provided on Android was a
compass-like pointer toward the tower it's connected to; however, that
pointer doesn't seem even remotely aligned with where I know that tower to
be, so, I'm not sure if that compass-like pointer is fluff or if there is a
major reflection of radio waves going on off of someone's solar panel array
or expansive windows overlooking the valley below.

There is no way the phone can determine the location of the tower from
the signal,

Sure they can. The signal include Latitude and Longitude for the tower.

--
One by one the bulbs burned out, like long lives come to their expected
ends.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:36:42 +0000, Whiskers wrote:

I use OpenSignal on my Android, in the UK. It currently shows '100
nearby' cell towers on the first page (where your screenshot shows '0
nearby') and they are shown as points on the map within a mile or two of
where I am (in a large busy city). But I'm pretty sure that comes from
the OpenSignal server not from the phone's own hardware. Likewise the
information it claims to have about nearby WiFi hot spots. The phone
and Google work out where you are and OpenSignal send you the data they
have for that area.

So if OpenSignal have few users in your area they'll have little or
nothing to tell you about.

Your phone will be able to tell OpenSignal about the cell tower it is
currently connected to, and OpenSignal can add that to their database.
If the operator of that cell tower has made its location public,
OpenSignal will even be able to place it accurately on the map -
otherwise they'll have to estimate its position from the signal
information their users provide.

I don't know the other apps you mention.

Thanks for that information, as I have only been using these apps for one
day, so, I have only formed an initial impression out of the apps.

My selection process was simple:
1. I googled and read articles for the best iOS/Android cellular scanners.
2. I downloaded all the viable suggestions (about a score of apps)
3. I deleted, on sight, the obnoxious ones (I have an eye for that)
4. I then tested what was left and ordered them in best to worst (so far)

At that point, I noticed that all the apps had only a single tower listed,
so, that's when I asked you guys for assistance and expertise.

Jeff Liebermann confirms that most (if not all) only show one tower, which
is unfortunately because I'm trying to debug my house where I have 3 towers
at the bare minimum, to choose from (two of which are inside the house, one
of which is brand new).

However, Jeff found that my number 4 choice, NetMonitor, does list a page
of towers, so, I'm gonna explore that further.

I put OpenSignal *last* on my list, because it didn't seem to be all that
functional (it was actually completely non functional on the iPad, which
has a SIM card and a T-Mobile cellular data plan but not a voice plan, so
that might be the reason).

The one nice thing about OpenSignal is that it *points* to the connecting
tower, which is interesting in my case because my lookup of the tower shows
it to be in a different direction than which is pointed to by OpenSignal.

The rest of the OpenSignal information was, as you noted, all from a
database on the net, which isn't what I'm after here since I'm trying to
find my own cellular towers which are inside my own house, so they're not
likely to be on any OpenSignal database.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:36:42 +0000, Whiskers wrote:

I use OpenSignal on my Android, in the UK. It currently shows '100
nearby' cell towers on the first page (where your screenshot shows '0
nearby') and they are shown as points on the map within a mile or two of
where I am (in a large busy city). But I'm pretty sure that comes from
the OpenSignal server not from the phone's own hardware.

UPDATE:

I know everyone loves OpenSignal but I prefer an app that provides the
EXACT cellular source when, in my case, it's often a femtocell that is
never going to be on ANY Internet database.

To that end, see this post today on this topic, if it helps others.
o Galaxy S9 in UK - poor signal?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/0soPAvWzt78


On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 16:32:34 +0000 (UTC), Tony Mountifield wrote:

Ah, I could put my wife's SIM in my old phone to compare...
I do have the OpenSignal app on both.

I agree for cellular you need to be connected to the carrier, which is a
drawback - but luckily you have a second SIM card, where the apps I use can
handle two SIM cards (if the phone can handle two SIM cards of course).

I wouldn't suggest OpenSignal since it's an Internet lookup database which
uses triangulation (last I checked anyway) ... where I'd use one of the
apps in the references that does NOT need any access to the Internet.

