Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Canon A420 camera

I have a three year old Canon A420 which has been working perfectly
until last week. Now pictures are coming out grossly over-exposed,
although they look satisfactory on the LCD screen right up to the point
where the release button is pressed.

Moving from light to dark subjects, the system adjusts the image on the
screen to the changes in light level in a normal manner. Holding the
release button half way down 'freezes' a satisfactory picture, but then,
after pressing it the rest of the way, the stored result is whited-out.

The storage card appears to work normally and an external card reader
allows me to store and retrieve other images undamaged.

By deliberately choosing dark subject matter or something which needs
flash, I can force the correct exposure. The picture then appears to
have a fine horizontal line structure imposed on it.


I have re-set the camera by removing both power and memory batteriea,
and fitted new batteries, but it makes no difference.

The camera has not been dropped or exposed to damp, although it was
recently subjected to unusually cold conditions whilst taking snow
photographs. The rotary function selector switch became very stiff and
then eased-up suddenly just when the fault appeared - but I do not see
any obvious connection between the two events.

Does the switch have multiple contacts? Any other suggestions?

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 18:34:00 +0000, Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

I have a three year old Canon A420 which has been working perfectly
until last week. Now pictures are coming out grossly over-exposed,
although they look satisfactory on the LCD screen right up to the point
where the release button is pressed.

Moving from light to dark subjects, the system adjusts the image on the
screen to the changes in light level in a normal manner. Holding the
release button half way down 'freezes' a satisfactory picture, but then,
after pressing it the rest of the way, the stored result is whited-out.

The storage card appears to work normally and an external card reader
allows me to store and retrieve other images undamaged.

By deliberately choosing dark subject matter or something which needs
flash, I can force the correct exposure. The picture then appears to
have a fine horizontal line structure imposed on it.


I have re-set the camera by removing both power and memory batteriea,
and fitted new batteries, but it makes no difference.

The camera has not been dropped or exposed to damp, although it was
recently subjected to unusually cold conditions whilst taking snow
photographs. The rotary function selector switch became very stiff and
then eased-up suddenly just when the fault appeared - but I do not see
any obvious connection between the two events.

Does the switch have multiple contacts? Any other suggestions?


Find someone who can repair it for less than a new camera would cost.



--
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Default Canon A420 camera

Is this in all modes - Auto, Program, etc?



"Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message
valid.invalid...
I have a three year old Canon A420 which has been working perfectly
until last week. Now pictures are coming out grossly over-exposed,
although they look satisfactory on the LCD screen right up to the point
where the release button is pressed.

Moving from light to dark subjects, the system adjusts the image on the
screen to the changes in light level in a normal manner. Holding the
release button half way down 'freezes' a satisfactory picture, but then,
after pressing it the rest of the way, the stored result is whited-out.

The storage card appears to work normally and an external card reader
allows me to store and retrieve other images undamaged.

By deliberately choosing dark subject matter or something which needs
flash, I can force the correct exposure. The picture then appears to
have a fine horizontal line structure imposed on it.


I have re-set the camera by removing both power and memory batteriea,
and fitted new batteries, but it makes no difference.

The camera has not been dropped or exposed to damp, although it was
recently subjected to unusually cold conditions whilst taking snow
photographs. The rotary function selector switch became very stiff and
then eased-up suddenly just when the fault appeared - but I do not see
any obvious connection between the two events.

Does the switch have multiple contacts? Any other suggestions?

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk



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Default Canon A420 camera

John Keiser wrote:

Is this in all modes - Auto, Program, etc?


It seems to be.

Even using it with the manual exposure at its darkest setting gives
over-exposure and a coarse 'raster' effect.

I have now noticed that the display has a slight flicker which I don't
remember seeing before.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera


"Adrian Tuddenham"


I have re-set the camera by removing both power and memory batteriea,



** The camera has no memory battery.

Any other suggestions?



** Try resetting the camera to all defaults.

See P28 of the "Advanced Use Guide".



