Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about
this.

I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals
available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well.

Example:

Search for pioneer vsx pdf would list any available PDF's on pioneer
receivers.


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.

P.S.

I checked and people are already doing this for manuals for computer games,
Honda car shop manuals, you name it.

mz

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...
Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about
this.

I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals
available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well.

Example:

Search for pioneer vsx pdf would list any available PDF's on pioneer
receivers.


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.

Mark D. Zacharias screams, but nobody listens:
P.S.

I checked and people are already doing this for manuals for computer games,
Honda car shop manuals, you name it.

I have found some useful Linux stuff on Kazaa, eMule and other P2P
programs. Searched under "documents" for "Linux".

So this looks like a very good idea.
Will manufacturers start "attacking" us like RIAA done for MP3 files and MPAA
(IIRC) for video files?

Chaos.
--
Chaos Master® | "I'm going under,
Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you
ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever,
ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through"
---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under"

"Chaos Master" wrote in message
...
Mark D. Zacharias screams, but nobody listens:
P.S.

I checked and people are already doing this for manuals for computer
games,
Honda car shop manuals, you name it.

I have found some useful Linux stuff on Kazaa, eMule and other P2P
programs. Searched under "documents" for "Linux".

So this looks like a very good idea.
Will manufacturers start "attacking" us like RIAA done for MP3 files and
MPAA
(IIRC) for video files?

Chaos.
--
Chaos Master® | "I'm going under,
Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you
ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever,
ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through"
---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under"


Will manufacturers start "attacking" us like RIAA done for MP3 files and
MPAA

I sincerely doubt it. For one thing RIAA and the record companies have
billions at stake. So they have hired guns and bribed legislators to go
after the downloaders. Sharing service data is precisely what P2P is
"supposed" to be doing as a legitimate(legal) service.

Mark Z.

P.S.

If a manufacturer thought they were RIAA and didn't like their service
manual(s) being posted, the first response would likely be a "cease and
desist" letter, not a lawsuit.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"Chaos Master" wrote in message
...
Mark D. Zacharias screams, but nobody listens:
P.S.

I checked and people are already doing this for manuals for computer
games,
Honda car shop manuals, you name it.

I have found some useful Linux stuff on Kazaa, eMule and other P2P
programs. Searched under "documents" for "Linux".

So this looks like a very good idea.
Will manufacturers start "attacking" us like RIAA done for MP3 files and
MPAA
(IIRC) for video files?

Chaos.
--
Chaos Master® | "I'm going under,
Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you
ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever,
ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through"
---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under"


Will manufacturers start "attacking" us like RIAA done for MP3 files and
MPAA

I sincerely doubt it. For one thing RIAA and the record companies have
billions at stake. So they have hired guns and bribed legislators to go
after the downloaders. Sharing service data is precisely what P2P is
"supposed" to be doing as a legitimate(legal) service.

Mark Z.

In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care
about this.

I assume you are talking about service manuals.

I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this
sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near
my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being
copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the
manufacturers.

I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video
manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as
well.

I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have
large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful,
but it is a *HUGE* project.

When I need a manual, I need it NOW. I'd hate to wait for the
respective manual hosting system to come online. Also, there are often
some very useful bulletins that are not part of the manuals. Sometimes
bulletins can save weeks of head scratching when faced with an obscure
intermittent problem.

Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I prefer printed manuals. I also prefer
manuals that are maintained by the manufacturer. Assuming we could lash
together an army of a few thousand contributors and fairly divide the
manual preparation work, I don't think we could trust that the manuals
are or could be kept up to date. For example, if a local Joe purchased
a manual for model XYZ a few years ago and put it online, I doubt if
the manufacturer will notify Joe if there is a future bulletin or
manual correction issued for that model.

In terms of user manuals, many manufacturers are providing current
model user manuals online. I assume that they will continue this
service for future models and keep the current stuff online until they
run out of disk space. I don't expect manufacturers to go through their
archives and reprint manuals for long discontinued products.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

See comments inserted. - mz



"Barry Mann" wrote in message
om...
In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care
about this.

I assume you are talking about service manuals.

I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this
sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near
my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being
copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the
manufacturers.

I think manufactuers are much more blase' about this these days, with few
manuals having any copyright. Just less work for them to do support-wise.


I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video
manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as
well.

I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics?

Better than nothing, I would say.
The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY.
Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just
clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board
location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to
the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do.


Most of my manuals have
large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful,
but it is a *HUGE* project.

When I need a manual, I need it NOW. I'd hate to wait for the
respective manual hosting system to come online. Also, there are often
some very useful bulletins that are not part of the manuals. Sometimes
bulletins can save weeks of head scratching when faced with an obscure
intermittent problem.

This has always been the province of the authorized servicer, whether the
service data is printed or electronic.


Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I prefer printed manuals. I also prefer
manuals that are maintained by the manufacturer. Assuming we could lash
together an army of a few thousand contributors and fairly divide the
manual preparation work, I don't think we could trust that the manuals
are or could be kept up to date. For example, if a local Joe purchased
a manual for model XYZ a few years ago and put it online, I doubt if
the manufacturer will notify Joe if there is a future bulletin or
manual correction issued for that model.

In terms of user manuals, many manufacturers are providing current
model user manuals online. I assume that they will continue this
service for future models and keep the current stuff online until they
run out of disk space. I don't expect manufacturers to go through their
archives and reprint manuals for long discontinued products.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 05/16/04
at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

See comments inserted. - mz

"Barry Mann" wrote in message
. com...
In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:
[ ... ]

I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics?

Better than nothing, I would say.
The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some
are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just
clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit
board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and
it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section,
that's easy to do.

The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I
could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a
servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for
very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic
parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial
value, but would be important to someone for other reasons.

The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out
dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better)

The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered
on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the
inept.

I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online,
but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to
participate in an effort to get them online.

[ ... ]

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

Barry Mann wrote:
In , on 05/16/04
at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:


See comments inserted. - mz


"Barry Mann" wrote in message
.com...

In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

[ ... ]


I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics?


Better than nothing, I would say.
The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some
are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just
clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit
board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and
it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section,
that's easy to do.


The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I
could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a
servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for
very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic
parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial
value, but would be important to someone for other reasons.

The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out
dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better)

The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered
on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the
inept.

I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online,
but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to
participate in an effort to get them online.

[ ... ]

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------


Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix
their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one.
When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean
counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts.
Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold.

Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99
doorbuster
special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they
care about is the cheapest initial price.
mike

--
Return address is VALID.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For
many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair
manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I
think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give
the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce
PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them,
wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention
the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in
the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine
the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them?
Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them.
However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer
science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of
these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals,
however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That
is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But
usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit
the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were
just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should
not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps
them out of unqualified hands.

Just My Opinion,
"Stepping off my Soapbox"
Rick



"mike" wrote in message ...
Barry Mann wrote:
In , on 05/16/04
at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:


See comments inserted. - mz


"Barry Mann" wrote in message
.com...

In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

[ ... ]


I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics?


Better than nothing, I would say.
The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some
are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just
clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit
board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and
it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section,
that's easy to do.


The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I
could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a
servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for
very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic
parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial
value, but would be important to someone for other reasons.

The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out
dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better)

The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered
on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the
inept.

I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online,
but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to
participate in an effort to get them online.

[ ... ]

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------


Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix
their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one.
When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean
counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts.
Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold.

Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99
doorbuster
special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they
care about is the cheapest initial price.
mike

--
Return address is VALID.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

"Barry Mann" wrote in message
om...
In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care
about this.

I assume you are talking about service manuals.

I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this
sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near
my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being
copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the
manufacturers.

I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video
manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as
well.

I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have
large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful,
but it is a *HUGE* project.

There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in
microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and
converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the
format size doesn't really matter.

I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes
etc work on Kazaa.

I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but
requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee.

Still considering this issue. The fee would probably filter out some of the
non-tech types, but then again participation would probably be almost
non-existent.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"BitBanger" wrote in message
...

"Barry Mann" wrote in message
om...
In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care
about this.

I assume you are talking about service manuals.

I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this
sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near
my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being
copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the
manufacturers.

I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video
manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as
well.

I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have
large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful,
but it is a *HUGE* project.

There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist
in
microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and
converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the
format size doesn't really matter.

Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module
:
I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes
etc work on Kazaa.

I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but
requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee.

eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses).

BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info
and people download them whenever they want the file.

[]s

--
© 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under,
Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you
ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever,
UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through"
---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under"

I'll take a look at them. I was introduced to Streamload via a CBS Radio
Mystery Theater forum - they trade them that way. (With the permission of
the rights-owner, Mr. Himan Brown, that is.)

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Chaos Master" wrote in message
...
Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in
module
:
I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the
nodes
etc work on Kazaa.

I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal
but
requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee.

eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses).

BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file
info
and people download them whenever they want the file.

[]s

--
© 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under,
Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you
ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever,
UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through"
---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under"

Chaos Master wrote:

Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module
:
I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes
etc work on Kazaa.

I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but
requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee.

eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses).

BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info
and people download them whenever they want the file.

Also, there is DC++.
---
El Meda.

http://ingemeda.tripod.com/

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:27:24 -0300, Chaos Master
wrote:

Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module
:
I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes
etc work on Kazaa.

I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but
requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee.

eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses).

BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info
and people download them whenever they want the file.

[]s

Everybody talks Kazaa whenever P2P comes up.
I've found Kazaa to be the worst.(endless viruses,worms etc... not to
mention all the bogus files.)
I know there are scores of P2P services available, some legit and in
the open some not.
I've used Winmix off and on ever since it went online and found it to
be the most productive and safe.(Not one virus/trojan/worm in all the
time I've used it.)
I don't know if it's set up for documents or such, but if so would be
ideal for exchange of manuals.(I'm assuming they'd be in pdf format.)
I've also been trying out edonkey the past few weeks with fair
results. That might be an option as they seem to have a wide variety
of file types available.
I think the main issue of contention as to making this work is getting
some techs to warm up to the idea of sharing their manuals.(most I've
talked to have the attitude that if they had to pay big bucks for a
service manual so should everyone else.)
We all know that these manuals are priced far above anything
resembling a fair market value. Even more so considering that most
small repair shops might not use the manual more than once.
Some in the repair industry feel the overcharging is a good thing,
after all it helps keep many smaller shops from taking repair work on
hardware that they'll have to pay 50 bucks or more up front for a
service manual just to get started on a job.
The high price coupled with the policy not to sell service manuals at
the consumer level also keeps the vast majority of the consumer market
from servicing their own appliances.(please, I don't need to hear from
all in the service industry about how it's too dangerous to allow
consumers to attempt their own repair jobs. Not all consumers are as
incapable as most would believe.)
There ARE thousands of DIY'ers out here that go the distance to learn
how to do the work themselves.( I had the advantage of growing up in a
TV & Radio repair shop as well as having gone through BE & E in my
service days, so I realize I may be a bit of an exception. But have
seen many hobbyist that had many hours of schooling in electronics
courtesy their local votech.)
One way of looking at it could be that if more manuals were swapped it
would force down the price of service manuals for all.
Only those with monopolizing the market in mind could see this as a
bad thing.
I can remember the days when a Sams service pack was available to all
for as little as a buck. Haven't even seen Sams manuals since most of
the hobby shops went out.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:05:19 +0200, "BitBanger" wrote:


"Barry Mann" wrote in message
. com...
In , on 05/16/04
at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said:

Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care
about this.

I assume you are talking about service manuals.

I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this
sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near
my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being
copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the
manufacturers.

I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video
manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as
well.

I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard
to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have
large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful,
but it is a *HUGE* project.

There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in
microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and
converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the
format size doesn't really matter.


Well, manuals ARE copyrighted. It's not against the law to reverse
engineer them tho'.
In fact many of the aftermarket manuals I've seen appear identical to
their oem counterparts.
Face it though. sharing a manual for free would at best be difficult
to procecute.
Certainly a far more trivial crime when compared to the highway
robbery of the oem's and the prices they charge for a manual.

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ...
Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info,

Wanna bet? I have in the realm of 200 service manuals here. I just
pulled 10 at random out of the drawers, every single one of them
has a copyright notice on it.

and even if they did, they don't really care about
this.

Again, wanna bet? A number of "public service" sites that have both
user and service manuals have been hammered by the manufacturers and
forced to remove scans, PDF's even retypes of copyrighted manuals
from the site. The most recent example I am aware of is Nikon going
around and forcing a number of sites to remove manuals of even long-
discontinued products, for example, Nikon F2's, discontinued for
a quarter of a century.

Don't be so sure that somne corporate legal department is out there
just waiting to justify its budget by going after some easy targets.
Like you.

I have to say I'm disappointed. I may well still try to make some of these
available. I think it's important, especially these days, when customer
service, and service in general are disappearing.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
m...
"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...
Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't
copyright service info,

Wanna bet? I have in the realm of 200 service manuals here. I just
pulled 10 at random out of the drawers, every single one of them
has a copyright notice on it.

and even if they did, they don't really care about
this.

Again, wanna bet? A number of "public service" sites that have both
user and service manuals have been hammered by the manufacturers and
forced to remove scans, PDF's even retypes of copyrighted manuals
from the site. The most recent example I am aware of is Nikon going
around and forcing a number of sites to remove manuals of even long-
discontinued products, for example, Nikon F2's, discontinued for
a quarter of a century.

Don't be so sure that somne corporate legal department is out there
just waiting to justify its budget by going after some easy targets.
Like you.

Dick
P2P sharing of service manual PDF's

Wanna bet? I have in the realm of 200 service manuals here

Have a manul for a TTS-25B telephone line test set? Old but I want to make
mine go. I need to determine the battery complement?

Bob AZ

I am willing to test the water for a limited number of uploads of Pioneer,
Onkyo, and Harman manuals. No Sony at this time.

It is my hope others will join in.

