http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_3573.jpg

A neighbour has dropped in with his discharged and dead "RAC Portable
Power Station and Engine Starter" which he obtained without the
necessary DC charger. The starter is a dayglo orange heavy thing with a
handle and says it can crank 400 Amps.

Anyway, written on the front of the DC input socket, it claims it needs
16V - so I've got it charging up of one of my laboratory supplies set at
that.

Initially connecting it up, it was was drawing about 100mA. After 5
hours it's now drawing 400mA. Must have some 'inteligence' in it.

So I'd guess a 16V 500mA adaptor (or thereabouts) would be a suitable
replacement. But to check if anyone has one of these, could ye check
what's written on the mains adaptor? And can find for reference the user
instructions?

Thanks.

--
Adrian C

In article ,
Adrian C wrote:
Anyway, written on the front of the DC input socket, it claims it needs
16V - so I've got it charging up of one of my laboratory supplies set at
that.

Initially connecting it up, it was was drawing about 100mA. After 5
hours it's now drawing 400mA. Must have some 'inteligence' in it.

If the internal lead acid battery was very flat, this is what happens. The
internal resistance goes high. As it charges, it comes down to where it
should be. FWIW the SLAs used on these won't supply starting current very
often. Perhaps a half dozen times or so before they no longer manage the
full amount. But can limp on as just a portable 12v DC supply for quite
some time.

So I'd guess a 16V 500mA adaptor (or thereabouts) would be a suitable
replacement. But to check if anyone has one of these, could ye check
what's written on the mains adaptor? And can find for reference the user
instructions?

My Lidl one has a 1000 mA wall wart. I can look at its spec if you want.

--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
So I'd guess a 16V 500mA adaptor (or thereabouts) would be a suitable
replacement. But to check if anyone has one of these, could ye check
what's written on the mains adaptor? And can find for reference the
user instructions?

My Lidl one has a 1000 mA wall wart. I can look at its spec if you want.

It's actually marked 12 volt DC 1000mA. So must be a very nominal 12
volts. ;-)

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/12/2010 17:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Dave Plowman wrote:
So I'd guess a 16V 500mA adaptor (or thereabouts) would be a suitable
replacement. But to check if anyone has one of these, could ye check
what's written on the mains adaptor? And can find for reference the
user instructions?

My Lidl one has a 1000 mA wall wart. I can look at its spec if you want.

It's actually marked 12 volt DC 1000mA. So must be a very nominal 12
volts. ;-)


Thanks for checking.

Something unregulated rated at anything past 12V rated at an amp or more
might just fit the task, and be easier to find in the junk pile than
something unregulated and small with specifically 16V stamped on it.

He'll go for that :-)

--
Adrian C

Adrian C has brought this to us :
Thanks for checking.

Something unregulated rated at anything past 12V rated at an amp or more
might just fit the task, and be easier to find in the junk pile than
something unregulated and small with specifically 16V stamped on it.

12v or even 13.5v will not put a charge into a 12v lead acid battery,
it needs to be in the range 13.8 to 14.2v

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 02/12/2010 18:52, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Adrian C has brought this to us :
Thanks for checking.

Something unregulated rated at anything past 12V rated at an amp or
more might just fit the task, and be easier to find in the junk pile
than something unregulated and small with specifically 16V stamped on it.

12v or even 13.5v will not put a charge into a 12v lead acid battery, it
needs to be in the range 13.8 to 14.2v


A biggish transformer marked 12v lightly loaded will be supplying that
and more easily. Got no worries about that (and as I said easier for me
to find).

Cheers

--
Adrian

Adrian C expressed precisely :
Initially connecting it up, it was was drawing about 100mA. After 5 hours
it's now drawing 400mA. Must have some 'inteligence' in it.

That is the usual behaviour of a completely flat lead acid battery,
rather than any built in intelligence. My (not RAC) unit has an
automatic charger built in, which cuts it off once the fully charged
voltage is reached, but yours might not do that (look for an LED marked
charged)- so it might need to be carefully matched in voltage output.
It lights up as soon as powered, then goes out once fully charged and
stays out until powed down and up again.

It's charger suggests it is 18v 0.75amp DC. If yours lacks the charge
control built in, you need a voltage controlled PSU of around 13.8 to
14.2v.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Adrian C wrote:


http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_3573.jpg

A neighbour has dropped in with his discharged and dead "RAC Portable
Power Station and Engine Starter" which he obtained without the
necessary DC charger. The starter is a dayglo orange heavy thing with a
handle and says it can crank 400 Amps.

Anyway, written on the front of the DC input socket, it claims it needs
16V - so I've got it charging up of one of my laboratory supplies set at
that.