..... Phil



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Default Canon A420 camera


"Adrian Tuddenham"


I have now noticed that the display has a slight flicker which I don't
remember seeing before.



** The LCD display flickers when pre-viewing a scene lit by fluoro lamps or
other light source with mains frequency intensity variations.



..... Phil





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Default Canon A420 camera

who where wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 22:33:02 +0000, lid
(Adrian Tuddenham) wrote:

John Keiser wrote:

Is this in all modes - Auto, Program, etc?


It seems to be.

Even using it with the manual exposure at its darkest setting gives
over-exposure and a coarse 'raster' effect.


Possibly the sudden freeing up of the mode switch is the clue. It may
be "detached" and stuck in an inappropriate mode.


It seems to switch between modes normally, so at least one section of
the switch is working - but I agree it does seem the first place to
look.

I have found two other references on the Web from people who have
experienced the same fault - but neither of them appeared to have found
a solution.

Basically with the cost of these device dropping continuously you will
find - as we have - that repair is not a cost-effective alternative to
replacement. That said, you have littlle to lose by disassembling it
(not trivial) and exploring the internals with special attention to
the mode switch.


That's going to be my first plan of action. I notice there is a camera
repair shop in London which claims to do economically-priced repairs on
this model.

My problem with buying a new camera is that I may not be able to get a
suitable card reader which works with my current Mac OS 8.6 system - and
I cannot change the OS because all my business software runs on it.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk


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Default Canon A420 camera

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
My problem with buying a new camera is that I may not be able to get a
suitable card reader which works with my current Mac OS 8.6 system - and
I cannot change the OS because all my business software runs on it.


Can you be more specific? That would place it as a late Power Mac, or an early
G3.

This is going to become more and more of a problem, as your 10 year old plus
computer starts to fail and parts are no longer available. Besides keeping
lots of backups, you should investigate either alternate hardware or spares.

I was given a beige G3 the other day, cleaned it up and gave it to a friend
who uses one for his daily writing. His is starting to fail and now he has a
"hot spare". The cost was zero to him, and the owner was glad to see it not
end up in the recycle bin.

Cost of full refurbishement, which I did not do, would have been a $10
battery, and a new(er) floppy drive. Most just need to be taken apart, cleaned
and lubricated, but this one has an electrical problem too, so I would have
to get one from another less functional computer.

I do this as a "good deed" and I'm sure you could find someone who would be
able to help you in your area.

Note that there is a program called SheepShaver that will run on a modern
Mac and let you boot MacOS in a "virtual machine". You can boot your OS 8.6
under it and run your software.

While you are asking around for spares, you may want to ask about that too.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
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Default Canon A420 camera

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
My problem with buying a new camera is that I may not be able to get a
suitable card reader which works with my current Mac OS 8.6 system - and
I cannot change the OS because all my business software runs on it.


Can you be more specific? That would place it as a late Power Mac, or an early
G3.


The system runs on a collection of beige G3s linked by Appletalk. The
main business workhorse is ClarisWorks 4.

This is going to become more and more of a problem, as your 10 year old plus
computer starts to fail and parts are no longer available. Besides keeping
lots of backups, you should investigate either alternate hardware or spares.


I have a shed full of spares and a lot of backup drives.


Cost of full refurbishement, which I did not do, would have been a $10
battery, and a new(er) floppy drive.


You can use a stack of much cheaper coin cells if you machine up a brass
slug to fill the remaining space in the battery holder. These G3s have
ATA drives as well as the original SCSI ones. so replacements are no
problem.


Note that there is a program called SheepShaver that will run on a modern
Mac and let you boot MacOS in a "virtual machine". You can boot your OS 8.6
under it and run your software.


