What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:36:55 -0400, Van Chocstraw
wrote:

Sandi wrote:
Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
tinned?

Is cost really so different?

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

I guess they assume you do not need to cut it to length. It probably
solders easier or stay in a pinch connector better.

Cinch type terminations is the proper term, Chocstraw retard.

Also a soldered wire does NOT get retained better in such a connection.

The solder "creeps" away and the connection becomes loose.

http://www.materialseducation.org/do...15-Bunnell.pdf

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans....practical.pdf


Go troll somewhere else Chocstraw.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

One of the unmentioned uses is in kits. Tinned wire reduces the chance of a
bad connection made by someone inexperienced in soldering. (I didn't say it
eliminated the chance.)

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
t wrote:
Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:
Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN
Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor cost
of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever,
electro plated may which is normally used more in cases of
screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of the
wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts comparing
the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:53:17 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

"Mr. Haney"


Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute ******** !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.

..... Phil



I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing. I'm
prepared to accept what he writes.

Could you cut the noise down please. Thank you.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Apr 17, 7:18 am, "Steve Terry" wrote:
"Pilgrim" wrote in message

...



In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:
"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?
Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC
Steve Terry
Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?
Chuck P.
Yes, Silver is one of the few metals that has a lower resistance than
copper,
but oxidises easily so silver should be covered, PTFE is one of the best
coverings.

Silver does not oxidize so much as it tarnishes,

Tarnish IS oxide, you dope. Silver oxidizes, it just doesn't grow a
crust like Copper does, regardless of whatever other elements it grabs
while doing it.

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide. The tarnishing process is as
follows..

8Ag + 4HS(-) --- 4Ag2S + 2H2 + 4e-

Oxygen in the form of a water film is required - silver will not tarnish
in dry air. This reaction mops up the electrons lost in the oxidation
process

O2 + 2H2O + 4e- --- 4OH(-)

Although the reaction is a classical redox process the end product is
not an oxide - it is assuredly silver sulphide.

Since I'm sure there will be a deal of shouting from people about how
this is ********, I would point out I have a degree and masters in the
field and spent a lot of time researching silver adsorption reactions
for silver oxide cells and lead acids - I do know what the deal is here.

As fo silver oxide being conductive - the biggest problem in a silver
cell is the extra graphite needed to make it conduct - silver oxide is a
p-type semiconductor. Silver sulphide is mode conductive than copper
oxide though by a long way and is usedful because then the silver coat
tarnishes it does not reduce the skin effect like the dielectric coating
of copper oxide will.



by picking up sulfur
from the air.

You are thinking of Copper.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

Chris Street wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Apr 17, 7:18 am, "Steve Terry" wrote:
"Pilgrim" wrote in message


...



In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:
"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?
Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels
on the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high
frequency AC Steve Terry
Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver
plated? Chuck P.
Yes, Silver is one of the few metals that has a lower resistance
than copper,
but oxidises easily so silver should be covered, PTFE is one of the
best coverings.

Silver does not oxidize so much as it tarnishes,

Tarnish IS oxide, you dope. Silver oxidizes, it just doesn't grow
a
crust like Copper does, regardless of whatever other elements it
grabs while doing it.

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide. The tarnishing process is
as follows..

8Ag + 4HS(-) --- 4Ag2S + 2H2 + 4e-

Oxygen in the form of a water film is required - silver will not
tarnish in dry air. This reaction mops up the electrons lost in the
oxidation process

O2 + 2H2O + 4e- --- 4OH(-)

Although the reaction is a classical redox process the end product is
not an oxide - it is assuredly silver sulphide.

Since I'm sure there will be a deal of shouting from people about how
this is ********, I would point out I have a degree and masters in the
field and spent a lot of time researching silver adsorption reactions
for silver oxide cells and lead acids - I do know what the deal is
here.

As fo silver oxide being conductive - the biggest problem in a silver
cell is the extra graphite needed to make it conduct - silver oxide is
a p-type semiconductor. Silver sulphide is more conductive than copper
oxide though by a long way and is usedful because then the silver coat
tarnishes it does not reduce the skin effect like the dielectric
coating of copper oxide will.

I own a couple of antenna that are silver plated for that reason !



by picking up sulfur
from the air.

You are thinking of Copper.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes wrote:

On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
t wrote:
Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:
Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN
Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor cost
of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever,
electro plated may which is normally used more in cases of
screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of the
wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?

Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts comparing
the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.

The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do NOT yield
favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common sense.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:04:11 +0100, Chris Street
wrote:

Since I'm sure there will be a deal of shouting from people about how
this is ********, I would point out I have a degree and masters in the
field and spent a lot of time researching silver adsorption reactions
for silver oxide cells and lead acids - I do know what the deal is here.

