Jeff Liebermann wrote:
As a former member of the Anti Digit Dialing League and fan of The
Prisoner (I am not a number...), I find the whole effort amusing.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,827416,00.html

Here in Israel beef cuts are sold by number instead of name. I always make a
point of asking my wife to buy a number 6 for dinner.

I was always amused by the re-imagined Battelstar Galactica, where they
bad guys had numbers instead of names. Their main character was number
6.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:49:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip
Incidentally, the reason I didn't want to run wires any more is that I
was taking statins to reduce cholesterol for the last 8 years. The
side effect was ever increasing back aches. They were tolerable for
the first 5 years, but continued to get worse until I was unable to do
many things. I stopped taking statins about a year ago, and had to
wait 6 months for the back aches to mostly go away. I'm now trying to
get back into shape so I can again crawl around under houses running
wires. Meanwhile, it's a good excuse to not get dirty.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ooh, Jeff. Get that liver looked at. My brother just died of liver cancer.
His symptom for at least a couple years prior - worsening back pain.

Mark Z.

On 1/25/2011 7:37 AM, Mark Zacharias wrote:
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
Incidentally, the reason I didn't want to run wires any more is that I
was taking statins to reduce cholesterol for the last 8 years. The
side effect was ever increasing back aches. They were tolerable for
the first 5 years, but continued to get worse until I was unable to do
many things. I stopped taking statins about a year ago, and had to
wait 6 months for the back aches to mostly go away. I'm now trying to
get back into shape so I can again crawl around under houses running
wires. Meanwhile, it's a good excuse to not get dirty.

Ooh, Jeff. Get that liver looked at. My brother just died of liver
cancer. His symptom for at least a couple years prior - worsening back
pain.

Mark Z.

Don't you DARE drop dead on me, I ain't got the room to take all
your stuff.

Jeff

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 1/25/2011 7:37 AM, Mark Zacharias wrote:
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
Incidentally, the reason I didn't want to run wires any more is that I
was taking statins to reduce cholesterol for the last 8 years. The
side effect was ever increasing back aches. They were tolerable for
the first 5 years, but continued to get worse until I was unable to do
many things. I stopped taking statins about a year ago, and had to
wait 6 months for the back aches to mostly go away. I'm now trying to
get back into shape so I can again crawl around under houses running
wires. Meanwhile, it's a good excuse to not get dirty.

Ooh, Jeff. Get that liver looked at. My brother just died of liver
cancer. His symptom for at least a couple years prior - worsening back
pain.

Mark Z.

Don't you DARE drop dead on me, I ain't got the room to take all
your stuff.


You better make room for all MY stuff! About four tractor trailer
loads.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:37:47 -0600, "Mark Zacharias"
wrote:

Ooh, Jeff. Get that liver looked at. My brother just died of liver cancer.
His symptom for at least a couple years prior - worsening back pain.
Mark Z.

Thanks. No back pains now, after I stopped taking statins. Not to
worry. I've been running hepatic function blood tests since I started
taking statins. The bad news is that statins seems to have done some
permanent muscle damage in my back and arms. Also, liver cancer is a
potential problem for me as I had prostate cancer in 2006, which tends
to spread to adjacent organs. I'm also watching that with irregular
PSA tests. Still, this is all a good excuse for not running wires
under floors and above ceilings.

None of this worries me as I already know how I'll meet my end. It
will be in a supermarket parking lot, run over by some hurried shopper
going diagonally across the parking spaces, thinking that all the
rules of the road are suspended in the parking lot. I've come closer
to meeting my end in such parking lots than from any medical or
military condition.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:04:30 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

Don't you DARE drop dead on me, I ain't got the room to take all
your stuff.

Relax. The instructions in my will are to burn everything to the
ground in a giant funeral pyre. That makes the final distribution of
property rather simple. If there's something you want or need, please
ask before my demise so that I can inform the appropriate tax agency.
The good news is that the first $12,000 is tax free. The bad news is
that the various tax agencies are using eBay prices for appraisals and
don't care if it's working or broken. My guess is that I have a few
more years to live, so your request might be a bit premature.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:37:47 -0600, "Mark Zacharias"
wrote:

Ooh, Jeff. Get that liver looked at. My brother just died of liver cancer.
His symptom for at least a couple years prior - worsening back pain.
Mark Z.

