|
USB chargers, anyone ?
Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB
charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? I'm not particularly concerned at this, because I am only interested in the 5 volts, so cut the other two wires off. There is one thing that slightly concerns me, though. A couple of months back, I had a similar need, and purchased one of the slightly larger ones that you see on eBay - like a small wall-wart. It went into service powering an ethernet wireless bridge dongle to allow my sat box to connect to the network. It's not a feature that I use often, so I hadn't noticed that it was no longer working, and you can't easily see the supply, as it is plugged into an extender block fixed to the back of the TV. When I came to plug in my new supply to the same extension block, I noticed that the other one looked 'skewed' in the socket, and the LED wasn't on. When I pulled it out, it was obvious that it had 'exploded' internally, blowing the lid half off. When I took it apart, it had indeed had a major failure, with a big silvery blast mark where the line power came in via a small resistor. When I looked at the USB connector on the bottom of this one, pins 1 and 4 were the 5v output and gnd, but pins 2 and 3 were joined together, and had a couple of resistors hooked to them, and disappearing into the circuitry. So why is this ? Do they perhaps make 'alternate' use of these pins for flagging when charging is complete or something ? Even if they did, I can't see that it would be an issue to have the supply running continuously. I have a similar one for my iPod that I leave plugged in all the time, and 90% of the time, it's just a dangling USB lead so no load at all. Was I just unlucky that a crappily built Chinese switcher failed on me in just a couple of months, or did it get upset because it was not being used for its intended purpose, leaving pins 2 and 3 always open ? I just don't want the same thing happening again to my new one ... Arfa |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Does everyone out there think Wikipedia is a pile of lies and useless
twaddle? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb Scroll down to the Physical Appearance section. VBUS is supposed to be loaded with no more than 0.5 amperes (0.9 for USB 3.0). What happens if you try to pull more than that (presumably) depends on the design of the power supply feeding pins 1 and 4. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Perhaps I should have read a bit further. This is probably what you're
looking for... Charging ports and accessory charging adapters The USB Battery Charging Specification of 2007 defines new types of USB ports, e.g., charging ports.[44] As compared to standard downstream ports, where a portable device can only draw more than 100 mA current after digital negotiation with the host or hub, charging ports can supply currents above 0.5 A without digital negotiation. A charging port supplies up to 500 mA at 5 V, up to the rated current at 3.6 V or more, and drop its output voltage if the portable device attempts to draw more than the rated current. The charger port may shut down if the load is too high. Charging ports exist in two flavors: charging downstream ports (CDP), supporting data transfers as well, and dedicated charging ports (DCP), without data support. A portable device can recognize the type of USB port from the way the D+ and D- pins are connected. For example, on a dedicated charging port, the D+ and D- pins are shorted. With charging downstream ports, current passing through the thin ground wire may interfere with high-speed data signals. Therefore, current draw may not exceed 900 mA during high-speed data transfer. A dedicated charge port may have a rated current between 0.5 and 1.5 A. There is no upper limit for the rated current of a charging downstream port, as long as the connector can handle the current (standard USB 2.0 A-connectors are rated at 1.5 A). Before the battery charging specification was defined, there was no standardized way for the portable device to inquire how much current was available. For example, Apple's iPod and iPhone chargers indicate the available current by voltages on the D- and D+ lines. When D+ = D- = 2V, the device may pull up to 500 mA. When D+ = 2.0 V and D- = 2.8 V, the device may pull up to 1000 mA of current.[45] Dedicated charging ports can be found on USB power adapters that convert utility power or another power source - e.g., a car's electrical system - to run attached devices and battery packs. On a host (such as a laptop computer) with both standard and charging USB ports, the charging ports should be labeled as such.[44] To support simultaneous charge and sync, even if the communication port doesn't support charging a demanding device, so called accessory charging adapters are introduced, where a charging port and a communication port can be combined into a single port. The Battery Charging Specification 1.2 of 2010 [12] makes clear, that there are safety limits to the rated current at 5 A coming from USB 2.0. On the other hand several changes are made and limits are increasing including allowing 1.5 A on charging ports for unconfigured devices, allowing high speed communication while having a current up to 1.5 A and allowing a maximum current of 5 A. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:34:33 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? AFAIK, in order to pull more than 100 mA from a USB port, a device is supposed to do a digital dance with the host to request the higher capacity, up to 500 mA. There may be (read: probably are) dedicated charging ports that will cheerfully source 500 mA (or more?) to a "dumb" device without requiring the dialog. -- Rich Webb Norfolk, VA |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Arfa Daily wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? I'm not particularly concerned at this, because I am only interested in the 5 volts, so cut the other two wires off. There is one thing that slightly concerns me, though. A couple of months back, I had a similar need, and purchased one of the slightly larger ones that you see on eBay - like a small wall-wart. It went into service powering an ethernet wireless bridge dongle to allow my sat box to connect to the network. It's not a feature that I use often, so I hadn't noticed that it was no longer working, and you can't easily see the supply, as it is plugged into an extender block fixed to the back of the TV. When I came to plug in my new supply to the same extension block, I noticed that the other one looked 'skewed' in the socket, and the LED wasn't on. When I pulled it out, it was obvious that it had 'exploded' internally, blowing the lid half off. When I took it apart, it had indeed had a major failure, with a big silvery blast mark where the line power came in via a small resistor. When I looked at the USB connector on the bottom of this one, pins 1 and 4 were the 5v output and gnd, but pins 2 and 3 were joined together, and had a couple of resistors hooked to them, and disappearing into the circuitry. So why is this ? Do they perhaps make 'alternate' use of these pins for flagging when charging is complete or something ? Even if they did, I can't see that it would be an issue to have the supply running continuously. I have a similar one for my iPod that I leave plugged in all the time, and 90% of the time, it's just a dangling USB lead so no load at all. Was I just unlucky that a crappily built Chinese switcher failed on me in just a couple of months, or did it get upset because it was not being used for its intended purpose, leaving pins 2 and 3 always open ? I just don't want the same thing happening again to my new one ... Check out this page for the resistors that are needed to turn on most USB sources. http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb2.shtml |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Rich Webb wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:34:33 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? AFAIK, in order to pull more than 100 mA from a USB port, a device is supposed to do a digital dance with the host to request the higher capacity, up to 500 mA. There may be (read: probably are) dedicated charging ports that will cheerfully source 500 mA (or more?) to a "dumb" device without requiring the dialog. Isn't it sad all this garbage is needed to send 5 volts down a cable? |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Cydrome Leader wrote: Rich Webb wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:34:33 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? AFAIK, in order to pull more than 100 mA from a USB port, a device is supposed to do a digital dance with the host to request the higher capacity, up to 500 mA. There may be (read: probably are) dedicated charging ports that will cheerfully source 500 mA (or more?) to a "dumb" device without requiring the dialog. Isn't it sad all this garbage is needed to send 5 volts down a cable? Needing three resistors is sad? |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: Rich Webb wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:34:33 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? AFAIK, in order to pull more than 100 mA from a USB port, a device is supposed to do a digital dance with the host to request the higher capacity, up to 500 mA. There may be (read: probably are) dedicated charging ports that will cheerfully source 500 mA (or more?) to a "dumb" device without requiring the dialog. Isn't it sad all this garbage is needed to send 5 volts down a cable? Needing three resistors is sad? yeah, it is. USB is not like ethernet where adding power happened later on and there is a chance to do weird stuff like plug two PoE switches into each other with a patch cable. USB doesn't support "illegal" scenarios like this due to the connectors, so any extra signalling is just bull**** to lockout devices or make you get stuff you should not need. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Isn't it sad all this garbage is needed to send 5 volts down a cable?