Initially connecting it up, it was was drawing about 100mA. After 5
hours it's now drawing 400mA. Must have some 'inteligence' in it.

So I'd guess a 16V 500mA adaptor (or thereabouts) would be a suitable
replacement. But to check if anyone has one of these, could ye check
what's written on the mains adaptor? And can find for reference the user
instructions?

Thanks.

These days battery chargers are very sophisticated things in how they
treat batteries. If your friend has more than one battery to care for,
an Optimate or Accumate charger might be a good idea, but they aren't
cheap.

TF

In article ,
Terry Fields wrote:
These days battery chargers are very sophisticated things in how they
treat batteries. If your friend has more than one battery to care for,
an Optimate or Accumate charger might be a good idea, but they aren't
cheap.

No need to pay silly prices for a sophisticated battery charger. Lidl and
Aldi in the UK both do similar ones for about 14 gbp. They pulse charge a
flat battery, change to a normal charge, then switch to a maintenance one.
Get the same thing with a 'name' on it and you'll pay four times as much.

--
*They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Terry Fields wrote:
These days battery chargers are very sophisticated things in how they
treat batteries. If your friend has more than one battery to care for,
an Optimate or Accumate charger might be a good idea, but they aren't
cheap.

No need to pay silly prices for a sophisticated battery charger. Lidl and
Aldi in the UK both do similar ones for about 14 gbp. They pulse charge a
flat battery, change to a normal charge, then switch to a maintenance one.
Get the same thing with a 'name' on it and you'll pay four times as much.


Or get a decent RC charger for silly money

http://www.alwayshobbies.com/Boats/Radio-Control-Equipment/Cells$1Chargers/Chargers/Logic-Fusion-NX81-Variable-Output-AC-Delta-Peak-Charger.ice

variable rate 4-8 cells and hardly bank breaking.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Terry Fields wrote:

These days battery chargers are very sophisticated things in how they
treat batteries. If your friend has more than one battery to care for,
an Optimate or Accumate charger might be a good idea, but they aren't
cheap.

No need to pay silly prices for a sophisticated battery charger. Lidl and
Aldi in the UK both do similar ones for about 14 gbp. They pulse charge a
flat battery, change to a normal charge, then switch to a maintenance one.
Get the same thing with a 'name' on it and you'll pay four times as much.

As the battery in the appliance seemed to be a SLA, getting maximum
life out of it demands using an appropriate charger rather than a
random wall-wart. I use an Accumate to keep both a SLA and a
motorcycle battery in good order - I don't have any experience of the
Lidl or Aldi chargers.

TF

In article ,
Terry Fields wrote:
No need to pay silly prices for a sophisticated battery charger. Lidl
and Aldi in the UK both do similar ones for about 14 gbp. They pulse
charge a flat battery, change to a normal charge, then switch to a
maintenance one. Get the same thing with a 'name' on it and you'll pay
four times as much.

As the battery in the appliance seemed to be a SLA, getting maximum life
out of it demands using an appropriate charger rather than a random
wall-wart.

Of course. True SLA (gel) should be charged at constant voltage. They're
not so tolerant as car batteries in this respect.

I use an Accumate to keep both a SLA and a motorcycle battery
in good order - I don't have any experience of the Lidl or Aldi chargers.

These things tend to have different brand names depending on who sells
them - but most are simply a wall wart with a few pennies of extra
components. Usually not worth the premium price.

--
*I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 3 Dec,
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Terry Fields wrote:
No need to pay silly prices for a sophisticated battery charger. Lidl
and Aldi in the UK both do similar ones for about 14 gbp. They pulse
charge a flat battery, change to a normal charge, then switch to a
maintenance one. Get the same thing with a 'name' on it and you'll pay
four times as much.

As the battery in the appliance seemed to be a SLA, getting maximum life
out of it demands using an appropriate charger rather than a random
wall-wart.

Of course. True SLA (gel) should be charged at constant voltage. They're
not so tolerant as car batteries in this respect.

I use an Accumate to keep both a SLA and a motorcycle battery
in good order - I don't have any experience of the Lidl or Aldi chargers.

These things tend to have different brand names depending on who sells
them - but most are simply a wall wart with a few pennies of extra
components. Usually not worth the premium price.

My Aldi power station seems to use a basic unstabilised wall wart. However,
it seems to charge up to a reasonable voltage, then cease charging (or go to
a very low current) I've been using it to power some electronics, and I've
been monitoring its voltage. It seems to cut out somewhere between 13.5 and
14 volts.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On Dec 3, 12:07*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Terry Fields wrote:

These days battery chargers are very sophisticated things in how they
treat batteries. If your friend has more than one battery to care for,
an Optimate or Accumate charger might be a good idea, but they aren't
cheap.

