Well, I was bored and curious...so if you've been wondering what's
inside this (or probably almost any other) HD Radio tuner, here it is:

(warning: the following link contains large quantities of pictures and
is therefore not friendly to those who have bandwidth caps or are
charged on a "quantity of data transferred" basis)

http://greyghost.mooo.com/hdtunetakeapart/

It's not quite finished yet, some items need more explanation. I haven't
verified the clock rate of the DSP but believe it to be correct. I also
need to upload the larger photos and add the navigation links to the
page. But for those who are curious, it ought to do for now.

No tuners were harmed in the making of this page or in the exploration.
By the way, I have been completely unimpressed by the performance of
this tuner. (I'm so glad I paid nowhere near the retail price!) I'd
recommend you look at something else if you want to listen to HD radio.

William

William R. Walsh m wrote:

No tuners were harmed in the making of this page or in the exploration.
By the way, I have been completely unimpressed by the performance of
this tuner. (I'm so glad I paid nowhere near the retail price!) I'd
recommend you look at something else if you want to listen to HD radio.

William

My local BB has sold the tuner for $70 compared to the normal $99.
I have been thinking of buying one for some time, what are your
complaints and do you have a recommendation for a better unit?

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:36:23 -0600, "William R. Walsh"
mwrote:

Well, I was bored and curious...so if you've been wondering what's
inside this (or probably almost any other) HD Radio tuner, here it is:

(warning: the following link contains large quantities of pictures and
is therefore not friendly to those who have bandwidth caps or are
charged on a "quantity of data transferred" basis)

http://greyghost.mooo.com/hdtunetakeapart/

It's not quite finished yet, some items need more explanation. I haven't
verified the clock rate of the DSP but believe it to be correct. I also
need to upload the larger photos and add the navigation links to the
page. But for those who are curious, it ought to do for now.

No tuners were harmed in the making of this page or in the exploration.
By the way, I have been completely unimpressed by the performance of
this tuner. (I'm so glad I paid nowhere near the retail price!) I'd
recommend you look at something else if you want to listen to HD radio.

William

What is HD radio?

To stupid to use Google, little man?

Hi!

What is HD radio?

HD Radio is the digital radio broadcast standard in the US. It's a
development from a company known as iBiquity. iBiquity primarily
functions as a licensor of the technology to others.

HD Radio broadcasts are delivered alongside the current analog AM or FM
broadcasts, and on the same frequencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio

Outside of the US, other methods are used, such as Digital Audio
Broadcasting (DAB) or Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM).

William

Hi!

My local BB has sold the tuner for $70 compared to the
normal $99.

I think they might be coming to the realization that perhaps the units
aren't selling all that well. In my travels to Best Buy, I've never seen
anyone buying one, nor have I seen anyone looking at the demonstrator
unit on the shelf.

I bought mine from a liquidator for $30 as a scratch and dent item. It
has a few scratches and one minor dent, so I was not disappointed. ;-)

I have been thinking of buying one for some time, what
are your complaints and do you have a recommendation for
a better unit?

It's (very) cheaply made. I also wrote a product review which I will be
posting this afternoon. I'll post a link when I do.

But for now, and outside of the cheapness, I'd have to say that its
tuner section is deaf in terms of sensitivity. It can't even pick up
analog stations that numerous other radios in the vicinity (including a
cheap boombox and a clock radio) had no problem receiving.

All of these stations are no more than 30-35 miles from my location, and
many are closer. I moved my testing upstairs to see if it would produce
any improvement and it did not.

Later, when I moved it to its final location, I noticed that whenever
the NS-HDTUNE was powered, it caused a lot of interference with the FM
tuner on the stereo receiver I intended to use it with. If that's the
way things are, I'll just use the tuner in the receiver. It's a much
better tuner anyway.

I was using a Radio Shack powered AM/FM indoor antenna with the unit,
and that same antenna works well with assorted stereo receivers.

Sony is the only other company I know to be offering a standalone HD
Radio tuner. I have not tried theirs yet, as I haven't seen it offered
for sale other than online.

William

Hi!

So you pay 100 bucks for a receiver and get to listen
to the same commercial broadcast but now in near CD
quality sound?

I guess you could say that, but I'm not sure that a good analog FM
signal wouldn't already qualify as "near CD quality" sound...especially
on a good tuner.

I wanted to see what HD Radio was about (especially the subchannels),
but I wasn't about to pay any $100 to do so! After looking inside, I'm
convinced that someone is doing a pretty good job at inflating the price!

Being one that listens to music on the road I got really
disgusted with the ever increasing amount of commercials.

Me too. And it's hard to find what I want to hear on the radio anyway.
Stations seem so mercurial in their format changes any more...what
format was on the radio an hour ago might not be there later...