I've seen the USB 2.0 specs, and they're beyond unbelievable. You'd think what appears to be a simple interface would take only ten pages or so to define, but it takes 10 or 20 times that. USB might be "over-defined", but at least it works. I can't think of a USB product I've owned that didn't work correctly. From my point of view, this is not an accident. Somebody did a lot of thinking to make sure there weren't any "gotchas" in the system specification. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Cydrome Leader wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: Cydrome Leader wrote: Rich Webb wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:34:33 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? AFAIK, in order to pull more than 100 mA from a USB port, a device is supposed to do a digital dance with the host to request the higher capacity, up to 500 mA. There may be (read: probably are) dedicated charging ports that will cheerfully source 500 mA (or more?) to a "dumb" device without requiring the dialog. Isn't it sad all this garbage is needed to send 5 volts down a cable? Needing three resistors is sad? yeah, it is. USB is not like ethernet where adding power happened later on and there is a chance to do weird stuff like plug two PoE switches into each other with a patch cable. USB doesn't support "illegal" scenarios like this due to the connectors, so any extra signalling is just bull**** to lockout devices or make you get stuff you should not need. A couple cents worth of resistors to turn on the port is a simple and sensible way to protect the port. It was designed that way, not added at a later date. Look at the data sheets for some of the hub ICs. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... Perhaps I should have read a bit further. This is probably what you're looking for... Charging ports and accessory charging adapters The USB Battery Charging Specification of 2007 defines new types of USB ports, e.g., charging ports.[44] As compared to standard downstream ports, where a portable device can only draw more than 100 mA current after digital negotiation with the host or hub, charging ports can supply currents above 0.5 A without digital negotiation. A charging port supplies up to 500 mA at 5 V, up to the rated current at 3.6 V or more, and drop its output voltage if the portable device attempts to draw more than the rated current. The charger port may shut down if the load is too high. Charging ports exist in two flavors: charging downstream ports (CDP), supporting data transfers as well, and dedicated charging ports (DCP), without data support. A portable device can recognize the type of USB port from the way the D+ and D- pins are connected. For example, on a dedicated charging port, the D+ and D- pins are shorted. With charging downstream ports, current passing through the thin ground wire may interfere with high-speed data signals. Therefore, current draw may not exceed 900 mA during high-speed data transfer. A dedicated charge port may have a rated current between 0.5 and 1.5 A. There is no upper limit for the rated current of a charging downstream port, as long as the connector can handle the current (standard USB 2.0 A-connectors are rated at 1.5 A). Before the battery charging specification was defined, there was no standardized way for the portable device to inquire how much current was available. For example, Apple's iPod and iPhone chargers indicate the available current by voltages on the D- and D+ lines. When D+ = D- = 2V, the device may pull up to 500 mA. When D+ = 2.0 V and D- = 2.8 V, the device may pull up to 1000 mA of current.[45] Dedicated charging ports can be found on USB power adapters that convert utility power or another power source - e.g., a car's electrical system - to run attached devices and battery packs. On a host (such as a laptop computer) with both standard and charging USB ports, the charging ports should be labeled as such.[44] To support simultaneous charge and sync, even if the communication port doesn't support charging a demanding device, so called accessory charging adapters are introduced, where a charging port and a communication port can be combined into a single port. The Battery Charging Specification 1.2 of 2010 [12] makes clear, that there are safety limits to the rated current at 5 A coming from USB 2.0. On the other hand several changes are made and limits are increasing including allowing 1.5 A on charging ports for unconfigured devices, allowing high speed communication while having a current up to 1.5 A and allowing a maximum current of 5 A. Thanks for that William On the face of it, then, it would seem that a voltage on the data pins is used to inform the USB device how much current it can take, which in the case of the 'port' being on a 1 amp charger, would be the full spec whack of 1000mA. Since posting this, I had a closer look at the blown PSU, and the two resistors form a potential divider across the 5v rail, so that would tie in nicely. At least I know now that the extra wires are for the benefit of the device hanging on the charger, and not to inform the charger about anything, so I guess that confirms that I was just unlucky with the supply that blew. Arfa |
USB chargers, anyone ?
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Arfa Daily wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? I'm not particularly concerned at this, because I am only interested in the 5 volts, so cut the other two wires off. There is one thing that slightly concerns me, though. A couple of months back, I had a similar need, and purchased one of the slightly larger ones that you see on eBay - like a small wall-wart. It went into service powering an ethernet wireless bridge dongle to allow my sat box to connect to the network. It's not a feature that I use often, so I hadn't noticed that it was no longer working, and you can't easily see the supply, as it is plugged into an extender block fixed to the back of the TV. When I came to plug in my new supply to the same extension block, I noticed that the other one looked 'skewed' in the socket, and the LED wasn't on. When I pulled it out, it was obvious that it had 'exploded' internally, blowing the lid half off. When I took it apart, it had indeed had a major failure, with a big silvery blast mark where the line power came in via a small resistor. When I looked at the USB connector on the bottom of this one, pins 1 and 4 were the 5v output and gnd, but