Thanks. No back pains now, after I stopped taking statins. Not to
worry. I've been running hepatic function blood tests since I started
taking statins. The bad news is that statins seems to have done some
permanent muscle damage in my back and arms. Also, liver cancer is a
potential problem for me as I had prostate cancer in 2006, which tends
to spread to adjacent organs. I'm also watching that with irregular
PSA tests. Still, this is all a good excuse for not running wires
under floors and above ceilings.

None of this worries me as I already know how I'll meet my end. It
will be in a supermarket parking lot, run over by some hurried shopper
going diagonally across the parking spaces, thinking that all the
rules of the road are suspended in the parking lot. I've come closer
to meeting my end in such parking lots than from any medical or
military condition.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Good to know you're keeping up on stuff. There are different results with
different statins, but I quit taking them myself.

My brother had hepatitis C for 35 years and was diabetic as well, but even
though they kept an eye on his liver enzymes, the cancer was only diagnosed
after he had been complaining of swelling and bloating for a few months. By
then it was too late. The back pain was probably an early symptom, but he
had already had back problems, so they were looking at that as an isolated
problem.
Seems like a CAT scan every few years, when he had known risk factors, would
have been appropriate. Damn insurance companies...

I have low-option HMO insurance, with all kinds of deductibles and co-pays,
and it still costs me and my wife over 16,000 per year. Went up 22% the
instant Obamacare passed. Not going to be able to keep it up. I don't care
about any mandate. I'm dropping the insurance, and changing my focus from
health insurance to asset protection for when I have to declare bankruptcy
the first time one of us gets really sick.

Sorry for the rant...

Mark Z.

Mark Zacharias wrote:
I have low-option HMO insurance, with all kinds of deductibles and co-pays,
and it still costs me and my wife over 16,000 per year. Went up 22% the
instant Obamacare passed. Not going to be able to keep it up. I don't care
about any mandate. I'm dropping the insurance, and changing my focus from
health insurance to asset protection for when I have to declare bankruptcy
the first time one of us gets really sick.

You don't have to answer the question, but are you Jewish? If not, was any
of your (or your wife's) grandparents Jewish?

Depsite what Jeff said about Israel in the 1970's, it's actually a booming
hi-tech country, with full socialized medical care. Instead of the doomed
national health plan they use in the UK, here the goverment collects a
"health tax" and pays for an HMO (there are 4).

The minimum coverage is regulated by law, and each HMO tries to offer better
coverage to compete. Since basic coverage is universal, there are many options
for low cost extra insurance if you want it.

New immigrants and returning citizens get into the system with pre-existing
conditions covered.

If you emigrate and don't work (for example, live off your savings, or other
assitance), the State of Israel pays your first year premiums. If you start
working before then, you pay the health tax like everyone else.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:08:43 -0600, "Mark Zacharias"
wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:37:47 -0600, "Mark Zacharias"
wrote:

Ooh, Jeff. Get that liver looked at. My brother just died of liver cancer.
His symptom for at least a couple years prior - worsening back pain.
Mark Z.

Thanks. No back pains now, after I stopped taking statins. Not to
worry. I've been running hepatic function blood tests since I started
taking statins. The bad news is that statins seems to have done some
permanent muscle damage in my back and arms. Also, liver cancer is a
potential problem for me as I had prostate cancer in 2006, which tends
to spread to adjacent organs. I'm also watching that with irregular
PSA tests. Still, this is all a good excuse for not running wires
under floors and above ceilings.

None of this worries me as I already know how I'll meet my end. It
will be in a supermarket parking lot, run over by some hurried shopper
going diagonally across the parking spaces, thinking that all the
rules of the road are suspended in the parking lot. I've come closer
to meeting my end in such parking lots than from any medical or
military condition.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Good to know you're keeping up on stuff. There are different results with
different statins, but I quit taking them myself.

