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Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
Long story short, I believe T-Mobile lied to the consumer by claiming
the LG Optimus F3 and LG Optimus L9 have both 4GB of internal memory and that they can use up to a 32 GB external microsd card. Without arguing why I feel that way, I just wish to ask here whether the complaint rightly goes to the FTC or to the FCC? On the one hand, it's (grossly) false and misleading advertising. On the other hand, it's a communication device. Whom would you file the complaint to? How? |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014, Danny D. wrote:
Long story short, I believe T-Mobile lied to the consumer by claiming the LG Optimus F3 and LG Optimus L9 have both 4GB of internal memory and that they can use up to a 32 GB external microsd card. Without arguing why I feel that way, I just wish to ask here whether the complaint rightly goes to the FTC or to the FCC? On the one hand, it's (grossly) false and misleading advertising. On the other hand, it's a communication device. Whom would you file the complaint to? How? It has nothing to do with the FCC. The FCC deals with frequency allocation, and technical compliance. SO if the phone was putting out unwanted signals, the FCC would be the place to go. But this is a consumer issue, there's no way it has anything to do with the FCC. Michael |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/04/2014 01:27 PM, Michael Black wrote:
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014, Danny D. wrote: Long story short, I believe T-Mobile lied to the consumer by claiming the LG Optimus F3 and LG Optimus L9 have both 4GB of internal memory and that they can use up to a 32 GB external microsd card. Without arguing why I feel that way, I just wish to ask here whether the complaint rightly goes to the FTC or to the FCC? On the one hand, it's (grossly) false and misleading advertising. On the other hand, it's a communication device. Whom would you file the complaint to? How? It has nothing to do with the FCC. The FCC deals with frequency allocation, and technical compliance. SO if the phone was putting out unwanted signals, the FCC would be the place to go. But this is a consumer issue, there's no way it has anything to do with the FCC. Michael Consumer complaints can start at the state AG's office. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/04/2014 11:44 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 04/04/2014 01:27 PM, Michael Black wrote: On Fri, 4 Apr 2014, Danny D. wrote: Long story short, I believe T-Mobile lied to the consumer by claiming the LG Optimus F3 and LG Optimus L9 have both 4GB of internal memory and that they can use up to a 32 GB external microsd card. Without arguing why I feel that way, I just wish to ask here whether the complaint rightly goes to the FTC or to the FCC? On the one hand, it's (grossly) false and misleading advertising. On the other hand, it's a communication device. Whom would you file the complaint to? How? It has nothing to do with the FCC. The FCC deals with frequency allocation, and technical compliance. SO if the phone was putting out unwanted signals, the FCC would be the place to go. But this is a consumer issue, there's no way it has anything to do with the FCC. Michael Consumer complaints can start at the state AG's office. Cheers Phil Hobbs Did somebody round down? Sheesh!. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 13:27:15 -0400, Michael Black wrote:
But this is a consumer issue, there's no way it has anything to do with the FCC. I can't disagree with you, as that's why I had asked the question. The confusing thing is that the FCC web page complaint form: http://www.fcc.gov/complaints Has a section for "Wireless Telephone" "Unlawful Advertising". Since this advertising has all five elements of fraud, one would think that the FCC is involved. Meanwhile, I am going to fill out the FTC complaint form: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details#crnt |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 15:35:52 -0700, Danny DiAmico wrote:
The confusing thing is that the FCC web page complaint form: http://www.fcc.gov/complaints Has a section for "Wireless Telephone" "Unlawful Advertising". Specifically, the FCC has a section for: Deceptive or unlawful advertising or marketing by a communications company (does NOT include Telemarketing) So, it seems the right place is the FCC and not the FTC (or so I think at the moment). |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 13:24:02 -0700, dave wrote:
Did somebody round down? The difference between 4GB and almost zero GB of usable memory is more than a round off error ... |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 14:44:53 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Consumer complaints can start at the state AG's office. Thanks. I never complained to an AG before, but what I found on the FCC web site says I need to fill out the "Form 2000A - Deceptive or Unlawful Advertising and Promotion Complaint": http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/Form2000A.pdf Then I will call the FTC at 888-225-5322 to provide the necessary information. And I will fax the form to 866-418-0232, and send a paper copy to the address: Federal Communications Commission Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau Consumer Complaints 445 12th Street, SW Washington, D.C. 20554 Basically, if you go to the T-Mobile web site, they don't tell you the usable memory is nearly zero: http://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-5777 And, if you call them, they will email you the same information (saying the usable memory is 4GB when, in fact, it's nearly zero GB). |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 15:55:13 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