No. You are correct.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:11:55 +0100, Tyrorex
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:53:17 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

"Mr. Haney"


Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute ******** !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.

..... Phil



I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing. I'm
prepared to accept what he writes.

You're an idiot, then. DimBulb (latest sock puppet, "Mr Haney") went
out of his way to earn the name "AlwaysWrong".

Could you cut the noise down please. Thank you.

Well, there you have a point.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:11:55 +0100, Tyrorex
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:53:17 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

"Mr. Haney"


Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute ******** !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.

..... Phil



I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing. I'm
prepared to accept what he writes.

Could you cut the noise down please. Thank you.

If you will please just go away, the noise issue will resolve itself
;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.

You don't understand what "oxidation" means.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

William Sommerwerck wrote:
Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.

You don't understand what "oxidation" means.



I most assuredly do as I pointed out in the post above. The suplhide is
an oxidation product but it is most assuredly not an oxide as has been
claimed several times.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

Tyrorex wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:53:17 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

"Mr. Haney"


Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.



Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute ******** !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.

..... Phil




I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing. I'm
prepared to accept what he writes.

Could you cut the noise down please. Thank you.
Ou, bad move!

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes wrote:


On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
et wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN
Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor cost
of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever,
electro plated may which is normally used more in cases of
screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of the
wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?


Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts comparing
the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.


The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do NOT yield
favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common sense.
Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal time from
the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use that flux would ya?


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:57:12 -0400, Jamie
t wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes wrote:


On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter. net wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN
Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor cost
of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever,
electro plated may which is normally used more in cases of
screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of the
wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?


Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts comparing
the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.


The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do NOT yield
favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common sense.
Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal time from
the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use that flux would ya?



Solder comes with flux, you total idiot, and solder processes all use
flux as well.

That borders on being one of the most stupid posts you have ever made,
Jamie.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

"Tyrorex"

** Obvious sock puppet.


"Mr. Haney"

Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute ******** !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is
an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing.


** You need to see a shrink - ASAP.

Cos you are totally NUTS.

Look up " silver tarnish " on Google for ****'s sake.




...... Phil

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 07:18:37 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

:On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:36:55 -0400, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
:
:Sandi wrote:
: Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
: not.
:
: What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
: advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
: wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
: cleaning.
:
: Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
: tinned?
:
: Is cost really so different?
:
: Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
: the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:
: Is flexibility affected?
:
:I guess they assume you do not need to cut it to length. It probably
:solders easier or stay in a pinch connector better.
:
: Cinch type terminations is the proper term, Chocstraw retard.
:
: Also a soldered wire does NOT get retained better in such a connection.
:
: The solder "creeps" away and the connection becomes loose.
:
:http://www.materialseducation.org/do...15-Bunnell.pdf
:
:http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans....practical.pdf
:
:
: Go troll somewhere else Chocstraw.

Irrelevant!!!

These papers deals with using 60/40 tin-lead solid core flux solder and has
nothing to do with the tin plating on copper conductors in cables. Conductors
are plated using either the hot dip plating process or electroless deposition,
and the plating is usually only around 5 - 10 microns thick and it becomes
essentially part of the copper alloy itself. I have never heard of tin plating
on copper conductors "creeping" in any type of connector.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:59:55 GMT, Ross Herbert wrote:
Furthermore, if tin creep were a problem then every telephone exhange employing
tin plated copper cables in non-soldered connections should have failed in a
massive way long before now. AFAIK, even today the majority of telco's still
specify the use of tin plated solid conductor wire for internal exchange
cabling.


:Irrelevant!!!
:
:These papers deals with using 60/40 tin-lead solid core flux solder and has
:nothing to do with the tin plating on copper conductors in cables. Conductors
:are plated using either the hot dip plating process or electroless deposition,
:and the plating is usually only around 5 - 10 microns thick and it becomes
:essentially part of the copper alloy itself. I have never heard of tin plating
:on copper conductors "creeping" in any type of connector.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.

You don't understand what "oxidation" means.


All he understands is trolling for attention


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:59:55 GMT, Ross Herbert wrote:

The only problem which can occur with tin plating is the growth of "whiskers"
but this is relatively rare except in particular environmental conditions. Tin
plated conductors are never used in aerospace environments because of whisker
growth.