I do have an Intel iMac which would take Sheepshaver, but I have been
told it still wouldn't allow me too use Pub&Sub, which is what links all
my sales software together. No only that, but the iMac won't work on an
Appletalk network, in the past I have had to transfer files to it using
FTP. It sits in a corner, switched off and effectively useless, while
the G3s do most of the work.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera

Phil Allison wrote:

"Adrian Tuddenham"


I have re-set the camera by removing both power and memory batteriea,



** The camera has no memory battery.


This one does, it is a 1220 coin cell in a little plastic clip at the
opposite end from the main battery door.


Any other suggestions?



** Try resetting the camera to all defaults.


Tried it - no difference.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera


"Adrian Tuddenham"


** The advice for your problem is that the shutter is stuck open causing
over exposure on bright subjects.



..... Phil




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Default Canon A420 camera

On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 11:28:40 +0000, lid
(Adrian Tuddenham) wrote:

who where wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 22:33:02 +0000,
lid
(Adrian Tuddenham) wrote:

John Keiser wrote:

Is this in all modes - Auto, Program, etc?

It seems to be.

Even using it with the manual exposure at its darkest setting gives
over-exposure and a coarse 'raster' effect.


Possibly the sudden freeing up of the mode switch is the clue. It may
be "detached" and stuck in an inappropriate mode.


It seems to switch between modes normally, so at least one section of
the switch is working - but I agree it does seem the first place to
look.

I have found two other references on the Web from people who have
experienced the same fault - but neither of them appeared to have found
a solution.

Basically with the cost of these device dropping continuously you will
find - as we have - that repair is not a cost-effective alternative to
replacement. That said, you have littlle to lose by disassembling it
(not trivial) and exploring the internals with special attention to
the mode switch.


That's going to be my first plan of action. I notice there is a camera
repair shop in London which claims to do economically-priced repairs on
this model.


Good luck with that (sincerely). You may also be able to locate a
pre-loved A420/430 for the same sort of cost.

My problem with buying a new camera is that I may not be able to get a
suitable card reader which works with my current Mac OS 8.6 system - and
I cannot change the OS because all my business software runs on it.


SD/MMC? Close to standard for very many cameras.

We have a couple of Canons here (A200 and A540), chosen for quick
point-n-shoot duty. They were selected because of key features on my
shopping list - AA batteries, macro, USB interfacing, etc etc - if you
start the hunt for a replacement with a "must-have" feature list
you'll surely have some success. (We don't read the card to retrieve
pics, we use ZB and the USB posts only).
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Default Canon A420 camera


"Adrian Tuddenham"

** The camera has no memory battery.


This one does, it is a 1220 coin cell in a little plastic clip at the
opposite end from the main battery door.



** Then the camera was made prior to 2006.

Musta been old stock when you bought it.


.... Phil





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Default Canon A420 camera

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:00:03 +0800, who where wrote:

(snip)
(We don't read the card to retrieve
pics, we use ZB and the USB posts only).


posts - ports
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Default Canon A420 camera

who where wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 11:28:40 +0000, lid
(Adrian Tuddenham) wrote:


...I notice there is a camera
repair shop in London which claims to do economically-priced repairs on
this model.


Good luck with that (sincerely). You may also be able to locate a
pre-loved A420/430 for the same sort of cost.


I'll let you know how I get on.

My problem with buying a new camera is that I may not be able to get a
suitable card reader which works with my current Mac OS 8.6 system - and
I cannot change the OS because all my business software runs on it.


SD/MMC? Close to standard for very many cameras.

We have a couple of Canons here (A200 and A540), chosen for quick
point-n-shoot duty. They were selected because of key features on my
shopping list - AA batteries, macro, USB interfacing, etc etc - if you
start the hunt for a replacement with a "must-have" feature list
you'll surely have some success. (We don't read the card to retrieve
pics, we use ZB and the USB ports only).


That was a problem I had with the A420, the Mac could see the USB port
on the camera but the camera wouldn't allow access to the data without
its own software running on the Mac OS - and the drivers supplied by
Canon didn't work on OS 8.6

I solved the problem with a cheap USB card reader.

