I replaced my computer's 90-watt Newton power supply with a 180-watt Fortron
power supply today. I have not added any other new components, so the total
power consumed should not have changed. The new power supply unit (PSU) fits
perfectly in every way except one: The air flow direction is reversed. The old
fan's intake was on the back of the computer case. The fan exhaust was into the
computer, across the heat sink and CPU, and out the back of the case. The old
way arguably caused the case to be under a slight pressure.

The new fan arguably puts the case under a slight vacuum.

The heat sink prongs are hot but not so hot I can't safely (no burns) leave a
finger on it.

Should I just observe for awhile, playing it by ear?

Or should I figure out a way to reverse the fan flow direction in the new power
supply?

All experience is welcome. I googled and am not finding anything definitive.

Aside: After a lot of research on physical fit and electrical fit, brand names,
and cost, I bought the new power supply from newegg.com. With shipping,
altogether it cost $26. Ordered Tuesday night late, arrived Friday afternoon.

Well, I am tiring to visualize the flow. But am having a hard time doing
it. But let me give you one rule of thumb. The cooler a CPU can run, the
more efficient it will work. The same with the whole computer. The CPU
should have a fan on it. This will keep the CPU cooled down. Now, it kinda
sounds like the fan from the PSU also was the fan that cooled the CPU (on
the old unit). Now the fan is no longer cooling the CPU. So, go to Radio
Shack, or your local computer store, and get a CPU fan. It fits on the heat
sink, and 2-4 screws will screw into, between the heat sink vents. If you
are getting two fans running opposite of each other, (I.E.back forcing out,
and the front fan forcing out, creating a void inside the case), you will
need to reverse one of the two fans. You need to create a nice airflow
through the case (I.E. Front to rear, or Rear to Front.) If you only have
one fan, may I suggest another, to create a nice airflow...

Hope this helps.
Rick

"Caroline" wrote in message
k.net...
I replaced my computer's 90-watt Newton power supply with a 180-watt
Fortron
power supply today. I have not added any other new components, so the
total
power consumed should not have changed. The new power supply unit (PSU)
fits
perfectly in every way except one: The air flow direction is reversed. The
old
fan's intake was on the back of the computer case. The fan exhaust was
into the
computer, across the heat sink and CPU, and out the back of the case. The
old
way arguably caused the case to be under a slight pressure.

The new fan arguably puts the case under a slight vacuum.

The heat sink prongs are hot but not so hot I can't safely (no burns)
leave a
finger on it.

Should I just observe for awhile, playing it by ear?

Or should I figure out a way to reverse the fan flow direction in the new
power
supply?

All experience is welcome. I googled and am not finding anything
definitive.

Aside: After a lot of research on physical fit and electrical fit, brand
names,
and cost, I bought the new power supply from newegg.com. With shipping,
altogether it cost $26. Ordered Tuesday night late, arrived Friday
afternoon.

Caroline wrote:

Or should I figure out a way to reverse the fan flow direction in the new power
supply?
To reverse the airstream, you have to turn the fans, by opening the psu,
and turning it around. The standard now is front intake with or without
fans, and only psu exhaust fan, or another additional exhaust fan.

I'm having 2 papst 80mm fans in front, running on 6 v, and the psu
sucking out. That is however to little...

Thanks, Ricky and Vidar.

Per your suggestions to increase the air flow, right now I am investigating a
fan for the heat sink.

I experimented a little more yesterday with the old power supply. To the touch,
it didn't seem as though the old fan cooled the heat sink or CPU any better than
the new one. I guess it's entirely possible the new fan's air circulation flow
over the CPU and heat sink is greater than the old one's, since the new power
supply is double the rating of the old one (180 Watts vs. 90 Watts). So maybe I
shouldn't worry about the new air flow direction.

But I am thinking I might get a little better performance overall if I throw in
a heat sink fan, like you said, Ricky. Seems like a fair gamble for under $20.

Performance seems better. For example, it seems I can dump more tasks on the
computer at the same time. (This sometimes froze things up.) I am still getting
some spontaneous Internet disconnects but am now suspecting the phone lines and
weather variations in my area.

Plus, the new power supply is quieter in steady state operation.

"Ricky Eck" wrote
Well, I am tiring to visualize the flow. But am having a hard time doing
it. But let me give you one rule of thumb. The cooler a CPU can run, the
more efficient it will work. The same with the whole computer. The CPU
should have a fan on it. This will keep the CPU cooled down. Now, it kinda
sounds like the fan from the PSU also was the fan that cooled the CPU (on
the old unit). Now the fan is no longer cooling the CPU. So, go to Radio
Shack, or your local computer store, and get a CPU fan. It fits on the heat
sink, and 2-4 screws will screw into, between the heat sink vents. If you
are getting two fans running opposite of each other, (I.E.back forcing out,
and the front fan forcing out, creating a void inside the case), you will
need to reverse one of the two fans. You need to create a nice airflow
through the case (I.E. Front to rear, or Rear to Front.) If you only have
one fan, may I suggest another, to create a nice airflow...

Hope this helps.
Rick

Performance seems better. For example, it seems I can dump more tasks on
the
computer at the same time. (This sometimes froze things up.) I am still
getting
some spontaneous Internet disconnects but am now suspecting the phone
lines and
weather variations in my area.

Plus, the new power supply is quieter in steady state operation.

Well, that "Could" increase performance. I would say that putting a power
supply two times the amount then you had was the true increase of
performance. However, the freezing up problem can be caused by MANY things.
From slow processor, lack of Memory, slow video, ect. Sure, the processor
heating up, could cause it to run slow. But to be honest with you, many of
the lock ups are caused by software problems. Defragging the computer
greatly reduces "Lock-Up's" Eliminating Temp Files will frees up space, and
reducing the amount of programs running in the background (i.e. Real Player,
Messenger programs, ect), will free up resources. Eliminate any programs
from the start menu that you don't use. Not to mention any programs that
isn't in the start menu, that still start upon boot. Just because it tells
you to start at boot, don't mean you have to. It just will take longer to
start that program, but will save resources for programs that you do use
more often. Refrain from buying programs like "FreeMem" or "MemMaker".
They fake Memory, and take up more resources in the processor, not to
mention reduce hard drive space. If you want to increase Memory, then do it
the old fashion way, buy a bigger memory chip(s)

Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better it will run.
Also, if you smoke, or have an unusually dust place, make sure you blow your
computer out with some caned air, or a compressor, regularly. Dust and
smoke can be a number one enemy on a computer, causing it to run hot, and
reducing the life of it greatly. I had one computer that had one fan in it,
and it was in the Power supply. Not to mention this was a large tower. So
I placed two more fans inside it. The power supply was blowing from the
inside out. So I put one fan in the front blowing from the outside in. And
a fan above the power supply blowing from the inside out. The effect, the
flow went from the front of the case, out the rear. I also had the heat
sink fan, blowing down on the Processor, causing the heat to blow off the
processor down to the Main board, reflecting off the Main board, and up into
the air flow, going to the back of the case.

