www.supermediastore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale for
less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy another.
Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:51:31 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale for
less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy another.
Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!


**** off, spammer.

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy
meter on sale for less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and
I might buy another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2
or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!

**** off, spammer.

And who might you be, sir? I'm a regular and (sometimes overly) visible
contributor to this group.

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:40:20 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy
meter on sale for less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and
I might buy another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2
or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!

**** off, spammer.

And who might you be, sir? I'm a regular and (sometimes overly) visible
contributor to this group.


Well, I did assume someone spoofed your ID, but since you admit it...
Just why do you feel the need to spam that site, is it yours for
example?

Yes, you do contribute usefully but spam is never, ever either a
contribution or desirable.

I think you owe everyone an apology for the spam, but I doubt you are
going to do that! g

On 9/4/2009 12:38 PM PeterD spake thus:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:40:20 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy
meter on sale for less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and
I might buy another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2
or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!

**** off, spammer.

And who might you be, sir? I'm a regular and (sometimes overly)
visible contributor to this group.

Well, I did assume someone spoofed your ID, but since you admit it...
Just why do you feel the need to spam that site, is it yours for
example?

You need to learn the difference between spam and useful information.
Not all commercial links posted here are "spam". Think about it.

Apparently you're one of the crowd who defines "trolling" as "anything I
don't like".


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Sep 4, 12:38*pm, PeterD wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:40:20 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"

wrote:
www.superspammingstore.comhas the "Kill A Watt" power/energy
meter on sale for less than $19, shipping included. I have
two, and
I might buy another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate
within 2
or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!

**** off, spammer.

And who might you be, sir? I'm a regular and (sometimes overly)
visible
contributor to this group.

Well, I did assume someone spoofed your ID, but since you admit
it...
Just why do you feel the need to spam that site, is it yours for
example?

Yes, you do contribute usefully but spam is never, ever either a
contribution or desirable.

I think you owe everyone an apology for the spam, but I doubt you
are
going to do that! g


And he shouldn't apologize as it wasn't spam. He's passing along
useful information and not making money on it. You have a strange idea
what spam is. Methinks you're one of those 'I don't like it so you
shouldn't do it' guys.

I just got my Kill-a-Watt 3 days ago from Newegg for $19.99, free
shipping but CA tax. I thought I got the best deal but I was only
close.

G²

PeterD wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:51:31 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale for
less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy another.
Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!


**** off, spammer.


William isn't a spammer. A lot of techs use that product, or
something similar. You never seem to contribute to this newsgroup, so
why don't you '**** off'?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:56:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PeterD wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:51:31 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale for
less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy another.
Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!


**** off, spammer.


William isn't a spammer. A lot of techs use that product, or
something similar. You never seem to contribute to this newsgroup, so
why don't you '**** off'?

Fine... So now spamming is acceptable. There is NO difference between
William's selling the 'Kill A Watt' meter, and that chinese ass who is
selling shoes, other than what the product is.

It appears that if you are a 'regular contributor' then to spam your
products/web site is acceptable.

Let's be real: any one of us would have no problems finding the
product if we wanted it, it was unnecessary to spam it.

So since so many of William's friends say to '**** off' or otherwise
bugger off and go away, so be it. I'll not critize spammers again here
in this group.

As to 'techs using the product' fine. I use a clamp-on amp meter,
works well for my needs.

Fine... So now spamming is acceptable. There is NO difference
between William's selling the "Kill A Watt" meter, and that Chinese
ass who is selling shoes, other than what the product is.

Firstly, this post was made to only two groups, this one and
rec.antiques.radio+phono. That hardly counts as spam (in the sense of it
being an undifferentiated spew).

Secondly, I'm not selling the product, not do I get a cut. I'm simply
letting people know it's available at an attractive price.

Thirdly, it's possible some people here have never heard of the Kill A Watt.

Fourthly, these people are not defending me as my "friends", but because
they understand the difference between spam, and someone telling the group
about a bargain.

Fifthly, the Kill A Watt does things a clamp-on-meter can't do.

I can't think of a Sixthly or Seventhly, so I have to stop here.

Whoops.

I forgot to mention that you need a coupon code to get this price. It's...

94EL15P

PeterD wrote:

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:56:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PeterD wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:51:31 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale for
less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy another.
Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!


**** off, spammer.


William isn't a spammer. A lot of techs use that product, or
something similar. You never seem to contribute to this newsgroup, so
why don't you '**** off'?

Fine... So now spamming is acceptable. There is NO difference between
William's selling the 'Kill A Watt' meter, and that chinese ass who is
selling shoes, other than what the product is.