pins 2 and 3 were joined together, and had a couple of resistors hooked to them, and disappearing into the circuitry. So why is this ? Do they perhaps make 'alternate' use of these pins for flagging when charging is complete or something ? Even if they did, I can't see that it would be an issue to have the supply running continuously. I have a similar one for my iPod that I leave plugged in all the time, and 90% of the time, it's just a dangling USB lead so no load at all. Was I just unlucky that a crappily built Chinese switcher failed on me in just a couple of months, or did it get upset because it was not being used for its intended purpose, leaving pins 2 and 3 always open ? I just don't want the same thing happening again to my new one ... Check out this page for the resistors that are needed to turn on most USB sources. http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb2.shtml Cheers Arfa |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: Cydrome Leader wrote: Rich Webb wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:34:33 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Anyone know if any USB pins other than 1 and 4, are used as part of the USB charger protocol ? I needed a small 5 volt PSU for a little project, so I bought one of the latest generation 'Apple' chargers from eBay, where it's all built into a standard sized UK 13A mains wall plug. It came with a USB to Apple lead, so I cut the Apple connector off, fully expecting there to be only two wires - Gnd and +5v - in the cable, but there was actually 4 thin wires. So I then assumed that they had maybe just doubled up on the wires, as this thing is rated at 1 amp output. But again, no. All four wires were separate, so I checked what was coming out of it. Just over 5v between black and red, so that's ok, but measuring between black and green, and black and white, there is also voltage. Two point something on one pair, and three point something on the other, I don't recall the exact figures. Could they be just 'pullup' values to keep the "data +" and "data -" lines quiet when it has a genuine USB device connected to it ? AFAIK, in order to pull more than 100 mA from a USB port, a device is supposed to do a digital dance with the host to request the higher capacity, up to 500 mA. There may be (read: probably are) dedicated charging ports that will cheerfully source 500 mA (or more?) to a "dumb" device without requiring the dialog. Isn't it sad all this garbage is needed to send 5 volts down a cable? Needing three resistors is sad? yeah, it is. USB is not like ethernet where adding power happened later on and there is a chance to do weird stuff like plug two PoE switches into each other with a patch cable. USB doesn't support "illegal" scenarios like this due to the connectors, so any extra signalling is just bull**** to lockout devices or make you get stuff you should not need. A couple cents worth of resistors to turn on the port is a simple and sensible way to protect the port. It was designed that way, not added at a later date. Look at the data sheets for some of the hub ICs. to protect the port from what? A device that doesn't work anyways? hub ICs and resistor networks to provide 5 volts and a few hundred mA is just too hard? Can anybody confirm that the clowns that made the miniDIN connector were involved in the creation of USB? |
USB chargers, anyone ?
There is a typo on that document that I don't have the time to find the
correct info for. This (1st paragraph, second last sentence) doesn't make sense: "A charging port supplies up to 500 mA at 5 V, up to the rated current at 3.6 V or more,..." Couldn't find a ready explanation for the rated current, but 3.6A may be what the author meant, however I see later where the rated current is more like 1.5A with 5A maximum. Someone with more time can find the correct reference and fix that article... John :-#)# William Sommerwerck wrote: Perhaps I should have read a bit further. This is probably what you're looking for... Charging ports and accessory charging adapters The USB Battery Charging Specification of 2007 defines new types of USB ports, e.g., charging ports.[44] As compared to standard downstream ports, where a portable device can only draw more than 100 mA current after digital negotiation with the host or hub, charging ports can supply currents above 0.5 A without digital negotiation. A charging port supplies up to 500 mA at 5 V, up to the rated current at 3.6 V or more, and drop its output voltage if the portable device attempts to draw more than the rated current. The charger port may shut down if the load is too high. ... .... The Battery Charging Specification 1.2 of 2010 [12] makes clear, that there are safety limits to the rated current at 5 A coming from USB 2.0. On the other hand several changes are made and limits are increasing including allowing 1.5 A on charging ports for unconfigured devices, allowing high speed communication while having a current up to 1.5 A and allowing a maximum current of 5 A. -- (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
USB chargers, anyone ?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Isn't it sad all this garbage is needed to send 5 volts down a cable? I've seen the USB 2.0 specs, and they're beyond unbelievable. You'd think what appears to be a simple interface would take only ten pages or so to define, but it takes 10 or 20 times that. USB might be "over-defined", but at least it works. I can't think of a USB product I've owned that didn't work correctly. From my point of view, this is not an accident. Somebody did a lot of thinking to make sure there weren't any "gotchas" in the system specification. almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. every chipset for it was buggy (even big name ones like intel), it was slow, and devices other than a mouse were really pushing it. OS support was junk too. My favorite knockout combination was Windows 98 on a Hitachi laptop. There was no chance in hell anything USB would ever work on that combo. I had some digital camera with USB 1 or 1.1. it was actually slower than using the irDA port on the camera, which was emulating 115kb serial. yes, an LED and photodiode behind some plastic window emulating a 1960s method of connecting teletypes to furniture sized computers blew away the mess known as USB. these days, usb mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scannwe between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap.