A friend has recently bought a card reader to use with her Sony camera
on Mac OS 8.6 and discovered theat it won't work because they now put
the reader software in the computer, not in the reader and ...guess
what... the card software won't run on OS 8.6 !

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
A friend has recently bought a card reader to use with her Sony camera
on Mac OS 8.6 and discovered theat it won't work because they now put
the reader software in the computer, not in the reader and ...guess
what... the card software won't run on OS 8.6 !


This may be of interest to you:

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1238?viewlocale=en_US

It was the last USB update that will run on MacOS 8.6 and it states what will
and will not work.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.


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Default Canon A420 camera

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:41:53 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

"Adrian Tuddenham"


** The advice for your problem is that the shutter is stuck open causing
over exposure on bright subjects.


Only if it had a shutter.




--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
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Default Canon A420 camera

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
A friend has recently bought a card reader to use with her Sony camera
on Mac OS 8.6 and discovered theat it won't work because they now put
the reader software in the computer, not in the reader and ...guess
what... the card software won't run on OS 8.6 !


This may be of interest to you:

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1238?viewlocale=en_US

It was the last USB update that will run on MacOS 8.6 and it states what will
and will not work.


Thanks, I have installed it on my machine and will send a copy to the
friend who was having trouble with the card reader. I suspect the
problem will still be that her card reader needs its own software in the
computer.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera

Phil Allison wrote:

"Adrian Tuddenham"

** The camera has no memory battery.


This one does, it is a 1220 coin cell in a little plastic clip at the
opposite end from the main battery door.



** Then the camera was made prior to 2006.

Musta been old stock when you bought it.


It was - but the price was right.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera

Phil Allison wrote:

"Adrian Tuddenham"


** The advice for your problem is that the shutter is stuck open causing
over exposure on bright subjects.


That seems to be the most likely cause. I have found a firm that will
repair it (with a guarantee) for £72, so that is my least-bad option.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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Default Canon A420 camera


"Meathead Blowhard"

** The advice for your problem is that the shutter is stuck open causing
over exposure on bright subjects.


Only if it had a shutter.



** **** off - IMBECILE !!!!!!!!!!






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Default Canon A420 camera


"Adrian Tuddenham"
Phil Allison


** The camera has no memory battery.

This one does, it is a 1220 coin cell in a little plastic clip at the
opposite end from the main battery door.



** Then the camera was made prior to 2006.

Musta been old stock when you bought it.


It was - but the price was right.



** So it is NOT a 3 year old camera at all but may be up to 13 years old.

Just that YOU have owned it for 3 years.



..... Phil





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Default Canon A420 camera


"Adrian Tuddenham"

** The advice for your problem is that the shutter is stuck open causing
over exposure on bright subjects.


That seems to be the most likely cause. I have found a firm that will
repair it (with a guarantee) for £72, so that is my least-bad option.



** Seeing as cold temp caused the problem - try warming the camera ( to
say 40C with warm air ) and operating the shutter over and over and tapping
on the lens assembly.

Cost you nothing and you got nothing to lose.


...... Phil


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Default Canon A420 camera

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:56:46 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

"Meathead Blowhard"

** The advice for your problem is that the shutter is stuck open
causing over exposure on bright subjects.


Only if it had a shutter.



** **** off - IMBECILE !!!!!!!!!!


Is that OOOPSIE! in Phil-Speak?



--
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Default Canon A420 camera

Geo wrote:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 15:28:03 +0000, lid
(Adrian Tuddenham) wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"Adrian Tuddenham"


** The advice for your problem is that the shutter is stuck open
causing over exposure on bright subjects.


That seems to be the most likely cause. I have found a firm that will
repair it (with a guarantee) for £72, so that is my least-bad option.


Have you looked at the price and spec of a Canon replacement? e.g:-
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Prod...tal_Camera/Pow
erShot/PowerShot_A495/


That does look pretty good as long as I can get the pictures out of it.

It says it will take SD cards, so my external reader might work with it.
(I seem to remember some memory card size limitation on either the
reader or the camera, can't remember which.)



-- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to
reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk


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Default Canon A420 camera


"Geo"

Have you looked at the price and spec of a Canon replacement?
e.g:-
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_Camera/PowerShot/PowerShot_A495/



** The A495 is no replacement for the A420 - since it completely lacks an
optical viewfinder.

The A420 has one with inbuilt zoom that actually tracks the main lens -
without an optical viewfinder, such cameras become near useless in daylight
because the LCD screen is washed out.

I have owned an A430 ( near identical to the A420 ) for the last 4 years.




.... Phil


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Default Canon A420 camera

On 2 ene, 19:34, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
I have a three year old Canon A420 which has been working perfectly
until last week. *Now pictures are coming out grossly over-exposed,
although they look satisfactory on the LCD screen right up to the point
where the release button is pressed. *

Moving from light to dark subjects, the system adjusts the image on the
screen to the changes in light level in a normal manner. *Holding the
release button half way down 'freezes' a satisfactory picture, but then,
after pressing it the rest of the way, the stored result is whited-out.

By deliberately choosing dark subject matter or something which needs
flash, I can force the correct exposure. *The picture then appears to
have a fine horizontal line structure imposed on it.


Given all your described sympthoms I would say it is the CCD sensor
starting to fail. It is showing some dark rows across the pictures,
typical of problems with these sensors. These dark rows make the
camera think the picture is darker than it is and increases exposure
to compensate. When you see the picture on its LCD live it is not
analyzing all the rows but a small fraction and these failing rows
have no impact at all, so it appears to work properly. But when you
take the photo it processes all the information.

I think the sensor will have to be replaced (if worth) but meanwhile
you can lower the exposure manually as you did as a workaround.
Consider also that overexposed photos may be corrected to some degree
with an editing program that can correct brightness/contrast. I get
quite good results with MS Office photo editor, my camera has a
tendency to take pictures too dark mainly under artificial light and I
fix some of them before printing.

Sorry if it sounds like bad news.
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Default Canon A420 camera


"Jeroni Paul is a TROLL"



Given all your described sympthoms I would say it is the CCD sensor
starting to fail.


** Shame how it works fine when viewing on the LCD display.


..... Phil



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Default Canon A420 camera

Jeroni Paul wrote:

On 2 ene, 19:34, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
I have a three year old Canon A420 which has been working perfectly
until last week. *Now pictures are coming out grossly over-exposed,
although they look satisfactory on the LCD screen right up to the point
where the release button is pressed. *

Moving from light to dark subjects, the system adjusts the image on the
screen to the changes in light level in a normal manner. *Holding the
release button half way down 'freezes' a satisfactory picture, but then,
after pressing it the rest of the way, the stored result is whited-out.

By deliberately choosing dark subject matter or something which needs
flash, I can force the correct exposure. *The picture then appears to
have a fine horizontal line structure imposed on it.


Given all your described sympthoms I would say it is the CCD sensor
starting to fail. It is showing some dark rows across the pictures,
typical of problems with these sensors. These dark rows make the
camera think the picture is darker than it is and increases exposure
to compensate. When you see the picture on its LCD live it is not
analyzing all the rows but a small fraction and these failing rows
have no impact at all, so it appears to work properly. But when you
take the photo it processes all the information.


That sounds quite possible - especially as the sensor had been exposed
to very cold conditions for the first time and I now discover that
sensor faults were not unknown in early versions of this model.

I think the sensor will have to be replaced (if worth) but meanwhile
you can lower the exposure manually as you did as a workaround.


I've sent it away for repair and the quote was for a 'replacement lens
unit' (which presumably includes the sensor).

Consider also that overexposed photos may be corrected to some degree
with an editing program that can correct brightness/contrast. I get
quite good results with MS Office photo editor, my camera has a
tendency to take pictures too dark mainly under artificial light and I
fix some of them before printing.


Most pictures were so severely 'crushed' that no recovery was possible -
I did manage to use one but it was a struggle.



--
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(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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