My brother had hepatitis C for 35 years and was diabetic as well, but even
though they kept an eye on his liver enzymes, the cancer was only diagnosed
after he had been complaining of swelling and bloating for a few months. By
then it was too late. The back pain was probably an early symptom, but he
had already had back problems, so they were looking at that as an isolated
problem.
Seems like a CAT scan every few years, when he had known risk factors, would
have been appropriate. Damn insurance companies...

I have low-option HMO insurance, with all kinds of deductibles and co-pays,
and it still costs me and my wife over 16,000 per year. Went up 22% the
instant Obamacare passed. Not going to be able to keep it up. I don't care
about any mandate. I'm dropping the insurance, and changing my focus from
health insurance to asset protection for when I have to declare bankruptcy
the first time one of us gets really sick.

Sorry for the rant...

Mark Z.


Mark, I know how you feel. My wifes's insurance company Blue X won't
pay for a PET scan to see if her liver cancer has returned. Death
panels indeed. Chuck

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Mark Zacharias wrote:
I have low-option HMO insurance, with all kinds of deductibles and
co-pays,
and it still costs me and my wife over 16,000 per year. Went up 22% the
instant Obamacare passed. Not going to be able to keep it up. I don't
care
about any mandate. I'm dropping the insurance, and changing my focus from
health insurance to asset protection for when I have to declare
bankruptcy
the first time one of us gets really sick.

You don't have to answer the question, but are you Jewish? If not, was any
of your (or your wife's) grandparents Jewish?

Depsite what Jeff said about Israel in the 1970's, it's actually a booming
hi-tech country, with full socialized medical care.



Instead of the doomed
national health plan they use in the UK,

Meaning what, exactly ... ?


Arfa

I wrote:
Instead of the doomed
national health plan they use in the UK,

Arfa Daily wrote:

Meaning what, exactly ... ?

Until the UK figures out a way to separate the National Health from the general
budget, it's going to be "asuterity"'ed into nothingness.

Since it is funded from the same fund as everything else, and has no
competition, it just spends and spends and provides less services as money
dries up.

For example, according to a large cancer support organization around 90% of
all cancer patients EVER see an oncologist (cancer specialist). This is up
from less than 80 10 years ago.

I'll give you an example I read in Reader's Digest. Currently when a tube
gets partially used it is impossible to squeeze the medicine out. Someone
in the UK invented a new tube with a knob on the bottom, costing about 1.5 UKP
each. This was going to save the national health millions.

My wife goes to the "dollar store" and buys a set of plastic clamps which
do the same thing. We use them for toothpaste, but you could use them
for anything in a tube. If you had them made to order and shipped in bulk,
they would cost a few pence.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Until the UK figures out a way to separate the National Health from the
general budget, it's going to be "asuterity"'ed into nothingness.

Since it is funded from the same fund as everything else, and has no
competition, it just spends and spends and provides less services as
money dries up.

Am I right in saying you consider the various private schemes in the US
the model of efficiency?

The only way to fund a system designed for everyone - rich or poor - is
out of general taxation.

Personally, I've been lucky in never needing much in the way of expensive
medical treatment - yet - but what dealings I have had with our NHS have
been favourable. Although it does take some time to get into the system if
it's not urgent. In some ways, no bad thing.
But I've got friends and relations who have needed major treatment. And
all of those are grateful to the NHS.

I have private insurance for my dog. And car. And house. None of those
provides the sort of perfect service those who are opposed to a state
system say they do.

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Am I right in saying you consider the various private schemes in the US
the model of efficiency?

No. You are completely off base. I think ObamaCare is a disaster. It goes
too far in requirments and too short in providing things. Because it now
limits the amount a company can raise premiums to 30% several people I
know have had their payments raised 29.9%.


The only way to fund a system designed for everyone - rich or poor - is
out of general taxation.

Agreed. But it's how it is spent. I disagree with the whole NHS system.
And no, I am not in the US. I am in Israel which has a much better system.

As for your relatives, I hope they don't have cancer. If they live in a big
city such as London, there is a 95% chance they will see a specialist ONCE.
In the country the chance goes down to 50% or less.

Second or recurring visits are also not as frequent, even in London.

