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beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message m... I don't fear Windows, I refuse to pay for an operating system, Hard to get a laptop these days without Windows already included whether you use it or not. But hey if you also refuse to pay for the hardware, your problems are solved! :-) The Kernel has thousands of drivers already installed. And more thousands not installed. Just as with Windows. Please name a consumer device (other than Apple) that you would like to use with Linux that had a driver issue. I have found Linux to be way more plug-and-play than Windows, Yes it is *IF* the hardware manufacturer bothers with Linux (still all too rare) or the Linux developer types get around to writing them for free. You may wait a long time (or forever) for stuff with a very small user base. Trevor. |
beware of the updates you install
On 11/28/2013 12:28 AM, Trevor wrote:
"dave" wrote in message m... I don't fear Windows, I refuse to pay for an operating system, Hard to get a laptop these days without Windows already included whether you use it or not. Hard but not impossible, however I have no use for another notebook. The fact that manufacturers include it free says something. But hey if you also refuse to pay for the hardware, your problems are solved! :-) But hey are you suggesting I'm a thief? The Kernel has thousands of drivers already installed. And more thousands not installed. Just as with Windows. Please name a consumer device (other than Apple) that you would like to use with Linux that had a driver issue. I have found Linux to be way more plug-and-play than Windows, |
beware of the updates you install
While we're talking about computers, operating systems, and Al...
Have you seen the commercial for the iPad Air? It appears Microsoft has finally forced Apple into defensive advertising. The ad talks about all the things you can actually /do/ on an iPad -- a machine without a useful keyboard or pointing device * -- "start a poem, finish a symphony". ** Apple has always been more about image than what you can actually do with their products. * I've used an iPad once. Bleh. Touchscreens don't work as easily as we are led to believe. There is a learning curve. (The touchpad on my notebook, and the gestural input for my graphics tablet, are comparably not-easy.) ** That particular part of the commercial parodies a famous Irving Penn photograph. https://www.google.com/search?q=irvi...620&bih=106 0 |
beware of the updates you install
On 28/11/2013 13:09, dave wrote:
On 11/28/2013 12:28 AM, Trevor wrote: "dave" wrote in message The Kernel has thousands of drivers already installed. And more thousands not installed. Just as with Windows. Please name a consumer device (other than Apple) that you would like to use with Linux that had a driver issue. I have found Linux to be way more plug-and-play than Windows, You seem to have ignored the list I posted earlier..... -- Tciao for Now! John. |
beware of the updates you install
On 11/28/2013 05:50 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 28/11/2013 13:09, dave wrote: On 11/28/2013 12:28 AM, Trevor wrote: "dave" wrote in message The Kernel has thousands of drivers already installed. And more thousands not installed. Just as with Windows. Please name a consumer device (other than Apple) that you would like to use with Linux that had a driver issue. I have found Linux to be way more plug-and-play than Windows, You seem to have ignored the list I posted earlier..... A camera? A smart-card reader? did you lsusb them to get chipset information? There are several packages in the Ubuntu world for handling RAW files. http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-a.../msg94052.html You do need to do a little digging, which is where Linux really shines; nobody offers you a solution upon receipt of payment. It's all for the love of the medium. The open source world is dripping wet with good karma. |
beware of the updates you install
"William Sommerwerck" writes:
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message nacquisition... Wow! Someone who has heard of FM!! FrameMaker (not to be confused with PageMaker) was originally created for some OS other than Windows. Right... Several UNIX platforms -- Sun, NeXT, SCO, HP (among others), and Mac. Windows was added at FM4, 1993-ish, IIRC. (I knew the guy who led the port to Windows. Good fellow, very savvy engineer. I jokingly asked him if he felt the need for a stay at a mental health spa after that effort. He nodded vigorously.) I used it for a while about 15 years ago, in its first Windows incarnation. It had the most-poorly designed dialog boxes for any piece of software I have ever used. Not sure what you were seeing. The UI was fairly consistent among the various platforms, though because of the underlying dictates of the windows UI resources sometimes things were a bit squirrely. At least back then, they chose system resources rather than create their own so as to reflect each user's general tweaks to the UI. These days, they have a custom windowing system, which I don't like because (a) it reflects none of my general windows tweaks and (b) they don't provide much in the way of appearance tweaks in their custom system! (Re-inventing the wheel and making it square...) In general FM dialogs could get confusing because they are very dense -- lots of stuff you can do. While a little off-putting at first, once you got used to this you appreciate having so much power close at hand. Contrast to Interleaf (competitor of the day) when most things were 3-4 menu pulls down with few or no keyboard shortcuts, and lots of clicking through "single purpose" dialogs -- THAT was crazy-making if you wanted any speed with the UI. I hope it's gotten better. Yes and no; YMMV. While the new UIs since FM9 are more "contemporary," many of us who have used FM for 20+ years don't like the new UI dictates (I still use 10 year old FM7 for most of my daily doc needs, as do many folks). As with many applications these days, some UI designers think they know best and force you into something that's far less efficient. It's unsettling how often UI folks don't actually use the product they're working on -- they just do what seems pretty with little understanding of the work flows. Last fall, at Adobe's invitation, I spent 90 minutes on the phone with the new UI guy for FM pleading with him to keep certain UI needs and standards in mind. Mostly, doc professionals were sick of "cute" and just wanted the damn UI to not get in their way. I think he got the message, and I was not the only one making the same complaints. We shall see what comes along... Frank Mobile Audio -- |