Hope that helps,
Rick

I am still getting
some spontaneous Internet disconnects but am now suspecting the phone
lines and
weather variations in my area.


I forgot to answer this. I wouldn't suspect anything to so with the
computer it's self. See the way how a modem works (I am going to use basic
language here), is a complex language that can be described as different
tones of noise. But there is a method to it's madness. What sounds like
static and noise to us, is really a complex language between the two modems.
If there is any type of interruption between this communication, it could
cause your internet connection to be lost. One big thing, especially on the
older modems, is call waiting. That "Beep" will interrupt the communication
between the two modems. The newer modems comes with a program (sometimes
built into the modem it's self), that can tell the "Beep" of call waiting.
However, the older ones can not tell the difference, therefore gets
confused, and disconnects. Other problems, can be cause by poor wiring in
the phone lines. If you hear static on your line when you talk to someone,
the modem will also. This will cause the modem to get confused, and hang
up. Make sure you have "Error Correction" enabled on the modem. This will,
sometimes, correct the problem.

There is also two different modems on the market. There is the "SoftModem"
a.k.a. "WinModem" That is software drive. This is a modem that you install
all it's software on the Hard Drive. These can be slow, and unreliable.
Mainly because it has to take time to read the programming off the hard
drive. Basically, by the time the modem reads the info off the Hard Drive,
it gives up and hangs up (Especially if you have a slow Hard Drive.) Then
there is a Hard Modem. They are the most reliable. These modems have the
software programmed in on the chip of the Modem it's self. Therefore
reducing the amount of time it takes to read the programming. The only
downfall of these, is software upgrades.

Ever since I used a Hard Modem, I never went back to a WinModem. Hard
modems are more expensive then a WinModem. But well worth it. However,
before you start to replace all this hardware, check in with the phone lines
and company, to see if you have any static or old wiring in your home. Or
even it the "Trunk" to your home is old. 99.9% of connection problems are
bad/old wiring in homes, and just need to be replace. One Apartment I had,
when I used Dial-up, would be filled with static when it rained. The water
would get into the phone lines, and would make the phone terrible for about
3 days.

Hope this helps,
Rick

There is also two different modems on the market. There is the "SoftModem"
a.k.a. "WinModem" That is software drive. This is a modem that you install
all it's software on the Hard Drive. These can be slow, and unreliable.

Not necessarily. The reliability of soft modems have greatly improved because
of the amount of power that most computers have today.

The resources that softmodems would use when they are operating would be
negligible if it's used in a machine with a clock in excess of 2 GHz with over
512 MB of RAM. In this case, the only limiting factor would be the quality of
the software used to control the modem.
Unfortunately, this is where most softmodems will fall short. Most cheap
brands of softmodems have sloppily written drivers which will affect how well
the modem can communicate and maintain a connection.

Then
there is a Hard Modem. They are the most reliable. These modems have the
software programmed in on the chip of the Modem it's self.

In some cases, yes. In other cases, no.

Again, it depends on the quality of the controlling software that is written.
In the case of a hardware modem, where all modem control processing is handled
by the modem and not by the host CPU, the software instructions in the modem's
ROM chip or firmware can still be sloppily written. Another factor would be
the quality of the chipset.

I forgot to answer this. I wouldn't suspect anything to so with the
computer it's self. See the way how a modem works (I am going to use basic
language here), is a complex language that can be described as different
tones of noise.

What a modem essentially does is MOdulate the information to be sent into a
simple analogue carrier that can be transmitted through the phone lines. The
computer that receives this signal DEModulates it from an analogue carrier back
into usable computer information. It modulates the information to be sent into
a simpler form and then demodulates information it receives back into something
that can be processed, hence the name (MOdulator DEModulator or MODEM for
short).

One big thing, especially on the
older modems, is call waiting. That "Beep" will interrupt the communication
between the two modems. The newer modems comes with a program (sometimes
built into the modem it's self),

If you have call waiting, you can disable it by dialing a turn-off code,
usually *70, at the dial tone prior to dialing out. This is what the modem is
commanded to do if you configure your ISP software to disable call waiting.
Any modem can do this, new or old, as any modem can be told to dial *70 or
whatever the turn-off code is for your area.

In my area, if the turn-off code is successfully received by the switcher at
the phone company, the dial tone will pulse for a couple of seconds to indicate
that call waiting is disabled.

If you hear static on your line when you talk to someone,
the modem will also. This will cause the modem to get confused, and hang
up.

It's not "confusion," per se. Rather, it's noise that interferes with the
carrier. Sometimes, the modem communication can be recovered. Sometimes, it
can't and you have to reconnect.

Make sure you have "Error Correction" enabled on the modem. This will,
sometimes, correct the problem.

Error correction is more meant to correct errors that can occur as the
information is transmitted through the interim. - Reinhart

Man, I can defiantly tell that you are "New" school. If you noticed at the
beginning of the post I said "I am going to basic language here" meaning
that I was not going to try to confuse the original poster. When I said the
modem gets confused, id didn't want to go into all this description, that
the poster may not understand. You have to remember, that may of the
computer users over the age of 40, and some below, don't understand the
terminology of computers, they just want to fix a problem.

Now, with the *70, many phone companies are starting to charge to use the
*70. You pay a monthly fee to have the option to use the *70 function.
However, the newer modems have a call waiting Function that will alert you
when a call comes in. But no matter if you are "Old" school, or "New"
school, everyone can agree that you modem will work only as good as you
phone connection. I personally have never seen a 56K reach 56K Maybe
someone out there has, but not me.

Rick


"LASERandDVDfan" wrote in message
...
There is also two different modems on the market. There is the
"SoftModem"
a.k.a. "WinModem" That is software drive. This is a modem that you
install
all it's software on the Hard Drive. These can be slow, and unreliable.

Not necessarily. The reliability of soft modems have greatly improved
because
of the amount of power that most computers have today.

The resources that softmodems would use when they are operating would be
negligible if it's used in a machine with a clock in excess of 2 GHz with
over
512 MB of RAM. In this case, the only limiting factor would be the
quality of
the software used to control the modem.
Unfortunately, this is where most softmodems will fall short. Most cheap
brands of softmodems have sloppily written drivers which will affect how
well
the modem can communicate and maintain a connection.

Then
there is a Hard Modem. They are the most reliable. These modems have
the
software programmed in on the chip of the Modem it's self.

In some cases, yes. In other cases, no.

Again, it depends on the quality of the controlling software that is
written.
In the case of a hardware modem, where all modem control processing is
handled
by the modem and not by the host CPU, the software instructions in the
modem's
ROM chip or firmware can still be sloppily written. Another factor would
be
the quality of the chipset.