That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote: Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. That's almost entirely an operating-system issue... not USB per se. It's a question of how does an application locate/identify/address a specific USB peripheral. USB has a tree hierarchy... controllers, hubs (possibly several layers of them) and devices. Applications generally want to open a device using a fixed, repeatable identifier. Depending on the OS and the application, this identifier may be based on the bus topology (which controller, hub chain, and port) or on the unique characteristics of the device itself (model, manufacturer, type, serial number). It sounds as if Windows is creating a unique, long-term identity for the device based on both of these - the device itself, and the bus topology to reach it - and that changing to a different port "orphans" the identity. It might be Windows itself doing this, or the manufacturer-supplied device driver. Other operating systems (e.g. Linux) can assign a unique identity based solely on the device's unique characteristics, assuming that it has enough to make it unique (e.g. a real serial number), and the same identity will be assigned to it no matter what port it's plugged into. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port
really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. That's almost entirely an operating-system issue... not USB per se. Thanks for the explanations. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. I can tell you why. Everybody involved in making USB was complete ****ing idiot. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. What bothers me is every person involved in the USB spec is mouth breating, idiot. They deserve to die in an electrical fire. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. So the typical user is supposed to go in and look at hidden devices and prune them away. you call that plug and play? I don't. I call it pure stupid. USB is a cobbled together piece of ****. It should really have been speced to use miniDIN connectors. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Dave Platt wrote:
In article , William Sommerwerck wrote: Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. That's almost entirely an operating-system issue... not USB per se. It's a question of how does an application locate/identify/address a specific USB peripheral. USB has a tree hierarchy... controllers, hubs (possibly several layers of them) and devices. Applications generally want to open a device using a fixed, repeatable identifier. Depending on the OS and the application, this identifier may be based on the bus topology (which controller, hub chain, and port) or on the unique characteristics of the device itself (model, manufacturer, type, serial number). It sounds as if Windows is creating a unique, long-term identity for the device based on both of these - the device itself, and the bus topology to reach it - and that changing to a different port "orphans" the identity. It might be Windows itself doing this, or the manufacturer-supplied device driver. Other operating systems (e.g. Linux) can assign a unique identity based solely on the device's unique characteristics, assuming that it has enough to make it unique (e.g. a real serial number), and the same identity will be assigned to it no matter what port it's plugged into. Apparently somebody decided that to send a few volts down the line, you need an interface chip, but identifying devices is too hard? It's not like people ran out of UUIDs. I'm pretty sure even my mouse has some sort of serial number. Even a ****ing NE2000 network card from 1991 has one. Plain and simple. USB is completely stupid, from the ground up. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
USB is completely stupid, from the ground up.
I don't know how long you've been using personal computers, but it seems you've never had to set up COM ports, which can be a major pain in the toches. USB largely delivers on its promise of "plug and play". Whatever problems it might have, they are offset by the fact that USB works with little or no fussing. The only problem I can remember is a product that said you shouldn't install the driver until you've plugged in the device, when it was actually the other way around. Or maybe vice-versa. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
USB is completely stupid, from the ground up. I don't know how long you've been using personal computers, but it seems you've never had to set up COM ports, which can be a major pain in the toches. USB largely delivers on its promise of "plug and play". Whatever problems it might have, they are offset by the fact that USB works with little or no fussing. I used a dumb terminal before I had a complete computer, so I'm no stranger to serial and all the goofy breakout boxes, null modem adapters and chain of adapters almost foot long to get stuff to work. It was all pretty stupid, but about as good as it gets for stuff that old. The only problem I can remember is a product that said you shouldn't install the driver until you've plugged in the device, when it was actually the other way around. Or maybe vice-versa. that right there is the sign something inherently doesn't work correctly. If you did just plug something in, you'd end up in a world of hurt most of the time too- again, it's totaly senseless and the sign of a stupid committee at work. Imagine your outlet exploding if you plugged in a new appliance before registering the device with your circuit breaker panel. Or maybe an network device that if plugged into your hub/route/switch would completely destroy your network unless you installed magic drivers or code works or whatever somewhere else first. It's all stupid and there's no excuse for it at all. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Cydrome Leader wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote: USB is completely stupid, from the ground up. I don't know how long you've been using personal computers, but it seems you've never had to set up COM ports, which can be a major pain in the toches. USB largely delivers on its promise of "plug and play". Whatever problems it might have, they are offset by the fact that USB works with little or no fussing. I used a dumb terminal before I had a complete computer, so I'm no stranger to serial and all the goofy breakout boxes, null modem adapters and chain of adapters almost foot long to get stuff to work. It was all pretty stupid, but about as good as it gets for stuff that old. I used a set of barn door hinges, C-clamped on my table as a straight keyer for morse code, before all that I have now came along. Beat that one! Jamie |
USB chargers, anyone ?