beware of the updates you install
On 28/11/2013 14:59, dave wrote:
Stuff not working under Linux A camera? A smart-card reader? did you lsusb them to get chipset information? There are several packages in the Ubuntu world for handling RAW files. But not, as far as I can tell, the ones generated by this particular camera. Fuji have recently changed their RAW file format. http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-a.../msg94052.html My Zoom R24 doesn't appear to be covered. You do need to do a little digging, which is where Linux really shines; nobody offers you a solution upon receipt of payment. It's all for the love of the medium. The open source world is dripping wet with good karma. And the Windows world is full of stuff that "just works". I like this idea, it frees me up to actually do stuff rather than fight the computer. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
beware of the updates you install
"Neil Gould" writes:
Frank Stearns wrote: "Neil Gould" writes: snips Those programs are not for technical writing or publishing. Even Adobe keeps FrameMaker alive and well because it is the only surviving alternative to Ventura for that purpose. For my active clients, I only use FrameMaker because it has kept abreast of the rather significant changes to the publishing industry since the last update of Ventura. snips I just met with a client this morning whose tech documents are done in FM! IIRC, my first copy of FM was 3, prior to Adobe's acquisition of Frame, Inc. At that point, it was no match for VP technically, but its cross-platform abilities were a big plus. Then, Corel acquired VP and managed to screw it up for a few years, during which time Adobe improved FM's ability to handle type and color properly, among other things. Today, FM is the most viable app for technical documents, IMO, largely because Corel dropped the ball. Although some folks complain about FM's UI (it isn't anywhere near as flexible as VP's), it has not been a problem for me, and I appreciate that fact that it has remained "familiar" for decades. That's rather atypical for Adobe apps, which shuffle their UI with regularity. I used VP for a couple of client projects. Can't remember if it was Corel or not. I initially liked what I saw and was looking forward to using it -- until things started going wrong in small and large ways at every turn. Made me crazy as hell, and the usual issues with support. "Oh, yes, sorry; that is a known problem;" or, "don't know about that;" and the classic "Please reinstall" with the classic response, "I've done that 10 times, no change..." FM was typically very stable. I loved FM3 under Sunview on my Sparc station, but it was of limited capability compared to the needs of the current day. Eventually, I was forced over to windows for a number of business reasons. FM conquered with FM4, and the introduction of their fabulous Table Editor -- still from what I've seen the best thing out there for tables. Combine that with FM's very powerful numbering system, their book system, long-document capabilities, and now multiple delivery paths, and it is likely still a "best buy" -- assuming you need that kind of power. Frank Mobile Audio -- |
beware of the updates you install
"John Williamson" wrote in message ...
And the Windows world is full of stuff that "just works". I like this idea, it frees me up to actually do stuff rather than fight the computer. This is generally true. If a device doesn't have a driver, Windows will search for one (locally or the Web). It usually comes up with the right one (or a good one). Driver problems are usually related to the manufacturer's failure to update them. This gets customers Very Angry at having to abandon a product they like (qv, the HP see-through scanner) or having to buy a new one. A good example is the classic Palm T3 (and related PDAs). There /were/ updated drivers, but no way to install them easily, because simply plugging the interface cradle into a USB port didn't trigger a search for the correct driver. The trick was to press the sync button on the cradle, then -- during the 60 seconds or so Windows was trying to make contact -- have the Hardware Wizard install the driver. |
beware of the updates you install
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
acquisition... "William Sommerwerck" writes: I used it for a while about 15 years ago, in its first Windows incarnation. It had the most-poorly designed dialog boxes for any piece of software I have ever used. Not sure what you were seeing. The UI was fairly consistent among the various platforms, though because of the underlying dictates of the Windows UI resources sometimes things were a bit squirrely. They were simply lousy -- poor layout, poor of choice what a particular dialog box contained, etc. Whoever designed them apparently had no experience with or understanding of DTP. In general FM dialogs could get confusing because they are very dense -- lots of stuff you can do. While a little off-putting at first, once you got used to this you appreciate having so much power close at hand. I didn't. A dialog box should contain a closely related set of functions. Contrast to Interleaf (competitor of the day) when most things were 3-4 menu pulls down with few or no keyboard shortcuts, and lots of clicking through "single purpose" dialogs -- THAT was crazy-making if you wanted any speed with the UI. Neither Ventura nor PageMaker were like that. Word isn't like that. I hope it's gotten better. Yes and no; YMMV. While the new UIs since FM9 are more "contemporary," many of us who have used FM for 20+ years don't like the new UI dictates (I still use 10 year old FM7 for most of my daily doc needs, as do many folks). As with many applications these days, some UI designers think they know best and force you into something that's far less efficient. I'll take clarity over efficiency any day. It's unsettling how often UI folks don't actually use the product they're working on -- they just do what seems pretty with little understanding of the work flows. This is critical. No one should be allowed to design a product who does not use it. Last fall, at Adobe's invitation, I spent 90 minutes on the phone with the new UI guy for FM pleading with him to keep certain UI needs and standards in mind. Mostly, doc professionals were sick of "cute" and just wanted the damn UI to not get in their way. I think he got the message, and I was not the only one making the same complaints. We shall see what comes along... What is "cute"? |