I forgot to answer this. I wouldn't suspect anything to so with the
computer it's self. See the way how a modem works (I am going to use
basic
language here), is a complex language that can be described as different
tones of noise.

What a modem essentially does is MOdulate the information to be sent into
a
simple analogue carrier that can be transmitted through the phone lines.
The
computer that receives this signal DEModulates it from an analogue carrier
back
into usable computer information. It modulates the information to be sent
into
a simpler form and then demodulates information it receives back into
something
that can be processed, hence the name (MOdulator DEModulator or MODEM for
short).

One big thing, especially on the
older modems, is call waiting. That "Beep" will interrupt the
communication
between the two modems. The newer modems comes with a program (sometimes
built into the modem it's self),

If you have call waiting, you can disable it by dialing a turn-off code,
usually *70, at the dial tone prior to dialing out. This is what the
modem is
commanded to do if you configure your ISP software to disable call
waiting.
Any modem can do this, new or old, as any modem can be told to dial *70 or
whatever the turn-off code is for your area.

In my area, if the turn-off code is successfully received by the switcher
at
the phone company, the dial tone will pulse for a couple of seconds to
indicate
that call waiting is disabled.

If you hear static on your line when you talk to someone,
the modem will also. This will cause the modem to get confused, and hang
up.

It's not "confusion," per se. Rather, it's noise that interferes with the
carrier. Sometimes, the modem communication can be recovered. Sometimes,
it
can't and you have to reconnect.

Make sure you have "Error Correction" enabled on the modem. This will,
sometimes, correct the problem.

Error correction is more meant to correct errors that can occur as the
information is transmitted through the interim. - Reinhart

"Ricky Eck" wrote
C wrote
Performance seems better. For example, it seems I can dump more tasks on
the
computer at the same time. (This sometimes froze things up.) I am still
getting
some spontaneous Internet disconnects but am now suspecting the phone
lines and
weather variations in my area.
snip

Well, that "Could" increase performance. I would say that putting a power
supply two times the amount then you had was the true increase of
performance. However, the freezing up problem can be caused by MANY things.

Yup.

snip
Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better it will run.

To use basic language: I assure you a definite upper limit to the CPU's speed
exists, and once this limit is reached, cooling further will have no effect.

Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better it will
run.

To use basic language: I assure you a definite upper limit to the CPU's
speed
exists, and once this limit is reached, cooling further will have no
effect.


Oh, Most defiantly. I mean a system can only go as far as it's limits
(kinda like that old saying "It's always in the last place you look..~

"Ricky Eck" wrote
C wrote
I am still getting
some spontaneous Internet disconnects but am now suspecting the phone
lines and
weather variations in my area.


I forgot to answer this. I wouldn't suspect anything to so with the
computer it's self. See the way how a modem works (I am going to use basic
language here), is a complex language that can be described as different
tones of noise. But there is a method to it's madness.

It's not madness. It's not complex. It is engineering, in which I have three
bachelor's and higher degrees. ;-)

What sounds like
static and noise to us, is really a complex language between the two modems.
If there is any type of interruption between this communication, it could
cause your internet connection to be lost.

Yup.

snip obvious

This Gateway 900c desktop as purchased in early September, 2001 has an
integrated modem. For a month I had terrible problems trying to get it to
connect to the internet. I spent dozens of hours working with Gateway and
America Online (my ISP then) to figure out why. They kept blaming each other for
the problem, of course. Finally a Gateway tech and I narrowed it down to the
strong possibility that the integrated modem was too sensitive to my older
home's phone line noise. Gateway said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our
superior modem." I said, "Not so fast. Your modem is not superior; my old
computer's external modem works fine and is the superior one. I'm sending your
computer back for a full refund, per the warranty." The tech turned me over to a
manager who agreed to pay for an external modem. I kept the computer.

I have used the external modem ever since.

I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several months ago.
It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I wasn't getting
disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects per day
vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I have ideas where to go with this. And as I
mentioned in the other thread here on power supplies, my computer is far from
crippled.

Man, I can defiantly tell that you are "New" school. If you noticed at the
beginning of the post I said "I am going to basic language here" meaning
that I was not going to try to confuse the original poster.

I know exactly what you intended, but the simplified explanation was simply
wrong, if not outright confusing.

All a modem does is take computer data and convert it into a simpler form so it
can be sent through the phone lines to the modem at the other end. It also
takes a signal from the modem at the other end and converts it back into
computer info.

That's what modems do in a nutshell. There is no simpler explanation than
that.

When I said the
modem gets confused, id didn't want to go into all this description, that
the poster may not understand.

A modem doesn't get confused. It simply gets interrupted, which is what
outside noises do.

It's like two people talking, but you drop a soundproof wall between them for a
couple of seconds.

Now, with the *70, many phone companies are starting to charge to use the
*70. You pay a monthly fee to have the option to use the *70 function.

Actually, you pay a monthly fee for the call waiting service itself. Of
course, this is for the telephone service with MCI Neighborhood. Your service
and their charges may vary.

However, the newer modems have a call waiting Function that will alert you
when a call comes in.

Only on modems compliant with v.92 and only on ISPs that support v.92. Not
very many ISPs in the world, however, completely support v.92. This includes
the big names like AOL, NetZero, Earthlink, and PeoplePC.

The reason is that the upgrade from v.90 to v.92 is very expensive with very
little gain, plus the rise of broadband acceptance has had an impact. There's
simply no incentive for many ISPs to widely support v.92 and the benefits that
it has.

But no matter if you are "Old" school, or "New"
school, everyone can agree that you modem will work only as good as you
phone connection.

That's always too true.

I personally have never seen a 56K reach 56K Maybe
someone out there has, but not me.

And you never will, at least in the U.S.A. FCC mandates restrict data
throughput rates on telephone lines to a maximum of 53k, and only if your phone
line is the cleanest that is possible with minimal or absolutely no D/A
conversion in the phone lines. - Reinhart

Gateway said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our
superior modem." I said, "Not so fast. Your modem is not superior

The only thing that would make the Gateway integrated modem superior is that
it's connected directly to the southgate on the motherboard through a local bus
as opposed to working through a PCI bus, USB port, or a parallel port.

Other than that, I'm willing to bet it's a softmodem with a cruddy chipset,
like a PCTel or a Motorola or an Intel, and running with a sloppy set of
drivers.

The tech turned me over to a
manager who agreed to pay for an external modem. I kept the computer.

I have used the external modem ever since.

Good choice. All external modems are going to be hardware-based, at least for
the parallel port variety.


I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several months
ago.
It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I wasn't getting
disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

Call the phone company and have them correct the problem. They may perform a
test and say that it's okay, but tell them that this is for a computer modem
and while the line may be suitable for regular conversation, it is apparently
too noisy and, therefore, unacceptable for use with a modem.