No need to pay silly prices for a sophisticated battery charger. Lidl and
Aldi in the UK both do similar ones for about 14 gbp. They pulse charge a
flat battery, change to a normal charge, then switch to a maintenance one..
Get the same thing with a 'name' on it and you'll pay four times as much.

--
*They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken. *

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Lidl /Aldi offerings are good there is no doubt, but they are
never there when you want them !! You have to be on their mailing
list and make a judgement to buy when they are available - and then
they sit around for ages ..... until that magic moment and hey presto
they do the job. Just been there this afternoon to top up a spare car
battery just in case, using one of these I bought probably a year
ago. Serious cold now in Edinburgh and I can see some sluggish
starting coming up.

In article
,
robgraham wrote:
No need to pay silly prices for a sophisticated battery charger. Lidl
and Aldi in the UK both do similar ones for about 14 gbp. They pulse
charge a flat battery, change to a normal charge, then switch to a
maintenance one. Get the same thing with a 'name' on it and you'll pay
four times as much.


The Lidl /Aldi offerings are good there is no doubt, but they are
never there when you want them !! You have to be on their mailing
list and make a judgement to buy when they are available - and then
they sit around for ages ..... until that magic moment and hey presto
they do the job. Just been there this afternoon to top up a spare car
battery just in case, using one of these I bought probably a year
ago. Serious cold now in Edinburgh and I can see some sluggish
starting coming up.

They're cheap enough to build into the car. I've done this on my
'classic'. With a waterproof mains connector under the rear bumper.

I get emails from both Aldi and Lidl showing their offers of the week.
With some of them you have to get there early.

--
*Certain frogs can be frozen solid, then thawed, and survive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/12/2010 17:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I get emails from both Aldi and Lidl showing their offers of the week.
With some of them you have to get there early.


That's because bloody market traders are queuing at the door come
opening time to snag all the best stuff!

Ron

I just got a similar unit about a week ago, and you won't likely know what's
inside until you open the case.

The Schumacher Instant Power 400 Peak Amps model IP-55 has a 12V 5Ah battery
and an internal charging circuit (AC transformer, circuit board, LEDs
red-yel-grn).

On the back of the unit, there is a flip-up set of (2) blades that fit a
standard NEMA 120VAC extension cord female connector. Any AC cord is just
connected to the 2 blades for charging.
The manual states that an optional 12V cord is available for charging from a
car lighter-socket "while driving" (inserted into the front DC power outlet
socket), which won't actually work well unless connected "while driving"
while the vehicle alternator is operating and the output voltage is about
13.8-14.2V.
Cable p/n 38-99-001564, which doesn't seem to exist.. not found on their
site or by Goog search.
A warning cautions that the unit's internal charge limiting circuit is not
applied when the adapter cord is in use, and the charge-level LEDs aren't
functional/reliable, so.. the user needs to disconnect the adapter cord and
check the level of charge frequently when using the charging cord, also
never used in excess of 4 hours, never unattended - risk of explosion or
fire, and disconnected when the engine is not running.

The unit's internal battery is connected directly to the big, external
battery terminal clamps, so one needs to avoid contacting the clamps to
anything conductive, or each other.
The front DC power outlet is connected directly to the internal battery,
with a 15A self-resetting circuit breaker in series.

Charging thru the front power outlet socket on these types of power-packs
should only be performed by use of an actual smart/automatic battery
charger.. one that will charge at a low rate (~1A maximum for a 5Ah battery
or C/0.2 rate) and capable of automatically stopping the charge cycle when a
fully charged state is attained.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Adrian C" wrote in message
...

http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_3573.jpg

A neighbour has dropped in with his discharged and dead "RAC Portable
Power Station and Engine Starter" which he obtained without the necessary
DC charger. The starter is a dayglo orange heavy thing with a handle and
says it can crank 400 Amps.

Anyway, written on the front of the DC input socket, it claims it needs
16V - so I've got it charging up of one of my laboratory supplies set at
that.

Initially connecting it up, it was was drawing about 100mA. After 5 hours
it's now drawing 400mA. Must have some 'inteligence' in it.

So I'd guess a 16V 500mA adaptor (or thereabouts) would be a suitable
replacement. But to check if anyone has one of these, could ye check
what's written on the mains adaptor? And can find for reference the user
instructions?

Thanks.

--
Adrian C

On Dec 2, 10:01*am, Adrian C wrote:
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_3573.jpg

A neighbour has dropped in with his discharged and dead "RAC Portable
Power Station and Engine Starter" which he obtained without the
necessary DC charger. The starter is a dayglo orange heavy thing with a
handle and says it can crank 400 Amps.