I just looked on my phone where I have "Cellular-Z" freeware installed,
which seems to work well to show signal strength in RSSI, RSRP, RSRQ, &
SINR.
https://i.postimg.cc/W4zhW166/cellular01.jpg

In my case, I test femtocell signal and cellular repeater signals, where my
femtocell would never be in an Internet database.
https://i.postimg.cc/TPK3jHft/cellular02.jpg

o Cellular-Z, by JerseyHo
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z
"Cellular Z is a telecom signal quality and Wifi network info, channel
info software, the main functions are as follows:
1.Dual SIM mobile phone network information (SIM card serving cell, serving
cell signal quality,neighboring cells).
2.Wifi information (connected, nearby Wifi list, Wifi channel 2.5 and 5
GHz).
3. Current location information GPS Satellites
4. Device information (battery, hardware, system).
5.speedtest.
6.Map track,indoor coverage."

On 9/14/19 12:01 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
[ Nothing of any use, as always. ]

Go **** yourself.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
wrote:

02 Network Signal Info, version 3.63.01:
http://i.cubeupload.com/2zK8Ys.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...android.telnet

I use the Pro version:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.android.telnet2
Mostly, I just need a fast responding analog signal strength indicator
for aligning antennas and testing nanocellular base stations.

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

I've only tested a few such apps, but I don't recall seeing any that
did that. What the apps do is query the cell phone part of the
smartphone for cellular status information. I don't believe that apps
cannot control the cell phone and have it scan the neighborhood for
other cell sites. However, I'm not a programmer and might have this
wrong.

This app looks like it might do what you want:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parizene.netmonitor
See the "Limitations" section. It seems that if the cell phone
section doesn't display neighboring cells, then the app also can't
display them. I don't have time right now to try it.

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

Nope. Just one tower.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:27:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I use the Pro version:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.android.telnet2
Mostly, I just need a fast responding analog signal strength indicator
for aligning antennas and testing nanocellular base stations.

Hi Jeff,

You use my number 2 app, which validates that the app is pretty decent.

I know you know your stuff so I think it's a validation that I put those
apps in the order that I liked them, after testing them for only a few
minutes each (and after removing about as many that failed upon initial
inspection).

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

I've only tested a few such apps, but I don't recall seeing any that
did that.

Bummer.
The app that I *think* will give me nearby towers is WiGLE (which, I think
I recall giving me more than one cellular tower, but maybe I'm wrong).

As it is, I can only get 1 tower out of each app, and that tower is always
the same company as my supplier.

So, what I *want*, I can't find, which is an app that scans for all towers,
and simply reports the unique id and signal strength of those towers (which
is how WiFi apps work).

Why can't a cellular app work like a wifi app works (e.g., InSSIDer or
Fritz! Wlan, or WiFi Analyzer, etc.)?


What the apps do is query the cell phone part of the
smartphone for cellular status information. I don't believe that apps
cannot control the cell phone and have it scan the neighborhood for
other cell sites. However, I'm not a programmer and might have this
wrong.

WiFi apps seem to be able to scan for access points that they don't
themselves connect to, but the protocols are different.

So far, I have to agree with what you're saying, which is that I'm limited
on Android by the fact that I can only "see" the signal strength and unique
ID of a single tower at a time.

That's a bummer because I'm trying to debug why I'm not connecting to the
two micro towers I have inside my house for T-Mobile (one is a cellular
repeater while the other is connected to my router).

This app looks like it might do what you want:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parizene.netmonitor
See the "Limitations" section. It seems that if the cell phone
section doesn't display neighboring cells, then the app also can't
display them. I don't have time right now to try it.

Thanks for that suggestion since I only tested each cellular network
monitor for a few minutes yesterday.

Your suggestion was my #4 choice in the original post:
04 Netmonitor, version 1.2.15:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TfDJaS.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ene.netmonitor

Looking more closely at that app, I see there are four icons at the bottom,
where clicking on the "pencil and paper" icon shows a page full of
something.

That something is about a score of towers, with color codes of yellow and
red (and presumably green) with a time on the right and a description of
their location.

Here is one such line:

(green round dot) 40483 45813 2304 (yellow satellite icon)
California, USA, San Jose, CA 95121, 1656 Prime Place

I have to run out the door, so I'm not at all sure what this "pen and
pencil" page is trying to tell me, but I'll spend some more time on this
one app to see if it can show me *all* the towers it can see, and what
their signal strength is.

Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

Nope. Just one tower.

I think you found the app (NetMonitor) that shows "something" about more
towers; so I will dig further into what it is trying to tell me.

On 2017-02-16 21:44, Stijn De Jong wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:27:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Q: Does that app show you *all* the towers that your phone can see
(or does it only show the one tower that your phone is connected to)?