My solution has been to use an iPod, plugged into a cassette shell
adapter or stereo miniplug to RCA connector cable. It's a beautiful
thing to have on a long road trip. Before I had an iPod, I'd stick an
old laptop under the seat and let it rip through the same cassette shell
adapter. The battery held it for most trips, and when it didn't, I
already had a power inverter handy.

I also never hear a bad song that way.

I haven't subscribed to satellite radio mainly because I can't listen to
it on just any old receiver. So far as I know, I'd have to take the same
receiver everywhere, and that's just an invitation for me to
lose/misplace it.

William

Here's the complete review:

http://greyghost.mooo.com/nshdt-review/

William

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:24:05 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:36:23 -0600, "William R. Walsh"
omwrote:

Well, I was bored and curious...so if you've been wondering what's
inside this (or probably almost any other) HD Radio tuner, here it is:

(warning: the following link contains large quantities of pictures and
is therefore not friendly to those who have bandwidth caps or are
charged on a "quantity of data transferred" basis)

http://greyghost.mooo.com/hdtunetakeapart/

It's not quite finished yet, some items need more explanation. I haven't
verified the clock rate of the DSP but believe it to be correct. I also
need to upload the larger photos and add the navigation links to the
page. But for those who are curious, it ought to do for now.

No tuners were harmed in the making of this page or in the exploration.
By the way, I have been completely unimpressed by the performance of
this tuner. (I'm so glad I paid nowhere near the retail price!) I'd
recommend you look at something else if you want to listen to HD radio.

William

What is HD radio?

Asked Meathead, the village idiot. What a moron, doesn't know what
simple things like HD radio is. Hey, Meathead, try Google or Bing.

Hi!

Asked Meathead, the village idiot.

Oh for cryin' out loud...don't you have *anything* better to do? Isn't the
purpose of this group to ask electronics related questions and get answers?

Sure, a web search can answer the question. So can this group, and I don't
think it unreasonable that they do!

I don't know how many people have heard HD Radio or even really care about
it. I don't know anyone who has an HD Radio tuner, nor have I seen one in my
adventures.

William

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 01:18:46 -0600, "William R. Walsh"
m wrote:

Hi!

Asked Meathead, the village idiot.

Oh for cryin' out loud...don't you have *anything* better to do? Isn't the
purpose of this group to ask electronics related questions and get answers?

Sure, a web search can answer the question. So can this group, and I don't
think it unreasonable that they do!

I don't know how many people have heard HD Radio or even really care about
it. I don't know anyone who has an HD Radio tuner, nor have I seen one in my
adventures.

William


William, a resident net-nanny, lives a quiet secluded life, without
any contact with the real world.

Hi!

William, a resident net-nanny, lives a quiet secluded life, without
any contact with the real world.

Heh. Not hardly. Nice troll, though. Have a great day. :-)

William

Hi!

I have a receiver permanently mounted in my SUV. It transmits
it's signal over the FM broadcast band into the SUV's radio
on whatever freq I want. On occasion when I travel other stations
overpowered the sat receiver so I just took the FM antenna off
the SUV.

I had that happen with an iPod to FM modulator type of device, but it
didn't wire directly into the antenna connection. Its output was quiet,
which doubled the shock when something overpowered it.

I didn't pull the antenna because every time I have, it's proven
difficult to get it back on tightly enough that it won't work loose. I'd
hate for it to go flying off at speed. I already had the cassette player
(what can I say, other than I'm "old school", having made mix tapes up
until recently) so I just went to using a cassette shell as I always had
for that direct line-in connection.

The sat receiver has an option to use an external wire antenna
so it can transmit its signal further.

That's an interesting idea, especially since it is powerful enough to
get into your house and play on radios there.

Perhaps one of these days when I have a little more money going spare, I
might look into satellite radio. A few years ago I saw a nice Samsung
satellite radio receiver/recorder but didn't buy it because it was so
expensive. It had either flash memory or a small hard drive to record
to, and they claimed it was good for several hours worth of recording,
as well as timed recording.

I may try to climb up the disused TV antenna mast today and see what
will be required to get it going again. If there isn't an FM trap up
there, I expect it could be used as some kind of FM antenna for the HD
Radio tuner.

William

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:49:56 -0600, "William R. Walsh"
mwrote:

Hi!

So you pay 100 bucks for a receiver and get to listen
to the same commercial broadcast but now in near CD
quality sound?

I guess you could say that, but I'm not sure that a good analog FM
signal wouldn't already qualify as "near CD quality" sound...especially
on a good tuner.

I wanted to see what HD Radio was about (especially the subchannels),
but I wasn't about to pay any $100 to do so! After looking inside, I'm
convinced that someone is doing a pretty good job at inflating the price!

Being one that listens to music on the road I got really
disgusted with the ever increasing amount of commercials.

