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Default Increasing Cable TV SIGNAL LEVELS

In message , Michael A.
Terrell writes

amdx wrote:

On 2/10/2012 8:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
? On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:47:54 -0600, ?
? wrote:
?
?? The Box is a CISCO RNG100
?? Only data I know how to get is;
?? Tuner 537.00 Mhz 2dbmv
?? TDC 75.25 Mhz 5dbmv
?? RDC 20.00 Mhz 30.0dbmv Yes 30.0
??
?
? It's the same as the Cisco Explorer 1540C with some features removed
? by Comcast.
? ?http://www.cincinnatibell.com/shared...40_uguide.pdf?
?
? How to get into the diagnostics:
? Press and hold SELECT on front of unit until the MAIL light
? starts to flash, then press INFO.
? Or
? Press and hold PAUSE on remote until MAIL light starts to
? flash (around 10-15 seconds), then press PAGE-UP (-).
? On some remotes, PAGE (+) might need to be used instead.

? See if you can excavate the SNR numbers. Maybe there's RF garbage on
? the systems (oscillating distribution amp, ingress, whatever, etc).

Hi Jeff,
I don't seem to be able to follow your directions, I don't think I
have enough buttons. To get the info I posted, Push and hold the power
button until the power light blinks, then push power again and the info
screen comes up.
I don't know what the MAIL light is, I don't have a select button nor
a INFO button.
Hey started pushing buttons on the remote, found I can scroll through
15 pages off stuuf I don't have a clue about.

Got some "RF Statistics on page 5"
Current FDC
Freq. 75.250
Level 5 dbmv
S/N 29db
Errs/Ave 0/0

Current Qam
Freq. 513 Mhz
Level -1dbmv
S/N 35db
Errs/Ave 11/0 or 11/1 or 11/3 but mostly 11/0



It shows that you have a 6 dB slope, and the high end is 1 dBmv below
the standard level. It also shows a lot of errors in the recovered
data. QAM is the digital TV signal. Unscrambled channels are referred
to as Clear QAM

Presumably 75.25MHz is an analogue signal? In the UK, at least while the
cable system has carried a mixture of analogues and digitals, the
digitals have been run 10dB below the analogues. If 75.25MHz had been
digital, it would be set at -5dBmV, so there would be a rising slope of
4dB, LF to HF.

In any case, if the 513MHz digital is -1dBmV, and other HF signals are
similar, that is more than sufficient for a digital set-top box. I would
think it should work reliably down to around -15dBmV. If I'm right,
whatever the problem is, it isn't being caused by a lack of signal
level.
--
Ian
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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength MoCA

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.



Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.



Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength MoCA

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:54:36 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.



Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.



Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?


The whole state? Na, there's probably three sane people left.
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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength MoCA

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:54:36 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
??
http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.

Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.


Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?


The whole state? Na, there's probably three sane people left.



:-)

But it's everywhere. Here is an example from South Carolina about what
happens when a company wants to push through a sub-par 125ft and the
city insists state-of-the-art 300ft:

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technol...any_agreement/

They threatened to not renew the franchise. And this was six years ago.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength MoCA


" wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:54:36 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.


Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.



Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?


The whole state? Na, there's probably three sane people left.



The FCC says the requirement is 100 feet in CFR 47-46.606, section
three, quoted below:
---
(3) The visual signal level, across a terminating impedance which
correctly matches the internal impedance of the cable system as viewed
from the subscriber terminal, shall not be less than 1 millivolt across
an internal impedance of 75 ohms (0 dBmV). Additionally, as measured at
the end of a 30 meter (100 foot) cable drop that is connected to the
subscriber tap, it shall not be less than 1.41 millivolts across an
internal impedance of 75 ohms (+3 dBmV). (At other impedance values, the
minimum visual signal level, as viewed from the subscriber terminal,
shall be the square root of 0.0133 (Z) millivolts and, as measured at
the end of a 30 meter (100 foot) cable drop that is connected to the
subscriber tap, shall be 2 times the square root of 0.00662(Z)
millivolts, where Z is the appropriate impedance value.)
---


That mess in Vermont involves Adelphia cable, and the settlement of a
huge fraud lawsuit. They agreed to build to a minimum of 14 homes per
mile, when the industry usually stops at 35-40 homes per mile as ever
paying back the construction costs. Vermont had them by the balls, if
they wanted to renew their franchisee. Adelphia is also heavily invested
in FIOS.