Nope. Just one tower.

I think you found the app (NetMonitor) that shows "something" about more
towers; so I will dig further into what it is trying to tell me.

I can mention one app that apparently finds all towers in the vicinity,
but the only info it says about them is an identifier code.

It is "MyProfiles". The goal of the app is to adjust phone settings
according to rules. A rule can trigger on a variety of things, and one
of them is location. The location can be done by GPS, but the app can
instead do it based on which towers it can detect. You can tell it to
trigger "home" if it sees the five towers near home.

This is not the tool you need, but proves that other towers can be
found. The app lists all towers found, and timestamps them. Apparently
only one is active, but somehow it displays how many are within range,
and in another window lists them.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:35:35 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

I can mention one app that apparently finds all towers in the vicinity,
but the only info it says about them is an identifier code.

It is "MyProfiles". The goal of the app is to adjust phone settings
according to rules. A rule can trigger on a variety of things, and one
of them is location. The location can be done by GPS, but the app can
instead do it based on which towers it can detect. You can tell it to
trigger "home" if it sees the five towers near home.

This is not the tool you need, but proves that other towers can be
found. The app lists all towers found, and timestamps them. Apparently
only one is active, but somehow it displays how many are within range,
and in another window lists them.

Thanks for the suggestion of MyProfiles.
There seems to be one from "Llab01 Inc."
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...yprofiles.lite

It certainly asks for a *lot* of permissions upon installing
(luckily, each one can be turned off individually)
- Device & app history
- Cellular data settings
- Identity
- Calendar
- Contacts
- Location
- SMS
- Phone
- Photos/Media/Files
- Wifi Connection information
- Bluetooth connection information
- Device ID & call information

But after using it for an hour, I can see that it's a powerful tool that
can "do stuff" (I'm not sure what yet) depending on what towers it is near.

I'll play with it a bit more, because it seems overall like a powerful
autoamtic doer of things. However, it's not a scanner, at least not only a
scanner.

On 2017-02-17 01:01, Stijn De Jong wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:35:35 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

I can mention one app that apparently finds all towers in the vicinity,
but the only info it says about them is an identifier code.

It is "MyProfiles". The goal of the app is to adjust phone settings
according to rules. A rule can trigger on a variety of things, and one
of them is location. The location can be done by GPS, but the app can
instead do it based on which towers it can detect. You can tell it to
trigger "home" if it sees the five towers near home.

This is not the tool you need, but proves that other towers can be
found. The app lists all towers found, and timestamps them. Apparently
only one is active, but somehow it displays how many are within range,
and in another window lists them.

Thanks for the suggestion of MyProfiles. There seems to be one from
"Llab01 Inc."
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...yprofiles.lite

It certainly asks for a *lot* of permissions upon installing (luckily,
each one can be turned off individually)
- Device & app history
- Cellular data settings
- Identity
- Calendar
- Contacts
- Location
- SMS
- Phone
- Photos/Media/Files
- Wifi Connection information
- Bluetooth connection information
- Device ID & call information

But after using it for an hour, I can see that it's a powerful tool that
can "do stuff" (I'm not sure what yet) depending on what towers it is near.

I'll play with it a bit more, because it seems overall like a powerful
autoamtic doer of things. However, it's not a scanner, at least not only a
scanner.

No, it certainly is not a scanner, but it uses scanning to do its own
stuff. I think the phone tries to connect to each tower, till it finds
the most appropriate one, and this tool records the activity to find the
approximate location with the minimal battery usage.

I just meant it as a proof that scanning all towers is possible.

I use it to turn off automatically the WiFi when I get out of home, or
when it detects the car bluetooth. Previously I also used it to
temporarily disable Internet while sleeping, for 8 hours, say.
Unfortunately this is no longer possible on Android 6, no permission to
turn off the data network.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:44:09 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote:

You use my number 2 app, which validates that the app is pretty decent.

BTW, Jeff ... the main reason your number one cellular-scanning app
selection wasn't my number one choice was that Network Signal Info has an
obnoxious "Parthian Shot" full-screen ad, which has to be x'd out in order
to truly quit out of the app.

Since you have the Pro version of that Network Signal Info app, you
probably don't see that Parthian Shot (some call it a "parting shot").

Without that Parthian Shot ad, it would have been my number one selection,
so, others reading this thread will know that it's a very functional app,
even with the obnoxious parting shot ad.