He isn't selling anything. He doesn't own a business. He is an
electrical engineer who specialized in technical writing.


It appears that if you are a 'regular contributor' then to spam your
products/web site is acceptable.


It appears that you have very low reading comprehension. Some places
want over $50 for the item. He found a good deal, and shared it. I've
know William online for about ten years on another newsgroup. We've had
some disagreements, but over all, he's a good guy. He even rallied some
of the regulars in that group to help me when the VA refused some
medical care I needed, to survive.


Let's be real: any one of us would have no problems finding the
product if we wanted it, it was unnecessary to spam it.


Lets get real: You don't know what you are talking about.


So since so many of William's friends say to '**** off' or otherwise
bugger off and go away, so be it. I'll not critize spammers again here
in this group.


Spam is selling your goods, not telling others you found a good deal.
You, on the other hand are quickly becoming a troll. I haven't seen any
of William's friends telling him to **** off. Just the groups usual
malcontents with another wild hair up their ass.


As to 'techs using the product' fine. I use a clamp-on amp meter,
works well for my needs.


A clamp on ammeter is fine for some uses. It doesn't log power
consumption. It is a tool intended for electricians, and most do not
give accurate readings on anything other than a pure resistive load.
Reading the actual load of a switch mode power supply requires a good
RMS converter in the meter. The same as the ones mate for the new
electronic watt hour meters. Its a poor worker who doesn't understand
his tools, yet defends bad work.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 10:25:47 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

A clamp on ammeter is fine for some uses. It doesn't log power
consumption. It is a tool intended for electricians, and most do not
give accurate readings on anything other than a pure resistive load.
Reading the actual load of a switch mode power supply requires a good
RMS converter in the meter. The same as the ones mate for the new
electronic watt hour meters. Its a poor worker who doesn't understand
his tools, yet defends bad work.

I use both clamp-on and inline meters. The clamp-on is best for
troubleshooting while the inline is best for monitoring. My no-name
Chinese clamp-on meter does accumulate usage (logging), but does not
have the power factor correction I need for dealing with inductive
loads (motors), or badly designed switchers. The inline can also do
cost calculations, which is something my customers can see and
understand.

However, the big advantage is that I can buy the inline meter for
about $27, do my song and dance for the customer, and then sell it to
him for about twice that. It also give the customer the impression
that I'm tryting to save him money by monitoring his electricity
usage. It's design makes it acceptable for leaving it in place for
monitoring, while a clamp-on meter plus inline cord splitter, would be
an ugly mess.

Note: I'm not an electrician. This week, I fix computahs. Computer
owners often want to know how much power their PC or monitor is
burning. Hmmm... I just bought myself a new desktop and forgot to
measure it.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sep 5, 7:25*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
* *It appears that you have very low reading comprehension. *Some places
want over $50 for the item. He found a good deal, and shared it. *I've
know William online for about ten years on another newsgroup. *We've had
some disagreements, but over all, he's a good guy. *He even rallied some
of the regulars in that group to help me when the VA refused some
medical care I needed, to survive.

Let's be real: any one of us would have no problems finding the
product if we wanted it, it was unnecessary to spam it.

* *Lets get real: *You don't know what you are talking about.

So since so many of William's friends say to '**** off' or otherwise
bugger off and go away, so be it. I'll not critize spammers again here
in this group.

* *Spam is selling your goods, not telling others you found a good deal.
You, on the other hand are quickly becoming a troll. I haven't seen any
of William's friends telling him to **** off. *Just the groups usual
malcontents with another wild hair up their ass.

As to 'techs using the product' fine. I use a clamp-on amp meter,
works well for my needs.

* *A clamp on ammeter is fine for some uses. It doesn't log power
consumption. *It is a tool intended for electricians, and most do not
give accurate readings on anything other than a pure resistive load.
Reading the actual load of a switch mode power supply requires a good
RMS converter in the meter. *The same as the ones mate for the new
electronic watt hour meters. *Its a poor worker who doesn't understand
his tools, yet defends bad work.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Sep 5, 7:25*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
*I've
know William online for about ten years on another newsgroup.
Wow! I claim that I first met him about 44 years ago.

On 9/5/2009 6:23 AM PeterD spake thus:

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:56:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

PeterD wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:51:31 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy
meter on sale for less than $19, shipping included. I have two,
and I might buy another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate
within 2 or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!

**** off, spammer.

William isn't a spammer. A lot of techs use that product, or
something similar. You never seem to contribute to this newsgroup, so
why don't you '**** off'?

Fine... So now spamming is acceptable. There is NO difference between
William's selling the 'Kill A Watt' meter, and that chinese ass who is
selling shoes, other than what the product is.