Whom would you file the complaint to? I filed form 2000A to the FCC: https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/f...orm_type=2000A Usually, just one FCC complaint won't do much. If lots of people complained, they'd do something. But, for just one complaint, I'm told they just send it to the manufacturer, who sends back a reply to the FCC, and who gives you a call. That's pretty much it. Nothing happens unless other people are as upset as I that they lie about the available memory. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 16:04:15 -0700, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 15:55:13 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote: Whom would you file the complaint to? I filed form 2000A to the FCC: https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/f...orm_type=2000A Usually, just one FCC complaint won't do much. If lots of people complained, they'd do something. But, for just one complaint, I'm told they just send it to the manufacturer, who sends back a reply to the FCC, and who gives you a call. That's pretty much it. Nothing happens unless other people are as upset as I that they lie about the available memory. I'm not clear on what you're upset about. From your other thread, it seems to be centered around not being able to use the SD card for applications, so the obvious question becomes, did you assume that you'd be able to do those things, or did you see something in writing that led you to believe that you could? Like I wrote in your other thread, I never expected or assumed that I'd be able to use external storage for applications, so my expectations weren't shattered. I'm able to do exactly what I expected I'd be able to do: use the external storage for content rather than apps. -- Paul Miner |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 15:55:13 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
Long story short, I believe T-Mobile lied to the consumer by claiming the LG Optimus F3 and LG Optimus L9 have both 4GB of internal memory and that they can use up to a 32 GB external microsd card. Well, they *do* have 4 GB of internal memory. And they use 'most all of it. And they *can* use "up to a 32 GB external microsd card." Just not for anything your little heart desires -- rather, only for what the OEM allows. No lies there -- just truth, but rather less than the *whole* truth :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp -- Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 18:28:26 -0500, Paul Miner wrote:
I'm not clear on what you're upset about. Basically, I would never have bought the phone had I known there were only 600 MB of "usable" memory on it. When I called T-Mobile, they insisted it had 4GB of internal storage, and that you could add a 32 GB card. It turns out that it has about 600 MB of "usable" internal memory, and, the SD card slot is virtually worthless (for moving applications onto or installing onto). Had T-Mobile not lied in my many (well documented) calls, I never would have bought the phone. So, all five elements of fraud are (arguably) evident: http://quizlet.com/19041431/5-elemen...d-flash-cards/ 1. a false representation of fact 2. knowledge of the falsity by party making false representation 3. intent to deceive the party by making false representation 4. reasonable reliance by the innocent party 5. actual loss suffered by the innocent party |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:18:59 -0400, tlvp wrote:
No lies there -- just truth, but rather less than the *whole* truth Actually, I have many documented phone calls to T-Mobile, with a witness (my wife) who was known to the T-Mobile as a witness when I had asked the question each time. Many times they told me the "usable memory" was 4GB! In each case, I have the first name and employee ID of the person who provided that errant information. The errors are repeated, widespread, across Customer Service, Customer Service Supervisors, Technical Support, and Technical Support Supervisors. Had I known the phones were unusable (they actually have less than 1 MB of usable memory out of the box), I never would have bought them. Had T-Mobile told me the truth when I ordered the phones from them, I never would have bought them. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