I liked the way they did the map feature of the Network Signal Info app
because tapping on a tower on the Google Map gave the cell id easier than
did most of the other apps which had similar Internet-based location-lookup
maps.

http://i.cubeupload.com/uHE3lA.jpg

The only problem is that I'm not sure how accurate those maps are since I
found multiple towers in different locations with the same supposedly
unique cell id.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:44:09 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
wrote:

So, what I *want*, I can't find, which is an app that scans for all towers,
and simply reports the unique id and signal strength of those towers (which
is how WiFi apps work).

Why can't a cellular app work like a wifi app works (e.g., InSSIDer or
Fritz! Wlan, or WiFi Analyzer, etc.)?

Your smartphone is an SDR (software defined radio) that is capable of
receiving all of the worlds cellular bands and sub-bands, and can
demodulate most any flavor of cellular protocol. However, this is not
a feature that the cellular providers find worthy of providing. Were
they to do so, you would have the equivalent of a hand held spectrum
and protocol analyzer. Such devices do exist, but not built onto a
smartphone platform, which lacks the horsepower to do the job:
http://www.gl.com/protocol-analyzer-for-wireless-and-ip-networks.html

So, you're stuck with only hearing what your smartphone is programmed
to hear, which I think means your cellular providers mode
(GSM,UMTS,CDMA, etc) and possibly filtered to limit reception to your
cellular vendors SID and NID numbers. I gotta play with Netmonitor
later to see if my Verizon phone will "see" Sprint sites. Verizon
roams onto Sprint when desperate. Both are CDMA, but on different RF
sub-bands. So far, I'm only seeing Verizon, but that might be because
I'm in a lousy location.

Also, the reason you can see any wi-fi access point that is
broadcasting its SSID, is that as newer and faster protocols are
added, compatibility with hearing management packets from the older
slower protocols is written into the spec so that the slower protocols
won't collide with the faster protocols. However, that can be
disabled with the Greenfield mode:
http://www.summitdata.com/blog/wi-fi-and-greenfield-mode-functionality/
where an AP can only hear other 802.11n AP's. There have also been
some casualties among the slower protocols, such as where 802.11n
requires that 802.11 and 802.11b speeds NOT be supported. However,
since the broacasts are always sent at the slowest speeds for that
protocol, a higher speed 802.11n AP can always hear if an 802.11 or
802.11b AP is present.

Bottom line. Wi-Fi downward compatiblity and scanning works because
it was designed to work that way. Not so with cellular frequencies,
modes, protocols, vendors, and instruments.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:06:23 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

So, you're stuck with only hearing what your smartphone is programmed
to hear, which I think means your cellular providers mode
(GSM,UMTS,CDMA, etc) and possibly filtered to limit reception to your
cellular vendors SID and NID numbers. I gotta play with Netmonitor
later to see if my Verizon phone will "see" Sprint sites. Verizon
roams onto Sprint when desperate. Both are CDMA, but on different RF
sub-bands. So far, I'm only seeing Verizon, but that might be because
I'm in a lousy location.

Thanks Jeff for that detailed explanation of why I seem to only see the one
tower's cell id that I'm currently connected to.

My problem set is that I installed two different types of local microtowers
and I just wanted to know which ones I'm connected to, and at what
strength.

I have both iOS and Android devices, so it doesn't matter to me which I use
(the iOS devices have far larger screens, so they're preferable).

After running the various programs since last night, I can say that there
are two ways, overall, to get a "survey" of local towers.

1. The real-time apps, such as Network Signal Info, will constantly change
their cellid as they move from tower to tower, so, with screenshots, I can
capture that information for later use. (The tower changes seem to happen
more when I have lousy signal strength than when I have stronger signal
strength.)

2. The logging apps, such as Netmonitor & MyProfiles, seem to log the
various celltower IDs so that we can see a history over time of the cell
towers we have connected to.

Since they only show towers as numbers, it's hard at the moment to
correlate these logs to the two microtowers I have installed. So I'm going
to have to run a few surveys, near home (with and without the microtowers
powered up) and away from home (to remove from the logs the towers that
aren't within 1,000 feet or so of the house).

Over time, I should be able to figure out what the unique cellid of the
microtowers is (which may be a function of their MAC address or serial
numbers for all I know).