"Jamie" t wrote in message ... Cydrome Leader wrote: William Sommerwerck wrote: USB is completely stupid, from the ground up. I don't know how long you've been using personal computers, but it seems you've never had to set up COM ports, which can be a major pain in the toches. USB largely delivers on its promise of "plug and play". Whatever problems it might have, they are offset by the fact that USB works with little or no fussing. I used a dumb terminal before I had a complete computer, so I'm no stranger to serial and all the goofy breakout boxes, null modem adapters and chain of adapters almost foot long to get stuff to work. It was all pretty stupid, but about as good as it gets for stuff that old. I used a set of barn door hinges, C-clamped on my table as a straight keyer for morse code, before all that I have now came along. Beat that one! Jamie My father-in-law was a professional key-man who worked for the UK FO many years ago, and I remember him telling me that the first squeeze key that he put together in some god-forsaken outpost, was made from two thin table knives, taped together at the handles and jammed in a vise, with alligator clips for the connections ... ! :-) Arfa |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Cydrome Leader wrote: William Sommerwerck wrote: Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. I can tell you why. Everybody involved in making USB was complete ****ing idiot. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. What bothers me is every person involved in the USB spec is mouth breating, idiot. They deserve to die in an electrical fire. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. So the typical user is supposed to go in and look at hidden devices and prune them away. you call that plug and play? I don't. I call it pure stupid. USB is a cobbled together piece of ****. It should really have been speced to use miniDIN connectors. Yawn. What have you designed that can track up to 256 ports, and make sure the OS keeps track of what is connected to that port so the proper driver is used for the device? |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Cydrome Leader formulated the question :
William Sommerwerck wrote: Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. I can tell you why. Everybody involved in making USB was complete ****ing idiot. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. What bothers me is every person involved in the USB spec is mouth breating, idiot. They deserve to die in an electrical fire. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. So the typical user is supposed to go in and look at hidden devices and prune them away. you call that plug and play? I don't. I call it pure stupid. USB is a cobbled together piece of ****. It should really have been speced to use miniDIN connectors. Uninformed Bigoted ranting :-? -- John G |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Jamie t wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: William Sommerwerck wrote: USB is completely stupid, from the ground up. I don't know how long you've been using personal computers, but it seems you've never had to set up COM ports, which can be a major pain in the toches. USB largely delivers on its promise of "plug and play". Whatever problems it might have, they are offset by the fact that USB works with little or no fussing. I used a dumb terminal before I had a complete computer, so I'm no stranger to serial and all the goofy breakout boxes, null modem adapters and chain of adapters almost foot long to get stuff to work. It was all pretty stupid, but about as good as it gets for stuff that old. I used a set of barn door hinges, C-clamped on my table as a straight keyer for morse code, before all that I have now came along. Beat that one! That sounds obvious, reliable and easy to fix. Imagine how many GB of ****ty code would be used to do the same thing today, at greater cost and lower reliability. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: William Sommerwerck wrote: Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. I can tell you why. Everybody involved in making USB was complete ****ing idiot. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. What bothers me is every person involved in the USB spec is mouth breating, idiot. They deserve to die in an electrical fire. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. So the typical user is supposed to go in and look at hidden devices and prune them away. you call that plug and play? I don't. I call it pure stupid. USB is a cobbled together piece of ****. It should really have been speced to use miniDIN connectors. Yawn. What have you designed that can track up to 256 ports, and make sure the OS keeps track of what is connected to that port so the proper driver is used for the device? USB can't even keep track of 1 device moved between two ports, so I don't know what your 256 port chatter is even about. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
John G wrote:
Cydrome Leader formulated the question : William Sommerwerck wrote: Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. I can tell you why. Everybody involved in making USB was complete ****ing idiot. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. What bothers me is every person involved in the USB spec is mouth breating, idiot. They deserve to die in an electrical fire. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. So the typical user is supposed to go in and look at hidden devices and prune them away. you call that plug and play? I don't. I call it pure stupid. USB is a cobbled together piece of ****. It should really have been speced to use miniDIN connectors. Uninformed Bigoted ranting :-? feel free to slam down anything I've stated about USB. Let's see what you can come up with. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Cydrome Leader wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote: Cydrome Leader wrote: William Sommerwerck wrote: Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. I can tell you why. Everybody involved in making USB was complete ****ing idiot. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. What bothers me is every person involved in the USB spec is mouth breating, idiot. They deserve to die in an electrical fire. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. So the typical user is supposed to go in and look at hidden devices and prune them away. you call that plug and play? I don't. I call it pure stupid. USB is a cobbled together piece of ****. It should really have been speced to use miniDIN connectors. Yawn. What have you designed that can track up to 256 ports, and make sure the OS keeps track of what is connected to that port so the proper driver is used for the device? USB can't even keep track of 1 device moved between two ports, so I don't know what your 256 port chatter is even about. Maybe USB in the PC world can't handle being moved from port to port, but on my MacbookPro the machine doesn't care which of the two USB ports I plug a peripheral (printer, USB drive, etc.) into - it always finds it, and then uses it immediately. Now that may just be my machine, or perhaps Apple did something right when they wrote their USB handling protocols - I'm sure I don't know! Just happy that it works. Now if only more people used Firewire...(ducking) John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
USB chargers, anyone ?