Anyway, written on the front of the DC input socket, it claims it needs
16V - so I've got it charging up of one of my laboratory supplies set at
that.

Initially connecting it up, it was was drawing about 100mA. After 5
hours it's now drawing 400mA. Must have some 'inteligence' in it.

So I'd guess a 16V 500mA adaptor (or thereabouts) would be a suitable
replacement. But to check if anyone has one of these, could ye check
what's written on the mains adaptor? And can find for reference the user
instructions?


My Silverline 38Ah Jump starter -- and yes, unlike an awful lot of
these things, it actually works and will start a 2.5 litre diesel with
a flat battery -- has a charger that's marked 15v 500mA.

On 12/2/2010 2:01 AM Adrian C spake thus:

http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_3573.jpg

A neighbour has dropped in with his discharged and dead "RAC Portable
Power Station and Engine Starter" which he obtained without the
necessary DC charger. The starter is a dayglo orange heavy thing with a
handle and says it can crank 400 Amps.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet in this thread, but aren't
those claims for how much current these things will deliver a lot of BS?

I first saw one of these power units a couple weeks ago, when my
neighbor used his to get my van started after he borrowed it and the
battery started going dead. He used it twice, successfully, to
jump-start my half-dead battery. So they do work, apparently. But his
was similarly marked (I think 300 amps). Is there any way that such a
small lead-acid battery could deliver this much juice? I'm skeptical.


--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet in this thread, but aren't
those claims for how much current these things will deliver a lot of BS?

I first saw one of these power units a couple weeks ago, when my
neighbor used his to get my van started after he borrowed it and the
battery started going dead. He used it twice, successfully, to
jump-start my half-dead battery. So they do work, apparently. But his
was similarly marked (I think 300 amps). Is there any way that such a
small lead-acid battery could deliver this much juice? I'm skeptical.

They vary quite a bit in price. At the cheaper end I've found they will
deliver enough current (when new) to start a car with a flat battery - but
no more than a handful of times. No lead acid battery likes having what is
efficitively (at that size) a dead short across it. And as is common with
so many of these things the battery costs more to replace than the entire
unit.

The one I have is many years old. It won't deliver enough current to start
a car, but still is ok as a self contained compressor for the tyres. And
as a convenient portable 12 volt source for testing things - it will still
supply much more current than my bench PS. And only cost 20 quid...

--
*He loves nature in spite of what it did to him.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/5/2010 2:49 AM Dave Plowman (News) spake thus:

In article , David
Nebenzahl wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet in this thread, but
aren't those claims for how much current these things will deliver
a lot of BS?

I first saw one of these power units a couple weeks ago, when my
neighbor used his to get my van started after he borrowed it and the
battery started going dead. He used it twice, successfully, to
jump-start my half-dead battery. So they do work, apparently. But his
was similarly marked (I think 300 amps). Is there any way that such a
small lead-acid battery could deliver this much juice? I'm skeptical.

They vary quite a bit in price. At the cheaper end I've found they will
deliver enough current (when new) to start a car with a flat battery - but
no more than a handful of times.

So how much current do you think they're actually capable of
delivering--say with the little battery fairly fresh and fully charged?


--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 12/5/2010 2:49 AM Dave Plowman (News) spake thus:

In article , David
Nebenzahl wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet in this thread, but
aren't those claims for how much current these things will deliver
a lot of BS?

I first saw one of these power units a couple weeks ago, when my
neighbor used his to get my van started after he borrowed it and the
battery started going dead. He used it twice, successfully, to
jump-start my half-dead battery. So they do work, apparently. But his
was similarly marked (I think 300 amps). Is there any way that such a
small lead-acid battery could deliver this much juice? I'm skeptical.

They vary quite a bit in price. At the cheaper end I've found they will
deliver enough current (when new) to start a car with a flat battery - but
no more than a handful of times.

So how much current do you think they're actually capable of
delivering--say with the little battery fairly fresh and fully charged?


Too many variables. What is the amp hour rating of the battery?
What is the internal resistance of the switch? The resistance of the
cables? The resistance of the starter motor? The temperature? How
clean are the battery clamps, and what is the resistance of the battery
cables? The resistance of the starter solenoid?


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
So how much current do you think they're actually capable of
delivering--say with the little battery fairly fresh and fully charged?


Too many variables. What is the amp hour rating of the battery?

Tiny in automotive terms.

What is the internal resistance of the switch?

Dunno

The resistance of the
cables?

Mine has 16mm² cables. The resistance of the alligator clamps is more
likely the limiting factor.

The resistance of the starter motor? The temperature? How
clean are the battery clamps, and what is the resistance of the battery
cables? The resistance of the starter solenoid?

Non of which matters since the power pack makers claim a maximum output.

--
*When you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.