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 03:37:57 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
wrote:

Over time, I should be able to figure out what the unique cellid of the
microtowers is (which may be a function of their MAC address or serial
numbers for all I know).

For CDMA femtocell, the unique ID is a conglomeration of:
MCC (Mobile Country Code)
SID (System ID)
NID (Network ID)
BID (Base Station ID)

For GSM femtocell, it's:
MCC (Mobile Country Code)
MNC (Mobile Network Code)
LAC (Location Area Code)
CID (Cell ID)

Stolen from:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/other/Cellular/osm_blog
Read the footnotes, which have some Android bugs listed.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

The great news is that I've gotten my cellular signal up from around
-100dBm to consistently better than -60dBm, which is an astoundingly
astronomical improvement in signal strength!

For example, here is a reading, just now, of -53dBm on my cellphone:
http://i.cubeupload.com/GEYEzS.jpg

From what I've read, cellular signal doesn't get much better than that.

However, there is so much data that each of these apps output that I'm
still going through all the useful information to figure out exactly which
device is doing what (since I have an old micro tower and a new femto tower
in my house).

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

Summary of the freebie app selected after a few days of testing.

I've dumped the freeware version of Network Signal Info because it kept
hanging, and opted to use as my primary real-time app "Network Cell Info
Lite" (The best logging app was NetMonitor).

One nice thing about Network Signal Info payware is that it reports not
only the current (aka registered) cell, but also the neighbor cell
strengths.
http://wilysis.com/networkcellinfo

Here are some screenshots of today's scan to help you see what it reports.

The good news is that I've brought my signal strength in the mountains,
miles from the nearest T-Mobile tower, up from around minus ninety to minus
one hundred decibels to consistently better than minus fifty-five to minus
sixty-five decibels (which is astounding!).

Here are the results of a scan this morning from my new "gsm" folder:
http://i.cubeupload.com/lgDafB.jpg

In this scan are the unique cell tower identification numbers:
http://i.cubeupload.com/5H7qmX.jpg

The second tab shows the ever-changing raw data in text format:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3gMofW.jpg

While the third tab shows a time-sequence graph showing consistency:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3rDsHX.jpg

There are multiple plots of multiple types of signal strengths:
http://i.cubeupload.com/4HQqh8.jpg

And a quick table of DATA ON/OFF connection percentage statistics:
http://i.cubeupload.com/NQ0xJU.jpg

You can export the entire database in multiple file formats:
http://i.cubeupload.com/W1AAaK.jpg

And there is a nice summary page of the device & sim card information:
http://i.cubeupload.com/hCXKXJ.jpg

I may end up getting the payware if I can't find a freeware app that
reports the neighbor cell strengths, which would also be useful
information.

But there are plenty of freeware apps to explore, e.g., this MIT app:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/CellTracker.shtml

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

This is a question and initial observation for Jeff Liebermann.

QUESTION:
Does a cellular booster propagate the original cell tower identification?
(Or does the boosted signal have its own cell tower identification number?)

OBSERVATION:
1. I can range my cellular signal strength by almost half a million times:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zN4Dkb.jpg

2. I ran an experiment, starting with a stead very good signal strength:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TPLLXF.jpg

3. Then I unplugged, one by one, the two micro towers in my house:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ciKH3h.jpg

Interestingly, when I unplugged the router-connected micro tower, I could
see the unique cell tower ID change immediately to a set of cell towers
that are known to be within a few miles of me.

Yet, when I unplugged the cellular booster, the signal dropped, but the
cell towers simply went to a much larger set of cell towers, some of which
are known to be ten or fifteen miles away. However, I could still see the
set of towers in the prior step in the makeup.

My initial assumption (which needs to be tested) is two fold:
a. It seems the router-connected micro tower has its own unique cell id.
b. It seems the booster may simply propagate the "real" cell tower cell id.

Does that make sense?

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:07:16 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote:

Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
area?

This is a question and initial observation for Jeff Liebermann.

Why me?

Does a cellular booster propagate the original cell tower identification?
(Or does the boosted signal have its own cell tower identification number?)

By "booster" are you referring to a bi-directional amplifier like
products from Wilson:
http://www.wilsonpro.com/residential-cell-phone-signal-boosters
or Wi-Ex (zBoost)?
https://www.signalboosters.com/zboost-signal-boosters
I so, they repeat exactly the original signals both incoming and
outgoing. What you hear is the tower ID. The device does not
generate any new data or belch a new tower ID.