"Danny D." wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 18:28:26 -0500, Paul Miner wrote: I'm not clear on what you're upset about. Basically, I would never have bought the phone had I known there were only 600 MB of "usable" memory on it. When I called T-Mobile, they insisted it had 4GB of internal storage, and that you could add a 32 GB card. It turns out that it has about 600 MB of "usable" internal memory, and, the SD card slot is virtually worthless (for moving applications onto or installing onto). Had T-Mobile not lied in my many (well documented) calls, I never would have bought the phone. So, all five elements of fraud are (arguably) evident: http://quizlet.com/19041431/5-elemen...d-flash-cards/ 1. a false representation of fact 2. knowledge of the falsity by party making false representation 3. intent to deceive the party by making false representation 4. reasonable reliance by the innocent party 5. actual loss suffered by the innocent party As I understand it from my own Android experiences, apps that the phone comes pre-programmed with, mostly can't be deleted from the internal storage - and some of these take up a lot of space. And then the reason that many - if not most - downloaded applications cannot be moved to the SD card, is because this is a slow device compared to the internal memory, and this can screw with the operation of these apps. The solution, of course, is to 'root' the phone. Then you can do what you like with the storage ... Arfa |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
"Danny D." wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:18:59 -0400, tlvp wrote: No lies there -- just truth, but rather less than the *whole* truth Actually, I have many documented phone calls to T-Mobile, with a witness (my wife) who was known to the T-Mobile as a witness when I had asked the question each time. Many times they told me the "usable memory" was 4GB! In each case, I have the first name and employee ID of the person who provided that errant information. The errors are repeated, widespread, across Customer Service, Customer Service Supervisors, Technical Support, and Technical Support Supervisors. Had I known the phones were unusable (they actually have less than 1 MB of usable memory out of the box), I never would have bought them. Had T-Mobile told me the truth when I ordered the phones from them, I never would have bought them. From my experience of the Android platform on phones, you won't find it is much different from your experience with the T-Mobile phone, right across the board. Arfa |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 02:58:57 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:
The solution, of course, is to 'root' the phone. Then you can do what you like with the storage ... I've never rooted a phone, but, I may be forced to do so, just to make the phone usable. I do agree with you that *all* the preloaded apps won't allow you to move them. I guess if you could move them, you could delete them. Mewonders if Google makes certain apps non-removable (e.g., Chrome) because it's in there best interest. Yet, mewonders why T-Mobile makes certain apps (e.g., T-Mobile TV) non-removable, since there are plenty of their apps I'd never ever use but I can't get rid of. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 03:01:39 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:
From my experience of the Android platform on phones, you won't find it is much different from your experience with the T-Mobile phone, right across the board. I think the "problem" is that the "little lie" becomes a "big lie" the closer your internal memory gets to 4GB. For example, if they lie by 4GB in a 32GB phone, you still have a usable 28GB of "usable" memory. Likewise, if they lie by 4GB in a 16GB or even 8GB phone, you still have a usable 12GB and 4GB respectively. But, if they lie by 4GB in a 4GB phone, you end up with a useless phone. Compound that lie with the lie of the promise of the SD card, and you are dead in the water with a phone you never would have bought, had the carrier provided the truth when you looked up the specs and asked on the phone about the "usable" memory. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:46:05 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
Mewonders if Google makes certain apps non-removable (e.g., Chrome) because it's in there best interest. Oooops. "their" best interest! |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/04/2014 09:24 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:18:59 -0400, tlvp wrote: No lies there -- just truth, but rather less than the *whole* truth Actually, I have many documented phone calls to T-Mobile, with a witness (my wife) who was known to the T-Mobile as a witness when I had asked the question each time. Many times they told me the "usable memory" was 4GB! In each case, I have the first name and employee ID of the person who provided that errant information. The errors are repeated, widespread, across Customer Service, Customer Service Supervisors, Technical Support, and Technical Support Supervisors. Had I known the phones were unusable (they actually have less than 1 MB of usable memory out of the box), I never would have bought them. Had T-Mobile told me the truth when I ordered the phones from them, I never would have bought them. I'm no lawyer, but I've watched several lawyer shows on TV. ;^) Judging by that, I'd say that if the company reps said "usable" memory, you haven't a leg to stand on. The memory on the phone is *usable." You use it every time you turn the phone on. It's usefulness may be limited, but that's different from "unusable." That's what the lawyers would argue, anyway. Now, if they used the term "available," that might be a different story. Then again, it might not. As I said, I'm no lawyer. Be aware that you aren't just taking on T-Mobile with this complaint. You are taking on the entire computer industry. And the computer industry has been doing