The other franchises I looked at only had a 300 foot limit if it was
Fiber to the structure, which doesn't have the roll off and insertion
loss of coax.

Here is a typical RG6 from Belden:

Freq. (MHz) Attenuation (dB/100 ft.)
5 .67
55 1.60
211 2.87
270 3.24
300 3.43
350 3.72
400 4.00
450 4.26
550 4.71
750 5.59
870 6.00
1000 6.54

This shows the loss at 12.78 dB at 450 MHz which would be a very old
system.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.


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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:04:58 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


3: You know nothing about CATV franchises. 'A measly 100 feet' is
more than adequate for a hell of a lot of drops & house wiring. If that
is what the franchise calls for, THAT IS THE SPECIFICATION, no matter
how much you whine like Sloman. A city or county won't pull a franchise
over one or two people complaining about weak signals. They receive a
fixed percentage of the system revenue every month, and the percentage
was set when the economy was up. If they pull the franchise, another
provider will offer a much lower percentage. It also involves legal
fees, and causes the rates to go up for the users. Why put up with all
that for a fraction of a percent of problems. Like people who built a
private road a mile long and want to pay the standard install fee when
it will cost about $15,000 to run a feeder for that one house. Or like
that marina. It isn't a street. It's private property. If they want
better service, let them pay for upgrades with .500 cable to each boat,
with a .500 to 'F" connector for each boat. That would only cost a few
hundred dollars a boat for materials. More if the cable is jacketed.
If it isn't it won't last long in salt air. Double that for the
hardware and labor to get a good idea of the costs.


Oh, that's right. You're too cheap to even have cable TV.

Read more carefully. I said TV doesn't matter to us, it is not about cost.



Then why are you being such an ignorant prick about the issue when
you have no horse in the race? You sound more like Dimbulb every day.
I used to think highly of you, but no longer


Geez Michael, one stupid thread and you trash years of positive
experience?

Just the same, i didn't expect him to even think of pretending knowledge
where he was not well versed in the specific area under discussion.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength


josephkk wrote:

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:04:58 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


3: You know nothing about CATV franchises. 'A measly 100 feet' is
more than adequate for a hell of a lot of drops & house wiring. If that
is what the franchise calls for, THAT IS THE SPECIFICATION, no matter
how much you whine like Sloman. A city or county won't pull a franchise
over one or two people complaining about weak signals. They receive a
fixed percentage of the system revenue every month, and the percentage
was set when the economy was up. If they pull the franchise, another
provider will offer a much lower percentage. It also involves legal
fees, and causes the rates to go up for the users. Why put up with all
that for a fraction of a percent of problems. Like people who built a
private road a mile long and want to pay the standard install fee when
it will cost about $15,000 to run a feeder for that one house. Or like
that marina. It isn't a street. It's private property. If they want
better service, let them pay for upgrades with .500 cable to each boat,
with a .500 to 'F" connector for each boat. That would only cost a few
hundred dollars a boat for materials. More if the cable is jacketed.
If it isn't it won't last long in salt air. Double that for the
hardware and labor to get a good idea of the costs.


Oh, that's right. You're too cheap to even have cable TV.

Read more carefully. I said TV doesn't matter to us, it is not about cost.



Then why are you being such an ignorant prick about the issue when
you have no horse in the race? You sound more like Dimbulb every day.
I used to think highly of you, but no longer


Geez Michael, one stupid thread and you trash years of positive
experience?

Just the same, i didn't expect him to even think of pretending knowledge
where he was not well versed in the specific area under discussion.



I'm in a lot more pain lately, and I'm having a harder time
controlling my temper. I am dropping a lot of things, between carpal
Tunnel & nerve damage to my hands. I am also tired of hearing lies from
doctors. For some reason, my medication for enlarged prostrate was put
on hold for 90 days, and not being able to sleep more than an hour or
two at a time is starting to get to me after two months without more
than four hours sleep a night. There are days that I want them to cut
my damn legs off, to get rid of the constant pain. they hurt when I lay
down. They hurt when i get up. They hurt when I'm sitting, and when
I'm walking. I have been waiting over a year for the proper surgical
support stockings, only to be told a few days ago that it's no longer
available. I waited over five years for a pair of diabetic shoes. I
couldn't find anything that fit, so I was wearing a pair of old shoes
that should have been tossed three years ago. 10 years ago my feet were
8.5 wide. Because of Diabetes and circulation problems, they are now 11
EEEEEE (yes, 6E) and some days I have trouble even getting those on. I
have 'Turned the other cheek' so many times that I no longer care.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength

On Feb 8, 4:36*pm, Fred Bloggs
wrote:
On Feb 8, 2:00*pm, amdx wrote:


Those amps with power inserters, available from Radio Shack for around
$40-50 as I recall, do work well, HOWEVER, I have had 2 of them burn
out on me. They do run rather hot. But when they work, they usually do
the trick. You power it from the TV end and the inline amp has a
blocking cap so you don't put DC on the whole system. Theoreticaslly,
that is what you need. I think you should put one amp every 50 feet
but that may not be possible for you.