However, if you're referring to a Femtocell or similar internet
connected microcellular device, the answer is yes, they do have their
own unique ID.

My initial assumption (which needs to be tested) is two fold:
a. It seems the router-connected micro tower has its own unique cell id.

Yep.

b. It seems the booster may simply propagate the "real" cell tower cell id.

Yep.

Does that make sense?

Yep.

How far away do you think the strongest (or nearest) T-mobile cell
tower is located from your test location? Any possibility that one of
your neighbors might have a T-mobile microcell box that you're
hearing? I'm suspicious of the rather strong tower signal.

Back of the envelope calculation:
+27dBm Estimated transmit power from the cell site
+10dB My guess of the panel antenna gain
-53dBm Receive signal level from your test.

Path loss = 27 + 10 + 53 = 90dB
Calculating the distance where the path loss would be -90dB at 700MHz:
http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-free-space-loss
is about 0.7 miles or about 4,000 ft. The cell tower would need to be
rather close to your location for that to work. Like I said, I'm
suspicious of what you're measuring.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 23:13:31 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

This is a question and initial observation for Jeff Liebermann.
Why me?

Good question. I guess it's because I've seen so much made-up stuff from
the likes of nospam, that you're one of the few people here we can trust.

Does a cellular booster propagate the original cell tower identification?
(Or does the boosted signal have its own cell tower identification number?)

By "booster" are you referring to a bi-directional amplifier like
products from Wilson.

T-mobile gives out a signal booster where you put on unit in the window and
another unit in the middle of the house.
https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-14947

It's supposed to "boost" the signal.
https://support.t-mobile.com/communi...signal-booster

If so, they repeat exactly the original signals both incoming and
outgoing. What you hear is the tower ID. The device does not
generate any new data or belch a new tower ID.

I think this is the case that the signal booster passes through the
original tower ID since I don't see any *new* tower ids when I hook up the
signal booster. Of course, it could just be that the signal booster isn't
working because the signal strength doesn't get any better either.

However, if you're referring to a Femtocell or similar internet
connected microcellular device, the answer is yes, they do have their
own unique ID.

I do have a femtocell also, and that *does* have its own unique ID which I
have identified already.
https://support.t-mobile.com/communi...g-lte-cellspot

So the question was just about whether the booster generates its own unique
cell id or if it just passes through the cell ID of a tower somewhere in
Santa Cruz or San Jose.


My initial assumption (which needs to be tested) is two fold:
a. It seems the router-connected micro tower has its own unique cell id.

Yep.

b. It seems the booster may simply propagate the "real" cell tower cell id.

Yep.

Does that make sense?

Yep.

Thanks. That made sense.
By the way, long ago you helped me set up a Linksys WRT54G as a wired
extender (yes, you cautioned against it in favor of better solutions).

Do you think it makes a difference if I hook up the femtocell to the wired
extender versus the main router?

How far away do you think the strongest (or nearest) T-mobile cell
tower is located from your test location?

The nearest tower is only a couple of miles away, but consistently I get
connected to towers that are ten and fifteen miles away. They bounce around
as I watch them from the MIT CellTracker app.


Any possibility that one of
your neighbors might have a T-mobile microcell box that you're
hearing? I'm suspicious of the rather strong tower signal.

Without the booster and without the femtocell, I get horrid signal, roughly
minus 90 to minus 105 decibels. With the femtocell, I get minus 60 decibels
consistently. I can even have stronger cellular signal strength than wifi
signal strength, which is amazing.

And, yes, *all* my neighbors have either a booster or a femtocell or they
use WiFi calling (since bad signal is ubiquitous in these hills).

Back of the envelope calculation:
+27dBm Estimated transmit power from the cell site
+10dB My guess of the panel antenna gain
-53dBm Receive signal level from your test.

Path loss = 27 + 10 + 53 = 90dB
Calculating the distance where the path loss would be -90dB at 700MHz:
http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-free-space-loss
is about 0.7 miles or about 4,000 ft. The cell tower would need to be
rather close to your location for that to work. Like I said, I'm
suspicious of what you're measuring.

Thanks for showing me how to do the math to approximate the distance to the
antenna based on the received signal strength indication.

I must not have stated clearly which is that the only time I get minus
sixty decibels is when the femtotower is in place, where it's only a few
feet from my phone.