John Robertson wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: Cydrome Leader wrote: William Sommerwerck wrote: Almost the first 10 years of USB were complete crap. That might be true. My first computer with USB was purchased in 2001, and I never had problems with USB. These days, USB mostly works. It's still obnoxious when devices can't handle being moved between ports though, which is proof USB or everybody that writes device drivers are completely stupid. Does moving a scanner between my front and rear USB port really require a driver reinstallation? WTF? In theory, no, but that's the way it is. If you go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices, and rummage through the listings (especially Universal Serial Bus Controllers), you'll see a lot of grayed USB devices. Many of these represent the /same/ device attached to a /different/ USB jack. In other words, the USB system organizes by ports rather than devices. If you plug a device you've used before into a different port, USB doesn't know this, and installs the driver for use by the new port. I don't know why it was done this way. I can tell you why. Everybody involved in making USB was complete ****ing idiot. If this bothers you, keep track of which jack you plug a device into. Make sure that devices that often connected to the computer at the same time don't use the same jack. What bothers me is every person involved in the USB spec is mouth breating, idiot. They deserve to die in an electrical fire. By the way, it's okay to "prune" the listing of entries for devices you're not using any more, or are duplicates. The worst that can happen is that the device will stop working until you remove/replug the cable. A few months back I deleted something like a hundred entries, without wrecking anything. So the typical user is supposed to go in and look at hidden devices and prune them away. you call that plug and play? I don't. I call it pure stupid. USB is a cobbled together piece of ****. It should really have been speced to use miniDIN connectors. Yawn. What have you designed that can track up to 256 ports, and make sure the OS keeps track of what is connected to that port so the proper driver is used for the device? USB can't even keep track of 1 device moved between two ports, so I don't know what your 256 port chatter is even about. Maybe USB in the PC world can't handle being moved from port to port, but on my MacbookPro the machine doesn't care which of the two USB ports I plug a peripheral (printer, USB drive, etc.) into - it always finds it, and then uses it immediately. Now that may just be my machine, or perhaps Apple did something right when they wrote their USB handling protocols - I'm sure I don't know! Just happy that it works. Now if only more people used Firewire...(ducking) I actually like firewire- and I've never seen a bad/broken implementation of it either. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Maybe USB in the PC world can't handle being moved from
port to port, but on my MacbookPro the machine doesn't care which of the two USB ports I plug a peripheral (printer, USB drive, etc.) into - it always finds it, and then uses it immediately. Ditto for Windows. Let's not turn this into Windows bashing. Just to make it clear... You can plug any USB device into any port at any time, and the correct driver will be found and loaded. If you plug it into a port where it has previously been installed, the driver might be found a bit faster. Furthermore, USB can handle up to 256 devices. I can only defend USB "negatively" -- I've never had problems with it. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
William Sommerwerck wrote: Maybe USB in the PC world can't handle being moved from port to port, but on my MacbookPro the machine doesn't care which of the two USB ports I plug a peripheral (printer, USB drive, etc.) into - it always finds it, and then uses it immediately. Ditto for Windows. Let's not turn this into Windows bashing. Just to make it clear... You can plug any USB device into any port at any time, and the correct driver will be found and loaded. If you plug it into a port where it has previously been installed, the driver might be found a bit faster. Furthermore, USB can handle up to 256 devices. I can only defend USB "negatively" -- I've never had problems with it. I've used it since win 98SE came out, and the only problems I've had were erratic ports on a failing motherboard. The board failed a few days later, with the low ESR caps split open. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