You're paying for their services, so make them deliver you that service in the
best way possible.

What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects per
day
vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

If the problem is with the phone line, switching to an internal modem won't
help. All it will do is take one less object off your desk and free up one
plug outlet.

If you are using a parallel port connection, make sure that your BIOS is set to
allow two-way parallel port communication and that your cable is also suitable
for that purpose.

If you are using a USB modem, make sure that you have the most up to date
drivers for your USB controller and that it supports the USB mode that the
modem requires. If your modem requires USB 2.0, then your USB port and cabling
must support USB 2.0 and your BIOS must be set to allow this mode of
communication, if available.

Make sure that your modem does not have problems with using system resources,
such as I/O addresses and interrupt requests. A modem will be assigned a COM
port which means that resources associated with that COM port should be used by
the modem only. Your modem is most likely plug-n-play so it will be assigned
the necessary resources by your operating system automatically, but resource
conflicts can still occur.

Make sure your ISP software is configured to use your modem properly.

Other things you could try is to use a different telephone cord that is the
shortest possible for your needs. Also, be sure that the connection is as
direct to the phone line as possible. You can get away with running it through
one surge suppressor, though. Don't use RF-based plug-in phone jack
extensions, particularly those that are not clearly labeled as intended for use
with data communications. - Reinhart

Hi!

And you never will, at least in the U.S.A. FCC mandates restrict data
throughput rates on telephone lines to a maximum of 53k, and only if your
phone
line is the cleanest that is possible with minimal or absolutely no D/A
conversion in the phone lines. - Reinhart

I'm not so sure that communication faster than 53k is impossible to acheive.
With a nearby local ISP I managed to get 54k or so *once*. The connection
was reliable while it lasted, but I did eventually get disconnected. I
remember having read the same thing about the 53k limit and wondering about
it then...

William

"LASERandDVDfan" wrote
C wrote
snip
I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several months
ago.
It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I wasn't getting
disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

Call the phone company and have them correct the problem. They may perform a
test and say that it's okay, but tell them that this is for a computer modem
and while the line may be suitable for regular conversation, it is apparently
too noisy and, therefore, unacceptable for use with a modem.

You're paying for their services, so make them deliver you that service in the
best way possible.

Hmm. I am not optimistic they can do anything or should do anything unless I pay
them bucks$$. ;-)

But I'll consider ringing them.

What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects per
day
vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

If the problem is with the phone line, switching to an internal modem won't
help.

Sorry. I meant this would be an experiement that would assist my
troubleshooting. If for some reason the internal modem had no more nor no less
disconnects than the external modem, then I might be able to rule out phone line
problems. Or at least this easy experiment might give me a bit more insight into
the problem. :-)

As I've said before, I think it's unrealistic to nail down a diagnosis on
something as vague as this using an online forum where people can't actually
play with my very own computer. I am trying to keep my threads very focused.
E.g. see the subject lines of the two threads here. If my efforts seem way off,
I'm sure someone will tell me. Also, obviously the learning curve at my end is
steep, due to my other experience in technology.

I am set for now. Thanks again.

I'm not so sure that communication faster than 53k is impossible to acheive.

I didn't say that it was impossible and it certainly is possible to connect
above 53k, but it's supposedly illegal in the U.S.A. to go above it and
maintain it for prolonged periods due to FCC regulations. Therefore, being
able to see such a connection stateside on a very clean connection is unlikely
not because it's technically unfeasible, but because it's restricted by law in
the United States.

Your story is the first I've heard where the 53k limit was exceeded, albeit by
an insignificant sum.

However, in regards to this regulation, I would think that the FCC has better
things to do with their time than acting like a bunch of @$$es by going after
people who are lucky enough to enjoy a faster than 53k connection on their
telephone modems. - Reinhart

"LASERandDVDfan" bravely wrote to "All" (15 May 04 23:37:46)
--- on the heady topic of " PSU Fan Direction"

LA From: (LASERandDVDfan)

LA What a modem essentially does is MOdulate the information to be sent
LA into a simple analogue carrier that can be transmitted through the
LA phone lines. The computer that receives this signal DEModulates it
LA from an analogue carrier back into usable computer information. It
LA modulates the information to be sent into a simpler form and then
LA demodulates information it receives back into something that can be
LA processed, hence the name (MOdulator DEModulator or MODEM for short).

Modems do a lot more than make sqweeks and squawks into the phone
line. They compress the data and send it as packets with error
correction. Then the receiving end receives them and decompresses the
data. All the while both ends are monitoring line quality and
negotiating the next transmission. Where a softmodem falls short is in
the lack of its own cpu and a software driver must hog the main cpu to
emulate the modem's cpu. In a very powerful pc this isn't usually too
bad but in general mostly all other running programs suffer.

The easiest analogy of this is an audio soundcard where the
instruments use emulated wavetable synthesis to drive the D/A
channels. Usually these drivers will emulate some synthesizer, like a
Yamaha etc. This works pretty well most of the time but when the
system starts running out of resources, the synthesizer starts to lose
instruments, go out of tune, or do other weird sounding things.

No software can beat a hardware system. Especially not a winmodem.

Asimov
******

.... A fail-safe circuit will destroy others.

Sorry. I meant this would be an experiement that would assist my
troubleshooting. If for some reason the internal modem had no more nor no
less
disconnects than the external modem, then I might be able to rule out phone
line
problems.

That sounds reasonable.

As I've said before, I think it's unrealistic to nail down a diagnosis on
something as vague as this using an online forum where people can't actually
play with my very own computer. I am trying to keep my threads very focused.
E.g. see the subject lines of the two threads here. If my efforts seem way
off,
I'm sure someone will tell me. Also, obviously the learning curve at my end
is
steep, due to my other experience in technology.

True. All we can offer are essentially educated guesses until one of us can
actually check out your computer to figure it out.

I am set for now. Thanks again.

You're welcome. Good luck! - Reinhart

They compress the data and send it as packets with error
correction. Then the receiving end receives them and decompresses the
data. All the while both ends are monitoring line quality and
negotiating the next transmission.

Pretty much what I described, but in more elaborate detail.

Compression would be a form of simplification to transmit while error
correction would help to keep anomolies in the data strem in check. Sending
them in packets would help to make the transmission more robust as opposed to
sending it in a linear fashion.

In other words, it simplifies the data for transmission and has redundant
corrections and a packet strategy to help keep the data flowing reliably.

But, again, the transmission has to be modulated in a carrier to allow it be
sent through the phone lines, which were meant for analogue transmission
although several A/D-D/A conversion steps can take place in the interim between
two telephone devices (which is one of the many causes of bottlenecking in
dial-up modem connection speeds).

Where a softmodem falls short is in
the lack of its own cpu and a software driver must hog the main cpu to
emulate the modem's cpu.

Of course.