beware of the updates you install
John Williamson wrote:
On 28/11/2013 14:59, dave wrote: Stuff not working under Linux A camera? A smart-card reader? did you lsusb them to get chipset information? There are several packages in the Ubuntu world for handling RAW files. But not, as far as I can tell, the ones generated by this particular camera. Fuji have recently changed their RAW file format. That's not really a driver problem so much as an application problem, to be honest. If you want a really awful example, though, check out the National Instruments PCI cards. National's Windows drivers pretty much work and they are well documented and the tech support people know about them. The Linux drivers... well, they sort of work. But they are so badly coded that when they don't work they don't actually say that they are not working. They'll fail to modload without giving any message, or they'll load but not find any hardware without giving any message. They only work with certain kernel versions, not with any 64-bit kernels or PAE kernels, but the manuals don't say anything about that. Nobody in tech support knows a damn thing about them, so you can pay by the minute on the tech support line to talk to someone who has no idea even what dmesg is let alone what the driver is supposed to be reporting. Now, mind you, this is an NI issue and not a Linux issue, per se. But I do encounter this a lot with companies who claim to support Linux but don't really. (Not that a lot of the same companies also fail to support their Windows stuff as well.) You do need to do a little digging, which is where Linux really shines; nobody offers you a solution upon receipt of payment. It's all for the love of the medium. The open source world is dripping wet with good karma. And the Windows world is full of stuff that "just works". I like this idea, it frees me up to actually do stuff rather than fight the computer. The nice thing about Linux is that you can look inside the box, so when it fails to work, you can fix it. The nice thing about Windows is that it usually just works. The problem is that when Windows systems fail to work, you're pretty much out of luck because it's just that way and your tools for real system-level debugging don't exist. Given my choice, I'll run NetBSD. But usually I don't have a choice because the application doesn't give me one. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
beware of the updates you install
On 11/28/2013 07:19 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 28/11/2013 14:59, dave wrote: Stuff not working under Linux A camera? A smart-card reader? did you lsusb them to get chipset information? There are several packages in the Ubuntu world for handling RAW files. But not, as far as I can tell, the ones generated by this particular camera. Fuji have recently changed their RAW file format. http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-a.../msg94052.html My Zoom R24 doesn't appear to be covered. You do need to do a little digging, which is where Linux really shines; nobody offers you a solution upon receipt of payment. It's all for the love of the medium. The open source world is dripping wet with good karma. And the Windows world is full of stuff that "just works". I like this idea, it frees me up to actually do stuff rather than fight the computer. http://www.camerahacker.com/Digital/..._example.shtml http://www.softpedia.com/reviews/lin...ew-49016.shtml |
beware of the updates you install
"William Sommerwerck" writes:
snips Not sure what you were seeing. The UI was fairly consistent among the various platforms, though because of the underlying dictates of the Windows UI resources sometimes things were a bit squirrely. They were simply lousy -- poor layout, poor of choice what a particular dialog box contained, etc. Whoever designed them apparently had no experience with or understanding of DTP. I'm curious; do you remember a specific example? Generally, things are related in an FM dialog; depends on how far down you want to drill. For example, most everyone knows what a "paragraph" is, but related to DTP a paragraph takes on many layers. Within the FM "paragraph designer" dialog, for example, live 6 tabs with some 50-60 parameters in total. At first glance, this might seem overwhelming. But start using it, and you appreciate the logical divisions and clarity, given the information density. But you also have to know enough about the product to see how this parameter set relates to other things you might be doing. Any complex app is like this; perhaps a real test is how well you can predict how something works you don't know based on other things that you already know. Protools looked really odd to me at first, but as I got to work through it, most of it seemed fairly well thought out and I've learned to appreciate how PT deals with high information density. But my initial impression was, "who designed this piece of excrement?" In general FM dialogs could get confusing because they are very dense -- lots of stuff you can do. While a little off-putting at first, once you got used to this you appreciate having so much power close at hand. I didn't. A dialog box should contain a closely related set of functions. See above. Contrast to Interleaf (competitor of the day) when most things were 3-4 menu pulls down with few or no keyboard shortcuts, and lots of clicking through "single purpose" dialogs -- THAT was crazy-making if you wanted any speed with the UI. Neither Ventura nor PageMaker were like that. Word isn't like that. And these three products are for different groups of users. The one that's closest to FM is probably VP. PageMaker (distant weak cousin of In Design) is more for display and design work, not so much for long documents. Each is great for what they do. For example, I would never suggest that someone writing a 2-4 page business letter fire up FM unless they really know it well. By all means, use Word. Use PM for newsletters. But for that kind of work, Word will likely break; FM will do it but you're using a complicated, big machine to swat a fly. At the same time, I would never suggest that the doc set for a Boeing 747 be put together with Word, PM, or even Ventura. Those 80,000 (or so) pages are best handled by FM or something like it. (My personal record with FM was a 9,000 page doc set, hw and sw, in some 21 volumes, for an high-speed I/O computer. FM easily handled this. As an aside, it was simple to create a master TOC and master index.) I hope it's gotten better. Yes and no; YMMV. While the new UIs since FM9 are more "contemporary," many of us who have used FM for 20+ years don't like the new UI dictates (I still use 10 year old FM7 for most of my daily doc needs, as do many folks). As with many applications these days, some UI designers think they know best and force you into something that's far less efficient. I'll take clarity over efficiency any day. Again, depends on your goals and needs. And are we talking surface clarity or deep clarity? Sometimes the two are in conflict. If a superficial level of "clarity" reduces an expert user's speed by even 10%, I'd probably not want to change the UI. At 50% or more, leave the UI alone, period. Find another product for the user who wants a "simpler" UI. A better solution might be a configurable UI, with higher-level UI "personality" settings for expert or novice. (There is a subset of that in FM now and has been for a while, but it's not called that directly and it really only scratches the surface of the concept.) It's unsettling how often UI folks don't actually use the product they're working on -- they just do what seems pretty with little understanding of the work flows. This is critical. No one should be allowed to design a product who does not use it. Yup. Absolutely. But that's not the way applications development works in too many cases, unfortunately. Last fall, at Adobe's invitation, I spent 90 minutes on the phone with the new UI guy for FM pleading with him to keep certain UI needs and standards in mind. Mostly, doc professionals were sick of "cute" and just wanted the damn UI to not get in their way. I think he got the message, and I was not the only one making the same complaints. We shall see what comes along... What is "cute"? As one example, how about a small, drop shadowed, serifed font for dialog title bars, stippled gray on a dark gray title bar background? I know that many of the graphics folks get a tingle of excitement when they see such a thing, but for the rest of us, it's an eye-aching outrage. Worse, because it's an app-specific windowing system, you can't get to it to change it to something rational. At least within Windows there are adjustments for such things. Or, how about "pods" and "docks" that *might* lend clarity at first, but then severely bog down the experienced user. (Fortunately, the more recent versions of FM allow you to disable such "cute clutter" and get directly to where you want to go, without "hand-holding" that becomes "hand-cuffed holding". I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you; my main abstract point is not to force one UI design on all different levels of users doing different kinds of work. And I'm in complete agreement when the UI of a complex app is seemingly a random mess. Ugh. For the most part, though, FM is not in that camp. Frank Mobile Audio -- |
beware of the updates you install
"William Sommerwerck" writes:
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message nacquisition... I used VP for a couple of client projects. Can't remember if it was Corel or not. I initially liked what I saw and was looking forward to using it -- until things started going wrong in small and large ways at every turn. Made me crazy as hell, and the usual issues with support. "Oh, yes, sorry; that is a known problem;" or, "don't know about that;" and the classic "Please reinstall" with the classic response, "I've done that 10 times, no change..." Oddly, I never had problems -- except for figuring out column balance. You probably had a Corel version. Corel added needed features, but also eliminated the modular document format, which is unbelievable. That's probably the case -- I don't recall seeing a "modular doc format" item. From the sound of it, perhaps this was something like FM's "book" feature". And it would be the height of stupidity were FM ever to delete the book system. Fortunately, they've only made it better. I worked around most of the VP bugs, but the killer was the placement of tables and figures. Settings for "place here" or "float to next page" did not work. At random, those items wound up at the end of the file, many pages away, sometimes in random order. Maddening. Frank Mobile Audio -- |
beware of the updates you install
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
... "William Sommerwerck" writes: You probably had a Corel version. Corel added needed features, but also eliminated the modular document format, which is unbelievable. That's probably the case -- I don't recall seeing a "modular doc format" item. There was no such "item". The earlier versions of Ventura kept /everything/ in separate files -- text, graphics, file locations, style sheets, etc. And all the files were plain-text readable! (Thank you, Xerox!) One of the nice things about this is that you could change the document's style just by substituting a different style sheet -- a particularly useful feature if you wanted to publish both paper and Web documents. Unfortunately, Corel started wadding up everything into a single file. This meant you had to create completely separate documents (rather than just style sheets). And heaven help you if the file became corrupted -- you could lose everything. From the sound of it, perhaps this was something like FM's "book" feature". It isn't. In Ventura, a book is a collection of chapters. I worked around most of the VP bugs, but the killer was the placement of tables and figures. Settings for "place here" or "float to next page" did not work. At random, those items wound up at the end of the file, many pages away, sometimes in random order. Maddening. It sounds as if you had the first Corel edition, v5. It had disastrous bugs, including the one you describe. Corel had to issue a corrected version. Didn't they tell you? |