Me too. And it's hard to find what I want to hear on the radio anyway.
Stations seem so mercurial in their format changes any more...what
format was on the radio an hour ago might not be there later...

My solution has been to use an iPod, plugged into a cassette shell
adapter or stereo miniplug to RCA connector cable. It's a beautiful
thing to have on a long road trip. Before I had an iPod, I'd stick an
old laptop under the seat and let it rip through the same cassette shell
adapter. The battery held it for most trips, and when it didn't, I
already had a power inverter handy.

I also never hear a bad song that way.

I haven't subscribed to satellite radio mainly because I can't listen to
it on just any old receiver. So far as I know, I'd have to take the same
receiver everywhere, and that's just an invitation for me to
lose/misplace it.

William


I have a receiver permanently mounted in my SUV. It transmits it's
signal over the FM broadcast band into the SUV's radio on whatever
freq I want. On occasion when I travel other stations overpowered the
sat receiver so I just took the FM antenna off the SUV. The sat
receiver has an option to use an external wire antenna so it can
transmit its signal further. When my vehicle is parked in the garage
the signal transmits into my home and FM receivers in my bedroom and
living room. (snip)

So you have the nuclear powered Sirius radio that gets reception in your
garage?
Idiot, satellite radio is line of sight. Wont work in a garage, under a
bridge, or under anything that obstructs line of sight. DOH!

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:34:52 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:



"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:49:56 -0600, "William R. Walsh"
mwrote:

Hi!

So you pay 100 bucks for a receiver and get to listen
to the same commercial broadcast but now in near CD
quality sound?

I guess you could say that, but I'm not sure that a good analog FM
signal wouldn't already qualify as "near CD quality" sound...especially
on a good tuner.

I wanted to see what HD Radio was about (especially the subchannels),
but I wasn't about to pay any $100 to do so! After looking inside, I'm
convinced that someone is doing a pretty good job at inflating the
price!

Being one that listens to music on the road I got really
disgusted with the ever increasing amount of commercials.

Me too. And it's hard to find what I want to hear on the radio anyway.
Stations seem so mercurial in their format changes any more...what
format was on the radio an hour ago might not be there later...

My solution has been to use an iPod, plugged into a cassette shell
adapter or stereo miniplug to RCA connector cable. It's a beautiful
thing to have on a long road trip. Before I had an iPod, I'd stick an
old laptop under the seat and let it rip through the same cassette shell
adapter. The battery held it for most trips, and when it didn't, I
already had a power inverter handy.

I also never hear a bad song that way.

I haven't subscribed to satellite radio mainly because I can't listen to
it on just any old receiver. So far as I know, I'd have to take the same
receiver everywhere, and that's just an invitation for me to
lose/misplace it.

William


I have a receiver permanently mounted in my SUV. It transmits it's
signal over the FM broadcast band into the SUV's radio on whatever
freq I want. On occasion when I travel other stations overpowered the
sat receiver so I just took the FM antenna off the SUV. The sat
receiver has an option to use an external wire antenna so it can
transmit its signal further. When my vehicle is parked in the garage
the signal transmits into my home and FM receivers in my bedroom and
living room. (snip)

So[SLAP]

So wank off, fen-sucked ****wit.

And meatball responds with an insult, but doesn't tell us how he gets
satellite radio while his
vehicle is parked in the garage.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:36:23 -0600, "William R. Walsh"
m wrote:

http://greyghost.mooo.com/hdtunetakeapart/

Very nice. A photo of the unit before disection might be useful.

This might help with the Atmel tuner:
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=172303061
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc4994s.pdf
TI and Atmel partnered on the design. TI does the screaming media
decoding. Atmel does the analog RF and conventional AM/FM decoding.

So, did it work when you put it back together? How many spare screws?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:34:52 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:

So you have the nuclear powered Sirius radio that gets reception in your
garage?
Idiot, satellite radio is line of sight. Wont work in a garage, under a
bridge, or under anything that obstructs line of sight. DOH!

Try again...

Both Sirius and XM have terrestrial repeaters to fill in dead spots in
metropolitan areas, where tall buildings get in the way.
http://www.dogstarradio.com/sirius_map.php

XM Repeaters around Washington DC:
http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/album_pic.php?pic_id=9

Google Earth map of XM repeaters circa 2007:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/kml/XM-repeaters.kmz
(borrowed from Mike of xm411.com)

Some photos of XM terrestrial repeaters.
http://ednixon.com/pix/2001/harvardownstairs/
http://ednixon.com/pix/2001/xmharvard/
http://www.telebeans.org/tmp/xm/XM-cabinet.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:31:51 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:

And meatball responds with an insult, but doesn't tell us how he gets
satellite radio while his
vehicle is parked in the garage.