Post model numbers here for requests. I will gauge the response and try to
accommodate.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"RWatson767" wrote in message
...
Dick
P2P sharing of service manual PDF's

Wanna bet? I have in the realm of 200 service manuals here

Have a manul for a TTS-25B telephone line test set? Old but I want to
make
mine go. I need to determine the battery complement?

Bob AZ

To interject;

While I agree that the manufacturers probably won't go after this with the
tenacity of the RIAA and MPAA, they are likely to be there with viruses.

Now I download stuff, mostly older stuff, but I have noticed that you can
download movies while they are still playing in theaters. You can download CDs
that are not yet released. This has got to be costing them.

From time to time we have actually mentioned to the customer that we were
downloading the service manual, and the reaction varies. Right now this is from
their website. All nice and legal.

On a P2P network, the person(s) with the file you want have to be online.
Secondly, if this is to run during the day, someone at the shop has to set it
to share the directory, or burn a CD and take the files home. You'll know what
files you need during the day, and I think many shops would be reluctant to
share for legal reasons. If we do it at home it's a bit more trouble, and if
the sharer is only online with the sharee at night, then we need to make lists
and take our job home with us.(who doesn't anyway ?)

Actually if the manufacturers were forced by law to be fair, this info would be
readily available. This is ridiculous, they can sell something for thousands of
dollars and make it unrepairable in three years.

Put it this way, I'll participate, but only because I think it's right. No I
didn't download Passion Of Christ, or Matrix Reloaded, didn't want them either.


Now I have a question, but I'll start another post about it, but real quick; I
use WinMX at present and there is a way to set it to run on different networks,
but I would need specifics. I'll post the question after I start WinMX and
explore the options. It would be so much better not to have to install yet
another program.

Thanx

JURB

mv /dev/null:
To interject;

While I agree that the manufacturers probably won't go after this with the
tenacity of the RIAA and MPAA, they are likely to be there with viruses.

Viruses in .pdf files??? Looks like something stupid, as in a Brazilian site
that said:

"You know that most MP3 files contain viruses (virii?). You have been warned"

Now I download stuff, mostly older stuff, but I have noticed that you can
download movies while they are still playing in theaters. You can download CDs
that are not yet released. This has got to be costing them.

I mainly download MP3 files and video files (not movies - and not porn either).

Now I have a question, but I'll start another post about it, but real quick; I
use WinMX at present and there is a way to set it to run on different networks,
but I would need specifics. I'll post the question after I start WinMX and
explore the options. It would be so much better not to have to install yet
another program.

Google for "OpenNap".
I would suggest installing Kazaa Lite.

--
Chaos Master® | "I'm going under,
Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you
ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever,
ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through"
---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under"

On Sat, 22 May 2004 14:20:02 -0300, Chaos Master
wrote:

mv /dev/null:
To interject;

While I agree that the manufacturers probably won't go after this with the
tenacity of the RIAA and MPAA, they are likely to be there with viruses.

Viruses in .pdf files??? Looks like something stupid, as in a Brazilian site
that said:

There was a vulnerability in older versions of Acrobat that
conceivably could be used to execute hostile code (aka virus) embedded
in a pdf file. I'm not aware of this tactic being used in the wild,
just the sucessful proof of concept.

"You know that most MP3 files contain viruses (virii?). You have been warned"

Windows Media Player had (and probably still has) issues with ignoring
the file type and executing scripts embeded into files. For example,
it might have a wmv extension, but media player would recognize vb
scripts and call the appropriate program to run them. Many other MS
products are guilty of trying to outsmart the user.

There are other ways to 'disguise' an executeable file to look like an
mp3. Many non-computer types will happily click on a file called
avavrilla_soundtrack.mp3.exe and get a virus. So, yes, there have been
ways to plant malicious code in seemingly inoccent files.

Just have to be careful.

-Chris
(Can you tell what my profession is?)

) caused an illegal operation in module
:

Windows Media Player had (and probably still has) issues with ignoring
the file type and executing scripts embeded into files. For example,
it might have a wmv extension, but media player would recognize vb
scripts and call the appropriate program to run them. Many other MS
products are guilty of trying to outsmart the user.

There are other ways to 'disguise' an executeable file to look like an
mp3. Many non-computer types will happily click on a file called
avavrilla_soundtrack.mp3.exe and get a virus. So, yes, there have been
ways to plant malicious code in seemingly inoccent files.

This is what happens, but at least, my P2P program (Kazaa Lite K++) comes with a
"protection" against this. It is a filter that is set to ignore
results like ".mp3.exe", ".wma.exe", ".jpg.exe"...

[]s
--
© Chaos Master | "These wounds won't seem to heal
posting from BR! | This pain is just too real
ask for ICQ/MSN or| There's just too much that time can't erase"
e-mail address | -- Evanescence, "My Immortal"