beware of the updates you install
On 11/28/2013 2:09 PM, dave wrote:
On 11/28/2013 12:28 AM, Trevor wrote: "dave" wrote in message m... I don't fear Windows, I refuse to pay for an operating system, Hard to get a laptop these days without Windows already included whether you use it or not. Hard but not impossible, however I have no use for another notebook. The fact that manufacturers include it free says something. But hey if you also refuse to pay for the hardware, your problems are solved! :-) But hey are you suggesting I'm a thief? The Kernel has thousands of drivers already installed. And more thousands not installed. Just as with Windows. Please name a consumer device (other than Apple) that you would like to use with Linux that had a driver issue. I have found Linux to be way more plug-and-play than Windows, try: https://www.thinkpenguin.com/catalog...rs-gnu-linux-2 |
beware of the updates you install
On 11/28/2013 2:52 AM, conklin wrote:
"Jason" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 04:43:24 -0500 "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in article KrCdnXhYy- Les Cargill wrote: I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up the registry. If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't have problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use the program's built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder of the registry entries and leftover folders. Prior to this, I edited the registry by hand. The pro version is supposed to clean ot trash left from sloppy uninstalls. http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html I endorse Revo, too. You have to be a little careful about its registry cleanup if you choose the more "aggressive" post-uninstall scanning options; it can propose to delete stuff that shouldn't be. For instance, I have an Adobe CC subscription and created a CC folder. If I uninstall an app and let Revo do it's aggressive thing, it'll try to zap entries to other CC apps. It does warn you that the folder contains other apps, but picking your way through all the possibilities is hopeless. On a simpler note, the new IE update (11) is not recognized by the server at work, which seems to call it a non-standard browser. It also does not work well with dlink cameras. I have had to resort to using a IE 8 version running on XP to make the softwre work where I want it too. IE 11 has problems with other programs too. Java runtime seems to be banned by IE11. You can download it, and it IE still won't recognize it. This is a dlink problem. They claim the camera is working with apple, but doesn't work on a Mac. |
beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message ... On 11/28/2013 12:28 AM, Trevor wrote: "dave" wrote in message m... I don't fear Windows, I refuse to pay for an operating system, Hard to get a laptop these days without Windows already included whether you use it or not. Hard but not impossible, however I have no use for another notebook. The fact that manufacturers include it free says something. It's definitely NOT free, it's included in the price you pay. That they *choose* to pay Microsoft says something too. But hey if you also refuse to pay for the hardware, your problems are solved! :-) But hey are you suggesting I'm a thief? Nope, just that you don't need a free operating system if you don't buy a computer. Trevor. |
beware of the updates you install
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... On 28/11/2013 13:09, dave wrote: On 11/28/2013 12:28 AM, Trevor wrote: "dave" wrote in message The Kernel has thousands of drivers already installed. And more thousands not installed. Just as with Windows. Please name a consumer device (other than Apple) that you would like to use with Linux that had a driver issue. I have found Linux to be way more plug-and-play than Windows, You seem to have ignored the list I posted earlier..... Wouldn't suit his agenda. He thinks HIS requirements are all there is. Trevor. |
beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message m... You do need to do a little digging, which is where Linux really shines; nobody offers you a solution upon receipt of payment. So you criticise Windows for needing support, but praise Linux for the same reason? The on-line user base for both OS is equally helpful IME. Trevor. |
beware of the updates you install
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... That's not really a driver problem so much as an application problem, to be honest. Exactly, FAR more applications for Windows. If you want a really awful example, though, check out the National Instruments PCI cards. National's Windows drivers pretty much work and they are well documented and the tech support people know about them. The Linux drivers... well, they sort of work. But they are so badly coded that when they don't work they don't actually say that they are not working. They'll fail to modload without giving any message, or they'll load but not find any hardware without giving any message. They only work with certain kernel versions, not with any 64-bit kernels or PAE kernels, but the manuals don't say anything about that. Nobody in tech support knows a damn thing about them, so you can pay by the minute on the tech support line to talk to someone who has no idea even what dmesg is let alone what the driver is supposed to be reporting. Now, mind you, this is an NI issue and not a Linux issue, per se. Nope, it's what I have been saying all along, MANY vendors do not feel there are enough Linux users to spend money on supporting them with drivers, software, bug fixes, or tech support. That's the way the world is, you put you money where it does the most good. But I do encounter this a lot with companies who claim to support Linux but don't really. (Not that a lot of the same companies also fail to support their Windows stuff as well.) True, but anyone who argues there is *more* support for Linux is a liar. Given my choice, I'll run NetBSD. But usually I don't have a choice because the application doesn't give me one. Exactly! Trevor. |
beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message ... http://www.camerahacker.com/Digital/..._example.shtml http://www.softpedia.com/reviews/lin...ew-49016.shtml Color me unimpressed with all Linux photo apps compared to PS/Lightroom. Most Linux apps are good value for money though :-) Trevor. |
beware of the updates you install
On 11/28/2013 07:17 PM, Trevor wrote:
"dave" wrote in message m... You do need to do a little digging, which is where Linux really shines; nobody offers you a solution upon receipt of payment. So you criticise Windows for needing support, but praise Linux for the same reason? The on-line user base for both OS is equally helpful IME. Trevor. Not at all. I criticize Windows for charging money for what others give for free. BTW: The Windows bundled with a new consumer PC is usually paid for by the adware included with the OS bundle. PC makers include Windows because Microsoft used monopolistic methods to crush any competition. I'd be fine if they charged a reasonable fee, but over $200 is excessive in light of what others charge for theirs, which I believe is zero. |
beware of the updates you install
Frank Stearns wrote:
"Neil Gould" writes: (snips) IIRC, my first copy of FM was 3, prior to Adobe's acquisition of Frame, Inc. At that point, it was no match for VP technically, but its cross-platform abilities were a big plus. Then, Corel acquired VP and managed to screw it up for a few years, during which time Adobe improved FM's ability to handle type and color properly, among other things. Today, FM is the most viable app for technical documents, IMO, largely because Corel dropped the ball. Although some folks complain about FM's UI (it isn't anywhere near as flexible as VP's), it has not been a problem for me, and I appreciate that fact that it has remained "familiar" for decades. That's rather atypical for Adobe apps, which shuffle their UI with regularity. I used VP for a couple of client projects. Can't remember if it was Corel or not. I initially liked what I saw and was looking forward to using it -- until things started going wrong in small and large ways at every turn. Made me crazy as hell, and the usual issues with support. "Oh, yes, sorry; that is a known problem;" or, "don't know about that;" and the classic "Please reinstall" with the classic response, "I've done that 10 times, no change..." Sounds like Corel's VP5 thru 7... they were major screw-ups. I've never had to reinstall xerox's VP 1.1 thru 4.1, nor Corel's VP8+. FM conquered with FM4, and the introduction of their fabulous Table Editor -- still from what I've seen the best thing out there for tables. Both VP and FM handle tables exceptionally well, which is one reason that QuirkXPress, InDesign and other apps are not well suited for tech docs. It isn't uncommon to have tables that run 20+ multi-column pages, and most apps just can't do that. Other "must haves" include equations as typographic text, mulitple cross references, and indexes, which both FM and VP do well. Combine that with FM's very powerful numbering system, their book system, long-document capabilities, and now multiple delivery paths, and it is likely still a "best buy" -- assuming you need that kind of power. VP is also strong in long-document and multi-chapter functionality. I can't say that there is much of a difference in capability between those two apps in that regard. If by "mulitple delivery paths" you are referring to FM's "conditional text" capabilities, I agree, but that isn't new, FM4 had that! For me, one of the best features of FM is its MIF format. I've built 500 page technical products catalogs completely by programs written to parse databases and create the pages without intervention using that feature. -- best regards, Neil |
beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message m... On 11/28/2013 07:17 PM, Trevor wrote: "dave" wrote in message m... You do need to do a little digging, which is where Linux really shines; nobody offers you a solution upon receipt of payment. So you criticise Windows for needing support, but praise Linux for the same reason? The on-line user base for both OS is equally helpful IME. Not at all. I criticize Windows for charging money for what others give for free. Fair enough since you obviously work for nothing and therfore can't possibly pay for an OS right? BTW: The Windows bundled with a new consumer PC is usually paid for by the adware included with the OS bundle. Rubbish, Micosoft CHARGES them/the buyer for the OS. Scumware is just a way the hardware manufacturer makes a bit more profit, and most people remove it anyway. PC makers include Windows because Microsoft used monopolistic methods to crush any competition. What monopoly, YOU said Linux is a viable competitor didn't you? I believe Apple also thinks they are :-) I'd be fine if they charged a reasonable fee, but over $200 is excessive in light of what others charge for theirs, which I believe is zero. Since you can buy a laptop with Windows for $300, are you really supid enough to think you are paying $200 of that for Windows, and also stupid enough to suggest that is already paid for by scumware in the very same post! So if it's paid for by scumware, you are getting it for free and should be happy! :-) Trevor. |
beware of the updates you install
PC makers include Windows because Microsoft used monopolistic