He's not *selling* it, you idiot.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

Meat Plow wrote:

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:56:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PeterD wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:51:31 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

www.superspammingstore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale for
less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy another.
Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Rush right out in a buying frenzy!


**** off, spammer.


William isn't a spammer. A lot of techs use that product, or
something similar. You never seem to contribute to this newsgroup, so
why don't you '**** off'?

**** off spammer


Yawn. Why don't you go back to alt.usenet.kooks?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:
www.supermediastore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale
for less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy
another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Is this a clip on type? If so it might be 3% accurate at maximum load, but
if it's like UK ones painfully poor at below say 3 kW.

--
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:
www.supermediastore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale
for less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might buy
another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Is this a clip on type? If so it might be 3% accurate at maximum load, but
if it's like UK ones painfully poor at below say 3 kW.


It is an inline device:
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

Here is the P4400 manual:
http://www.p3international.com/manuals/p4400_manual.pdf


This is the newer model:
http://www.p3international.com/products/p4460.html

Here is the P4460 manual:
http://www.p3international.com/manuals/p4460_manual.pdf


The third version is in an eight outlet power strip:
http://www.p3international.com/products/consumer/p4320.html

Here is the P4320 manual:
http://www.p3international.com/manuals/p4320_manual.pdf

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:
www.supermediastore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on
sale for less than $19, shipping included. I have two, and I might
buy another. Consumer Reports says it's accurate within 2 or 3%.

Is this a clip on type? If so it might be 3% accurate at maximum load,
but if it's like UK ones painfully poor at below say 3 kW.


It is an inline device:
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

Ah - right. Those can be fine, accuracy wise. But of very limited use.
After all it's not difficult to work out what most appliances cost to run.
The sort which gives a whole house reading are a good idea - but sadly
inaccurate due to clip on design.

Not a brilliant price either - I only paid 10 gbp for one.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Those can be fine, accuracy-wise. But of very limited use. After
all, it's not difficult to work out what most appliances cost to run.

When I get around to it, I'm going to put it on my fridge for a few days. I
want to see exactly how many kWh it draws over a week or so. You can't do
that with a clip-on, because refrigerators run intermittently.

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Those can be fine, accuracy-wise. But of very limited use. After
all, it's not difficult to work out what most appliances cost to run.

When I get around to it, I'm going to put it on my fridge for a few
days. I want to see exactly how many kWh it draws over a week or so. You
can't do that with a clip-on, because refrigerators run intermittently.

That's true - but what action will you take? You can hardly switch it off
to save energy. Unlike heating and aircon. If it's old a new one will
almost certainly be more efficient. But may cost more than it saves.

--
*It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:11:09 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Those can be fine, accuracy-wise. But of very limited use. After
all, it's not difficult to work out what most appliances cost to run.

When I get around to it, I'm going to put it on my fridge for a few days. I
want to see exactly how many kWh it draws over a week or so. You can't do
that with a clip-on, because refrigerators run intermittently.

Yes you can with the proper adapter.
http://support.radioshack.com/support_meters/doc21/21584.htm
The Radio Shock inline current sensor is the device on the right. It's
normally NOT sold seperately. It consists of 1 turn and 10 turn loops
inside a plastic case, wired in series with the AC line. The clamp-on
meter clips into either the 1 turn hole for fairly large currents, or
the 10 turn hole for a 10x current multiplier. You could easily build
one of these if you can't find one to buy.

However, there's a problem. Your fridge is an inductive load, which
will require power factor correction to obtain the same current as
measured by the typical disc type electric power meter. You can't do
that with a typical clamp-on ammeter. You can do that with a wall
mounted inline power meter.

Also, watch out for refrigerators that have self-defrosters. Some are
on demand, while others are on a timer. The defroster sucks LOTS of
power and will be a big part of the electric bill. Same with
on-demand ice cube makers.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

A refridgerator in a natural gas heated/hot water/cooking home is the
#1 watt bandit. My 10 something CUF fridge all of 3 years old consumes
30% of my total usage on a normal setting. Just two of us living here
so it's easy to gauge usage otherwise. Lighting is CFL. Only other
watt magnet is the big screen which is on 6 hours a day (rear
projector) and a P4 computer on 24/7. Plus security lighting outside
in the form of 3 100 watt CFLs for 10 hours a day. This equals about a
$65/mo bill.

I live by myself, have a constantly running computer, and pay around $25 a
month, which I consider too much. I wonder if you're wasting energy and
aren't aware of it.

On Sep 5, 11:00*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Ah - right. Those can be fine, accuracy wise. But of very limited use.
After all it's not difficult to work out what most appliances cost to run..