In a very powerful pc this isn't usually too
bad but in general mostly all other running programs suffer.

The biggest problem with a softmodem, if you're running it on a very powerful
computer with plenty of overhead like extra RAM, is that the emulator program
may be sloppily written. This has been the case with a whole bunch of
"bargain" softmodems that I've seen.

No software can beat a hardware system. Especially not a winmodem.

No argument here. This understanding was the primary reason why I replaced my
Best Data Mach2 with a U.S. Robotics PerformancePro a few months ago when I was
able to.

Although the overhead gains were mainly negligible since I'm running a 2.08 GHz
Athlon XP with 1 gig of RAM onboard, I don't get blue screen warnings anymore
when I surf the net. The drivers for my old Best Data were probably badly
written.

And as for hardware modems, I'd recommend only 3Com/U.S. Robotics, which
generally use Texas Instruments solutions, or modems with an Agere (formerly
known as Lucent) solution. - Reinhart

"Caroline" bravely wrote to "All" (16 May 04 01:36:50)
--- on the heady topic of " PSU Fan Direction"

Ca From: "Caroline"

Ca "Ricky Eck" wrote
Ca C wrote
I am still getting
some spontaneous Internet disconnects but am now suspecting the phone
lines and
weather variations in my area.


I forgot to answer this. I wouldn't suspect anything to so with the
computer it's self. See the way how a modem works (I am going to use basic
language here), is a complex language that can be described as different
tones of noise. But there is a method to it's madness.

Ca It's not madness. It's not complex. It is engineering, in which I have
Ca three bachelor's and higher degrees. ;-)

What sounds like
static and noise to us, is really a complex language between the two modems.
If there is any type of interruption between this communication, it could
cause your internet connection to be lost.

Ca Yup.

Ca snip obvious

Ca This Gateway 900c desktop as purchased in early September, 2001 has an
Ca integrated modem. For a month I had terrible problems trying to get it
Ca to connect to the internet. I spent dozens of hours working with
Ca Gateway and America Online (my ISP then) to figure out why. They kept
Ca blaming each other for the problem, of course. Finally a Gateway tech
Ca and I narrowed it down to the strong possibility that the integrated
Ca modem was too sensitive to my older home's phone line noise. Gateway
Ca said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our superior modem." I
Ca said, "Not so fast. Your modem is not superior; my old computer's
Ca external modem works fine and is the superior one. I'm sending your
Ca computer back for a full refund, per the warranty." The tech turned me
Ca over to a manager who agreed to pay for an external modem. I kept the
Ca computer.
Ca I have used the external modem ever since.

Ca I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several
Ca months ago. It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I
Ca wasn't getting disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

Ca What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects
Ca per day vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

Ca Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I have ideas where to go with
Ca this. And as I mentioned in the other thread here on power supplies, my
Ca computer is far from crippled.

Some modems have trouble with being too sensitive. I've heard of a
trick of using a variable L-pot to attenuate the phone line signal the
modem receives. I've never had to use this tip so I can't say.

However a common cause of noise in a phone line is dirty RJ phone
connections. Replace those that cleaning doesn't seem to help.
There can be a lot of connectors on a phone line and each is a
potential source of noise.

Asimov
******

.... If plugging it in doesn't help, turn it on.

"LASERandDVDfan" bravely wrote to "All" (16 May 04 02:17:14)
--- on the heady topic of " PSU Fan Direction"

LA From: (LASERandDVDfan)

LA Call the phone company and have them correct the problem. They may
LA perform a test and say that it's okay, but tell them that this is for a
LA computer modem and while the line may be suitable for regular
LA conversation, it is apparently too noisy and, therefore, unacceptable
LA for use with a modem.
LA You're paying for their services, so make them deliver you that
LA service in the best way possible.

Oh, no don't tell them it is for a modem or they may charge you more.
The thing to tell them is that you hear noise and echos on the phone
line. When the tech person hears the word "echo" he will tend do an in
depth test for equalization and noise with the station rather than
simply picking up the receiver and listening to the line.

Asimov
******

.... I lurk quietly and carry a big OFF/ON switch.

Large power supply does not increase computer performance.
That is classic urban myth. Either computer gets sufficient
power to execute the instruction at same speed - or computer
crashes. The PSU is not a motor. A bigger PSU does not make
the computer work faster. Either the computer executes at the
speed of that master crystal oscillator - or it crashes -
stops working.

Same applies to CPU heat. Again, either CPU runs as crystal
oscillator speed or it crashes. Cooling does not make a CPU
run faster.

Caroline wrote:
"Ricky Eck" wrote
Well, that "Could" increase performance. I would say that
putting a power supply two times the amount then you had was
the true increase of performance. However, the freezing up
problem can be caused by MANY things.

Yup.

snip
Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better
it will run.

To use basic language: I assure you a definite upper limit to the
CPU's speed exists, and once this limit is reached, cooling
further will have no effect.

w_tom wrote:
Large power supply does not increase computer performance.
That is classic urban myth. Either computer gets sufficient
power to execute the instruction at same speed - or computer
crashes. The PSU is not a motor. A bigger PSU does not make
the computer work faster. Either the computer executes at the
speed of that master crystal oscillator - or it crashes -
stops working.

Same applies to CPU heat. Again, either CPU runs as crystal
oscillator speed or it crashes. Cooling does not make a CPU
run faster.

Freeze up = crash...I think you're arguing semantics here. If the old p.s.
was undersized for the computer--or if the output had deteriorated for some
reason--the new, more powerful supply could well be the source of improved
performance.

As far as air flow: IIRC, AT supply fans *exhausted* air from the supply;
while ATX fans 'suck.' I don't know if that's a hard & fast rule, but I
seem to recall the above as one of the changes when the ATX standard took
effect.

If you have the technical chops, you can easily reverse the airflow by
opening the p.s. and turning the fan around. If your CPU has no fan, by all
means get one. If you are 'really' concerned about airflow within the
enclosure, buy an auxiliary case fan--orienting it so that the airflow
supports that of the p.s. fan. Every case with which I'm familiar already
has a cutout with screw holes for one. Any computer store, electronics
supply store or even Radio Shack carries these.

jak

Caroline wrote:
"Ricky Eck" wrote
Well, that "Could" increase performance. I would say that
putting a power supply two times the amount then you had was
the true increase of performance. However, the freezing up
problem can be caused by MANY things.

Yup.

snip
Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better
it will run.

To use basic language: I assure you a definite upper limit to the
CPU's speed exists, and once this limit is reached, cooling
further will have no effect.

Large power supply does not increase computer performance.
That is classic urban myth.

True, a power supply that provides clean power will help make a system more
reliable, but it won't produce performance gains. - Reinhart

As far as air flow: IIRC, AT supply fans *exhausted* air from the supply;
while ATX fans 'suck.'