methods to crush any competition. This was true in the days of MS-DOS, when Microsoft obliged computer makers to put DOS on all their machines, if they wanted a license. Microsoft took a lot of flak for that, and it eventually ended. I don't believe it occurs with Windows. I'd be fine if they charged a reasonable fee, but over $200 is excessive in light of what others charge for theirs, which I believe is zero. It depends on what you're getting. In theory, the product you pay most for should give you the best quality, the rationale being that the manufacturer will continually plow its profits into improving its product. Unfortunately, Microsoft has demonstrated its inability (or unwillingness) to produce an OS that's stable and bug-free. The reason Windows 7 was an improvement over its predecessors is that Microsoft finally got wise and hired some guy (I forget his name) who kicked butt. I just read that Apple appears to be falling down on the -- uh -- job, and its current OS release has many problems. Steve Jobs supposedly admired Edwin Land, who said "One or two people can be creative. A committee cannot." Great products (and Land certainly had his share) are usually the result of a single, focused point of view. When he was working on the SX-70, many people within the company said it wouldn't work. Land didn't fire them -- but he kept away from them. A similar problem exists with Linux -- there is no central authority dictating what Linux should "look like" or how it should behave. This would appear to make Linux susceptible to the same problem as most operating systems -- creeping featuritis. In case you're wondering... I hate Apple and I hate Microsoft. Both companies stink, the latter because its products rarely come up to the quality level you expect, and the former because it lies, lies, lies. I'm writing this on a computer running Windows 7 Professional 64. Though it might surprise you, the system is stable and rarely locks up or has Weird Problems. On the other hand, a friend of mine who used a Macintosh told me (about seven years ago) that the OS "collapsed" and had to be reinstalled. It happens. |
beware of the updates you install
On 30/11/2013 12:37, William Sommerwerck wrote:
PC makers include Windows because Microsoft used monopolistic methods to crush any competition. This was true in the days of MS-DOS, when Microsoft obliged computer makers to put DOS on all their machines, if they wanted a license. Microsoft took a lot of flak for that, and it eventually ended. I don't believe it occurs with Windows. From what I've read elsewhere, they no longer force Windows on manufacturers officially, but if they don't buy licences for each machine they build, then they are put on a much less favourable tariff than if they do. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
beware of the updates you install
On 11/30/2013 04:37 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
PC makers include Windows because Microsoft used monopolistic methods to crush any competition. This was true in the days of MS-DOS, when Microsoft obliged computer makers to put DOS on all their machines, if they wanted a license. Microsoft took a lot of flak for that, and it eventually ended. I don't believe it occurs with Windows. I'd be fine if they charged a reasonable fee, but over $200 is excessive in light of what others charge for theirs, which I believe is zero. It depends on what you're getting. In theory, the product you pay most for should give you the best quality, the rationale being that the manufacturer will continually plow its profits into improving its product. Unfortunately, Microsoft has demonstrated its inability (or unwillingness) to produce an OS that's stable and bug-free. The reason Windows 7 was an improvement over its predecessors is that Microsoft finally got wise and hired some guy (I forget his name) who kicked butt. I just read that Apple appears to be falling down on the -- uh -- job, and its current OS release has many problems. Steve Jobs supposedly admired Edwin Land, who said "One or two people can be creative. A committee cannot." Great products (and Land certainly had his share) are usually the result of a single, focused point of view. When he was working on the SX-70, many people within the company said it wouldn't work. Land didn't fire them -- but he kept away from them. A similar problem exists with Linux -- there is no central authority dictating what Linux should "look like" or how it should behave. This would appear to make Linux susceptible to the same problem as most operating systems -- creeping featuritis. In case you're wondering... I hate Apple and I hate Microsoft. Both companies stink, the latter because its products rarely come up to the quality level you expect, and the former because it lies, lies, lies. I'm writing this on a computer running Windows 7 Professional 64. Though it might surprise you, the system is stable and rarely locks up or has Weird Problems. On the other hand, a friend of mine who used a Macintosh told me (about seven years ago) that the OS "collapsed" and had to be reinstalled. It happens. I don't hate either company; I even own an iPod touch. Like I said previously when my XP netbook is no longer supported I will get a Win 7 premium used desktop from an authorized refurbisher for under $100, OS inclusive. I am on an old gamer machine right now, an ASUS P4 with liquid cooled 3 GHz Intel processors. |
beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message
m... I am on an old gamer machine right now, an ASUS P4 with liquid cooled 3 GHz Intel processors. My previous computer was a P4T. Very nice. |
beware of the updates you install
dave wrote: On 11/26/2013 01:37 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: dave wrote: On 11/25/2013 04:18 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: dave wrote: What about Android, kind sir?. Are you really that stupid? Should we start calling you 'Always Wrong V2.0'? The statistics for ALL VERSIONS were barely over 10%. I know you're a union drone, and had the mandatory IBEW lobotomy, but learn to read and think. YOu aren't clever, and you can't even troll past the kindergarten level. I am very stupid. I have autism and never finished high school. There. Do you feel better now, Mr. Friendly? Yawn. Do you feel better now for making fun of the disabled? Are you always like this? Yes. You've shown your ass several times, so it's no holds barred. I use Window. I use Linux. I just bought a second Android tablet. The first was defective, and died after a few weeks. I've used operating systems you've never seen or heard of. The first was over 30 years ago. The company that created that OS and built the hardware was out of business. We had $60,000 tied up in the two systems, so I fixed both hardware and software problems for the next three years. They bought new computers after I quit. How many 8" single sided floppy disk drives have you repaired or replaced? -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
beware of the updates you install
"Trevor" wrote in message ...