It would be quite easy to do even without terrestrial repeaters. Put
a 2.3GHz antenna on the roof of the garage. Install a 2.3GHz RF
amplifier at this antenna. 10-20dB gain should be easy. Run coax
cable into the garage and hang another 2.3GHz antenna somewhere. The
two antennas should be fairly directional and not face each other to
avoid oscillation.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:34:52 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:

So you have the nuclear powered Sirius radio that gets reception in your
garage?
Idiot, satellite radio is line of sight. Wont work in a garage, under a
bridge, or under anything that obstructs line of sight. DOH!

Try again...

Both Sirius and XM have terrestrial repeaters to fill in dead spots in
metropolitan areas, where tall buildings get in the way.
http://www.dogstarradio.com/sirius_map.php

XM Repeaters around Washington DC:
http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/album_pic.php?pic_id=9

Google Earth map of XM repeaters circa 2007:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/kml/XM-repeaters.kmz
(borrowed from Mike of xm411.com)

Some photos of XM terrestrial repeaters.
http://ednixon.com/pix/2001/harvardownstairs/
http://ednixon.com/pix/2001/xmharvard/
http://www.telebeans.org/tmp/xm/XM-cabinet.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I'm well aware of the repeaters, and all meat head has to do is say that's
how he receives his
satellite signal thru solid walls. Instead he resorts to insult and
internet babble.

On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:31:51 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:34:52 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:



So[SLAP]

So wank off, fen-sucked ****wit.

And meatball responds with an insult, but doesn't tell us how he gets
satellite radio while his
vehicle is parked in the garage.

Meathead, a child in a man's body, doesn't have a vheicle, or a radio.

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 09:19:59 -0800 Jeff Liebermann
wrote in Message id: :

[...]

How many spare screws?

Those aren't spares, those are inventory for the next job when you come up
short.

On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 05:13:19 -0500, JW wrote:

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 09:19:59 -0800 Jeff Liebermann
wrote in Message id: :

[...]

How many spare screws?

Those aren't spares, those are inventory for the next job when you come up
short.

I have a office carpet that lives on a diet of small hardware. Drop
anything onto the carpet, and it will immediately be injested by the
carpet, never to be seen again. The carpet is very much a picky eater
as it will ocassionally regurgitate a few of the larger items. I find
it necessary to regularly feed the carpet a ration of screws and
washers in the hope that it will be satiated and not devour anything
important.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 16:34:59 +0000 (UTC), root
wrote:

William R. Walsh m wrote:

No tuners were harmed in the making of this page or in the exploration.
By the way, I have been completely unimpressed by the performance of
this tuner. (I'm so glad I paid nowhere near the retail price!) I'd
recommend you look at something else if you want to listen to HD radio.

William

My local BB has sold the tuner for $70 compared to the normal $99.
I have been thinking of buying one for some time, what are your
complaints and do you have a recommendation for a better unit?


I bought one of these tuners from Best Buy liquidation. The main
problem I have is, at least once a week, when the unit is first
turned on, it won't receive a signal. Since unplugging it for 10
seconds makes it functional again, I haven't tried to repair it.
Sensitivity on my sample isn't great, but no worse than the average
for modern tuners. Chuck

Hi!

Very nice. A photo of the unit before disection might be useful.

Ask and ye shall receive. Okay, it's not a "before" picture, but the unit is
back together and on my stereo shelf.

http://greyghost.mooo.com/nshdt-review/audiostack.jpg (564x446, 52KB)

The "scratch and dent" damage comes mainly from a scrape across the top
cover that disrupts the paint. The case is minorly "kabonged" but that was
easy enough to fix with some careful work in the garage.

The stereo receiver below the tuner is an Insignia HS-R2000 and I find it to
be an excellent piece of equipment.
http://greyghost.mooo.com/nsr2000-review/

TI and Atmel partnered on the design. TI does the screaming media
decoding. Atmel does the analog RF and conventional AM/FM decoding.

Interesting to know. I didn't turn that up in my research (at least not that
I remember). I am surprised by the presence of the Atmel tuner. Atmel is not
the first name that comes to mind when I think "radio tuner IC"...more like
"microcontroller" or "FPGA".

So, did it work when you put it back together? How many spare screws?

No HD Radio tuners were harmed in the making of that teardown. Despite the
obviously less than ideal environment, nothing was harmed, no screws were
lost and none were left over.

William

Hi!

I have a office carpet that lives on a diet of small hardware. Drop
anything onto the carpet, and it will immediately be injested by the
carpet, never to be seen again. The carpet is very much a picky eater
as it will ocassionally regurgitate a few of the larger items. I find
it necessary to regularly feed the carpet a ration of screws and
washers in the hope that it will be satiated and not devour anything
important.

May you never have to put a vacuum cleaner across it. The shrapnel may be
terrific.