Don't think small! I've used power meters to do LOTS of tuning
operations.
Consider an AB power stage, where 50W peak is available; you might
allow 2W of quiescent power dissipation, and that means (under no-load
conditions) cranking the final stage bias fully down, powering up the
unit,
and watching the power meter while slowly tweaking up the
bias pot. When it gets to x + 2W, you're done.

RF output power is awkward to measure, too; tuning a power
oscillator with a power meter on the AC input is ... luxurious.
Look, ma! No more RF burns!

And that little kill-a-watt is a much nicer way to find out what the
(duty-cycle-according-to-humidistat) dehumidifier really costs to
run down in the basement, than an A/B comparison on 2006 and 2007
electric utility bills. I did the electric bill comparison first.
Wish
it was the other way around.

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:11:29 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

It is an inline device:
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

Some more...

Photo of the insides of the original and the later P4440 versions. The
P4440 is at the bottom:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/kill-a-watt.html
The original version has no memory (loses history if unplugged) and
has only 4 buttons on the front. The later version has 5 buttons and
retains usage history until the cap discharges. I don't have a P4460
(EZ) inside photo.

I have about 4 of them, some of which are permanently installed
monitoring the power consumption of various devices. I use 3 more for
distributing the electric power bill on a mountaintop radio site (with
poor weather protection). The main advantage is the low price.
However, the operation of the 5 buttons is not very obvious and I have
to keep a copy of the instructions nearby.

Costco has the P4460 for $27.

Recently, I've been considering alternatives, which seem to have some
advantages, like less button pushing. I have one of these on order:
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Meter-LCD-Display-EM100/dp/B000RKVK52
Black and Decker also makes one, but it's overpriced at about $100.:
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Energy/products.aspx

As for accuracy, the P4400 models that I have seem fairly accurate,
even at low levels. I don't have an easy way to calibrate these,
especially with odd power factors. My mechanical disc power meter and
the numbers from a P4400 were quite close when I tested both in series
running only a refridgerator for a month.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 9/5/2009 11:50 AM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:11:29 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

It is an inline device:
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

Some more...

Photo of the insides of the original and the later P4440 versions. The
P4440 is at the bottom:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/kill-a-watt.html

So how does this thing work?

It looks like the power just passes straight through from plug to socket
over there on the left. Is there a current transformer in there
somewhere? What about that half-loop thingy on top? And what's that
semicircular thing doing between the power prongs above the ground
connector?


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:09:18 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 9/5/2009 11:50 AM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:11:29 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

It is an inline device:
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

Some more...

Photo of the insides of the original and the later P4440 versions. The
P4440 is at the bottom:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/kill-a-watt.html

So how does this thing work?

It works quite well.

The actual device is made by Prodigit in China:
http://www.prodigit.com
http://www.prodigit.com/index.php?lang=en&op=product&pro_num=1051
http://www.prodigit.com/index.php?lang=en&op=product&pro_num=1052

It looks like the power just passes straight through from plug to socket
over there on the left. Is there a current transformer in there
somewhere?

I haven't ripped it apart and traced out a schematic (yet). As near
as I can guess(tm), the big half loop near the power jack is a low
value series resistor. There's no current xformer inside. The big
green capacitor is probably AC line coupling for measuring the
voltage. The LM324/LM2902 is probably setup as input sections of an
instrumentation amplifier to float and isolate the AC line from the
rest of the circuitry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentation_amplifier
The chip on the display (right) section is apparently a proprietary
ASIC and probably handles some of the analog circuitry, the A/D
converters, and display functions.

What about that half-loop thingy on top?

Series resistor.

And what's that
semicircular thing doing between the power prongs above the ground
connector?

It's part of the plastic case. My guess(tm) is that it's to align the
power jack connectors to the case. Since there are no mounting
screws, and the PCB is attached to the case with hot melt glue,
something like that is required. No clue why the strange shape as
some round holes would have done as well. My guess(tm) is that if one
of the brass power jacks became detached from the PCB, it would not
lean into the opposing connector as it is blocked by the plastic
thing.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 9/4/2009 5:51 AM William Sommerwerck spake thus:

www.supermediastore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy meter on sale for
less than $19, shipping included.

Not quite. Singly they're $21.99. $19.99 ea. for 3 or more.

http://www.supermediastore.com/kilwateldet1.html


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

www.supermediastore.com has the "Kill A Watt" power/energy
meter on sale for less than $19, shipping included.

Not quite. Singly they're $21.99. $19.99 ea. for 3 or more.
http://www.supermediastore.com/kilwateldet1.html

In an earlier post, I indicated that you need a code...

94EL15P