I did not make this up, here is some historical data:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116372/

You can get current data from:

http://www.macmillan.org.uk/

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
As for your relatives, I hope they don't have cancer. If they live in a
big city such as London, there is a 95% chance they will see a
specialist ONCE. In the country the chance goes down to 50% or less.

A pal of mine has had bowel cancer and also has prostrate cancer. Lives in
London. This is quite the reverse of his experience.

Second or recurring visits are also not as frequent, even in London.

I did not make this up, here is some historical data:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116372/

Historical being the pertinent point - it's quoting data gathered over 20
years ago.

You can get current data from:

http://www.macmillan.org.uk/

I'm not saying things can't be improved. Especially with unlimited money.
But nothing is ever perfect. All one can reasonably expect is the best
compromise.

--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Health Care

I could spend several posts discussing this. However...

The logical way to do it would be to throw out the insurance companies and
tax everyone -- individuals and employers -- specifically for health care.
People could then select whatever doctor or hospital they wanted (thus
encouraging competition), and the government would pay the bill. There would
be a deductible for both treatment and medications proportional to an
individual's income.

Of course, such a system would become an open feeding trough for hospitals
and physicians. (Note the amount of Medicare abuse and fraud.) The truly
tough part of such a system is... How do you regulate costs? Regulation
/necessarily/ includes denial of treatment (ie, rationing) when a patient is
"too old", or the condition so severe that it wouldn't be worth the cost.

If the US were truly a "Christian" country, this problem wouldn't exist.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...


I wrote:
Instead of the doomed
national health plan they use in the UK,

Arfa Daily wrote:

Meaning what, exactly ... ?

Until the UK figures out a way to separate the National Health from the
general
budget, it's going to be "asuterity"'ed into nothingness.

Since it is funded from the same fund as everything else, and has no
competition, it just spends and spends and provides less services as money
dries up.

For example, according to a large cancer support organization around 90%
of
all cancer patients EVER see an oncologist (cancer specialist). This is up
from less than 80 10 years ago.

I'll give you an example I read in Reader's Digest. Currently when a tube
gets partially used it is impossible to squeeze the medicine out. Someone
in the UK invented a new tube with a knob on the bottom, costing about 1.5
UKP
each. This was going to save the national health millions.

My wife goes to the "dollar store" and buys a set of plastic clamps which
do the same thing. We use them for toothpaste, but you could use them
for anything in a tube. If you had them made to order and shipped in bulk,
they would cost a few pence.

Geoff.

--


Considering that you neither reside in the UK, nor have cause to make use of
the facilities of our health service, I find it a little presumptuous of
you to feel that you are qualified to pass comment on its continuing
viability, or otherwise. One thing that you need to understand, is that
NHS-bashing is a national sport here, and articles such as that which you
are quoting as being read by your wife, appear every week in the daily and
Sunday press. The Readers' Digest is no more separated from this practice
than any other press offerings, despite the way it tries to present itself.

As far as the content of the story goes, with the ongoing restructuring of
the health service, I very much doubt that medicines are being wasted in the
way described, as an 'across the board' event. For sure, somebody has
probably seen this being done in some health establishment somewhere, and
extrapolated this into common practice. The truth is probably much removed
from that. The people 'on the ground' in the health service are ordinary
folk like you and I, and I don't suppose they like to see waste in their
working lives, any more than they do in their personal ones. I'm sure that
if there is a way to get the remaining medicine out of the tube, the vast
majority of employees are doing so. Apart from that, we don't actually know
that there are not valid operational reasons why sometimes, medicines left
in containers may be thrown away. There could be contamination issues, or
maybe the medicine starts to deteriorate as soon as it is opened, and then
has a very short ongoing shelf life. Whilst there may be some truth in this
story, I think it needs to be considered with a degree of scepticism. These
stories are told in a way as to be deliberately provocative and to cause
outrage at supposed 'waste in the NHS'.