:
:Irrelevant!!!
:
:These papers deals with using 60/40 tin-lead solid core flux solder and has
:nothing to do with the tin plating on copper conductors in cables. Conductors
:are plated using either the hot dip plating process or electroless deposition,
:and the plating is usually only around 5 - 10 microns thick and it becomes
:essentially part of the copper alloy itself. I have never heard of tin plating
:on copper conductors "creeping" in any type of connector.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:54:38 GMT, Howard Eisenhauer
wrote:

:On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:14:40 +0100, Sandi wrote:
:
:Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
:not.
:
:What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
:advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
:wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
:cleaning.
:
:Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
:tinned?
:
:Is cost really so different?
:
:Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
:the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:
:Is flexibility affected?
:
:
:In the telecom industry the rule is "silver on silver". Back in the
:bad old days there could be problems with diss-simmilar metals
:corroding & creating noise on circuits both from rectification effects
:& from current punch-through across the junction when voltage was
:applied to the circuit, i.e. "going off-hook". In some cases
:"sealing" current was (& still is) applied on a constant basis to
:circuits that didn't require it for operation, just to keep junction
:corrosion from getting bothersome.
:
:Although not part of the original Bellcore standard I've actually
:speced tinned wire for T1 circuits going into areas I knew were going
:going to be climate controlled.
:
:H.


That is correct. A typical manufacturer of internal switchboard cable
application chart shows that their Switchboard 100 product (equivalent to what
most western countries would use for internal cabling) is suitable for T1 and
DS1 applications.
http://www.superioressex.com/uploade...lect_chart.pdf

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:53:46 -0700, Mr. Haney
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other military gear. I
do not expect a dope like you to have a clue, being that you are from a
place that gets all its military gear from its allies.

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the plating on
silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed, silver oxide, it's
silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

Quote

Silver metal does not react with sulfuric acid, which is used in
jewellery-making to clean and remove copper oxide firescale from silver
articles after silver soldering or annealing. However, silver reacts
readily with sulfur or hydrogen sulfide H2S to produce silver sulfide, a
dark-coloured compound familiar as the tarnish on silver coins and other
objects. Silver sulfide also forms silver whiskers when silver
electrical contacts are used in an atmosphere rich in hydrogen sulfide.

..
..
..

Silver oxide (Ag2O) produced when silver nitrate solutions are treated
with a base, is used as a positive electrode (cathode) in watch
(battery) batteries.

End quote

JF

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Apr 16, 11:14*pm, Sandi wrote:
Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal *
cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
tinned?

Is cost really so different? *

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

ALL I CAN THINK OF BESIDES THE FACT THAT WIRE ONLY INTENDED FOR
SOLDERING SHOULD BE TINNED IS THAT IT IS DEEP PROBE TIME AT THE TROLL
FARM

I AM PROTEUS

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:08:46 -0500, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:53:46 -0700, Mr. Haney
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other military gear. I
do not expect a dope like you to have a clue, being that you are from a
place that gets all its military gear from its allies.

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the plating on
silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed, silver oxide, it's
silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

No, oxide/sulfide is not what makes DimBulb a dope.

snip

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On 19 Apr 12:08, John Fields wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:53:46 -0700, Mr. Haney
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S )
- which is an insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS
floating around the internet and swallowed whole by
audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and
neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my
responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid
SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other
military gear. I do not expect a dope like you to have a clue,
being that you are from a place that gets all its military
gear from its allies.

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the
plating on silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed,
silver oxide, it's silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

Quote

Silver metal does not react with sulfuric acid, which is used
in jewellery-making to clean and remove copper oxide firescale
from silver articles after silver soldering or annealing.
However, silver reacts readily with sulfur or hydrogen sulfide
H2S to produce silver sulfide, a dark-coloured compound
familiar as the tarnish on silver coins and other objects.
Silver sulfide also forms silver whiskers when silver
electrical contacts are used in an atmosphere rich in hydrogen
sulfide.

.
.

Silver oxide (Ag2O) produced when silver nitrate solutions are
treated with a base, is used as a positive electrode (cathode)
in watch (battery) batteries.

End quote

JF


That showed him up. Hee hee! You owned him.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Apr 19, 12:20*pm, Carlo wrote:
On 18 Apr *15:18, Archimedes' Lever wrote:



On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:36:55 -0400, Van Chocstraw
wrote:

Sandi wrote:
Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a
lot is not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see
the advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which
means the wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with
only minimal *cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire
pre- tinned?

Is cost really so different? *

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have
been in the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

I guess they assume you do not need to cut it to length. It
probably solders easier or stay in a pinch connector better.

* Cinch type terminations is the proper term, Chocstraw
* retard.

* Also a soldered wire does NOT get retained better in such a
* connection.