My ATX supply blows the air inside the case out, so it's an exhaust. -
Reinhart

The thing to tell them is that you hear noise and echos on the phone
line. When the tech person hears the word "echo" he will tend do an in
depth test for equalization and noise with the station rather than
simply picking up the receiver and listening to the line.

Good point. - Reinhart

On Sun, 16 May 2004 01:36:50 GMT, "Caroline"
put finger to keyboard and
composed:

This Gateway 900c desktop as purchased in early September, 2001 has an
integrated modem. For a month I had terrible problems trying to get it to
connect to the internet. I spent dozens of hours working with Gateway and
America Online (my ISP then) to figure out why. They kept blaming each other for
the problem, of course. Finally a Gateway tech and I narrowed it down to the
strong possibility that the integrated modem was too sensitive to my older
home's phone line noise. Gateway said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our
superior modem." I said, "Not so fast. Your modem is not superior; my old
computer's external modem works fine and is the superior one. I'm sending your
computer back for a full refund, per the warranty." The tech turned me over to a
manager who agreed to pay for an external modem. I kept the computer.

I have used the external modem ever since.

I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several months ago.
It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I wasn't getting
disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects per day
vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I have ideas where to go with this. And as I
mentioned in the other thread here on power supplies, my computer is far from
crippled.

Most modems can produce a last call diagnostic report. This includes
data such as Tx/Rx signal levels, Tx/Rx error rates, S/N ratio,
numbers of speedshifts and retrains, etc.

http://www.modemsite.com/56k/x2-inf.asp
http://www.modemsite.com/56k/x2-hyperterm.asp
http://www.modemsite.com/56k/usehyper.asp
http://www.modemsite.com/56k/diag.asp
http://www.modemsite.com/56k/trouble.asp

My own Rockwell chipped modem produces the data below. Notice these
highly abbreviated data for a good session ...

TX/RX I-Frame count : 17654/21091
TX/RX I-Frame error count : 29/14
TX Rate (Last/Init/Min/Max) : 28800/26400/26400/28800
RX Rate (Last/Init/Min/Max) : 46667/46667/45333/46667
Modulation/Protocol/Compression : V.90/LAPM/V.42bis
Retrains (Issued/Granted/Fast) : 0/0/5
Renegs (Issued/Granted) : 2/0
Retrans per frame/Frames rejected : 1/14
Error control timeouts in TX : 16
Error control NAKs received : 29
Termination Cause : Dte Hangup Command

.... a not so good session ...

TX/RX I-Frame count : 10268/34101
TX/RX I-Frame error count : 15/47
TX Rate (Last/Init/Min/Max) : 28800/26400/26400/28800
RX Rate (Last/Init/Min/Max) : 38667/42667/38667/42667
Modulation/Protocol/Compression : V.90/LAPM/V.42bis
Retrains (Issued/Granted/Fast) : 0/0/0
Renegs (Issued/Granted) : 3/0
Retrans per frame/Frames rejected : 1/47
Error control timeouts in TX : 7
Error control NAKs received : 15
Termination Cause : Dte Hangup Command

.... and a bad session (water in the cable) ...

TX/RX I-Frame count : 784/4482
TX/RX I-Frame error count : 23/211
TX Rate (Last/Init/Min/Max) : 26400/26400/26400/28800
RX Rate (Last/Init/Min/Max) : 38667/44000/33333/44000
Modulation/Protocol/Compression : V.90/LAPM/V.42bis
Retrains (Issued/Granted/Fast) : 0/1/2
Renegs (Issued/Granted) : 12/0
Retrans per frame/Frames rejected : 8/211
Error control timeouts in TX : 16
Error control NAKs received : 23
Termination Cause : Retrain Failed


Notice that the initial CONNECT speed is not a reliable indicator of
modem performance, as modems will speedshift as line conditions
change. Notice also that the modem can tell you the reason for
disconnect. For example, a "Termination Cause" of "Disconnect Frame
Received" indicates that your ISP kicked you off.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

On Sat, 15 May 2004 17:06:51 GMT, "Ricky Eck"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

There is also two different modems on the market.

Actually, there are three types, "soft", controllerless, and "hard"
(controller based). Softmodems have a DAA (telephone line interface),
controllerless modems have a DAA and DSP (digital signal processor),
and "hard" modems have a DAA, DSP, and controller.

Among other things, a modem's controller handles AT command parsing,
UART emulation, data compression and error correction. These functions
do not impact significantly on the host CPU. OTOH, the functions of a
DSP are highly CPU intensive, so a softmodem (which emulates the DSP
in software) may impact noticeably on CPU performance.

There is the "SoftModem" a.k.a. "WinModem".

Actually, to be pedantic, "Winmodem" is a USR trademark and refers to
their line of controllerless modems.

Examples of softmodem chipsets are PCtel HSP, Motorola SM56,
Smartlink, and Conexant HSF. Controllerless examples include Conexant
HCF, Intel HaM, Lucent Win Modem, and USR Winmodem.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

On 16 May 2004 01:47:48 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I personally have never seen a 56K reach 56K Maybe
someone out there has, but not me.

And you never will, at least in the U.S.A. FCC mandates restrict data
throughput rates on telephone lines to a maximum of 53k, and only if your phone
line is the cleanest that is possible with minimal or absolutely no D/A
conversion in the phone lines. - Reinhart

AFAIK, the FCC mandates restrictions on the maximum signal levels, not
the data rate. It's just that data rates in excess of 53333bps usually
require signal levels greater than those allowed. At least that's the
explanation that is often given at comp.dcom.modems.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

On 16 May 2004 02:17:14 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Gateway said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our
superior modem." I said, "Not so fast. Your modem is not superior

The only thing that would make the Gateway integrated modem superior is that
it's connected directly to the southgate on the motherboard through a local bus

.... which would make it an inferior AC97 softmodem.

as opposed to working through a PCI bus, USB port, or a parallel port.

Although "soft" USB and PCI modems do exist, they are most often
controllerless, which makes them better than softmodems. As for
"parallel" port modems, I've heard they exist, but I've never seen
one. Serial port modems are always "hard".

Other than that, I'm willing to bet it's a softmodem with a cruddy chipset,
like a PCTel or a Motorola or an Intel, and running with a sloppy set of
drivers.

The tech turned me over to a
manager who agreed to pay for an external modem. I kept the computer.

I have used the external modem ever since.

Good choice. All external modems are going to be hardware-based, at least for
the parallel port variety.

Don't you mean "serial", not "parallel"?

I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several months
ago.

What did this involve?

It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I wasn't getting
disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

Call the phone company and have them correct the problem. They may perform a
test and say that it's okay, but tell them that this is for a computer modem
and while the line may be suitable for regular conversation, it is apparently
too noisy and, therefore, unacceptable for use with a modem.

Tell them you are having trouble sending/receiving faxes. The telco is
not obliged to provide "computer" grade phone lines, only voice and
fax.