For the most part, the NHS delivers a first class service to patients and,
whilst there are errors made - and you will always be able to find someone
that has got some outrageous claim about how they or their uncle Willy or
their friend down the street was badly treated - the vast majority of people
are perfectly satisfied with the treatment and service that they receive,
and are glad that it is there for them 24 / 7 / 365, without having to worry
about who's going to pay. You must also remember that it is a huge
employer - I think I recently read somewhere that it is the largest employer
in the whole of Europe - and for that reason, if no other, there is going to
be issues with overstaffing and waste from time to time. This is true of any
large organisation, so is sure to be of a mega one like the NHS.

As to your comments about percentages of cancer patients being seen by an
oncologist, I'm not sure that I follow exactly what you were trying to say
there. With UK NHS patients, 100% of people will be referred to an
appropriate consultant (highest level of hospital-based specialist doctor /
surgeon in any particular field) if their general practitioner deems it
necessary. Patients suspected of having cancer are referred immediately, and
often seen within a few days. It is not unusual for treatment - either
medical, nuclear, surgical or all three, to be started within a week of
confirmed diagnosis.

So no. I think, as a resident of the UK, and a user of the NHS for the whole
of my life, you are quite wrong, and the health service is no more 'doomed'
than it has been at any time in its now quite lengthy existence. The current
round of financial austerity measures that have had to be implemented by
this incoming government to try to clear up the mess we are in, are sure to
have some impact on a very heavy tax-spender such as the NHS, but it will
certainly not be "austerity'd into nothing" as you so quaintly put it. The
hospital managers will have to learn better control of their finances, as
they have had to in the past. The only reason that they have forgotten how
to do this now, is that the previous government was of a socialist flavour,
and they thought that the way to improve everything, including the NHS, was
to throw money at it. This has resulted in a top-heavy management structure,
and a lot of internal waste. Once this has been addressed, the NHS will
again be able to deliver cost-effective high quality care, as it has in the
past.

Arfa

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Am I right in saying you consider the various private schemes in the US
the model of efficiency?

No. You are completely off base. I think ObamaCare is a disaster. It goes
too far in requirments and too short in providing things. Because it now
limits the amount a company can raise premiums to 30% several people I
know have had their payments raised 29.9%.


The only way to fund a system designed for everyone - rich or poor - is
out of general taxation.

Agreed. But it's how it is spent. I disagree with the whole NHS system.
And no, I am not in the US. I am in Israel which has a much better system.

As for your relatives, I hope they don't have cancer. If they live in a
big
city such as London, there is a 95% chance they will see a specialist
ONCE.
In the country the chance goes down to 50% or less.

Second or recurring visits are also not as frequent, even in London.

I did not make this up, here is some historical data:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116372/

You can get current data from:

http://www.macmillan.org.uk/

Geoff.


I'm sorry, but this is absolute nonsense, being quoted out of context, by
someone who has no direct knowledge or experience of the NHS.

Arfa

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I did not make this up, here is some historical data:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116372/

You can get current data from:

http://www.macmillan.org.uk/

Geoff.


I'm sorry, but this is absolute nonsense, being quoted out of context,
by someone who has no direct knowledge or experience of the NHS.

I only glanced at them. The first makes reference to statistics gathered
over 20 years ago. The second is a charity specialising in cancer care -
so obviously has a slanted view.

There's also a lot more to a health service than treating cancer -
important though that may be.

--
*I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:58:53 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

As far as the content of the story goes, with the ongoing restructuring of
the health service, I very much doubt that medicines are being wasted in the
way described, as an 'across the board' event. For sure, somebody has
probably seen this being done in some health establishment somewhere, and
extrapolated this into common practice.

In the USA, there's a rule that bans the re-use or recycling of any
hospital dispensers, containers, plates, cups, trays, and such. I
think this started in about 2002. The official justification was to
help control hospital infections. The reality was a rather large
increase in costs, and an excuse for an increase in hospital care
charges. I asked what happens to all that stuff... high temp
incineration.

We also have a problem with Medicare fraud. However, it's not the
patients that are doing it. It's often medical organizations, that
build "paper" clinics, and fabricate fraudulent charges.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Medicaid_Fraud
In the past, this was somewhat tolerated by the government for
hospitals because they were using creative Medicare charges to fund
marginal services, such as trauma care centers, non-paying indigent
care, and some counseling, that would otherwise have collapsed.