"dave" wrote in message ... support. Sure, Windows solutions are out there, but they involve passwords and key codes and expiration dates and all manner of distrust and I don't need any more of that. I do this for fun. Rubbish, the same user groups support is available for Windows as for Linux. I've used Windows since 3.0 and never once contacted Microsoft, but I do appreciate their online knowledgebase. Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. |
beware of the updates you install
On 12/01/2013 03:15 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
dave wrote: On 11/26/2013 01:37 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: dave wrote: On 11/25/2013 04:18 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Are you always like this? Yes. You've shown your ass several times, so it's no holds barred. I use Window. I use Linux. I just bought a second Android tablet. The first was defective, and died after a few weeks. I've used operating systems you've never seen or heard of. The first was over 30 years ago. The company that created that OS and built the hardware was out of business. We had $60,000 tied up in the two systems, so I fixed both hardware and software problems for the next three years. They bought new computers after I quit. How many 8" single sided floppy disk drives have you repaired or replaced? I worked out of Blue Cross in Phoenix. We had hard disk drives the size of washing machines, IBM punch cards (along with the room full of ladies to keypunch them). 2 inch magnetic tape was another favored portable mode of data transportation. As I recall the 8" [truly] floppy was still in the lab stage at that point. It took two stories of equipment to print a blue lock box full of medical bills. I was curious about the crude language, do you have anger issues? |
beware of the updates you install
On 12/02/2013 04:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Trevor" wrote in message ... "dave" wrote in message ... support. Sure, Windows solutions are out there, but they involve passwords and key codes and expiration dates and all manner of distrust and I don't need any more of that. I do this for fun. Rubbish, the same user groups support is available for Windows as for Linux. I've used Windows since 3.0 and never once contacted Microsoft, but I do appreciate their online knowledgebase. Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. Who uses Google? Why? Try duckduckgo.com |
beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message
m... On 12/02/2013 04:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. Who uses Google? Why? Try duckduckgo.com I just tried it with my recent printer problem. It was even worse than Google. |
beware of the updates you install
On 12/02/2013 05:17 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"dave" wrote in message m... On 12/02/2013 04:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. Who uses Google? Why? Try duckduckgo.com I just tried it with my recent printer problem. It was even worse than Google. I was speaking "in general". My Linux uses the same printer system as Apple, CUPS. I have never had to fish for a printer driver, just agree with the software. duckduckgo doesn't save your browsing history or push certain names. |
beware of the updates you install
"dave" wrote in message
... On 12/02/2013 05:17 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: "dave" wrote in message m... On 12/02/2013 04:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. Who uses Google? Why? Try duckduckgo.com I just tried it with my recent printer problem. It was even worse than Google. I was speaking "in general". My Linux uses the same printer system as Apple, CUPS. I have never had to fish for a printer driver, just agree with the software. Who's ever had to fish for HP printer drivers? "They're everywhere, they're everywhere." My problem was not with the printer driver, anyhow. (I did find a question from a decade ago about exactly my problem. Unfortunately, no one came up with a resolution.) duckduckgo doesn't save your browsing history or push certain names. Then what's that sponsored link I see at the top? |
beware of the updates you install
On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 05:27:56 -0800, dave wrote:
On 12/02/2013 05:17 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: "dave" wrote in message m... On 12/02/2013 04:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. Who uses Google? Why? Try duckduckgo.com I just tried it with my recent printer problem. It was even worse than Google. I was speaking "in general". My Linux uses the same printer system as Apple, CUPS. I have never had to fish for a printer driver, just agree with the software. duckduckgo doesn't save your browsing history or push certain names. Man, this is developing into an "advocacy" ****ing contest. Leave him to his Windows or Mac, you are only poking a bear. I, myself, use PCLinuxOS, have since 2008. Before that, OS/2, never Windows. You're ****ing in the wind with this guy. |
beware of the updates you install
On 12/02/2013 05:38 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"dave" wrote in message ... On 12/02/2013 05:17 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: "dave" wrote in message m... On 12/02/2013 04:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. Who uses Google? Why? Try duckduckgo.com I just tried it with my recent printer problem. It was even worse than Google. I was speaking "in general". My Linux uses the same printer system as Apple, CUPS. I have never had to fish for a printer driver, just agree with the software. Who's ever had to fish for HP printer drivers? "They're everywhere, they're everywhere." My problem was not with the printer driver, anyhow. (I did find a question from a decade ago about exactly my problem. Unfortunately, no one came up with a resolution.) duckduckgo doesn't save your browsing history or push certain names. Then what's that sponsored link I see at the top? That's a "sponsored link". That pays for the 2 story house DDG calls headquarters. |
beware of the updates you install
On 12/02/2013 08:04 AM, sctvguy1 wrote:
On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 05:27:56 -0800, dave wrote: On 12/02/2013 05:17 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: "dave" wrote in message m... On 12/02/2013 04:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: Agreed. You can almost find an answer with a Google search. However, the "official" help from Microsoft in these groups is sometimes terrible, with the helper offering trivial solutions that the questioner has almost always tried. Who uses Google? Why? Try duckduckgo.com I just tried it with my recent printer problem. It was even worse than Google. I was speaking "in general". My Linux uses the same printer system as Apple, CUPS. I have never had to fish for a printer driver, just agree with the software. duckduckgo doesn't save your browsing history or push certain names. Man, this is developing into an "advocacy" ****ing contest. Leave him to his Windows or Mac, you are only poking a bear. I, myself, use PCLinuxOS, have since 2008. Before that, OS/2, never Windows. You're ****ing in the wind with this guy. clear |
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