this for a very long time. One of my first computers, back in the mid-80's, was an Atari 800XL. It was advertised as having 64K of RAM. It did, but only 48K was usable without special manipulation which most users didn't know how to do. After a while, I bought an aftermarket kit that boosted the RAM to 256K. I KNOW it had 256K, as I installed the chips myself. Even so, the new memory was only available in 16K blocks and one at a time, through the same manipulation used to access any more than the basic 48K. Was it fraud to say I had a 256K computer when only 48K was easily available? I didn't think so, because the full 256K was *usable*. It just wasn't easy. TJ |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/04/2014 09:24 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:18:59 -0400, tlvp wrote: No lies there -- just truth, but rather less than the *whole* truth Actually, I have many documented phone calls to T-Mobile, with a witness (my wife) who was known to the T-Mobile as a witness when I had asked the question each time. Many times they told me the "usable memory" was 4GB! In each case, I have the first name and employee ID of the person who provided that errant information. The errors are repeated, widespread, across Customer Service, Customer Service Supervisors, Technical Support, and Technical Support Supervisors. Had I known the phones were unusable (they actually have less than 1 MB of usable memory out of the box), I never would have bought them. Had T-Mobile told me the truth when I ordered the phones from them, I never would have bought them. If I were you and I still wanted to pursue the matter, I'd involve some consumer advocate groups like Consumer Reports. My guess is they already have several others who feel as betrayed as you do. Maybe even contact a US Senator looking to get re-elected. Try one of mine, Chuck Schumer. He's always looking for causes to "investigate" to get his name in the paper. TJ |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/05/2014 09:31 AM, TJ wrote:
Maybe even contact a US Senator looking to get re-elected. Try one of mine, Chuck Schumer. He's always looking for causes to "investigate" to get his name in the paper. Wow. Really revealed my age on that one. I should have said, "in the news." TJ |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
"Danny D." wrote in message ... On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 02:58:57 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote: The solution, of course, is to 'root' the phone. Then you can do what you like with the storage ... I've never rooted a phone, but, I may be forced to do so, just to make the phone usable. My son is a whizz with this sort of thing. He recently installed the latest Samsung update on his phone, but it was so buggy, that it screwed many things that had been previously ok, including making it incredibly slow, and generating random freeze-ups and crashes. Eventually, in frustration at not being able to reinstate the previous version, he just rooted the thing. He now enjoys full speed and stable performance, with the added benefit that he can now use the internal and external storage just as he wishes. I do agree with you that *all* the preloaded apps won't allow you to move them. I guess if you could move them, you could delete them. I had a problem with mine rejecting texts because it said that it was out of storage space, but when you went looking for what was actually left free, it declared that there was plenty. I managed to shift a couple of apps to the card, and that freed up enough space to keep me going, but I was still not happy. Eventually, I found an app on there that was something like "Samsung Updater" which was a utility for keeping apps downloaded from their app store up to date. This app was massive, and since I don't have anything on the phone that would need it, I tried to see if it would delete and Lo! it did, which freed up considerable space. Thing is, I have a phone for phoning and texting with. I'm not really interested in its 'smart' features other than the ability to use it as a camera and a couple of other useful things. I have no need to run Faceache or ****ter or the 101 games and other **** that kids run. If I really want that, then I have a tablet or computer. Unfortunately, the current Android platforms that the phone manufacturers have locked into their products, just don't allow me to customise my phone to the level that I want to, which seems to be your problem as well. Seems to rather defeat the original concept of Android being 'open', to me ... Arfa Mewonders if Google makes certain apps non-removable (e.g., Chrome) because it's in there best interest. Yet, mewonders why T-Mobile makes certain apps (e.g., T-Mobile TV) non-removable, since there are plenty of their apps I'd never ever use but I can't get rid of. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/05/2014 06:33 AM, TJ wrote:
On 04/05/2014 09:31 AM, TJ wrote: Maybe even contact a US Senator looking to get re-elected. Try one of mine, Chuck Schumer. He's always looking for causes to "investigate" to get his name in the paper. Wow. Really revealed my age on that one. I should have said, "in the news." TJ What is the OP using to determine he can't use the memory outside the phone? I've never seen that (except Apple junk). |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/05/2014 10:47 AM, dave wrote:
On 04/05/2014 06:33 AM, TJ wrote: On 04/05/2014 09:31 AM, TJ wrote: Maybe even contact a US Senator looking to get re-elected. Try one of mine, Chuck Schumer. He's always looking for causes to "investigate" to get his name in the paper. Wow. Really revealed my age on that one. I should have said, "in the news." TJ What is the OP using to determine he can't use the memory outside the phone? I've never seen that (except Apple junk). He wants to move apps to his external card, mostly bloatware installed as part of the system by T-Mobile, and the OS won't let him do so. So, because he can't use it the way he wants to use it, he has declared it "useless." TJ |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:47:53 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:
Eventually, in frustration at not being able to reinstate the previous version, he just rooted the thing. Short of rooting the phone, I just called LG technical support at 800-243-0000. They said that after ICS (Android 4.0, ice cream sandwich), Google disabled the ability to move or load apps onto the SD card. Is that correct information? If so, I should have known that. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:47:53 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:
I managed to shift a couple of apps to the card, and that freed up enough space to keep me going, I can't shift *any* of the pre-installed apps to the SD card! The settings apps button doesn't have a MOVE (or delete). How can you do that? When I called LG, just now, at 800-243-0000, the representative (Leyda, in Mobile Communications Support) said that, after Ice Cream Sandwich, Google (not LG) disabled the ability to load apps onto the SD card, and also removed the ability to MOVE apps to the SD card. So, if that's true, how did you move apps to the SD card? (I'm so confused.) |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 09:24:32 -0400, TJ wrote:
Judging by that, I'd say that if the company reps said "usable" memory, you haven't a leg to stand on. The memory on the phone is *usable." You use it every time you turn the phone on. It's usefulness may be limited, but that's different from "unusable." That's what the lawyers would argue, anyway. I do agree with you. I think my complaint won't carry much weight with either the FTC or the FCC unless (and this is the biggie), unless I'm not alone in considering this deceptive advertising. For example, if hundreds or thousands of consumers complain with the same complaint of deceptive advertising, then the FTC and/or FCC, I think, would take it seriously. If I'm the only one who is complaining of deceptive advertising, then, I'm simply the one fool in the crowd who fell for it. It's no different than when people complain about an automotive defect or an advertising scam. If enough people complain about deceptive advertising, the FTC and/or FCC will listen. One complaint is just one disgruntled consumer. HINT: If you feel like complaining, you get 1,000 characters on the online FCC complaint form & 3,000 characters on the online FTC form: FCC 888-225-5322 http://www.fcc.gov/complaints (deceptive advertising) FTC 877-382-4357 https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details#crnt |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 09:31:17 -0400, TJ wrote:
If I were you and I still wanted to pursue the matter, I'd involve some consumer advocate groups like Consumer Reports. My guess is they already have several others who feel as betrayed as you do. I've always wanted to get Consumer Reports (aka Consumers Union) involved, especially when the *true* test of how much *usable* memory is far different than the carrier's *advertised* internal memory specifications. But, I could never find the correct *person* to speak to. Everyone I spoke to had absolutely no clue what I was saying (technically). Basically, all my prior inquiries in the past went into a black hole: http://consumersunion.org/about/contact-us/ Consumers Union in NY 914-378-2000 (press 0 for the operator) In Texas 512-477-4431, in Washington 202-462-6262, SF 415-431-6747 The best I could do is write a measly review: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/p...ory-select.htm But, what we'd like to ask CR to do is run a *test* of the true available memory on the budget smartphones, which should be right down their alley. For that, we'd need to get an *editor* interested in the concept. http://consumersunion.org/experts-staff/ Do you have any decent Consumers Union contact information for someone who would understand that, and, more importantly, *care* about writing such an article on budget smartphone usable memory? I don't. (They never answer email to their general inbox.) |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:44:48 -0400, TJ wrote:
He wants to move apps to his external card, mostly bloatware installed as part of the system by T-Mobile, and the OS won't let him do so. So, because he can't use it the way he wants to use it, he has declared it "useless." This is correct, but I would also like to clarify: I had bought the phone *assuming* I could augment the puny 4GB internal ROM with a cheap $30 class-10 32GB external micro-SD card. However, apparently Google has disabled the ability to MOVE applications to the external SD card and they have disabled the ability to DOWNLOAD applications TO the SD card, in Android versions after Ice Cream Sandwich (according to Leyda at LG Mobile Communications 800-243-0000). LG tells me they don't install anything, so, it's T-Mobile who puts on the operating system and the pre-installed apps. The operating system plus the pre-installed (non-removable) apps takes up all but 600MB of the internal memory, out of the box. Had I known this was, in effect, a 600MB phone, even with a 32GB external memory card, I would never have purchased the phone. You can call me stupid, but, it wasn't obvious to me that the SD card slot was nearly useless, since you apparently can't install apps on the SD card. With only 600MB available, in toto, for apps, the phone becomes almost wholly useless as a "smart" phone (IMHO). To be clear, it's fine as a voice phone; but it's nearly useless as a smart phone, IMHO, because it only allows a paltry 600MB of apps. My mistake was in believing that I could augment the admittedly puny 4GB of internal memory with the 32GB card. I believe the reviews and the carrier should have told me that the phone has only 600 MB of storage space for apps, since there is absolutely no way anyone could know this ahead of time. That last point is critical. There is no way you can know this information without both having the phone in your hands, and in adding your Google Play account so that you can try to download apps. Only *after* you've downloaded 600 MB of apps will you realize that the stated 1.8 GB of "usable memory" that the OS reports is a bold-faced lie. Since it's impossible to know the true available memory (of 600 MB) without owning the phone yourself, I believe the carrier should have told me this information when I asked them about the "usable" memory. While you can call me an idiot for thinking that the phone had anything more than 600 MB of "usable memory", does my argument at least make sense to you? That is, would YOU have been similarly deceived or did you know, from the start, that the 4GB phone is really only a 600MB phone? (i.e., am I the only idiot out there who was fooled?) |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:49:16 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 03:01:39 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote: From my experience of the Android platform on phones, you won't find it is much different from your experience with the T-Mobile phone, right across the board. I think the "problem" is that the "little lie" becomes a "big lie" the closer your internal memory gets to 4GB. For example, if they lie by 4GB in a 32GB phone, you still have a usable 28GB of "usable" memory. Likewise, if they lie by 4GB in a 16GB or even 8GB phone, you still have a usable 12GB and 4GB respectively. But, if they lie by 4GB in a 4GB phone, you end up with a useless phone. Can you expand a bit on why you feel that the phone is useless? Surely it works as advertised, able to do everything it's supposed to do. Is it the case that you have one or more apps in mind that you'd like to install, but you can't because there isn't enough space available? If that's the case, I don't think I would call it useless. -- Paul Miner |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 09:24:32 -0400, TJ wrote:
Be aware that you aren't just taking on T-Mobile with this complaint. You are taking on the entire computer industry. And the computer industry has been doing this for a very long time. One of my first computers, back in the mid-80's, was an Atari 800XL. It was advertised as having 64K of RAM. It did, but only 48K was usable without special manipulation which most users didn't know how to do. After a while, I bought an aftermarket kit that boosted the RAM to 256K. I KNOW it had 256K, as I installed the chips myself. Even so, the new memory was only available in 16K blocks and one at a time, through the same manipulation used to access any more than the basic 48K. Was it fraud to say I had a 256K computer when only 48K was easily available? I didn't think so, because the full 256K was *usable*. It just wasn't easy. Another example from that era: Commodore 64, 64KB of memory, but when you turn it on, it says "Commodore 64 Basic V2 38911 Basic Bytes Free". As above, you could get to some of the additional memory through paging, but I'm sure it was beyond most people at the time. -- Paul Miner |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:25:37 -0500, Paul Miner wrote:
Can you expand a bit on why you feel that the phone is useless? Surely it works as advertised, able to do everything it's supposed to do. Is it the case that you have one or more apps in mind that you'd like to install, but you can't because there isn't enough space available? If that's the case, I don't think I would call it useless. Hi Paul, You are exactly right. The phone is actually a fine phone, out of the box, for anyone who doesn't wish to install any more than a total of 600 MB of applications (and their data). However, if the user wishes to install more than 600MB of applications (and their data, such as offline maps), then the phone will not allow that to happen. So, it's useless (to me), from my standpoint, since I had *assumed* that I could augment the admittedly puny 4GB of internal storage with the 32 GB microSD card. It turns out that this is, in effect, a 600MB (internal storage for apps) phone. Had I known that, I never would have purchased the phone. I keep beating my head against the wall, chastising myself for buying the thing. It's my fault. I do agree. I was stupid. I agree. I'm an idiot for buying this phone because I *thought* the sd card would hold apps (it did for my Gingerbread Android phone, for example). My key question is HOW do you guys seem to inherently *know* that the sd card can't hold apps? I always thought it did? How did *you* know that it didn't? Note: The carrier never told me this until it was too late. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:30:08 -0500, Paul Miner wrote:
Another example from that era: Commodore 64, 64KB of memory, but when you turn it on, it says "Commodore 64 Basic V2 38911 Basic Bytes Free". As above, you could get to some of the additional memory through paging, but I'm sure it was beyond most people at the time. Hi Paul, Along those lines, it's currently beyond my capabilities, but, I may have to root the 4GB phone (not that I really know what that entails) in order to free up some of the 3.4 GB that is currently being used by the T-Mobile Android 4.1.2, P76920h, LG Optimus L9 smartphone (model LG-P769). Googling, I see that the rooting process is risky; but, if I faithfully follow it, do you have any idea of what I can reasonably expect by way of gains? That is, can I only hope to free up 10 MB of memory? 20MB? 100MB? 1GB? QUESTION: If I root the phone, what can I reasonably expect to free up? |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 20:18:59 -0400, tlvp
wrote: On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 15:55:13 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote: Long story short, I believe T-Mobile lied to the consumer by claiming the LG Optimus F3 and LG Optimus L9 have both 4GB of internal memory and that they can use up to a 32 GB external microsd card. Well, they *do* have 4 GB of internal memory. And they use 'most all of it. And they *can* use "up to a 32 GB external microsd card." Just not for anything your little heart desires -- rather, only for what the OEM allows. No lies there -- just truth, but rather less than the *whole* truth :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp And why no whining about RAM? My first smartphone had 4GB storage and 512MB RAM. The problem with it was the limited RAM, maiking you stop applications to run others. You have to assess your needs, do your homework , and make the decision. caveat emptor |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 20:02:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:25:37 -0500, Paul Miner wrote: Can you expand a bit on why you feel that the phone is useless? Surely it works as advertised, able to do everything it's supposed to do. Is it the case that you have one or more apps in mind that you'd like to install, but you can't because there isn't enough space available? If that's the case, I don't think I would call it useless. Hi Paul, You are exactly right. The phone is actually a fine phone, out of the box, for anyone who doesn't wish to install any more than a total of 600 MB of applications (and their data). However, if the user wishes to install more than 600MB of applications (and their data, such as offline maps), then the phone will not allow that to happen. So, it's useless (to me), from my standpoint, since I had *assumed* that I could augment the admittedly puny 4GB of internal storage with the 32 GB microSD card. It turns out that this is, in effect, a 600MB (internal storage for apps) phone. Had I known that, I never would have purchased the phone. I keep beating my head against the wall, chastising myself for buying the thing. It's my fault. I do agree. I was stupid. I agree. I'm an idiot for buying this phone because I *thought* the sd card would hold apps (it did for my Gingerbread Android phone, for example). My key question is HOW do you guys seem to inherently *know* that the sd card can't hold apps? We don't, but doing your research will find it. I always thought it did? How did *you* know that it didn't? Note: The carrier never told me this until it was too late. 600MB provides a reasonable amount of space for apps. Wanting to store content, like offline maps, will eat space faster. Google Play shows the size of apps so you can estimate what the app uses of storage. My apps use over 2GB but there are about 200 of them on my phone. The people ate T-Mobile are sales people, and T-Mobile is a marketing company not a technology company. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 18:34:12 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 09:24:32 -0400, TJ wrote: Judging by that, I'd say that if the company reps said "usable" memory, you haven't a leg to stand on. The memory on the phone is *usable." You use it every time you turn the phone on. It's usefulness may be limited, but that's different from "unusable." That's what the lawyers would argue, anyway. I do agree with you. I think my complaint won't carry much weight with either the FTC or the FCC unless (and this is the biggie), unless I'm not alone in considering this deceptive advertising. For example, if hundreds or thousands of consumers complain with the same complaint of deceptive advertising, then the FTC and/or FCC, I think, would take it seriously. If I'm the only one who is complaining of deceptive advertising, then, I'm simply the one fool in the crowd who fell for it. It's no different than when people complain about an automotive defect or an advertising scam. If enough people complain about deceptive advertising, the FTC and/or FCC will listen. One complaint is just one disgruntled consumer. HINT: If you feel like complaining, you get 1,000 characters on the online FCC complaint form & 3,000 characters on the online FTC form: FCC 888-225-5322 http://www.fcc.gov/complaints (deceptive advertising) FTC 877-382-4357 https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details#crnt It's less deceptive advertising than the failure to do your research. You will get nowhere with regulators on this. Education is expensive. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 20:09:39 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:30:08 -0500, Paul Miner wrote: Another example from that era: Commodore 64, 64KB of memory, but when you turn it on, it says "Commodore 64 Basic V2 38911 Basic Bytes Free". As above, you could get to some of the additional memory through paging, but I'm sure it was beyond most people at the time. Hi Paul, Along those lines, it's currently beyond my capabilities, but, I may have to root the 4GB phone (not that I really know what that entails) in order to free up some of the 3.4 GB that is currently being used by the T-Mobile Android 4.1.2, P76920h, LG Optimus L9 smartphone (model LG-P769). Googling, I see that the rooting process is risky; but, if I faithfully follow it, do you have any idea of what I can reasonably expect by way of gains? That is, can I only hope to free up 10 MB of memory? 20MB? 100MB? 1GB? QUESTION: If I root the phone, what can I reasonably expect to free up? http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2439667 The same site has a forum for the L9. People there can tell you whatever you want to know. |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 19:15:38 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:44:48 -0400, TJ wrote: He wants to move apps to his external card, mostly bloatware installed as part of the system by T-Mobile, and the OS won't let him do so. So, because he can't use it the way he wants to use it, he has declared it "useless." This is correct, but I would also like to clarify: I had bought the phone *assuming* I could augment the puny 4GB internal ROM with a cheap $30 class-10 32GB external micro-SD card. However, apparently Google has disabled the ability to MOVE applications to the external SD card and they have disabled the ability to DOWNLOAD applications TO the SD card, in Android versions after Ice Cream Sandwich (according to Leyda at LG Mobile Communications 800-243-0000). LG tells me they don't install anything, so, it's T-Mobile who puts on the operating system and the pre-installed apps. The operating system plus the pre-installed (non-removable) apps takes up all but 600MB of the internal memory, out of the box. Had I known this was, in effect, a 600MB phone, even with a 32GB external memory card, I would never have purchased the phone. You can call me stupid, but, it wasn't obvious to me that the SD card slot was nearly useless, since you apparently can't install apps on the SD card. With only 600MB available, in toto, for apps, the phone becomes almost wholly useless as a "smart" phone (IMHO). To be clear, it's fine as a voice phone; but it's nearly useless as a smart phone, IMHO, because it only allows a paltry 600MB of apps. My mistake was in believing that I could augment the admittedly puny 4GB of internal memory with the 32GB card. I believe the reviews and the carrier should have told me that the phone has only 600 MB of storage space for apps, since there is absolutely no way anyone could know this ahead of time. That last point is critical. There is no way you can know this information without both having the phone in your hands, and in adding your Google Play account so that you can try to download apps. Only *after* you've downloaded 600 MB of apps will you realize that the stated 1.8 GB of "usable memory" that the OS reports is a bold-faced lie. Since it's impossible to know the true available memory (of 600 MB) without owning the phone yourself, I believe the carrier should have told me this information when I asked them about the "usable" memory. While you can call me an idiot for thinking that the phone had anything more than 600 MB of "usable memory", does my argument at least make sense to you? Only a little and it's wearing thin. That is, would YOU have been similarly deceived or did you know, from the start, that the 4GB phone is really only a 600MB phone? (i.e., am I the only idiot out there who was fooled?) |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROMlies?
On 04/05/2014 02:34 PM, Danny D. wrote:
One complaint is just one disgruntled consumer. HINT: If you feel like complaining, you get 1,000 characters on the online FCC complaint form & 3,000 characters on the online FTC form: FCC 888-225-5322 http://www.fcc.gov/complaints (deceptive advertising) FTC 877-382-4357 https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details#crnt I have nothing to complain about. I knew the "full" capacity of the internal storage wasn't available for my use, just as the "full" capacity of my computer's hard drives aren't available. I've known it for decades. TJ |
Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?
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