Even with all the fraud, the total costs of Medicare and the impending
Obamacare, is many orders of magnitude greater. With an annual cost
approching trillions of dollars, a few dollars saves on squeezing all
the medicine out of a tube isn't going to have much of an impact.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/23/2011 3:02 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ers.com,
David wrote:

On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:

He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few miles
down the Interstate from LA

OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call
them that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as
"turnpikes" in some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even
know what an "interstate" is ...

In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in
usage between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San
Francisco and thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a
road (highway, interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road
number, as in "the 405", "the 101", etc.

But bewa up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)

I don't think Arfa is going to "blend" whether he uses your terminology
or not, and I doubt that's his objective. But you wrote an awful lot of
words without using "freeway," which is what we call the 101 here, and
is the most common word for "interstate highway" throughout the midwest,
as well. I'm not going to say unequivocally that it's widely used all
over the U.S., because I don't know for sure, but I'd bet money on it.

In cities with many freeways, they have to use more specific terms, but
when there's only one, who needs a number?

BTW, everyone I know in LA doesn't use numbers at all, but names that
are meaningless to outsiders even if they have a map: "Ventura freeway,"
"Hollywood freeway," "Pasadena freeway," etc.

Chicago, and to a lesser degree Detroit, are the same way. Must confuse
the crap out of visitors trying to understand traffic reports on the radio.

--
aem sends...

heat sink goop

cars with both metric and english fasteners

bristol spline srews

Ron D. wrote in message
...
heat sink goop

cars with both metric and english fasteners

bristol spline srews


Could you describe a "bristol spline screw" Google-images no help other than
they are used on 30KV rated relays

N_Cook wrote:

Ron D. wrote in message
...
heat sink goop

cars with both metric and english fasteners

bristol spline srews

Could you describe a "bristol spline screw" Google-images no help other than
they are used on 30KV rated relays


Bristol was used in electronic equipment build by the US during
W.W.-II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench, almost half way down the page.

http://www.bristolwrench.com/ still makes them.

http://www.bristolwrench.com/spline.pdf

They are availible from a lot of industrial tool dealers.

A lot of people called them 'Spline Wrenches' instead of Bristol
Wrenches.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:58:53 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:



"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...


I wrote:
Instead of the doomed
national health plan they use in the UK,

Arfa Daily wrote:

Meaning what, exactly ... ?

Until the UK figures out a way to separate the National Health from the
general
budget, it's going to be "asuterity"'ed into nothingness.

Since it is funded from the same fund as everything else, and has no
competition, it just spends and spends and provides less services as money
dries up.

For example, according to a large cancer support organization around 90%
of
all cancer patients EVER see an oncologist (cancer specialist). This is up
from less than 80 10 years ago.

I'll give you an example I read in Reader's Digest. Currently when a tube
gets partially used it is impossible to squeeze the medicine out. Someone
in the UK invented a new tube with a knob on the bottom, costing about 1.5
UKP
each. This was going to save the national health millions.

My wife goes to the "dollar store" and buys a set of plastic clamps which
do the same thing. We use them for toothpaste, but you could use them
for anything in a tube. If you had them made to order and shipped in bulk,
they would cost a few pence.

Geoff.

--


Considering that you neither reside in the UK, nor have cause to make use of
the facilities of our health service, I find it a little presumptuous of
you to feel that you are qualified to pass comment on its continuing
viability, or otherwise. One thing that you need to understand, is that
NHS-bashing is a national sport here, and articles such as that which you
are quoting as being read by your wife, appear every week in the daily and
Sunday press. The Readers' Digest is no more separated from this practice
than any other press offerings, despite the way it tries to present itself.

As far as the content of the story goes, with the ongoing restructuring of
the health service, I very much doubt that medicines are being wasted in the
way described, as an 'across the board' event. For sure, somebody has
probably seen this being done in some health establishment somewhere, and
extrapolated this into common practice. The truth is probably much removed
from that. The people 'on the ground' in the health service are ordinary
folk like you and I, and I don't suppose they like to see waste in their
working lives, any more than they do in their personal ones. I'm sure that
if there is a way to get the remaining medicine out of the tube, the vast
majority of employees are doing so. Apart from that, we don't actually know
that there are not valid operational reasons why sometimes, medicines left
in containers may be thrown away. There could be contamination issues, or
maybe the medicine starts to deteriorate as soon as it is opened, and then
has a very short ongoing shelf life. Whilst there may be some truth in this
story, I think it needs to be considered with a degree of scepticism. These
stories are told in a way as to be deliberately provocative and to cause
outrage at supposed 'waste in the NHS'.