* The solder "creeps" away and the connection becomes loose.

http://www.materialseducation.org/do...15-Bunnell.pdf

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans....practical.pdf

Those references to CHILDREN'S experiments!!!

Children are not qualified engineers.

Is this a sign of desperation?

ARCHIMEDES' IS A DESPERATE CHILD WITH CRIMINAL TENDENCIES
THE SAD MELANCHOLIC OFF SPRING OF A CROSS BETWEEN HUMAN AND FAIRY TALE
TROLL I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT HIS PARENTS WERE THINKINGAT THE TIME NOR DO
I THINK I WANT TO BUT THERE MUST BE A FILE A BOOK OR A FANTASY NOVEL
SOMEWHERE THAT EXPLAINS IT

I AM PROTEUS

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:20:44 +0100, Carlo wrote:


Those references to CHILDREN'S experiments!!!

Children are not qualified engineers.

Is this a sign of desperation?


You are so retarded that you do not even know what solder creep is,
much less how it relates to failure modes in cinched connection
terminations.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:21:05 +0100, Carlo wrote:

On 19 Apr 02:39, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:57:12 -0400, Jamie
t wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes
wrote:


On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charte r.net wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as
solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC
TIN Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor
cost of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all
of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how
ever, electro plated may which is normally used more in
cases of screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of
the wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?


Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside
teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts
comparing the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.


The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do
NOT yield favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common
sense.


Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal
time from the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use
that flux would ya?


Solder comes with flux, you total idiot, and solder processes
all use flux as well.

That borders on being one of the most stupid posts you have
ever made,
Jamie.


Not sure I understand why this exchange got so lively. You wrote
this:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder, especially
when it is inside teflon."

Assuming you wrote what you meant to write then you said "tin
plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder". You also added
that furthermore it was even harder still to solder tin plated
wire when it was inside Teflon insulation.

Aren't some posters responding to your clearly made statement
that

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

because it probably seems a bit unexpected to them? I have to
confess it does a bit unexpected to me too. It doesn't relate to
my experience or known facts.

The Teflon insulation you mention is an additional observation
which you offer as an extra fact but it's not particularly
relevant to the OP's question.

Seems to me this discussion is based around your statement:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"


If you've ever worked with both SPC and TPC, you would know that SPC
takes solder an order of magnitude better than TPC does.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:54:58 -0400, Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:10:29 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.

You don't understand what "oxidation" means.

Hmmm then Rust is actually Iron Sulfide?

I thought a high concentration of Sulfur had to be present for
sulfidation to occur.?????????????????????????????????


You all also seem to miss the 'ide' part of all this. It may not be
"Silver Oxide"itself, but even the 'tarnish' that is based on grabbing
sulfur molecules out of the air, is still an oxidation process.

Sulf-IDE

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:54:58 -0400, Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:10:29 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.
You don't understand what "oxidation" means.

Hmmm then Rust is actually Iron Sulfide?

I thought a high concentration of Sulfur had to be present for
sulfidation to occur.?????????????????????????????????


You all also seem to miss the 'ide' part of all this. It may not be
"Silver Oxide"itself, but even the 'tarnish' that is based on grabbing
sulfur molecules out of the air, is still an oxidation process.

Sulf-IDE

I hadn't missed that at all as I pointed out in the first post I made it
is a redox reaction. However oxidation products are not always oxides -
burn a jet of chlorine gas in a hydrogen atmopshere and chlorine is
reduced, hydrogen is oxidised, the oxidation product is hydrochloric
acid and no oxygen or oxide is to be found....

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

krw wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:08:46 -0500, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:53:46 -0700, Mr. Haney
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other military gear. I
do not expect a dope like you to have a clue, being that you are from a
place that gets all its military gear from its allies.

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the plating on
silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed, silver oxide, it's
silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

No, oxide/sulfide is not what makes DimBulb a dope.


Its the 40 + generations of inbreeding. His family tree is just a
rotting stump. :(


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:01:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Its the 40 + generations of inbreeding. His family tree is just a
rotting stump. :(


Sad that the history of Alzheimer's and senility that runs in your
family is also obviously taking your mind as well.

Well, maybe it's not so sad after all...

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:52:53 -0700, Mr. Haney
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:01:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Its the 40 + generations of inbreeding. His family tree is just a
rotting stump. :(


Sad that the history of Alzheimer's and senility that runs in your
family is also obviously taking your mind as well.

Well, maybe it's not so sad after all...


Soon enough, he'll catch up to Thompson.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

UpGrade wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:52:53 -0700, Mr. Haney
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:01:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Its the 40 + generations of inbreeding. His family tree is just a
rotting stump. :(

Sad that the history of Alzheimer's and senility that runs in your
family is also obviously taking your mind as well.