:-D

William

On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:51:43 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 09:37:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:34:52 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:

So you have the nuclear powered Sirius radio that gets reception in your
garage?
Idiot, satellite radio is line of sight. Wont work in a garage, under a
bridge, or under anything that obstructs line of sight. DOH!

Try again...

Both Sirius and XM have terrestrial repeaters to fill in dead spots in
metropolitan areas, where tall buildings get in the way.
http://www.dogstarradio.com/sirius_map.php

Besides that Jeff, Sirius penetrates my gararage roof just fine. And I
can take the radio inside and get decent reception through the ceiling
and roof in certain spots. But there is a time period of a minute or
so that when one sat goes out of range and the other comes in range
that is shaded so the signal drops out where as outside there isn't an
issue.

Sirius works differently from XM and is generally a better system in
marginal areas. There are 3 RF channels around 2.3GHz. Two come from
each of the two satellites. The 3rd from terrestrial repeaters. The
Sirius receiver decodes all 3 channels simultaneously and
conglomerates the usable data (which creates a 4 second delay). XM
uses 6 carriers but only decodes 2 carriers (to save power and CPU
horsepower).

The satellites also follow a rather odd figure 8 pattern over the
Americas, which results in signal strengths changing over the day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Satellite_Radio#Satellite_technology

If you have a wooden roof on your garage, I'm not surprised that
Sirius works inside. However, if you live in a concrete and steel
apartment building, where the garage is under the building, I suspect
you're hearing a terrestrial repeater.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:55:34 -0600, "William R. Walsh"
m wrote:

Hi!

Not high enough.

I have a office carpet that lives on a diet of small hardware. Drop
anything onto the carpet, and it will immediately be injested by the
carpet, never to be seen again. The carpet is very much a picky eater
as it will ocassionally regurgitate a few of the larger items. I find
it necessary to regularly feed the carpet a ration of screws and
washers in the hope that it will be satiated and not devour anything
important.

May you never have to put a vacuum cleaner across it. The shrapnel may be
terrific.

That's the way I usually find the screws. When I run the vacuum
cleaner, I usually hear little pings and clunks as the vacuum cleaner
inhales the screws. It's usually a lost cause trying to fish them out
of the dust bag. I have a magnetized iron bar that I sometime drag
across the carpet. It's made for picking up nails at construction
sites and works fairly well. When that doesn't work, I have a Bissell
150 mechanical floor sweeper:
http://www.bissell.com/ProductDetail.aspx?id=2981
where I can easily fish the screws out of the catch bin.

Another trick I use requires a flashlight. I shine the light *across*
the carpet. Anything higher than the carpet surface will cast an
easily visible shadow.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:44:01 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

I wish there was a repeater here.

Sorry but your 3 wish limit has been reached. Please find another
genie that grants wishes. Hint: They like their bottles rubbed.

I would probably add a second
receiver for inside the home so I could use a remote control.

See my rant on how to build a repeater. Just a rooftop antenna, 30dB
amplifier, and inside antenna. Since it's one way, it's easy. Wi-Fi
components can be used. I've built two of these for indoor GPS use at
1.575GHz that work fairly well (multipath causes problems). Make sure
the rooftop antenna is LHCP (left hand circular polarization), has
some gain and is pointed in the correct general direction. Straight
up is *NOT* the right way. See instructions at:
http://www.tss-radio.com/images/sirius_externalAntenna.pdf
Some Wi-Fi antennas will work, but you'll loose -3dB due to the
differences between LHCP and linear polarization.

The problem with terrestrial repeaters is that they belch plenty of RF
power at 2.3Ghz. That rips up 2.4GHz wi-fi communications near the
repeater. I had to relocate one wi-fi link thanks to the addition of
a new repeater.

I've
never had problems with reception in the garage even with 2 feet of
snow on the roof. I'm aware of the figure 8 orbit of the two birds.
Did some research on them and they are made by Loral. Future
birds are going to have something more than an unfolding 36" parabolic
for an antenna. But I think you have XM and Sirius mixed up. From what
I've read Sirius uses the 4ghz spectrum and XM the 2 ghz. But hell I
could be wrong, wont be the first or last.

Nope. They're both on 2.3GHz. Wikipedia has a mention of 4Ghz
somewhere, but that's wrong. You can buy aftermarket antennas that
claim to work with both, which is an important clue. I could lookup
the assignments on the FCC pages, but not now. Incidentally, the
uplink and downlink to the terrestrial repeaters are on Ku band. The
repeaters do NOT repeat the 2.3GHz transmissions to improve
reliability.

I ditched XM back in 2005 because the signal was so
bad unless you were out in the open. I couldn't even drive down a road
with tall trees on each side without losing reception.