For the most part, the NHS delivers a first class service to patients and,
whilst there are errors made - and you will always be able to find someone
that has got some outrageous claim about how they or their uncle Willy or
their friend down the street was badly treated - the vast majority of people
are perfectly satisfied with the treatment and service that they receive,
and are glad that it is there for them 24 / 7 / 365, without having to worry
about who's going to pay. You must also remember that it is a huge
employer - I think I recently read somewhere that it is the largest employer
in the whole of Europe - and for that reason, if no other, there is going to
be issues with overstaffing and waste from time to time. This is true of any
large organisation, so is sure to be of a mega one like the NHS.

As to your comments about percentages of cancer patients being seen by an
oncologist, I'm not sure that I follow exactly what you were trying to say
there. With UK NHS patients, 100% of people will be referred to an
appropriate consultant (highest level of hospital-based specialist doctor /
surgeon in any particular field) if their general practitioner deems it
necessary. Patients suspected of having cancer are referred immediately, and
often seen within a few days. It is not unusual for treatment - either
medical, nuclear, surgical or all three, to be started within a week of
confirmed diagnosis.

So no. I think, as a resident of the UK, and a user of the NHS for the whole
of my life, you are quite wrong, and the health service is no more 'doomed'
than it has been at any time in its now quite lengthy existence. The current
round of financial austerity measures that have had to be implemented by
this incoming government to try to clear up the mess we are in, are sure to
have some impact on a very heavy tax-spender such as the NHS, but it will
certainly not be "austerity'd into nothing" as you so quaintly put it. The
hospital managers will have to learn better control of their finances, as
they have had to in the past. The only reason that they have forgotten how
to do this now, is that the previous government was of a socialist flavour,
and they thought that the way to improve everything, including the NHS, was
to throw money at it. This has resulted in a top-heavy management structure,
and a lot of internal waste. Once this has been addressed, the NHS will
again be able to deliver cost-effective high quality care, as it has in the
past.

Arfa


In the United States, the health insurers and their media shills
concoct horror stories about the various European goverment managed
health care systems. The average American, most of which who haven't
lived in other countries, believe the lies. Chuck

In article ,
Chuck wrote:
In the United States, the health insurers and their media shills
concoct horror stories about the various European goverment managed
health care systems. The average American, most of which who haven't
lived in other countries, believe the lies.

A pal's sister lives in the US - was married to a US guy. She was born in
the UK and moved there when adult. Her husband walked out leaving her with
vast debts which she knew nothing about - their house will have to be
sold, or more likely repossessed. But their health insurance came with his
job. She is very worried. At 60, she's lived most of her life in the US
and doesn't want to come back to the UK as she has no friends left here.

At least in the UK you'll get pretty decent medical treatment regardless
of how poor you are.

--
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 1/30/2011 9:28 AM aemeijers spake thus:

On 1/23/2011 3:02 AM, Smitty Two wrote:

BTW, everyone I know in LA doesn't use numbers at all, but names that
are meaningless to outsiders even if they have a map: "Ventura freeway,"
"Hollywood freeway," "Pasadena freeway," etc.

Chicago, and to a lesser degree Detroit, are the same way. Must confuse
the crap out of visitors trying to understand traffic reports on the radio.

Well, sure; I grew up there, and it was the Edens, the Eisenhower, the
Dan Ryan, LSD, etc. No numbers there. (We vaguely knew that Lake Shore
Drive was Route 41, but nobody ever called it that.)


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On 1/24/2011 6:38 PM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:

As a former member of the Anti Digit Dialing League and fan of The
Prisoner (I am not a number...), I find the whole effort amusing.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,827416,00.html

You were a member of that then? I'm impressed, even if you were, of
course, ultimately unsuccessful. I miss the old exchange names from my
childhood (Evanston, Ill.): University 4 & 9, Davis 8, Greenleaf 5.