You're paying for their services, so make them deliver you that service in the
best way possible.

What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects per
day
vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

Query the modem's last call diagnostic report, as described elsewhere
in this thread.

Other things you could try is to use a different telephone cord that is the
shortest possible for your needs.

I wonder about this. Unless the phone cord is of extremely poor
quality, I can't see how adding even 10m to several km of cable is
going to affect a 4kHz connection ... assuming, of course, that you
keep the cable away from sources of electrical interference.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

On 16 May 2004 05:36:53 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
put finger to keyboard and composed:

No software can beat a hardware system. Especially not a winmodem.

No argument here. This understanding was the primary reason why I replaced my
Best Data Mach2 with a U.S. Robotics PerformancePro a few months ago when I was
able to.

Controllerless modems (eg USR and Lucent/Agere "winmodems") have
little impact on the host CPU. IMHO, their only significant down side
is that they require drivers which makes them OS specific. "Soft"
modems, though, are another story ...

Although the overhead gains were mainly negligible since I'm running a 2.08 GHz
Athlon XP with 1 gig of RAM onboard, I don't get blue screen warnings anymore
when I surf the net. The drivers for my old Best Data were probably badly
written.

And as for hardware modems, I'd recommend only 3Com/U.S. Robotics, which
generally use Texas Instruments solutions, or modems with an Agere (formerly
known as Lucent) solution. - Reinhart

I have always found ACF/ACF2 chipped Rockwell/Conexant "hard" modems
to be reliable perfomers.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

Hi!

As far as air flow: IIRC, AT supply fans *exhausted* air from the supply;
while ATX fans 'suck.' I don't know if that's a hard & fast rule, but I
seem to recall the above as one of the changes when the ATX standard took
effect.

Every "regular" sized ATX supply I've ever seen pushes air out the back with
a fan mounted in the back of the supply, just like AT units have done for
years. It is usually the oddball sized or really cheap models that seem to
do things differently. Some ATX PSUs even seem to have fans at both ends,
which strikes me as odd.

If you have the technical chops, you can easily reverse the airflow by
opening the p.s. and turning the fan around. If your CPU has no fan, by
all
means get one. If you are 'really' concerned about airflow within the
enclosure, buy an auxiliary case fan--orienting it so that the airflow
supports that of the p.s. fan. Every case with which I'm familiar already
has a cutout with screw holes for one. Any computer store, electronics
supply store or even Radio Shack carries these.

My question is why do almost all computer manufacturers today bother putting
these holes in place? Some (like HP) use them and put a fan there, but many
do not. Most of them are even left open. I've only seen them closed up on
Gateway 2000 computers. I find that especially odd considering that the hole
for the extra fan is usually right under the PSU...which makes me think that
all the air comes in that hole and not necessarily through the case as it
should.

Hi!

Large power supply does not increase computer performance.
That is classic urban myth. Either computer gets sufficient
power to execute the instruction at same speed - or computer
crashes. The PSU is not a motor. A bigger PSU does not make
the computer work faster.

Perhaps not. For the basic concept of a bigger PSU not making the computer
work any faster I agree with you. Obviously it cannot do so. However, for a
system starved for power, a crash may not be the immediate result. The CPU
may operate with reduced efficiency and/or speed if the power supply is
insufficient as a protection measure.

Therefore the addition of a bigger PSU that can handle the load better than
the original can create the illusion of the PSU somehow making for a faster
computer.

Same applies to CPU heat. Again, either CPU runs as crystal
oscillator speed or it crashes. Cooling does not make a CPU
run faster.

Definitely not always. Some systems (especially laptops) are able to
downclock so as to protect themselves from heat damage. Even some "smarter"
desktop motherboards can monitor their temperature and fan RPMs so as to
shutdown or downclock in the event of a thermal problem.

As for the statement about cooling not making a CPU run faster, ask any
overclocker about that. The more you cool the chip, the harder you can push
it, up until a point of failure occurs or reliable operation can no longer
be acheived.
:-)

William


Caroline wrote:
"Ricky Eck" wrote
Well, that "Could" increase performance. I would say that
putting a power supply two times the amount then you had was
the true increase of performance. However, the freezing up
problem can be caused by MANY things.

Yup.

snip
Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better
it will run.

To use basic language: I assure you a definite upper limit to the
CPU's speed exists, and once this limit is reached, cooling
further will have no effect.

Computers do not work at reduced efficiency if starved for
power. This made so painfully obvious even from a data sheet
for any simple logic IC. Either the computer works 100% fine
or it crashes: 0% performance. Either it crashes / freezes or
it keeps working. There is no inbetween. CPU does not
change speed and efficiency like an eletric motor. Basic
computer knowledge makes that woefully obvious.

Either the PSU is insufficient and computer crashes - also
called a complete and total failure. Or the computer works
at 100% performance.

This discussion is not about laptops - that have properly
sized power supplies. Discussion limited to a system that
somehow will run faster by increasing power supply.

For that matter, take off the heatsink on an Intel CPU. It
too will run slower - and not destroy itself like an AMD. But
that is well beyond the context of this discussion - and
should not be discussed in this thread.

Will cooling a CPU that runs at the constant master clock
frequency work more efficiently or faster when cooled more?
No. But even worse, not one good technical reason is provided
to justify these erroneous speculations. Even the reasons for
cooling an overclocked CPU is not valid. Neither more cooling
nor more power in a supply is going to make a CPU run faster.
Either it works at full speed or it crashes.

Most every desktop system works just fine on a 250 watt
power supply. Not obvious from the so many technical experts
who never even learned basic electrical principles; then
advocated "More Power" as a solution. Far more damning are so
many clone computers missing essential power supply
functions. So instead of buying a supply with essential and
necessary functions, those computer assemblers recommed "More
Power". Just another reason for 500 watt power supplies that
often cannot even output 500 watts.

Bigger PSU is often a solution to failure by the computer
assembler - who failed to learn basic facts. Bigger PSU does
not make a CPU work more efficient or faster. Even concepts
in overclocking are being misrepresented.

"William R. Walsh" wrote:
Perhaps not. For the basic concept of a bigger PSU not making
the computer work any faster I agree with you. Obviously it
cannot do so. However, for a system starved for power, a crash
may not be the immediate result. The CPU may operate with
reduced efficiency and/or speed if the power supply is
insufficient as a protection measure.

Therefore the addition of a bigger PSU that can handle the
load better than the original can create the illusion of the
PSU somehow making for a faster computer.

Same applies to CPU heat. Again, either CPU runs as crystal
oscillator speed or it crashes. Cooling does not make a CPU
run faster.

Definitely not always. Some systems (especially laptops) are
able to downclock so as to protect themselves from heat damage.
Even some "smarter" desktop motherboards can monitor their
temperature and fan RPMs so as to shutdown or downclock in the
event of a thermal problem.