I have portable receivers for both but neither is activated. I don't
need the service for signal checking, coverage checking, and doing
installs. Besides, I only listen to my own music, 1960's acid rock,
New Age and classical, none of which I like when I tried their
programming. An iPod Touch 2G keeps me entertaining.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:18:23 -0500, Meat Plowwrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:59:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:44:01 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

I wish there was a repeater here.

Sorry but your 3 wish limit has been reached. Please find another
genie that grants wishes. Hint: They like their bottles rubbed.

I would probably add a second
receiver for inside the home so I could use a remote control.

See my rant on how to build a repeater. Just a rooftop antenna, 30dB
amplifier, and inside antenna. Since it's one way, it's easy. Wi-Fi
components can be used. I've built two of these for indoor GPS use at
1.575GHz that work fairly well (multipath causes problems). Make sure
the rooftop antenna is LHCP (left hand circular polarization), has
some gain and is pointed in the correct general direction. Straight
up is *NOT* the right way. See instructions at:
http://www.tss-radio.com/images/sirius_externalAntenna.pdf
Some Wi-Fi antennas will work, but you'll loose -3dB due to the
differences between LHCP and linear polarization.

The problem with terrestrial repeaters is that they belch plenty of RF
power at 2.3Ghz. That rips up 2.4GHz wi-fi communications near the
repeater. I had to relocate one wi-fi link thanks to the addition of
a new repeater.

I've
never had problems with reception in the garage even with 2 feet of
snow on the roof. I'm aware of the figure 8 orbit of the two birds.
Did some research on them and they are made by Loral. Future
birds are going to have something more than an unfolding 36" parabolic
for an antenna. But I think you have XM and Sirius mixed up. From what
I've read Sirius uses the 4ghz spectrum and XM the 2 ghz. But hell I
could be wrong, wont be the first or last.

Nope. They're both on 2.3GHz. Wikipedia has a mention of 4Ghz
somewhere, but that's wrong. You can buy aftermarket antennas that
claim to work with both, which is an important clue. I could lookup
the assignments on the FCC pages, but not now. Incidentally, the
uplink and downlink to the terrestrial repeaters are on Ku band. The
repeaters do NOT repeat the 2.3GHz transmissions to improve
reliability.

I ditched XM back in 2005 because the signal was so
bad unless you were out in the open. I couldn't even drive down a road
with tall trees on each side without losing reception.

I have portable receivers for both but neither is activated. I don't
need the service for signal checking, coverage checking, and doing
installs. Besides, I only listen to my own music, 1960's acid rock,
New Age and classical, none of which I like when I tried their
programming. An iPod Touch 2G keeps me entertaining.

I'll look into the repeater. Shouldn't cost much.

I guess this is where klaatu leaves the thread in shame.

crickets

Not at all. I just find your statement of receiving satellite radio in a
garage to be suspect.
I just don't believe its happening without a repeater.

Hi!

crickets

Sure has been an interesting discussion to watch, though!

I'd not have expected it to lead this way, but it just goes to show
that you never know...

William

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:18:23 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

I'll look into the repeater. Shouldn't cost much.

Not a repeater. Amplificator. See various products at:
http://www.pixelsatradio.com/products.htm
Yep... cheap.

Incidentally, I blundered across this photo of the FM-5 bird antenna:
http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/a-look-at-the-sirius-fm-5-satellite-advanced-antenna-reflector.html
Wow!

I guess this is where klaatu leaves the thread in shame.

Nope. Such threads never end and there is never a clear winner. We're
already into the accusations and excuses. Soon, we'll degenerate into
name calling and character assassination. The idea is not to win the
discussion, but to leave evidence for later readers to misquote and
recycle. Garbage in, never out.

Marginally relevant rant on Usenet characters:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/genesis.txt

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article ,
William R. Walsh m wrote:

I am surprised by the presence of the Atmel tuner. Atmel is not
the first name that comes to mind when I think "radio tuner IC"...more like
"microcontroller" or "FPGA".

They absorbed Temic, a.k.a. Telefunken's IC operation. They
did at least a half a dozen "single chip radio" parts.

Atmel's website is where I ended up when I was looking for the IC
datasheet to repair an '80s vintage GE under the shelf digital clock
radio.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:03:56 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:18:23 -0500, Meat Plowwrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:59:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:44:01 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

I wish there was a repeater here.

Sorry but your 3 wish limit has been reached. Please find another
genie that grants wishes. Hint: They like their bottles rubbed.

I would probably add a second
receiver for inside the home so I could use a remote control.

See my rant on how to build a repeater. Just a rooftop antenna, 30dB
amplifier, and inside antenna. Since it's one way, it's easy. Wi-Fi
components can be used. I've built two of these for indoor GPS use at
1.575GHz that work fairly well (multipath causes problems). Make sure
the rooftop antenna is LHCP (left hand circular polarization), has
some gain and is pointed in the correct general direction. Straight
up is *NOT* the right way. See instructions at:
http://www.tss-radio.com/images/sirius_externalAntenna.pdf
Some Wi-Fi antennas will work, but you'll loose -3dB due to the
differences between LHCP and linear polarization.