Use a 15dB gain drop amp with power inserter, but that's just a guess.
Would help if you actually knew signal levels like what the receiver
requires for optimum reception and what the cable co sources. Putting
the amplifier at source gives you a typical system noise figure of
3dB, but putting it at your end limits your NF to 10dB minimum from
the start.


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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength

On Feb 20, 8:44*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
...snip...
* *I'm in a lot more pain lately, and I'm having a harder time
controlling my temper. I am dropping a lot of things, between carpal
Tunnel & nerve damage to my hands. *I am also tired of hearing lies from
doctors. *For some reason, my medication for enlarged prostrate was put
on hold for 90 days, and not being able to sleep more than an hour or
two at a time is starting to get to me after two months without more
than four hours sleep a night. *There are days that I want them to cut
my damn legs off, to get rid of the constant pain. they hurt when I lay
down. *They hurt when i get up. *They hurt when I'm sitting, and when
I'm walking. I have been waiting over a year for the proper surgical
support stockings, only to be told a few days ago that it's no longer
available. *I waited over five years for a pair of diabetic shoes. *I
couldn't find anything that fit, so I was wearing a pair of old shoes
that should have been tossed three years ago. *10 years ago my feet were
8.5 wide. *Because of Diabetes and circulation problems, they are now 11
EEEEEE (yes, 6E) and some days I have trouble even getting those on. *I
have 'Turned the other cheek' so many times that I no longer care.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.


Does 100% oxygen environment help at all?

I vaguely remember reading about successful treatment of diabetically
induced poor circulation and neuropathy being treated by high pressure
100% oxygen environments. The patient sits in one of those 'bends'
cure tanks foran hour a day over some sequence of time to have all
their symptoms start mitigating. Downside [again from memory] was the
dnagerous 100% oxygen higher pressure atmosphere required extreme care
to administer, and not many people have that experience.

If all the people that have followed your replies/postings over the
years and have gained respect for you/your comments, could take on as
burden 1/1000th of your pain, you'd be pain free today.

Regards,
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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength


AI4QJ wrote:

On Feb 8, 4:36 pm, Fred Bloggs
wrote:
On Feb 8, 2:00 pm, amdx wrote:


Those amps with power inserters, available from Radio Shack for around
$40-50 as I recall, do work well, HOWEVER, I have had 2 of them burn
out on me. They do run rather hot. But when they work, they usually do
the trick. You power it from the TV end and the inline amp has a
blocking cap so you don't put DC on the whole system. Theoreticaslly,
that is what you need. I think you should put one amp every 50 feet
but that may not be possible for you.



What kind of coax has 10 dB loss per 50 feet, and at what frequency?
Those RS amps have no equalization, so the low channels would overlaod
the front end, and the high channels would still be snowy if you need
more than one or two..


--
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Default Increasing Cable TV signal strength


Robert Macy wrote:

I vaguely remember reading about successful treatment of diabetically
induced poor circulation and neuropathy being treated by high pressure
100% oxygen environments. The patient sits in one of those 'bends'
cure tanks foran hour a day over some sequence of time to have all
their symptoms start mitigating. Downside [again from memory] was the
dnagerous 100% oxygen higher pressure atmosphere required extreme care
to administer, and not many people have that experience.



The only hyperbaric chamber in this area was used for race horses.
It recently exploded, killing the horse and one of the Veterinary staff.

http://www.ocala.com/article/2012021...cles/120219990


It's not available at the VA clinic I use, and the VA hospital is an
hour away. They do have X-ray, MRI, Ultrasound & Cat scan along with
two operating rooms for minor surgery but some things are too hard to
have justified for the VA to purchase for use outside a full scale
hospital. I've seen hospitals that were smaller than this clinic. It
has 100 exam rooms.


If all the people that have followed your replies/postings over the
years and have gained respect for you/your comments, could take on as
burden 1/1000th of your pain, you'd be pain free today.



Thank you.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
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