As for the statement about cooling not making a CPU run faster,
ask any overclocker about that. The more you cool the chip, the
harder you can push it, up until a point of failure occurs or
reliable operation can no longer be acheived.

Franc is properly summarizing basic science as it conforms
to FCC regulation. Concept defined in one of the world's
greatest papers, written by Claude Shannon, reprinted in the
Bell Labs Technical Journal in July and Oct of 1948, then
reprinted again in Scientific American July 1949. IOW
Shannon's Law defines modem speed. Underlying concept should
be common knowledge to any computer power user. Concepts that
Franc Zabkar has properly summarized.

Power increases to permit 56K would create too much
crosstalk. Power is limited by FCC regulation. Shannon's Law
therefore says maximum data rates would be 53K.

Franc Zabkar wrote:
AFAIK, the FCC mandates restrictions on the maximum signal levels,
not the data rate. It's just that data rates in excess of 53333bps
usually require signal levels greater than those allowed. At least
that's the explanation that is often given at comp.dcom.modems.

- Franc Zabkar

w_tom wrote:
Computers do not work at reduced efficiency if starved for
power. This made so painfully obvious even from a data sheet
for any simple logic IC. Either the computer works 100% fine
or it crashes: 0% performance. Either it crashes / freezes or
it keeps working. There is no inbetween. CPU does not
change speed and efficiency like an eletric motor. Basic
computer knowledge makes that woefully obvious.

Hi...

But with all due respect, that is less than half of the
story.

Imagine this if you will. My system is running as your
refer to it 100% fine. (the power supply is more than
adequate)

Then an additional demand is placed on the power supply,
ie Explorer spins up all HDD's, a cd reader, a dvd reader,
a floppy, and perhaps interrogates some USB devices.

The available current is now perhaps woefully inadequate,
voltage drops, and (in your words), is now 0% fine

Most will say that the system is frozen or crashed.

And they will say that the problem is in opening
Explorer

Take care.

Ken

This is what I originally meant, however, this discussion has made a major
turn for the worst, so I backed out of it. Everyone has their "Facts" and
"Opinion" that they read on papers and in magazines. However, I use true
actual life facts. Mostly what I can see and touch. I seen where people
built (including myself) their own computer. Well, like you said. The PSU
was perfect for the original config. However, it was just for a CD Rom,
Floppy, HDD, ect. The basic system. Then I added a CD Burner, A DVD Player
(A total of 3 CD Drive Units), then added two more HDDs. Before I knew it,
many of the apps I ran, were no longer running at the same rate (crashing,
dragging, ect.). I was thinking that maybe there were additional programs
running in the back ground. But there wasn't. So I started removing the
power cables from the units installed, and lowe and behold, locks almost
completely ceased. So I thought, what the heck, I upgraded the PSU, and I
connected a higher wattage unit to my main. Connected everything up, and
never had a problem with it.

Hi...

But with all due respect, that is less than half of the
story.

Imagine this if you will. My system is running as your
refer to it 100% fine. (the power supply is more than
adequate)

Then an additional demand is placed on the power supply,
ie Explorer spins up all HDD's, a cd reader, a dvd reader,
a floppy, and perhaps interrogates some USB devices.

The available current is now perhaps woefully inadequate,
voltage drops, and (in your words), is now 0% fine

Most will say that the system is frozen or crashed.

And they will say that the problem is in opening
Explorer

Take care.

Ken

I remember a while back, in the P1 chip days, a group of people built a
tower system, that used a form of coolant. I don't think it was Freon, but
something similar to it. I am not going to get fully into, mainly because I
forget all the logistics of it. But I know their studies proved to increase
the power of the chip almost 4 times the amount. It was a 75 MHz and ran at
a 300 MHz rate. Like I said, it was many years back, and I just remember
the basics. I seen only a year or so back, a tower case that used water to
cool the chip. It worked the same as a radiator on a car. There was a
"radiator" that sat on the chip, kinda like the Heat Sink does now. And
there was another one in the back of the Tower, that fans blew through,
blowing the heat out, and re-cooling the water, to be returned to the
"Radiator" on the chip. If I remember correctly, this was for a dual chip
system. But could be used for a single chip also.

Another thing, too. Ever since I can remember, computer rooms have been ran
around 68-72 degrees, to keep the computers cool. So, if cooling a chip is
not important, how come companies continue to improve on the cooling systems
of the Processor Chips in computers? How come Muti Million dollar companies
spend more money on the conditions of their computer rooms (not meaning
actual hardware), then they spend on insurance in a year (Just
exaggerating)? There has to be some logic to it. I am sure Microsoft would
not spend money where it is not needed.

Rick


Definitely not always. Some systems (especially laptops) are able to
downclock so as to protect themselves from heat damage. Even some
"smarter"
desktop motherboards can monitor their temperature and fan RPMs so as to
shutdown or downclock in the event of a thermal problem.

As for the statement about cooling not making a CPU run faster, ask any
overclocker about that. The more you cool the chip, the harder you can
push
it, up until a point of failure occurs or reliable operation can no longer
be acheived.
:-)

William

Computers do not work at reduced efficiency if starved for
power. This made so painfully obvious even from a data sheet
for any simple logic IC.

That is so, but a computer is composed of many more components than the CPU.
Power supply problems can cause errors not so much on the CPU but with the
drives, for one.

What do you think will happen on a modern computer when the hard disk trips on
account of inadequate power?

Every component in your computer requires power to run. If the power supply is
unable to operate to the demands of the entire system, you will have problems.
While the CPU may be running hunky-dory, other parts may not run so well and
you can have crashes and hangups. In power, you've got to deal with volts and
amps, and both indicates watts.

Volts measure flow potential, amps measure current level, and watts measure
actual ability to perform work.

Here's something for you to check out:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question501.htm

As for overclocking, pushing a CPU at a higher rate of oscillation will put
more strain on it. This effect is well documented.

Most every desktop system works just fine on a 250 watt
power supply.

Not if you are running a high end P4 system which requires more than 250 watts
and uses it's own dedicated power socket.

Bigger PSU is often a solution to failure by the computer
assembler - who failed to learn basic facts. Bigger PSU does
not make a CPU work more efficient or faster. Even concepts
in overclocking are being misrepresented.

A power supply that has a higher level of overhead helps the entire system run
without problems. Running a power supply that is insufficient for the demands
of the computer will strain it and the computer will not be reliable.

As for overclocking, all it's about is pushing the CPU and RAM to levels beyond
what the manufacturer had indicated. However, you need better cooling to pull
it off as you do operate them at higher bus and multiplier levels, which puts
more of a strain on them. - Reinhart

As for
"parallel" port modems, I've heard they exist, but I've never seen
one. Serial port modems are always "hard".

I got the terminology mixed.

Choke it up to the always infamous brain-fart. - Reinhart