The problem with terrestrial repeaters is that they belch plenty of RF
power at 2.3Ghz. That rips up 2.4GHz wi-fi communications near the
repeater. I had to relocate one wi-fi link thanks to the addition of
a new repeater.

I've
never had problems with reception in the garage even with 2 feet of
snow on the roof. I'm aware of the figure 8 orbit of the two birds.
Did some research on them and they are made by Loral. Future
birds are going to have something more than an unfolding 36" parabolic
for an antenna. But I think you have XM and Sirius mixed up. From what
I've read Sirius uses the 4ghz spectrum and XM the 2 ghz. But hell I
could be wrong, wont be the first or last.

Nope. They're both on 2.3GHz. Wikipedia has a mention of 4Ghz
somewhere, but that's wrong. You can buy aftermarket antennas that
claim to work with both, which is an important clue. I could lookup
the assignments on the FCC pages, but not now. Incidentally, the
uplink and downlink to the terrestrial repeaters are on Ku band. The
repeaters do NOT repeat the 2.3GHz transmissions to improve
reliability.

I ditched XM back in 2005 because the signal was so
bad unless you were out in the open. I couldn't even drive down a road
with tall trees on each side without losing reception.

I have portable receivers for both but neither is activated. I don't
need the service for signal checking, coverage checking, and doing
installs. Besides, I only listen to my own music, 1960's acid rock,
New Age and classical, none of which I like when I tried their
programming. An iPod Touch 2G keeps me entertaining.

I'll look into the repeater. Shouldn't cost much.

I guess this is where klaatu leaves the thread in shame.

crickets

Not at all. I just find your statement of receiving satellite radio in a
garage to be suspect.
I just don't believe its happening without a repeater.

That's because now you're back pedaling and trying to save face.
Your claim that it won't penetrate a wooden roof has been refuted. My
claim that it does has been verified to be plausible. Now back away
from the PC and do a little research before you bust into another
thread and make yourself look like even more of a know-nothing
asshole.


No. I have three vehicles, all with Sirius. Two are after-market, one
factory. None have them
have ever worked when pulled into my garage, wooden roof with asphalt
shingles, no ceiling, nothing above them except roof. The one in the Caddy
(Xact Visor) will lose signal going down a tree lined
lane in the summer time. No repeaters in my rural area. I find you're
statement that satellite radio will work in a covered area to be highly
suspect. And I can only assume that you've discovered how to use Google.

Klaatu wrote:
"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:03:56 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:18:23 -0500, Meat Plowwrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:59:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:44:01 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

I wish there was a repeater here.
Sorry but your 3 wish limit has been reached. Please find another
genie that grants wishes. Hint: They like their bottles rubbed.

I would probably add a second
receiver for inside the home so I could use a remote control.
See my rant on how to build a repeater. Just a rooftop antenna, 30dB
amplifier, and inside antenna. Since it's one way, it's easy. Wi-Fi
components can be used. I've built two of these for indoor GPS use at
1.575GHz that work fairly well (multipath causes problems). Make sure
the rooftop antenna is LHCP (left hand circular polarization), has
some gain and is pointed in the correct general direction. Straight
up is *NOT* the right way. See instructions at:
http://www.tss-radio.com/images/sirius_externalAntenna.pdf
Some Wi-Fi antennas will work, but you'll loose -3dB due to the
differences between LHCP and linear polarization.

The problem with terrestrial repeaters is that they belch plenty of RF
power at 2.3Ghz. That rips up 2.4GHz wi-fi communications near the
repeater. I had to relocate one wi-fi link thanks to the addition of
a new repeater.

I've
never had problems with reception in the garage even with 2 feet of
snow on the roof. I'm aware of the figure 8 orbit of the two birds.
Did some research on them and they are made by Loral. Future
birds are going to have something more than an unfolding 36" parabolic
for an antenna. But I think you have XM and Sirius mixed up. From what
I've read Sirius uses the 4ghz spectrum and XM the 2 ghz. But hell I
could be wrong, wont be the first or last.
Nope. They're both on 2.3GHz. Wikipedia has a mention of 4Ghz
somewhere, but that's wrong. You can buy aftermarket antennas that
claim to work with both, which is an important clue. I could lookup
the assignments on the FCC pages, but not now. Incidentally, the
uplink and downlink to the terrestrial repeaters are on Ku band. The
repeaters do NOT repeat the 2.3GHz transmissions to improve
reliability.