Well, maybe it's not so sad after all...


Soon enough, he'll catch up to Thompson.

UpGrade'ing Mr. Haney ought to be a cinch !

--
VWW

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

VWWall wrote:

UpGrade wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:52:53 -0700, Mr. Haney
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:01:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Its the 40 + generations of inbreeding. His family tree is just a
rotting stump. :(

Sad that the history of Alzheimer's and senility that runs in your
family is also obviously taking your mind as well.

Well, maybe it's not so sad after all...


Soon enough, he'll catch up to Thompson.

UpGrade'ing Mr. Haney ought to be a cinch !

--
VWW


Dimbulb is replying to himself again, in the hope no one will notice
what an idiot he is.

If you look at the headers for both they will have the same IP
address:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.197.142.200

He is filtered because he never posts anything useful. He always
uses low grade insults that are barely on a third grade level, on his
few good days.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

snip
Dimbulb is replying to himself again, in the hope no one will notice
what an idiot he is.

If you look at the headers for both they will have the same IP
address:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.197.142.200

snip

I have no knowledge of these particular posters or their ISPs but I caution
readers not to assume that identical NNTP-Posting-Host addresses automatically
mean the same user; some small ISPs assign RFC 1918 addresses to clients
and have a small block of public IPs exposed to the 'Net. Also, a public
access machine or a shared machine in a residence may conceivably be used
by different posters. Combining the weight of circumstantial evidence such as
posting IP address, user agent, bang path, etc. together with an analysis
of lexical style may result in a more cogent argument for a poster's identity.

Michael

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

msg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

snip
Dimbulb is replying to himself again, in the hope no one will notice
what an idiot he is.

If you look at the headers for both they will have the same IP
address:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.197.142.200

snip

I have no knowledge of these particular posters or their ISPs but I caution
readers not to assume that identical NNTP-Posting-Host addresses automatically
mean the same user; some small ISPs assign RFC 1918 addresses to clients
and have a small block of public IPs exposed to the 'Net. Also, a public
access machine or a shared machine in a residence may conceivably be used
by different posters. Combining the weight of circumstantial evidence such as
posting IP address, user agent, bang path, etc. together with an analysis
of lexical style may result in a more cogent argument for a poster's identity.

Michael

He is on Cox cable, which assigns a dynamic IP address to a cable
modem, The only way it changes is to disconnect the modem long enough
for it to be assigned to someone else. My dynamic IP address is on the
same fiber optic backbone and hasn't changed in three years, even after
days of the electric being out after a storm. All you have to do is
read the headers and writing style. He is a boring little troll, with
delusions of being human.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:26:44 -0500, msg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

snip
Dimbulb is replying to himself again, in the hope no one will notice
what an idiot he is.

If you look at the headers for both they will have the same IP
address:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.197.142.200

snip

I have no knowledge of these particular posters or their ISPs but I caution
readers not to assume that identical NNTP-Posting-Host addresses automatically
mean the same user; some small ISPs assign RFC 1918 addresses to clients
and have a small block of public IPs exposed to the 'Net. Also, a public
access machine or a shared machine in a residence may conceivably be used
by different posters. Combining the weight of circumstantial evidence such as
posting IP address, user agent, bang path, etc. together with an analysis
of lexical style may result in a more cogent argument for a poster's identity.

Michael


Yes and unless and until a crime has been committed, which it hasn't,
you can all **** off and die.

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?
 

On Apr 19, 11:05*am, Chris Street
wrote:
Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:54:58 -0400, Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:10:29 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.
You don't understand what "oxidation" means.

Hmmm then Rust is actually Iron Sulfide?

I thought a high concentration of Sulfur had to be present for
sulfidation to occur.?????????????????????????????????

You all also seem to miss the 'ide' part of all this. *It may not be
"Silver Oxide"itself, but even the 'tarnish' that is based on grabbing
sulfur molecules out of the air, is still an oxidation process.

* Sulf-IDE

I hadn't missed that at all as I pointed out in the first post I made it
is a redox reaction. However oxidation products are not always oxides -
burn a jet of chlorine gas in a hydrogen atmopshere and chlorine is
reduced, hydrogen is oxidised, the oxidation product is hydrochloric
acid and no oxygen or oxide is to be found....-

The post to which I now devoutly wish I had left alone had referred to
Silver Oxide., and that's what I was trying to correct.

If there's a verb to use to refer specifically to turning an element
into its oxide, to eliminate confusion with the generalized oxidation
process, please let me know what it is

What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?