Otherwise, I get around minus a hundred decibels, which sucks.
+27dBm Estimated transmit power from the cell site
+10dB My guess of the panel antenna gain
-100dBm Receive signal level from your test.

Path loss = 27 + 10 + 100 = 137dB
At 700MHz:
http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-free-space-loss
Puts the antenna at about 2 miles away.

There *are* antennas two miles away (and sometimes I connect to them); so
the math isn't as bad as I thought. I also connect to antennas ten and
fifteen miles away, but that's driving distance, so I'd have to look at the
distance as the crow flies, which could be in the less-than-five-mile
range.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 20:44:18 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 23:13:31 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Back of the envelope calculation:
+27dBm Estimated transmit power from the cell site
+10dB My guess of the panel antenna gain
-53dBm Receive signal level from your test.

Path loss = 27 + 10 + 53 = 90dB
Calculating the distance where the path loss would be -90dB at 700MHz:
http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-free-space-loss
is about 0.7 miles or about 4,000 ft. The cell tower would need to be
rather close to your location for that to work. Like I said, I'm
suspicious of what you're measuring.

Thanks for showing me how to do the math to approximate the distance to the
antenna based on the received signal strength indication.

Well, I screwed up a little. I left out the antenna gain of your cell
phone, which I assumed to be 0dB at 700MHz. That's probably
optimistic and -3dB would be more reasonable. So, the calcs should be
something like:

+27dBm Estimated transmit power from the cell site
+10dB My guess of the tower panel antenna gain
??dB Calculated path loss
-3dB My guess of the cell phone antenna gain
-53dBm Receive signal level from your test.

Path loss = 27 + 10 - (-3) - (-53) = 93dB
Calculating the distance where the path loss would be -93dB at 700MHz:
http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-free-space-loss
is about 0.94 miles or about 5,000 ft. The cell tower would need to
be rather close to your location or you're getting your signal from
the neighbors.

I must not have stated clearly which is that the only time I get minus
sixty decibels is when the femtotower is in place, where it's only a few
feet from my phone.

The +27dBm (500mw) and +10dBm antenna gain are based on my guess(tm)
of the power per carrier for a real cell tower and a typical panel
antenna and with some reduction in power thanks to transmit power
control. Power levels and antenna gains for DAS (distributed antenna
system), small cell, microcell, picocell, analog repeaters, etc are
much lower.
http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Tutorials/femtocell-vs-picocell-vs-microcell.html
I can build you a table for the various device that will produce more
accurate results.

There *are* antennas two miles away (and sometimes I connect to them); so
the math isn't as bad as I thought. I also connect to antennas ten and
fifteen miles away, but that's driving distance, so I'd have to look at the
distance as the crow flies, which could be in the less-than-five-mile
range.

Also look at the antenna gains on both ends, any RF obstructions
including Fresnel zone blocking, and the accuracy of the signal level
meter in the cell phone. Remember, in RF real RF power, sensitivity,
antenna gains, and path loss, are always worse than calculated.

I don't want to comment on the T-Mobile signal booster due to lack of
experience with the device and general lack of info on what's inside.
If you can supply an FCC ID number, I might be able to excavate
something useful from the FCC ID data dumpster.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 13:46:55 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I don't want to comment on the T-Mobile signal booster due to lack of
experience with the device and general lack of info on what's inside.
If you can supply an FCC ID number, I might be able to excavate
something useful from the FCC ID data dumpster.

Just returned from a hike in the mountains. It's freezing in the mountains
today. You are sending cold winds from Santa Cruz over the ridges!

T-Mobile calls *everything* a "Personal CellSpot" so, this is a photo of my
signal booster from T-Mobile:
http://i.cubeupload.com/6Jpa5v.jpg

On the back of the existing devices are these FCC IDs:

1. Window Unit: FCC ID YETD24NU
https://fccid.io/YETD24NU
User manual: https://fccid.io/document.php?id=2270465

2. Coverage Unit: FCC ID YETD24CU
https://fccid.io/YETD24CU
User manual: https://fccid.io/document.php?id=2270512

What I'm mostly interested is in figuring out how to tell if they're
working, since I can't seem to get different results with or without them
hooked up (and, of course, with the femtocell connected to my router turned
off).

I'm guessing based on the experimental results (which could be misleading)
that they just pass through the cell tower id.