I ditched XM back in 2005 because the signal was so
bad unless you were out in the open. I couldn't even drive down a road
with tall trees on each side without losing reception.
I have portable receivers for both but neither is activated. I don't
need the service for signal checking, coverage checking, and doing
installs. Besides, I only listen to my own music, 1960's acid rock,
New Age and classical, none of which I like when I tried their
programming. An iPod Touch 2G keeps me entertaining.
I'll look into the repeater. Shouldn't cost much.

I guess this is where klaatu leaves the thread in shame.
crickets

Not at all. I just find your statement of receiving satellite radio in a
garage to be suspect.
I just don't believe its happening without a repeater.
That's because now you're back pedaling and trying to save face.
Your claim that it won't penetrate a wooden roof has been refuted. My
claim that it does has been verified to be plausible. Now back away
from the PC and do a little research before you bust into another
thread and make yourself look like even more of a know-nothing
asshole.


No. I have three vehicles, all with Sirius. Two are after-market, one
factory. None have them
have ever worked when pulled into my garage, wooden roof with asphalt
shingles, no ceiling, nothing above them except roof. The one in the Caddy
(Xact Visor) will lose signal going down a tree lined
lane in the summer time. No repeaters in my rural area. I find you're
statement that satellite radio will work in a covered area to be highly
suspect. And I can only assume that you've discovered how to use Google.

Has nobody tried to do these short connections using IR or
visible light?
No legal problems, and no interference problems.......

Years ago I did some experimenting with a ten by ten array of cheap
IR diodes, AM modulated at 1MHZ, and sending the ac foto current
of the receiver into the antenne inpust of a 10 dollar AM radio to
receive/amplify the signal(choose frequency to use a quiet place in the
band).
Rather promishing results.

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:07:11 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:



"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:03:56 -0600, "Klaatu" wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:18:23 -0500, Meat Plowwrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:59:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:44:01 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

I wish there was a repeater here.

Sorry but your 3 wish limit has been reached. Please find another
genie that grants wishes. Hint: They like their bottles rubbed.

I would probably add a second
receiver for inside the home so I could use a remote control.

See my rant on how to build a repeater. Just a rooftop antenna, 30dB
amplifier, and inside antenna. Since it's one way, it's easy. Wi-Fi
components can be used. I've built two of these for indoor GPS use
at
1.575GHz that work fairly well (multipath causes problems). Make
sure
the rooftop antenna is LHCP (left hand circular polarization), has
some gain and is pointed in the correct general direction. Straight
up is *NOT* the right way. See instructions at:
http://www.tss-radio.com/images/sirius_externalAntenna.pdf
Some Wi-Fi antennas will work, but you'll loose -3dB due to the
differences between LHCP and linear polarization.

The problem with terrestrial repeaters is that they belch plenty of
RF
power at 2.3Ghz. That rips up 2.4GHz wi-fi communications near the
repeater. I had to relocate one wi-fi link thanks to the addition of
a new repeater.

I've
never had problems with reception in the garage even with 2 feet of
snow on the roof. I'm aware of the figure 8 orbit of the two birds.
Did some research on them and they are made by Loral. Future
birds are going to have something more than an unfolding 36"
parabolic
for an antenna. But I think you have XM and Sirius mixed up. From
what
I've read Sirius uses the 4ghz spectrum and XM the 2 ghz. But hell I
could be wrong, wont be the first or last.

Nope. They're both on 2.3GHz. Wikipedia has a mention of 4Ghz
somewhere, but that's wrong. You can buy aftermarket antennas that
claim to work with both, which is an important clue. I could lookup
the assignments on the FCC pages, but not now. Incidentally, the
uplink and downlink to the terrestrial repeaters are on Ku band. The
repeaters do NOT repeat the 2.3GHz transmissions to improve
reliability.

I ditched XM back in 2005 because the signal was so
bad unless you were out in the open. I couldn't even drive down a
road
with tall trees on each side without losing reception.

I have portable receivers for both but neither is activated. I don't
need the service for signal checking, coverage checking, and doing
installs. Besides, I only listen to my own music, 1960's acid rock,
New Age and classical, none of which I like when I tried their
programming. An iPod Touch 2G keeps me entertaining.

I'll look into the repeater. Shouldn't cost much.

I guess this is where klaatu leaves the thread in shame.

crickets

Not at all. I just find your statement of receiving satellite radio in
a
garage to be suspect.
I just don't believe its happening without a repeater.

That's because now you're back pedaling and trying to save face.
Your claim that it won't penetrate a wooden roof has been refuted. My
claim that it does has been verified to be plausible. Now back away
from the PC and do a little research before you bust into another
thread and make yourself look like even more of a know-nothing
asshole.


No[SLAP]

I could care less what you have, bitch. Go away I'm not interested in
your lies.

Welcome to my kill filter until you sock up as someone else.

Ah yes, of course, mindless immature insults. Typical.
Poor meat head.