The most quaint aspect of phone numerology I remember is from when I
lived in Flagstaff. There were two old exchanges, 774 and 779. The phone
system, up until the time I left (1989), was set up so you could omit
the "77" and dial a 5-digit phone number; people there would tell you
"call me; my number is 4-8409". That's ancient history now, of course.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:14:51 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 1/24/2011 6:38 PM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:

As a former member of the Anti Digit Dialing League and fan of The
Prisoner (I am not a number...), I find the whole effort amusing.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,827416,00.html

You were a member of that then? I'm impressed, even if you were, of
course, ultimately unsuccessful.

Well, I was only 14 or 15 years old at the time, but already involved
in phone phreaking, pay phone hacking, toll evasion, theft of service,
theft of equipment, etc. If you dig deep, you'll find my name
mentioned in a few of the old 1960's stories.

I miss the old exchange names from my
childhood (Evanston, Ill.): University 4 & 9, Davis 8, Greenleaf 5.

In West Smog Angeles, ours was Crestview 7.
http://ourwebhome.com/TENP/Recommended.html

Mo
http://www.ourwebhome.com/TENP/TENproject.html
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Michael A. Terrell wrote in message
...

N_Cook wrote:

Ron D. wrote in message
...
heat sink goop

cars with both metric and english fasteners

bristol spline srews

Could you describe a "bristol spline screw" Google-images no help other
than
they are used on 30KV rated relays


Bristol was used in electronic equipment build by the US during
W.W.-II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench, almost half way down the page.

http://www.bristolwrench.com/ still makes them.

http://www.bristolwrench.com/spline.pdf

They are availible from a lot of industrial tool dealers.

A lot of people called them 'Spline Wrenches' instead of Bristol
Wrenches.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.


There is a UK tool supplier called Britool confusingly

Never realised there was so many spline types, Pentalobe etc

Protruding obstacle variants ? pipped is a much more succinct term

As a former member of the Anti Digit Dialing League and fan of The
Prisoner (I am not a number...), I find the whole effort amusing.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...827416,00.html

Stan Freberg wrote a song excoriating all-digit dialing, for which he was
criticized as reactionary.

However, a telephone "number" is still a number -- that has nothing to do
with you as a human being -- whether it has a word or number exchange.

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 00:02:44 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call
them that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as
"turnpikes" in some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even
know what an "interstate" is ...

The term "turnpike" is usually reserved for toll roads.

[snip]

BTW, everyone I know in LA doesn't use numbers at all, but names that
are meaningless to outsiders even if they have a map: "Ventura freeway,"
"Hollywood freeway," "Pasadena freeway," etc.

Don't forget the LA to Canada freeway which is what you take to get to
Flintridge. At least that's what the sign says: LA CANADA-FLINTRIDGE.

N_Cook wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote in message
...

N_Cook wrote:

Ron D. wrote in message
...
heat sink goop

cars with both metric and english fasteners

bristol spline srews

Could you describe a "bristol spline screw" Google-images no help other
than
they are used on 30KV rated relays


Bristol was used in electronic equipment build by the US during
W.W.-II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench, almost half way down the page.

http://www.bristolwrench.com/ still makes them.

http://www.bristolwrench.com/spline.pdf

They are availible from a lot of industrial tool dealers.

A lot of people called them 'Spline Wrenches' instead of Bristol
Wrenches.

There is a UK tool supplier called Britool confusingly

Never realised there was so many spline types, Pentalobe etc

Protruding obstacle variants ? pipped is a much more succinct term


Bristol has mostly been replaced by Torx.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

I will add

UK term : US term
spline key (specifically dovetail plan-form) : Bristol wrench
to my "translator"
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
any other contributions accepted

In article ,
Justine Thyme wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 00:02:44 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call
them that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as
"turnpikes" in some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even
know what an "interstate" is ...

The term "turnpike" is usually reserved for toll roads.


FWIW, I didn't write that which you attributed to me.