John Robertson wrote: Maybe USB in the PC world can't handle being moved from port to port, but on my MacbookPro the machine doesn't care which of the two USB ports I plug a peripheral (printer, USB drive, etc.) into - it always finds it, and then uses it immediately. Now that may just be my machine, or perhaps Apple did something right when they wrote their USB handling protocols - I'm sure I don't know! Or they just don't tell you what's happening. Two ports is easy. When they work OK. When Apple screws up, it really screws up. I know people who spend hours on the phone to Apple for problems. I'll fix any of their PC or Cisco problems, but I won't touch Apple. I've repaired computer hardware at the component level, from the Motorola 'Exorcisor' 6800 days. I troubleshot MC68340 embedded controller boards at the factory, and my first IBM XT was built from boards all repaired on my bench. I even converted that motherboard from the 256 KB version to the 640 KB version. There is a program they will display all the USB devices a PC has used, along with other information. I can't think of the name right now, and it's not on this hard drive. It's my backup system that I use to program ICs |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Cydrome Leader wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: Yawn. What have you designed that can track up to 256 ports, and make sure the OS keeps track of what is connected to that port so the proper driver is used for the device? USB can't even keep track of 1 device moved between two ports, so I don't know what your 256 port chatter is even about. So, you're clueless, stupid & bitter. Got it. All the computer is doing is telling you that the device wasn't used on that port before. Try swapping an external RS-232 modem & RS-232 mouse on an old PC and you'll be doing all of the work yourself rather than just see a popup. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
There is a program that will display all the USB devices a PC has
used, along with other information. I can't think of the name right now, and it's not on this hard drive. It's my backup system that I use to program ICs. It's called Device Manager. All you need to do is select View -- Show hidden devices, and expand the USB section. This listing isn't available until you set a system variable. I forget what it is. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: Yawn. What have you designed that can track up to 256 ports, and make sure the OS keeps track of what is connected to that port so the proper driver is used for the device? USB can't even keep track of 1 device moved between two ports, so I don't know what your 256 port chatter is even about. So, you're clueless, stupid & bitter. Got it. All the computer is doing is telling you that the device wasn't used on that port before. Try swapping an external RS-232 modem & RS-232 mouse on an old PC and you'll be doing all of the work yourself rather than just see a popup. you don't know what you're talking about is the problem here. take for example an epson 1680 scanner, or tons of other devices. moving it will require a reinstallation of the driver, and you can't just point windows at the location of the drivers, which are already there. Printers are notorious for this bull**** too. Back to the scanner- if you use with with the SCSI interface and change IDs it doesn't require a reinstall. something with USB and how things use it is completely retarded. RS-232 never claimed to be smart, easy or anything. USB does, which is a big lie. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
Take for example an epson 1680 scanner, or tons of other devices.
Moving it will require a reinstallation of the driver, and you can't just point Windows at the location of the drivers, which are already there. Printers are notorious for this bull****, too. No wonder you're farbissen. I've never seen this with USB. USB is keyed to the device's description -- not to a specific port. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
William Sommerwerck wrote: There is a program that will display all the USB devices a PC has used, along with other information. I can't think of the name right now, and it's not on this hard drive. It's my backup system that I use to program ICs. It's called Device Manager. All you need to do is select View -- Show hidden devices, and expand the USB section. This listing isn't available until you set a system variable. I forget what it is. I'm talking about a stand alone program that gives detailed information that isn't available from Device Manager. I just found it online: http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usbdeview.zip Save it, then unzip it. Click on USBDeview.exe to run it. |
USB chargers, anyone ?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Take for example an epson 1680 scanner, or tons of other devices. Moving it will require a reinstallation of the driver, and you can't just point Windows at the location of the drivers, which are already there. Printers are notorious for this bull****, too. No wonder you're farbissen. I've never seen this with USB. USB is keyed to the device's description -- not to a specific port. wrong. the port a device is on is somehow a big deal. Why? I can't explain why people do stupid things, but they do. Intelligent technical people developed stuff like ethernet, where you can move everything around and it works. dumbasses made USB, where that's not the case, and you end up with stuff like CDs with WARNINGS IN CAPS!!! DANGER INSTALL DRIVERS BEFORE PLUGGING IN DEVICE. I've never seen that warning on a parallel port, serial port, starlan adapter port, arcnet adapter port, tokenring port, FDDI port, ethernet port, SCSI port, Fibre Channel port, or anything, ever period. USB = total ****. |
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